I appreciate them trying to change it up a bit and match lore to mechanics, but if they want stealth to be strategic and not tactical, then it should be easy to find a stealther if you're close enough. If you're genuinely scouting, you should be a fair distance away from enemies. "Invisible" even. But once you get within 20 meters, it should be obvious you're there. That way there is no backstabbing insta-gibbing.
Stealthers should be thinking longer term than assassination. It should be a strategic position to provide information to their allies. In fact, since there wouldn't be a need for stealth-related tactical abilities (combat), it makes no sense to have a class dedicated to it.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by saurus123 again everything on paper that will never work in a mmo
agree.
We have already seen many beautiful ideas that have never been realized in the world of MMO
this sounding sales pitch...
People said the same thing when Aventurine claimed they could do a massive scale real time combat game with no instances or loading screens.
They proved everyone wrong.
The tech and design is out there to do amazing things. Everyone has just become so used to MMOs that don't push boundries. There is no real reason these ideas can't be pulled off.
Meh, crafter awesome, stealth class awesome x2. Now add awesome tank, healer and scout(archer) classes and im completely lost as to which class to play.
Cool idea. Lots of cool ideas. But..its all just ideas at this point.
When we get to the beta stage, when there has been development of the game and we can see if the promises and vision have actually panned out, then I'll take a serious look at CU. Until then, its words and hype, and I've had my fill of that in the last 5 years.
"Sounds like a nice bit of lore behind stealth in the game.. but it just sounds the same as any old stealth to me.. just with a bit of story behind it and probably some nice visual effects."
That's what I was going to post until I thought about it a little more. The idea of everyone in stealth being able to see each other in the veil is actually awesome. It could result in a seperate war going on in the veil whilst the real war is going on outside of it. I hope that's what this guy meant anyway...
It ain't gunna be easy to pull off....
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
MJ has stated that IT may start as soon as 6 weeks after game is funded. I hope people understand that they can seriously influence a game that is THIS early in game development, and hopefully in a good way, and i wanted to mention that MJ has already made plenty of changes after taking consideration player feedback. And to clarify this, out of the 2.000+ stupid suggestions players make 2 or 3 may actually be brilliant, one of MJ jobs is to track these and try to implement them to his gameworld. Or i better say OUR gameworld.
P.S ok i should stop now, because for my age acting like all these fanbois is kind of embarassing
It's a really interesting mechanic. I kind of hope that it a shadow war going on in the veil between veilstalkers/veilwalkers doesn't spill out too much into the regular world. I kind of like the idea that there is a shadow war going on that no everyone else is aware of.
500K buks to go and 4 days to get them in. It's doable for city state enterainment, but it needs that end of kickstarter burst. Apparently, David Braben got there by heading onto the internet social networking sites of all type. We will see in just a few days if we do get Camelot unhcained,
It sounds like this guy was asked "what will stealth be like in your game?" and he's answered with... "Oh stealth in our game will be the same generic stealth mechanics you've seen a million times before.... The only difference is we'll have a lore reason for explaining that tired mechanic"
I agree with what a guy said above. I am sick to death of "Lol-invisible-in-plain-sight" stealth.
My ideal MMO would be one that is built around an engine like Thief's dark engine. Where stealth is to do with actual SHADOWS.... And a trained stealth character can only become invisible while inside SHADOWS!
"It's like a finger pointing away to the moon... Don't concentrate on the finger or you'll miss all the heavenly glory" (Bruce Lee)
(Insert your favourite mmo here): ......And behold, a pale horse.... And a million hellishly bad mmos followed with it.
It sounds like this guy was asked "what will stealth be like in your game?" and he's answered with... "Oh stealth in our game will be the same generic stealth mechanics you've seen a million times before.... The only difference is we'll have a lore reason for explaining that tired mechanic"
I agree with what a guy said above. I am sick to death of "Lol-invisible-in-plain-sight" stealth.
My ideal MMO would be one that is built around an engine like Thief's dark engine. Where stealth is to do with actual SHADOWS.... And a trained stealth character can only become invisible while inside SHADOWS!
It sounds like you didn't understand a word he was saying. This idea is further removed from the usual "stealther jumps clothy" as you can get.
I can actually visualise what is meant here... and how it might work in game.
TBH it sounds pretty good.
In fact it has the potential to be great - but it also has the potential to be a game killer.
Because to make this work - and not simply be a case of "Veilwalkers simply by-passing everything for insta-win again" there needs to be a balanced ratio of Veilstalkers.
