LOL- Well MMORPG and "MMO" are interchangable now, arent they?
RPG used to mean "depth", "Longevity", "extensive character creation", "risk vs reward" etc. Even in suingle player... NOW RPG is a linear story (often a FPS) that has stats and shops and is usually over in 12 hours.
MMORPG uised to mean "Virtual World" with RPG gameplay meant to have longevity. NOW? Well, it certainly has more people shelling out Dollars, but so does Justin beiber.
Yeah, the world changes. Genre changes. It is called progression. If you want to be left behind, be my guest.
We use to ride horses to work too. So what if virtual world is marginalized. May be people found other gameplay elements more fun.
What you call progression some of us call it dumbdown devolving.
We all here knows how you like your MMOs should be, instant travel, arrows pointing to your "quest area", clear path from A to B, a big fucking ! over quest NPCs so not even a blind man cant miss that sucker and while your at it why don't you make all the quest items glows like a christmas tree so it's impossible to miss them, is that really fun?, ahh that right RIFT uses this shit.
We all know how you like your MMORPGs to be you have stated this many times.
Me and many others really like to play a MMO that actually pose a challenge a game that you are forced to use your brain and use other players around you, a game that last more than a month.
I'm not saying your idea of a MMO is wrong but calling it progression in the MMO genre is really dumb thing to say.
We hop games also. It's tough to find an enjoyable game that stays enjoyable.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Originally posted by Theocritus The problem with the industry as a whole is that almsot all of the newer games are built for short term entertainment...They are made so companies can get their money fast then move on.....Has there been any MMO in the last couple of years that had any lasting value whatsoever?
Nope.
If not for the terrible debacle that Square Enix did to FFXI,very similar to what SOE did to SWG,i would be quite happy playing that game still to this day.I think you do need to take breaks,example watch a movie,play sports,get out and swim or bike or whatever.Sex is always a good thing as well :P
I actually enjoy trying to play all aspects of a games content and i still get bored so i can't imagine how people do nothing but level up and then look for boss fights to get gear.Example i might go out to a Campaign battle in FFXI or Beseiged ,i don't see hardly anyone doing Campaigns because they are too busy chasing carrots instead of just enjoying the content.
Square Enix actually put a LOT of content into the game,players just won't do it,so i think we can really blame the players themselves for getting bored.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What you call progression some of us call it dumbdown devolving.
We all here knows how you like your MMOs should be, instant travel, arrows pointing to your "quest area", clear path from A to B, a big fucking ! over quest NPCs so not even a blind man cant miss that sucker and while your at it why don't you make all the quest items glows like a christmas tree so it's impossible to miss them, is that really fun?, ahh that right RIFT uses this shit.
We all know how you like your MMORPGs to be you have stated this many times.
Me and many others really like to play a MMO that actually pose a challenge a game that you are forced to use your brain and use other players around you, a game that last more than a month.
I'm not saying your idea of a MMO is wrong but calling it progression in the MMO genre is really dumb thing to say.
Well some of this is bittervets being angry at any change to their genre, and complaining about the removal of "gameplay" that wasn't really gameplay.
For example there was almost never anything particularly deep or clever about being unable to find a quest location (except the rare quest where finding the location was the quest.) Yet despite removing almost no gameplay (and indirectly adding gameplay by fast-tracking players directly to the quests where gameplay happens) some veteran players complain about the change. Granted there are implementation details which could be improved. For example having a quest display as a vague area instead of a pinprick objective location ends up playing better: you find the general area quickly, but then you stop looking at the minimap and have to look at your surroundings to solve the quest's objectives.
The right challenge is certainly at the heart of fun gameplay, but in this case (and other things veterans complain about) there isn't really a true "challenge" being removed, and instead you're being fast-tracked to where the challenge actually is.
It's even more obvious with travel times, as travel involves virtually no challenge and virtually no interesting decision-making, and just flat-out waters a game down if used excessively. Which is why the optimal travel in games tends to be "travel the slow way to a new location once; then instant travel to any previously-discovered location."
Could you make a game where travel had gameplay? Absolutely. But did the older MMORPGs (the ones we're comparing the new MMORPGs with) have this gameplay? The answer is a definite "no" in almost every case. And in the cases where the answer wasn't no, the gameplay added by travel tended to be light and inconsistent.
The point being that the industry has certainly advanced and created games which are far more enjoyable than the early stumblings of the genre.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by Theocritus The problem with the industry as a whole is that almsot all of the newer games are built for short term entertainment...They are made so companies can get their money fast then move on.....Has there been any MMO in the last couple of years that had any lasting value whatsoever?
Why is it a "problem"?
It is not like we are running out of games to play.
it's the marriage argument.
it's not like we run out of girls to sleep with.
Haha good answer.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by Theocritus The problem with the industry as a whole is that almsot all of the newer games are built for short term entertainment...They are made so companies can get their money fast then move on.....Has there been any MMO in the last couple of years that had any lasting value whatsoever?
Why is it a "problem"?
It is not like we are running out of games to play.
It's a problem for some of us because we don't like the same recycled bullshit over and over again.
