While i agree with alot of the comments here,i have to come and say something about the game.Has it been too long in the beta form? you bet! Has it been wasteful towards resources and Time spent? Indeed.There is no content to keep you interested? True!
But does it mean the Dev doesnt care at all? no.As a matter of fact the reason they keep changing was because their motto is apparently something alone the lines of " listening to community feedbak" which is why they know that the old systems wont work and they changed it a couple more times.They are not trying to make the same old game that people play for a week and forget,theyre trying to make game that have decent followers and Solid gameplay.Are these things in the game right now? not yet.Now that the core systems are in place,they will focus everything they have to push out contents,AI,performances,UI,Balances and PvP.Will there be enough time for them to do this? im skeptic myself but if you go to their forum,you'll know that they are working hard and accepting people's opinion about the game.
And the last that im sure will get flamed on.I know people's perception of Closed and Open beta has changes in the past few years.The Dev here is kinda old school though.When they meant closed beta they meant "every shit is broken and you are our true testers!" not "we have tested this alot and now you help find the missing ones" So when people are defending the game because its in beta.Its because its in the fucking beta! Heck their open beta is pretty much the same other than more people will come in and test the server as well other than finding all the bugs.
Well read some more of the comments about MMORPG.com. Having been a member here for many years I find the opinions of people from other sites about this site a sad statement on how people view MMORPG.coms forums and it's members. Nothing to be proud of or make light of I think.
Its ironic how the CEO makes a statement of that magnititude while rounding up the acolytes to "counter" opinions but if it wasn't for MMORPG and the soft reviews I found here, I wouldn't even have remembered Firefall existed and checked it out. "MMORPG hates everything". A good game is a good game. If people like it they will play it.
How about Red5 team focus on making decisions make the game and release it and deal with the reactions good or bad? The sitting on the fence and mutual hand jobbing between devs and their band of merry men is a waste of time and talented resources.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Its ironic how the CEO makes a statement of that magnititude while rounding up the acolytes to "counter" opinions but if it wasn't for MMORPG and the soft reviews I found here, I wouldn't even have remembered Firefall existed and checked it out. "MMORPG hates everything". A good game is a good game. If people like it they will play it.
How about Red5 team focus on making decisions make the game and release it and deal with the reactions good or bad? The sitting on the fence and mutual hand jobbing between devs and their band of merry men is a waste of time and talented resources.
I find it more ironic that you just made you account today to just post alot of vitriolic statements about other games.
You say a good game is a good game and yet you don't list what you consider a "good game" as a example. I play a crapton of games and looking forward to a few more that are coming out this year and I have my opinions on what I consider good and what I think is just crap.
im not going to try and counter the points made here i want to simply state a few facts about this game and its development process that not many people outside of the long time beta tester are aware of, the main one being " THIS IS NOT A COMMERCIAL BETA"
i was lucky enough to join the firefall beta early 2012 after winning a key off the ceo on twitter, at that time there was no open world, there was no crafting there where 3 pvp maps and the servers opened for a few hours onece a week, to open up beta to outsiders at this stage is considered madness to many video games developers, but red5 chose to do it stating they want the players to help mold the game, and from what i have seen that is exactly what they have done, in the year since then they have overhauled the progression 3x, first regular lvls which the players said disincentivized people from playing the game because as u progressed to higher lvl's it slowed down far to much killing the fun, something typically seen in standard mmorpg's after this they overhauled to the "tech tree" system a system that allowed players to use exp to upgrade a path on there chosen tree to get more equipment and eventually unlock the next 1 or 2 battleframes in the class, players said that limited customizeation and made the progression exstremely horizontal, by this point crafting was in the game and pvp was taking a hit because it wasnt so much about skill as it was about who spent the most time building the best equipment for pvp,
so as of about 1 month ago firefall has been ovehauled again to where you can think of your battleframes being of a "moba" style all being diferent and haveing there role with costomizeation options in pve, where as the pvp has been split so that each battleframe has a set loadout and everyone is even, there are currently 15 frames to chose from R5 are exspected to double that in due time,
what im saying is all this was done on player feedback and the players where able to give that feedback by being allowed in to the game and desighn progress long before a standard beta (gw2 or mass effect3 for example) and long before they game was anywhere near what could be considered a complete stage,
i imagine someof you will have tried this game a while back before these changes and decided to instantly wash your hands of it, lots has changed especially the pvp,(see link)
skip till 1hour in
in anycase fanboy rant over, not that anyone read this far down >.<
Its ironic how the CEO makes a statement of that magnititude while rounding up the acolytes to "counter" opinions but if it wasn't for MMORPG and the soft reviews I found here, I wouldn't even have remembered Firefall existed and checked it out. "MMORPG hates everything". A good game is a good game. If people like it they will play it.