And if there are too many Veilstalkers... then it will rapidly become "not fun" to be a Veilwalker.
And as well as that the ratio of "veil players" to other players needs to be managed because the whole "veil game" has the potential to simply become the only game - leaving everyone else out of the loop. Also "not fun".
So, with all that in mind i have to ask the question as to whether I believe Mark Jacobs is up to the challenge of making it work as intended? And honestly, IMHO, no he isn't.
It is a good idea - hopefully he allows another company to use it at a later date. It could actually work very well in a single player game - where character class ratios could be strictly controlled.
I can actually visualise what is meant here... and how it might work in game.
TBH it sounds pretty good.
In fact it has the potential to be great - but it also has the potential to be a game killer.
Because to make this work - and not simply be a case of "Veilwalkers simply by-passing everything for insta-win again" there needs to be a balanced ratio of Veilstalkers.
And if there are too many Veilstalkers... then it will rapidly become "not fun" to be a Veilwalker.
And as well as that the ratio of "veil players" to other players needs to be managed because the whole "veil game" has the potential to simply become the only game - leaving everyone else out of the loop. Also "not fun".
So, with all that in mind i have to ask the question as to whether I believe Mark Jacobs is up to the challenge of making it work as intended? And honestly, IMHO, no he isn't.
It is a good idea - hopefully he allows another company to use it at a later date. It could actually work very well in a single player game - where character class ratios could be strictly controlled.
He is not alone in this, backers will have a say, especially since this is a "optional" mechanic. If we feel it won't work out, we'll tell him so and i fully expect he will listen and adapt the mechanic. Also the way i understood it Veilstalkers will have some terrain based abilities, for example protect a keep door from being pass throughable for Veilwalkers(maybe as part of the crafting/enchantment process?), doesn't matter if its 1 or 10 walkers trying to pass, protected is protected.
Contrary to what people think the man doesn't have a god complex, maybe the "failure" of Warhammer actually helps in this regard.
The only problem with this article is that te Veilwalker/stalker system isn't set in stone. Mark introduced it to us (the backers of CU) as a possible way to handle stealth. It's still not decided.
never thought of Stealth as a good mechanic, a good game will not have stealth.. the problem with stealth in current games is the victim has no involvement in the process. You simply find your self down 1/2 health and under attack, and no amount of real-skill can really stop this. In a game like Team fortress, people say to defend against spies by spy-checking, but what they are really doing is spamming. the dreaded pyro spam. While TF2's mechanic for the spy is actually not that bad, it kind of falls apart with the instant death back stab. there is no real skill that can counter this other than maybe keeping your back to the wall at all times. ( hardly a skill , but you know what i mean )
but since i am not going to win this battle, here is how I think it should be handled. ( in an MMO ) Basically, I think stealth classes should actually have to act like a stealther would in real life, you should have to hide in the actual shadows, darkness, and behind objects. You should not be able to stealth in areas where in real life you could not do it, as in, you cant stealth in a open field.
so how would I implement it in a video game, since that what makes making stealth class hard to deal with in games.
1) I said i would only allow players to enter stealth when in a shadow, and I mean literally in a game rendered shadow, these could be little shadows from local trees, to big shadows created by large forests with trees overhanging, or large mountains, or buildings. You would have a small cool down time where you could leave the shadow and launch an attack on passing player. maybe 3-5 seconds. I would possibly allow players to enter even without a shadow or darkness, but it would be still limited by the 3-5 rule
2) Some areas are just plain dark, dungeons, nigh time, these would in effect make large ares and zones that are full stealth, to limit abuse here, there would be the traditional global timer of maybe 30 seconds of stealth before you must drop invisible and recharge.
so if you combine 1 & 2, you essentially get two limits. your stealth time is limited by the first of to conditions, 3-5 seconds of time out of shade, or 30 seconds total. don't worry about the exact numbers, these can be tuned later.
3) the best suggestion i think I got. people have always asked, how do I simulate the ambushing that the stealth classes really do in real life. My suggestion here is, long before the player uses stealth to close the gap on a enemy, the stealther should have to use and ability that simulates him being able to hide behind something, but yet see his enemy coming. i thought, how could you simulate a player hiding behind an object, waiting for the victim to pass undetected. Why not give the stealther an skill that allows limited ability to see though objects when the skill is active. maybe wire frame vision of other players within a certain radius when activated. ... this would simulated the steather hiding behind a tree, but just ever so slightly poking his head around to see where is victim is, the stealth can then maneuver around the tree as the player approaches and get in behind without the victim knowing....