Then don't play them? How is something you don't want to play a problem?
I never said I did play them, you assumed I did. The "problem for "us" is that we have nothing to play that is worth a damn to "us".
Then go find something else to do. Where you got the idea that anyone owed you a game that you like is beyond me.
But it is happening. The industry is growing. MOre people are playing.
There are problems with individual games, yes, always have been always will, but the industry is growing.
And after the initial launch (maintaining millions of subs is not reasonable) the games drop to the 50-500k level that MMO's have typically always been at.
Back in the day, there were only enough people playing to keep 2-3 games alive at the 50-500k level, today there are hundreds of games at that level and at least 50-60 new ones coming out every single year. The idea that the industry has problems is absurd, except to people who refuse to open their eyes.
Originally posted by cyberkill I feel like this happens every year to me but ever since I quit my main MMORPG 4 years ago, I find an MMO I enjoy and then my friends quit, I get bored and I move to the next one or I end up beta testing until another big one comes out. I feel like this happens every summer to me and I was curious if this happens to anybody else.
I kind of went through this cycle for awhile, mostly with beta testing. My friends have mostly stopped playing MMOs and I don't really blame them. We're kind of done. I'm still playing The Secret World, but mostly because I don't really need the rest of my clan to play. :-)
We have started playing a lot of Minecraft using the Feed the Beast mod and the ultra-hard core game mod, but I expect I'll be back to Bioshock Infinite, Alan Wake, Deux Ex and TSW shortly.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by cyberkill I feel like this happens every year to me but ever since I quit my main MMORPG 4 years ago, I find an MMO I enjoy and then my friends quit, I get bored and I move to the next one or I end up beta testing until another big one comes out. I feel like this happens every summer to me and I was curious if this happens to anybody else.
It always happens to me, sometime It's depressing because your real friends want to do something else or they don't like it.
But it is happening. The industry is growing. MOre people are playing.
There are problems with individual games, yes, always have been always will, but the industry is growing.
And after the initial launch (maintaining millions of subs is not reasonable) the games drop to the 50-500k level that MMO's have typically always been at.
Back in the day, there were only enough people playing to keep 2-3 games alive at the 50-500k level, today there are hundreds of games at that level and at least 50-60 new ones coming out every single year. The idea that the industry has problems is absurd, except to people who refuse to open their eyes.
It's because it was a niche genre then. Which I REALLY wish it still were. At least then, as I stated in my above post...maybe companies would take more pride in their work instead of just throwing in everything deemed popular today and creating garbage with no identity beyond initial box numbers before their product tanks.
Originally posted by Theocritus The problem with the industry as a whole is that almsot all of the newer games are built for short term entertainment...They are made so companies can get their money fast then move on.....Has there been any MMO in the last couple of years that had any lasting value whatsoever?
Why is it a "problem"?
It is not like we are running out of games to play.
it's the marriage argument.
it's not like we run out of girls to sleep with.
I never commit to a game. It is silly to equate using an entertainment product with marriage.
It's because it was a niche genre then. Which I REALLY wish it still were. At least then, as I stated in my above post...maybe companies would take more pride in their work instead of just throwing in everything deemed popular today and creating garbage with no identity beyond initial box numbers before their product tanks.
Why do you think they are not proud now?
Garbgage to you ... treasure to many. You whole argument is that you don't like modern games ... well .. no one owes you a game you like.
It's because it was a niche genre then. Which I REALLY wish it still were. At least then, as I stated in my above post...maybe companies would take more pride in their work instead of just throwing in everything deemed popular today and creating garbage with no identity beyond initial box numbers before their product tanks.
Why do you think they are not proud now?
Garbgage to you ... treasure to many. You whole argument is that you don't like modern games ... well .. no one owes you a game you like.
Always the same tired response.
And as I have to constantly try and pound through your overly thick skull, I never said anyone owed me a game did I. Find one post I have stated so. I NEVER said I didn't like modern games either. I don't like most modern MMORPG's though yes.....which is what I am constantly referring to. Unliek you who constantly mentions non-MMORPG games in an MMORPG discussion.
And I am sure they are proud, but for different reasons now. Like how easy it is to make so much money when delivery so little content.
As tired as your response. If you want to keep it up, i am game.
Yeah, we know you don't like modern MMOs ... and you are sticking your head in the sand that they are good games for others.
Oh, i am sure they are proud for a good reason .. that they make good games that entertain many .. and they probably care less about some arbitrary definition of what MMO "should be" by some random internet dude like youself.
Originally posted by cyberkill I feel like this happens every year to me but ever since I quit my main MMORPG 4 years ago, I find an MMO I enjoy and then my friends quit, I get bored and I move to the next one or I end up beta testing until another big one comes out. I feel like this happens every summer to me and I was curious if this happens to anybody else.
It always happens to me, sometime It's depressing because your real friends want to do something else or they don't like it.
Indeed my friends would get bored super quick and that would be that... I have been playing a lot of other games but I feel like this happens every year and with all the super hyped flops its just getting old. I really hope that some of the upcoming big hits are worth staying with. For now I gotta start networking out since my friends will probably ADD themselves out of the next game too.