How about Red5 team focus on making decisions make the game and release it and deal with the reactions good or bad? The sitting on the fence and mutual hand jobbing between devs and their band of merry men is a waste of time and talented resources.
I find it more ironic that you just made you account today to just post alot of vitriolic statements about other games.
You say a good game is a good game and yet you don't list what you consider a "good game" as a example. I play a crapton of games and looking forward to a few more that are coming out this year and I have my opinions on what I consider good and what I think is just crap.
Ones opinion is just that , an opinion.
I didn't make an account today. I didn't make any vitrolic statement about the game. I posted the silly thing the CEO did as I was actually checking out the game again. THAT'S ironic. What's worse is you guys are still making accounts to try to change peoples opinions when you've been spotted. You're a follower who is doing the bidding of an irresponsible indecisive CEO right now. How can anybody view that as objective?
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
You realize it's still in beta? Half of these comments think it's a full released game and are treating it as such. Give it time to fully develop, and then do your reviews. Better yet, come to the forums and give your suggestions as to how you can shape this game.
Haters will hate. No reason for it, they just need a target. Firefall is not "in trouble" and appears to be on schedule. I think the fact that Open Beta has been announced has a lot of other gamers scared that their favorite games will start to fail. There are many great games out there today, and Firefall is destined to take its rightful place amongst them. Firefall is a fast paced, action oriented shooter. If you play it expecting something else you may not enjoy it. Give it a chance, it truely is a great game with even greater potential.With legend Mark Kern at the helm, how could it be anything less?
Its ironic how the CEO makes a statement of that magnititude while rounding up the acolytes to "counter" opinions but if it wasn't for MMORPG and the soft reviews I found here, I wouldn't even have remembered Firefall existed and checked it out. "MMORPG hates everything". A good game is a good game. If people like it they will play it.
How about Red5 team focus on making decisions make the game and release it and deal with the reactions good or bad? The sitting on the fence and mutual hand jobbing between devs and their band of merry men is a waste of time and talented resources.
I find it more ironic that you just made you account today to just post alot of vitriolic statements about other games.
You say a good game is a good game and yet you don't list what you consider a "good game" as a example. I play a crapton of games and looking forward to a few more that are coming out this year and I have my opinions on what I consider good and what I think is just crap.
Ones opinion is just that , an opinion.
I didn't make an account today. I didn't make any vitrolic statement about the game. I posted the silly thing the CEO did as I was actually checking out the game again. THAT'S ironic. What's worse is you guys are still making accounts to try to change peoples opinions when you've been spotted. You're a follower who is doing the bidding of an irresponsible indecisive CEO right now. How can anybody view that as objective?
I had a point but ...meh.
People are going to like what they like...get over it.
Another fanboy here, I guess, and ready to take the bullets... Fire at will.
Been there since December. Yes I get bored sometimes. Yes I have already made some pauses to play other games... Problem is other games seem "boring" now... So keep coming back, and all in all I've mostly played Firefall since then... I help as I can, criticizing when I feel right, congratulating when I feel it's just...
So if you haven't tryed it, give it a shot... Remember its work in progress... Give constructive feedback... Make up your own mind, it's not like its gonna cost you anything (except some time).
Don't follow the regular and easy path of badmouthing everything you do not like, just for the sake of it (beware of the dark force! )... That's what I find irresponsible...
To bad that happens everywhere, and not just on gaming industry...
I played a bit the beta, I can't but agree with all the comments here.