4) NO instant kills, does this really need explaining, its no fun at all.
if you combine all 3/4 points in the way I am in-vision, what i hope for is this....
1) stealther see a victim long range, hopes that victim has not seen him ( maybe stealthers could have longer range vision )
2) stealther asses areas where he can hide, also considers shadows bonuses
3) moves into position, activates his "see though ability" ( also has a cool down so he can not use all the time
4) player gets close, stealther still with his see though ability makes final maneuvers to to get in behind, he has to be careful though, while see-though is nice, if he does not maneuver well, the other player night see you standing behind that small object. moving while keeping out of the line of site could be difficult behind a tree.
5) stealther activates stealth mode, stealth is essentially the skill to use to close the final few feet on the victim
6) launches back attack
----
why i think this is a better way to do this. The reason is simple...
a) it simulates real hiding and promotes spacial awareness. Your environment now has to be considered when launching an attack. its no longer just a button, or just a quick button mash you do to get behind someone. now its actually involves the terrain.
b) it gives the victim small feedback as to what areas could be dangerous. instead of just getting frustrated about be 1 shotted anywhere outside the safe area. now you know you are pretty safe in a field, but you start to feel nervous when walking in wooded areas. you experience the real feelings of fear when you walk in dangerous areas. In the end, you really experience the feeling of the victim, the victim is almost playing the class along with the stealther .
c) of course, all the good loot is going to be in areas where stealth happens more often. Did you expect anything but ! hahahahah.
Well, now the game is going to develop I'll say how I think CSE will do this:
I think the closest thing currently in MMOs is the teleport ability in Champions Online (imbedded video)
In games in general the effects in FEAR 2 & 3 maybe?
For Veil Walkers: When they go into the veil there has been a brief mention of some kind of "portal" in The Depths.
So I am guessing they will not simply be able to 'go stealth' at the click of a button. I would pick that they need some kind of 'portal' - over time I am guessing (as they develop the skill) they can use more portals. So initially they might need the portal in The Depths... later on they might be able to use a dark room... and later still any available shadow.
When in the Veil they will have a blur on their screen - a bit like the effect when you are drunk in LotRO with the edges of the screen heavily blurred and stretched limiting your vision. IOW your view will be very directional so unless you look at something close and right in front of you - you may not see it.
This limits the use of use of Veil Walkers as scouts. I am guessing they will see apparitions attacking them as ghostly figures and whisps.
Veil Stalkers on the other hand will probably see either a floating 'cloud' or 'spark' or maybe see part of the screen warp as if everything is being pulled toward a point. They will be able to follow this point (The Veilwalker) around and direct 'magic' toward it.
The trick will be to see it. I am guessing that if the Veilwalker stands still they become less visible in the 'real world' but the trade off is that the Veil's natural defences will begin to close in...
People crying about stealth.. If you played Daoc you know how long it took a stealther to set up a kill?
Being a non-stealther you get to join a group and be protected by healers and Tanks with guard.As being a stealther picking targets and finding the window of opportunity is small and comes with experience.
I guarantee you Daoc players who hated stealths got way more Realm points in one night of PVP than any stealther. They are potent out of stealth openers and then rely heavy on poisions. If they miss the opener Good Game your finished.
DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then WoW - Online since launch - and now back again. EVE - Online since 07 - and still on, and on, and on.. WHO - Online 08-10 LOTR-O - Online 06-08 Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.
Jacobs and his over powered stealth. I really disliked stealthers in DAoC and these stealthers seem even more powerful. Like to know how he is going to prevent packs of them from owning the game. I was hoping that stealth would be kept to the shadows, but it obviously is not going to be. Big negative if you ask me.
Don't know what game the above person was playing, but it was not DAoC. A DAoC stealther did not have to setup anything. Seen them wipe out small groups many times. With the right skills they were extremely deadly.
Originally posted by Ozmodan Jacobs and his over powered stealth. I really disliked stealthers in DAoC and these stealthers seem even more powerful. Like to know how he is going to prevent packs of them from owning the game. I was hoping that stealth would be kept to the shadows, but it obviously is not going to be. Big negative if you ask me.
Originally posted by Ozmodan Jacobs and his over powered stealth. I really disliked stealthers in DAoC and these stealthers seem even more powerful. Like to know how he is going to prevent packs of them from owning the game. I was hoping that stealth would be kept to the shadows, but it obviously is not going to be. Big negative if you ask me.