Beta testing as many games as I have has ruined me. I feel like everything it blending together. I do have some hope for some upcoming titles I just hope they don't turn into the failed attempts like warhammer
Comments
What you call progression some of us call it dumbdown devolving.
We all here knows how you like your MMOs should be, instant travel, arrows pointing to your "quest area", clear path from A to B, a big fucking ! over quest NPCs so not even a blind man cant miss that sucker and while your at it why don't you make all the quest items glows like a christmas tree so it's impossible to miss them, is that really fun?, ahh that right RIFT uses this shit.
We all know how you like your MMORPGs to be you have stated this many times.
Me and many others really like to play a MMO that actually pose a challenge a game that you are forced to use your brain and use other players around you, a game that last more than a month.
I'm not saying your idea of a MMO is wrong but calling it progression in the MMO genre is really dumb thing to say.
Autowin is progession right?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
We hop games also. It's tough to find an enjoyable game that stays enjoyable.
Nope.
If not for the terrible debacle that Square Enix did to FFXI,very similar to what SOE did to SWG,i would be quite happy playing that game still to this day.I think you do need to take breaks,example watch a movie,play sports,get out and swim or bike or whatever.Sex is always a good thing as well :P
I actually enjoy trying to play all aspects of a games content and i still get bored so i can't imagine how people do nothing but level up and then look for boss fights to get gear.Example i might go out to a Campaign battle in FFXI or Beseiged ,i don't see hardly anyone doing Campaigns because they are too busy chasing carrots instead of just enjoying the content.
Square Enix actually put a LOT of content into the game,players just won't do it,so i think we can really blame the players themselves for getting bored.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well some of this is bittervets being angry at any change to their genre, and complaining about the removal of "gameplay" that wasn't really gameplay.
For example there was almost never anything particularly deep or clever about being unable to find a quest location (except the rare quest where finding the location was the quest.) Yet despite removing almost no gameplay (and indirectly adding gameplay by fast-tracking players directly to the quests where gameplay happens) some veteran players complain about the change. Granted there are implementation details which could be improved. For example having a quest display as a vague area instead of a pinprick objective location ends up playing better: you find the general area quickly, but then you stop looking at the minimap and have to look at your surroundings to solve the quest's objectives.
The right challenge is certainly at the heart of fun gameplay, but in this case (and other things veterans complain about) there isn't really a true "challenge" being removed, and instead you're being fast-tracked to where the challenge actually is.
It's even more obvious with travel times, as travel involves virtually no challenge and virtually no interesting decision-making, and just flat-out waters a game down if used excessively. Which is why the optimal travel in games tends to be "travel the slow way to a new location once; then instant travel to any previously-discovered location."
Could you make a game where travel had gameplay? Absolutely. But did the older MMORPGs (the ones we're comparing the new MMORPGs with) have this gameplay? The answer is a definite "no" in almost every case. And in the cases where the answer wasn't no, the gameplay added by travel tended to be light and inconsistent.
The point being that the industry has certainly advanced and created games which are far more enjoyable than the early stumblings of the genre.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Haha good answer.
Then go find something else to do. Where you got the idea that anyone owed you a game that you like is beyond me.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Back in the day, there were only enough people playing to keep 2-3 games alive at the 50-500k level, today there are hundreds of games at that level and at least 50-60 new ones coming out every single year. The idea that the industry has problems is absurd, except to people who refuse to open their eyes.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I kind of went through this cycle for awhile, mostly with beta testing. My friends have mostly stopped playing MMOs and I don't really blame them. We're kind of done. I'm still playing The Secret World, but mostly because I don't really need the rest of my clan to play. :-)
We have started playing a lot of Minecraft using the Feed the Beast mod and the ultra-hard core game mod, but I expect I'll be back to Bioshock Infinite, Alan Wake, Deux Ex and TSW shortly.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
It always happens to me, sometime It's depressing because your real friends want to do something else or they don't like it.
I really don't know what to put here.
It's because it was a niche genre then. Which I REALLY wish it still were. At least then, as I stated in my above post...maybe companies would take more pride in their work instead of just throwing in everything deemed popular today and creating garbage with no identity beyond initial box numbers before their product tanks.
I never commit to a game. It is silly to equate using an entertainment product with marriage.
Why do you think they are not proud now?
Garbgage to you ... treasure to many. You whole argument is that you don't like modern games ... well .. no one owes you a game you like.
As tired as your response. If you want to keep it up, i am game.
Yeah, we know you don't like modern MMOs ... and you are sticking your head in the sand that they are good games for others.
Oh, i am sure they are proud for a good reason .. that they make good games that entertain many .. and they probably care less about some arbitrary definition of what MMO "should be" by some random internet dude like youself.
Isn't supply & demand a fun thing?
Indeed my friends would get bored super quick and that would be that... I have been playing a lot of other games but I feel like this happens every year and with all the super hyped flops its just getting old. I really hope that some of the upcoming big hits are worth staying with. For now I gotta start networking out since my friends will probably ADD themselves out of the next game too.