Too few content, too many regular overhauls, and a general feeling that the devs don't have a clear goal they want to achieve with the game. It's true that the dev listen to community feedback and they are doing probably the best community driven development out there.
I don't know if it will fail or not. As the game is currently, it's not my cup of tea.
In the end it may thrive on a small or dedicated community, but personally I don't know which are the dev goals. Global Agenda hasn't a vast community, but it's still around after how many years? 5? It even changed business model...
Who knows what will happen to FireFall?
All that I know is that I was excited when I got the beta key, but now I'm not anymore.
As you can tell, I've been around here for awhile. I've seen games come, I've seen games go. I've been in the Firefall closed beta for more than a year now. In that time the game has changed enormously. There is much more content now, many of the major problems have been dealt with, and the game has evolved to an enjoyable state.
Part of the problem that many people have missed, is that this is a REAL beta test. Its very much a work in progress. Its not the usual beta test, that all too many companies use to hype their game. That being the case, its neither content nor feature complete yet. Anyone coming into it, without that understanding, is bound to be disappointed.
The next six months to a year will tell the tale. If Grummz and the rest of Red5 can add in the features they have spoken of, and polish the game, it has the potential to gain a stable, loyal player base. But with The9 having serious problems, I'd say the clock is ticking.
My problem has always been, the game seems to be changing alot, but not neccisarily improving content wise (granted game perfomance has come a LONG way from the constant "connection interupted" days). They are still at the laying the foundation stage of things, after having ripped up the foundation and laid a new one, twice over. At some point the rest of the house has to be built, or you just wont have enough resources to finish.
Sure, we've changed the game significantly at its foundation several times. But each time was necessary. There is not successful blueprint of how to make a PvE MMOFPS. There was nothing to copy, nothing to emulate. When I worked on WoW, we had Everquest to emulate.
We tried levels, tiers and now resource based progression. Levels was copied from MMOs, but it didn't feel right for a shooter and people were voting by quitting early and not playing as much. When we switched to tiers, retention shot way up, but it still had fundamental broken issues that were highlighted by the community. When we switched to resource based progression, and the new crafting system, we had an interesting result. The bad part was that it alienated half our users as much as it entertained the other half. The good news was that metrics were up everywhere...people are playing for longer and are more engaged than ever before. Now we have to work on the alienation of a good chunk of our users due to an incomplete crafting UI and testling limits on progresssion being made too difficult.
But we don't make these chnages on a whim. Had we shipped with the original leveling system, the game would have been a disaster. Thankfullly, since we develop features with our community, we discovered the problem early on. We share features early, before the last 10% where 90% of the work is, so that we *can* make these changes without throwing away a ton of work, or become so invested in a system that we refuse to change it.
Our process has been a new one for all of us, devs and community. But we can measure its success and improvements each step, while avoiding some bad systems that got put to rest early...all thanks to community driven development.
grummz, you can copy individual aspects of each game you want your game to have.
The most important aspects are world, how your character is controlled, feels and interacts with it and the progression reward system to keep people logging on and playing.
It just seems like there are so many MMOs coming out this year that some of these are bound to get lost in the shuffle...I get the feeling that Firefall will be on of these.
I wish I would have known this sooner. I just dropped $100 on Fire fall a few weeks ago. I've been having a lot of fun with it and was looking forward to seeing further development in the campaign story and more world events. I sure hope this game continues to be developed to at least give me some fun from time to time if nothing else.
I haven't been on for few months, but these "fan Boys" have a point (with out the insults and QQing) it is Beta, and every one should know what Beta means. If the game fails during devlopment it will likely be due to costs and funding. The economy isn't going well, as I'm sure every one is aware of and it wont be the only game that will likely fall because of the crisis we're having.
Sure, we've changed the game significantly at its foundation several times. But each time was necessary. There is not successful blueprint of how to make a PvE MMOFPS. There was nothing to copy, nothing to emulate. When I worked on WoW, we had Everquest to emulate.