You didn't even read the concept did you?
Pretty vague if you ask me, my experience is, that people who play stealth characters will develop ways to pretty much eliminate any disadvantages put in place.
Originally posted by Ozmodan Jacobs and his over powered stealth. I really disliked stealthers in DAoC and these stealthers seem even more powerful. Like to know how he is going to prevent packs of them from owning the game. I was hoping that stealth would be kept to the shadows, but it obviously is not going to be. Big negative if you ask me.
You didn't even read the concept did you?
Pretty vague if you ask me, my experience is, that people who play stealth characters will develop ways to pretty much eliminate any disadvantages put in place.
The concept is evolving and not even set in stone. That is the first caveat.
The entire purpose of his "BSC" idea is to preserve the stealth mechanic while preventing the usual exploits from conventional stealth mechanics. He clearly stated that the class isn't a front load damage class and when stealthers get near each other they suffer penalties or weaken to prevent packs of them. Seems pretty clear to me what he is attempting.
What confuses me is your complaint about it not addressing the typical problems with stealth ... even though it's entire purpose is to solve these issues. Also you both put down stealth as a concept and then proceed to say you prefer the classic concept.
Actually I have no idea what you are trying say. It's similar to MJ's Archer concept. He decided to go ahead to put them in game while acknowledging all the issues Archers typically bring to an mmo. He wants to build the better Archer just like he is trying to build the better stealther while still preserving their existence in the mmo. So, again, it is extremely odd to complain about all the conventional issues with the classes when the very reason these subjects were brought up in CU was to solve those issues in their implementation.
Comments
Stealthers should be thinking longer term than assassination. It should be a strategic position to provide information to their allies. In fact, since there wouldn't be a need for stealth-related tactical abilities (combat), it makes no sense to have a class dedicated to it.
Or get changed later. OMG, I need a powerful alpha attack opener!!!!
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
People said the same thing when Aventurine claimed they could do a massive scale real time combat game with no instances or loading screens.
They proved everyone wrong.
The tech and design is out there to do amazing things. Everyone has just become so used to MMOs that don't push boundries. There is no real reason these ideas can't be pulled off.
Cool idea. Lots of cool ideas. But..its all just ideas at this point.
When we get to the beta stage, when there has been development of the game and we can see if the promises and vision have actually panned out, then I'll take a serious look at CU. Until then, its words and hype, and I've had my fill of that in the last 5 years.
"Sounds like a nice bit of lore behind stealth in the game.. but it just sounds the same as any old stealth to me.. just with a bit of story behind it and probably some nice visual effects."
That's what I was going to post until I thought about it a little more. The idea of everyone in stealth being able to see each other in the veil is actually awesome. It could result in a seperate war going on in the veil whilst the real war is going on outside of it. I hope that's what this guy meant anyway...
It ain't gunna be easy to pull off....
MJ has stated that IT may start as soon as 6 weeks after game is funded. I hope people understand that they can seriously influence a game that is THIS early in game development, and hopefully in a good way, and i wanted to mention that MJ has already made plenty of changes after taking consideration player feedback. And to clarify this, out of the 2.000+ stupid suggestions players make 2 or 3 may actually be brilliant, one of MJ jobs is to track these and try to implement them to his gameworld. Or i better say OUR gameworld.
P.S ok i should stop now, because for my age acting like all these fanbois is kind of embarassing
The tip for
The win is
cooperation.
It sounds like this guy was asked "what will stealth be like in your game?" and he's answered with... "Oh stealth in our game will be the same generic stealth mechanics you've seen a million times before.... The only difference is we'll have a lore reason for explaining that tired mechanic"
I agree with what a guy said above. I am sick to death of "Lol-invisible-in-plain-sight" stealth.
My ideal MMO would be one that is built around an engine like Thief's dark engine. Where stealth is to do with actual SHADOWS.... And a trained stealth character can only become invisible while inside SHADOWS!
"It's like a finger pointing away to the moon... Don't concentrate on the finger or you'll miss all the heavenly glory" (Bruce Lee)
(Insert your favourite mmo here): ......And behold, a pale horse.... And a million hellishly bad mmos followed with it.
It sounds like you didn't understand a word he was saying. This idea is further removed from the usual "stealther jumps clothy" as you can get.
I read this update with interest.
I can actually visualise what is meant here... and how it might work in game.
TBH it sounds pretty good.
In fact it has the potential to be great - but it also has the potential to be a game killer.
Because to make this work - and not simply be a case of "Veilwalkers simply by-passing everything for insta-win again" there needs to be a balanced ratio of Veilstalkers.
And if there are too many Veilstalkers... then it will rapidly become "not fun" to be a Veilwalker.
And as well as that the ratio of "veil players" to other players needs to be managed because the whole "veil game" has the potential to simply become the only game - leaving everyone else out of the loop. Also "not fun".
So, with all that in mind i have to ask the question as to whether I believe Mark Jacobs is up to the challenge of making it work as intended? And honestly, IMHO, no he isn't.
It is a good idea - hopefully he allows another company to use it at a later date. It could actually work very well in a single player game - where character class ratios could be strictly controlled.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
He is not alone in this, backers will have a say, especially since this is a "optional" mechanic. If we feel it won't work out, we'll tell him so and i fully expect he will listen and adapt the mechanic. Also the way i understood it Veilstalkers will have some terrain based abilities, for example protect a keep door from being pass throughable for Veilwalkers(maybe as part of the crafting/enchantment process?), doesn't matter if its 1 or 10 walkers trying to pass, protected is protected.
Contrary to what people think the man doesn't have a god complex, maybe the "failure" of Warhammer actually helps in this regard.
never thought of Stealth as a good mechanic, a good game will not have stealth.. the problem with stealth in current games is the victim has no involvement in the process. You simply find your self down 1/2 health and under attack, and no amount of real-skill can really stop this. In a game like Team fortress, people say to defend against spies by spy-checking, but what they are really doing is spamming. the dreaded pyro spam. While TF2's mechanic for the spy is actually not that bad, it kind of falls apart with the instant death back stab. there is no real skill that can counter this other than maybe keeping your back to the wall at all times. ( hardly a skill , but you know what i mean )
but since i am not going to win this battle, here is how I think it should be handled. ( in an MMO ) Basically, I think stealth classes should actually have to act like a stealther would in real life, you should have to hide in the actual shadows, darkness, and behind objects. You should not be able to stealth in areas where in real life you could not do it, as in, you cant stealth in a open field.
so how would I implement it in a video game, since that what makes making stealth class hard to deal with in games.
1) I said i would only allow players to enter stealth when in a shadow, and I mean literally in a game rendered shadow, these could be little shadows from local trees, to big shadows created by large forests with trees overhanging, or large mountains, or buildings. You would have a small cool down time where you could leave the shadow and launch an attack on passing player. maybe 3-5 seconds. I would possibly allow players to enter even without a shadow or darkness, but it would be still limited by the 3-5 rule
2) Some areas are just plain dark, dungeons, nigh time, these would in effect make large ares and zones that are full stealth, to limit abuse here, there would be the traditional global timer of maybe 30 seconds of stealth before you must drop invisible and recharge.
so if you combine 1 & 2, you essentially get two limits. your stealth time is limited by the first of to conditions, 3-5 seconds of time out of shade, or 30 seconds total. don't worry about the exact numbers, these can be tuned later.
3) the best suggestion i think I got. people have always asked, how do I simulate the ambushing that the stealth classes really do in real life. My suggestion here is, long before the player uses stealth to close the gap on a enemy, the stealther should have to use and ability that simulates him being able to hide behind something, but yet see his enemy coming. i thought, how could you simulate a player hiding behind an object, waiting for the victim to pass undetected. Why not give the stealther an skill that allows limited ability to see though objects when the skill is active. maybe wire frame vision of other players within a certain radius when activated. ... this would simulated the steather hiding behind a tree, but just ever so slightly poking his head around to see where is victim is, the stealth can then maneuver around the tree as the player approaches and get in behind without the victim knowing....
4) NO instant kills, does this really need explaining, its no fun at all.
if you combine all 3/4 points in the way I am in-vision, what i hope for is this....
1) stealther see a victim long range, hopes that victim has not seen him ( maybe stealthers could have longer range vision )
2) stealther asses areas where he can hide, also considers shadows bonuses
3) moves into position, activates his "see though ability" ( also has a cool down so he can not use all the time
4) player gets close, stealther still with his see though ability makes final maneuvers to to get in behind, he has to be careful though, while see-though is nice, if he does not maneuver well, the other player night see you standing behind that small object. moving while keeping out of the line of site could be difficult behind a tree.