We tried levels, tiers and now resource based progression. Levels was copied from MMOs, but it didn't feel right for a shooter and people were voting by quitting early and not playing as much. When we switched to tiers, retention shot way up, but it still had fundamental broken issues that were highlighted by the community. When we switched to resource based progression, and the new crafting system, we had an interesting result. The bad part was that it alienated half our users as much as it entertained the other half. The good news was that metrics were up everywhere...people are playing for longer and are more engaged than ever before. Now we have to work on the alienation of a good chunk of our users due to an incomplete crafting UI and testling limits on progresssion being made too difficult.
But we don't make these chnages on a whim. Had we shipped with the original leveling system, the game would have been a disaster. Thankfullly, since we develop features with our community, we discovered the problem early on. We share features early, before the last 10% where 90% of the work is, so that we *can* make these changes without throwing away a ton of work, or become so invested in a system that we refuse to change it.
Our process has been a new one for all of us, devs and community. But we can measure its success and improvements each step, while avoiding some bad systems that got put to rest early...all thanks to community driven development.
You realize the reason people stopped playing was because there was nothing to do (other than grind thumper groups), right? Not because of problems with core mechanics. You're designing content for 10 levels, then wondering why people don't stick around to reach level 50.
You people change core mechanics like most people change underwear, and it's going to cost you in the end. I for one have absolutely no confidence left in Red5. And that's a shame.
Sure, we've changed the game significantly at its foundation several times. But each time was necessary. There is not successful blueprint of how to make a PvE MMOFPS. There was nothing to copy, nothing to emulate. When I worked on WoW, we had Everquest to emulate.
We tried levels, tiers and now resource based progression. Levels was copied from MMOs, but it didn't feel right for a shooter and people were voting by quitting early and not playing as much. When we switched to tiers, retention shot way up, but it still had fundamental broken issues that were highlighted by the community. When we switched to resource based progression, and the new crafting system, we had an interesting result. The bad part was that it alienated half our users as much as it entertained the other half. The good news was that metrics were up everywhere...people are playing for longer and are more engaged than ever before. Now we have to work on the alienation of a good chunk of our users due to an incomplete crafting UI and testling limits on progresssion being made too difficult.
But we don't make these chnages on a whim. Had we shipped with the original leveling system, the game would have been a disaster. Thankfullly, since we develop features with our community, we discovered the problem early on. We share features early, before the last 10% where 90% of the work is, so that we *can* make these changes without throwing away a ton of work, or become so invested in a system that we refuse to change it.
Our process has been a new one for all of us, devs and community. But we can measure its success and improvements each step, while avoiding some bad systems that got put to rest early...all thanks to community driven development.
You realize the reason people stopped playing was because there was nothing to do (other than grind thumper groups), right? Not because of problems with core mechanics. You're designing content for 10 levels, then wondering why people don't stick around to reach level 50.
You people change core mechanics like most people change underwear, and it's going to cost you in the end. I for one have absolutely no confidence left in Red5. And that's a shame.
Yep, what he said.
Adding this bit in myself.
Stop trying to spin everything. Stop playing a hype/propaganda game with your supporters. Stop lying about how long you have been in beta, just stop lying to in general.
I always thought I'd be stonewalled by the resource grind but I'm finding this build is actually quiet enjoyable. As I've suggested previously lock in the systems then push out the content. I think we are getting closer.
Comments
While i agree with alot of the comments here,i have to come and say something about the game.Has it been too long in the beta form? you bet! Has it been wasteful towards resources and Time spent? Indeed.There is no content to keep you interested? True!
But does it mean the Dev doesnt care at all? no.As a matter of fact the reason they keep changing was because their motto is apparently something alone the lines of " listening to community feedbak" which is why they know that the old systems wont work and they changed it a couple more times.They are not trying to make the same old game that people play for a week and forget,theyre trying to make game that have decent followers and Solid gameplay.Are these things in the game right now? not yet.Now that the core systems are in place,they will focus everything they have to push out contents,AI,performances,UI,Balances and PvP.Will there be enough time for them to do this? im skeptic myself but if you go to their forum,you'll know that they are working hard and accepting people's opinion about the game.
And the last that im sure will get flamed on.I know people's perception of Closed and Open beta has changes in the past few years.The Dev here is kinda old school though.When they meant closed beta they meant "every shit is broken and you are our true testers!" not "we have tested this alot and now you help find the missing ones" So when people are defending the game because its in beta.Its because its in the fucking beta! Heck their open beta is pretty much the same other than more people will come in and test the server as well other than finding all the bugs.
hallo ~_~
Well read some more of the comments about MMORPG.com. Having been a member here for many years I find the opinions of people from other sites about this site a sad statement on how people view MMORPG.coms forums and it's members. Nothing to be proud of or make light of I think.
No signature, I don't have a pen
Its ironic how the CEO makes a statement of that magnititude while rounding up the acolytes to "counter" opinions but if it wasn't for MMORPG and the soft reviews I found here, I wouldn't even have remembered Firefall existed and checked it out. "MMORPG hates everything". A good game is a good game. If people like it they will play it.
How about Red5 team focus on making decisions make the game and release it and deal with the reactions good or bad? The sitting on the fence and mutual hand jobbing between devs and their band of merry men is a waste of time and talented resources.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I find it more ironic that you just made you account today to just post alot of vitriolic statements about other games.
You say a good game is a good game and yet you don't list what you consider a "good game" as a example. I play a crapton of games and looking forward to a few more that are coming out this year and I have my opinions on what I consider good and what I think is just crap.
Ones opinion is just that , an opinion.
This could end up being very interesting.
Lets get this out the way, Yes i am a fanboy
im not going to try and counter the points made here i want to simply state a few facts about this game and its development process that not many people outside of the long time beta tester are aware of, the main one being " THIS IS NOT A COMMERCIAL BETA"
i was lucky enough to join the firefall beta early 2012 after winning a key off the ceo on twitter, at that time there was no open world, there was no crafting there where 3 pvp maps and the servers opened for a few hours onece a week, to open up beta to outsiders at this stage is considered madness to many video games developers, but red5 chose to do it stating they want the players to help mold the game, and from what i have seen that is exactly what they have done, in the year since then they have overhauled the progression 3x, first regular lvls which the players said disincentivized people from playing the game because as u progressed to higher lvl's it slowed down far to much killing the fun, something typically seen in standard mmorpg's after this they overhauled to the "tech tree" system a system that allowed players to use exp to upgrade a path on there chosen tree to get more equipment and eventually unlock the next 1 or 2 battleframes in the class, players said that limited customizeation and made the progression exstremely horizontal, by this point crafting was in the game and pvp was taking a hit because it wasnt so much about skill as it was about who spent the most time building the best equipment for pvp,
so as of about 1 month ago firefall has been ovehauled again to where you can think of your battleframes being of a "moba" style all being diferent and haveing there role with costomizeation options in pve, where as the pvp has been split so that each battleframe has a set loadout and everyone is even, there are currently 15 frames to chose from R5 are exspected to double that in due time,
what im saying is all this was done on player feedback and the players where able to give that feedback by being allowed in to the game and desighn progress long before a standard beta (gw2 or mass effect3 for example) and long before they game was anywhere near what could be considered a complete stage,
i imagine someof you will have tried this game a while back before these changes and decided to instantly wash your hands of it, lots has changed especially the pvp,(see link)
skip till 1hour in
in anycase fanboy rant over, not that anyone read this far down >.<
I didn't make an account today. I didn't make any vitrolic statement about the game. I posted the silly thing the CEO did as I was actually checking out the game again. THAT'S ironic. What's worse is you guys are still making accounts to try to change peoples opinions when you've been spotted. You're a follower who is doing the bidding of an irresponsible indecisive CEO right now. How can anybody view that as objective?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You realize it's still in beta? Half of these comments think it's a full released game and are treating it as such. Give it time to fully develop, and then do your reviews. Better yet, come to the forums and give your suggestions as to how you can shape this game.
- signed,
a "fanboy"
I had a point but ...meh.
People are going to like what they like...get over it.
This could end up being very interesting.
Another fanboy here, I guess, and ready to take the bullets... Fire at will.
Been there since December. Yes I get bored sometimes. Yes I have already made some pauses to play other games... Problem is other games seem "boring" now... So keep coming back, and all in all I've mostly played Firefall since then... I help as I can, criticizing when I feel right, congratulating when I feel it's just...