5) stealther activates stealth mode, stealth is essentially the skill to use to close the final few feet on the victim
6) launches back attack
----
why i think this is a better way to do this. The reason is simple...
a) it simulates real hiding and promotes spacial awareness. Your environment now has to be considered when launching an attack. its no longer just a button, or just a quick button mash you do to get behind someone. now its actually involves the terrain.
b) it gives the victim small feedback as to what areas could be dangerous. instead of just getting frustrated about be 1 shotted anywhere outside the safe area. now you know you are pretty safe in a field, but you start to feel nervous when walking in wooded areas. you experience the real feelings of fear when you walk in dangerous areas. In the end, you really experience the feeling of the victim, the victim is almost playing the class along with the stealther .
c) of course, all the good loot is going to be in areas where stealth happens more often. Did you expect anything but ! hahahahah.
comments welcome, bring on the RAGE!
Well, now the game is going to develop I'll say how I think CSE will do this:
I think the closest thing currently in MMOs is the teleport ability in Champions Online (imbedded video)
In games in general the effects in FEAR 2 & 3 maybe?
For Veil Walkers: When they go into the veil there has been a brief mention of some kind of "portal" in The Depths.
So I am guessing they will not simply be able to 'go stealth' at the click of a button. I would pick that they need some kind of 'portal' - over time I am guessing (as they develop the skill) they can use more portals. So initially they might need the portal in The Depths... later on they might be able to use a dark room... and later still any available shadow.
When in the Veil they will have a blur on their screen - a bit like the effect when you are drunk in LotRO with the edges of the screen heavily blurred and stretched limiting your vision. IOW your view will be very directional so unless you look at something close and right in front of you - you may not see it.
This limits the use of use of Veil Walkers as scouts. I am guessing they will see apparitions attacking them as ghostly figures and whisps.
Veil Stalkers on the other hand will probably see either a floating 'cloud' or 'spark' or maybe see part of the screen warp as if everything is being pulled toward a point. They will be able to follow this point (The Veilwalker) around and direct 'magic' toward it.
something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKwgwIopoAE maybe?
The trick will be to see it. I am guessing that if the Veilwalker stands still they become less visible in the 'real world' but the trade off is that the Veil's natural defences will begin to close in...
Thats my guess for now.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
People crying about stealth.. If you played Daoc you know how long it took a stealther to set up a kill?
Being a non-stealther you get to join a group and be protected by healers and Tanks with guard.As being a stealther picking targets and finding the window of opportunity is small and comes with experience.
I guarantee you Daoc players who hated stealths got way more Realm points in one night of PVP than any stealther. They are potent out of stealth openers and then rely heavy on poisions. If they miss the opener Good Game your finished.
So before you knock a stealth play one please.
Long answer became its own short story / lore based on VeilWalkers and cloak mechanics.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/926/view/forums/post/5752854/thread/386094#5752854
DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then
WoW - Online since launch - and now back again.
EVE - Online since 07 - and still on, and on, and on..
WHO - Online 08-10
LOTR-O - Online 06-08
Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.
Jacobs and his over powered stealth. I really disliked stealthers in DAoC and these stealthers seem even more powerful. Like to know how he is going to prevent packs of them from owning the game. I was hoping that stealth would be kept to the shadows, but it obviously is not going to be. Big negative if you ask me.
Don't know what game the above person was playing, but it was not DAoC. A DAoC stealther did not have to setup anything. Seen them wipe out small groups many times. With the right skills they were extremely deadly.
You didn't even read the concept did you?
You stay sassy!
Pretty vague if you ask me, my experience is, that people who play stealth characters will develop ways to pretty much eliminate any disadvantages put in place.
The concept is evolving and not even set in stone. That is the first caveat.
The entire purpose of his "BSC" idea is to preserve the stealth mechanic while preventing the usual exploits from conventional stealth mechanics. He clearly stated that the class isn't a front load damage class and when stealthers get near each other they suffer penalties or weaken to prevent packs of them. Seems pretty clear to me what he is attempting.
What confuses me is your complaint about it not addressing the typical problems with stealth ... even though it's entire purpose is to solve these issues. Also you both put down stealth as a concept and then proceed to say you prefer the classic concept.
Actually I have no idea what you are trying say. It's similar to MJ's Archer concept. He decided to go ahead to put them in game while acknowledging all the issues Archers typically bring to an mmo. He wants to build the better Archer just like he is trying to build the better stealther while still preserving their existence in the mmo. So, again, it is extremely odd to complain about all the conventional issues with the classes when the very reason these subjects were brought up in CU was to solve those issues in their implementation.
You stay sassy!