So if you haven't tryed it, give it a shot... Remember its work in progress... Give constructive feedback... Make up your own mind, it's not like its gonna cost you anything (except some time).
Don't follow the regular and easy path of badmouthing everything you do not like, just for the sake of it (beware of the dark force!
)... That's what I find irresponsible...
To bad that happens everywhere, and not just on gaming industry...
"Vidis Fodidis Est"
I played a bit the beta, I can't but agree with all the comments here.
Too few content, too many regular overhauls, and a general feeling that the devs don't have a clear goal they want to achieve with the game. It's true that the dev listen to community feedback and they are doing probably the best community driven development out there.
I don't know if it will fail or not. As the game is currently, it's not my cup of tea.
In the end it may thrive on a small or dedicated community, but personally I don't know which are the dev goals. Global Agenda hasn't a vast community, but it's still around after how many years? 5? It even changed business model...
Who knows what will happen to FireFall?
All that I know is that I was excited when I got the beta key, but now I'm not anymore.
As you can tell, I've been around here for awhile. I've seen games come, I've seen games go. I've been in the Firefall closed beta for more than a year now. In that time the game has changed enormously. There is much more content now, many of the major problems have been dealt with, and the game has evolved to an enjoyable state.
Part of the problem that many people have missed, is that this is a REAL beta test. Its very much a work in progress. Its not the usual beta test, that all too many companies use to hype their game. That being the case, its neither content nor feature complete yet. Anyone coming into it, without that understanding, is bound to be disappointed.
The next six months to a year will tell the tale. If Grummz and the rest of Red5 can add in the features they have spoken of, and polish the game, it has the potential to gain a stable, loyal player base. But with The9 having serious problems, I'd say the clock is ticking.
EA would not touch this nightmare as it has to deal with Mark.
http://forums.firefallthegame.com/community/threads/horrible-comments-why.94283/
Later on in this article you can see how wishy-washy Mark is as he entertains a fan boys on Firefall website. Stating that MMORPG.com hates all games.
Sure, we've changed the game significantly at its foundation several times. But each time was necessary. There is not successful blueprint of how to make a PvE MMOFPS. There was nothing to copy, nothing to emulate. When I worked on WoW, we had Everquest to emulate.
We tried levels, tiers and now resource based progression. Levels was copied from MMOs, but it didn't feel right for a shooter and people were voting by quitting early and not playing as much. When we switched to tiers, retention shot way up, but it still had fundamental broken issues that were highlighted by the community. When we switched to resource based progression, and the new crafting system, we had an interesting result. The bad part was that it alienated half our users as much as it entertained the other half. The good news was that metrics were up everywhere...people are playing for longer and are more engaged than ever before. Now we have to work on the alienation of a good chunk of our users due to an incomplete crafting UI and testling limits on progresssion being made too difficult.
But we don't make these chnages on a whim. Had we shipped with the original leveling system, the game would have been a disaster. Thankfullly, since we develop features with our community, we discovered the problem early on. We share features early, before the last 10% where 90% of the work is, so that we *can* make these changes without throwing away a ton of work, or become so invested in a system that we refuse to change it.
Our process has been a new one for all of us, devs and community. But we can measure its success and improvements each step, while avoiding some bad systems that got put to rest early...all thanks to community driven development.
Follow me on <a href="https://twitter.com/grummz">Twitter: @Grummz<;/a>
grummz, you can copy individual aspects of each game you want your game to have.
The most important aspects are world, how your character is controlled, feels and interacts with it and the progression reward system to keep people logging on and playing.
Well, I Love the game.
Kev
You realize the reason people stopped playing was because there was nothing to do (other than grind thumper groups), right? Not because of problems with core mechanics. You're designing content for 10 levels, then wondering why people don't stick around to reach level 50.
You people change core mechanics like most people change underwear, and it's going to cost you in the end. I for one have absolutely no confidence left in Red5. And that's a shame.
Yep, what he said.
Adding this bit in myself.
Stop trying to spin everything. Stop playing a hype/propaganda game with your supporters. Stop lying about how long you have been in beta, just stop lying to in general.