They were discussing innovative ideas for "combat rez" in CU on the Opposition Podcast last night. The discussion was interesting, but I think it was clear that MJ was against any kind of easy return to battle after death. Death must sting and have some real penalty and so forth...
I've always interpreted what Mark has said about easy returns to battle to be referring to the porting back to keeps after releasing that was possible in DAOC's NF not to rezzing during battles. In fact he has specifically mentioned the ability to burn bodies of fallen enemies to prevent them from being rezzed which implies that if you don't burn them, they can be rezzed. Anyway enough about that. There will be plenty of time to debate specific game features when the official forums go up.
They were discussing innovative ideas for "combat rez" in CU on the Opposition Podcast last night. The discussion was interesting, but I think it was clear that MJ was against any kind of easy return to battle after death. Death must sting and have some real penalty and so forth...
I've always interpreted what Mark has said about easy returns to battle to be referring to the porting back to keeps after releasing that was possible in DAOC's NF not to rezzing during battles. In fact he has specifically mentioned the ability to burn bodies of fallen enemies to prevent them from being rezzed which implies that if you don't burn them, they can be rezzed. Anyway enough about that. There will be plenty of time to debate specific game features when the official forums go up.
Yeah, I sort of thought he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. Not sure how it will turn out. To me, combat rez is an easy pop-up from death, so it will be interesting to see which notion prevails. One of the ideas on the podcast was to allow combat resurrection, but make it extremely resource-expensve on the rezzer. So much so, that it will be a difficult decision as to the best course of action. An example might be the rezzer loses an HP for each HP restored to the target.
I can support either mindset as long as it is well-implemented.
Yeah, I sort of thought he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. Not sure how it will turn out. To me, combat rez is an easy pop-up from death, so it will be interesting to see which notion prevails. One of the ideas on the podcast was to allow combat resurrection, but make it extremely resource-expensve on the rezzer. So much so, that it will be a difficult decision as to the best course of action. An example might be the rezzer loses an HP for each HP restored to the target.
I can support either mindset as long as it is well-implemented.
You have to remember it's easy to make combat rez hard, or expensive on the user. This isn't wow where you have fast cast combat rezzes, the easy solution to make death sting yet still enable the possibility of coming back if you die and arn't burned is by making rez cost a lot of mana and be a slow slow cast, remember interuptable spells so commiting to rez someone mid battle is not only difficult it's usually pointless until the battle is over.
I think he mentioned burning bodies will take time too, wont be a right click and select burn, but will add a tactical point to 8v8 battles if you can kill someone and get them burned can turn the tide of a battle.
What I found disturbing more than people getting upset by the thread spam was the people that would cry out that the mods hated CU and they had an agenda against it. They claimed the mods created a culture of trolls. They blamed them for not allowing them to "attack the trolls." It got really ugly there more than a few times.
This is a tactic I warned MMORPG.com about... and I have some really interesting links on it... which I probably shouldn't post 13861848 / 4182013
Let's just say that what goes on in forums is often governed by moderators. The problem that often occurs in developer forums is there is a tendancy to support the 'fans' (because after all - they are saying nice things!) at the expense of the critics. The problem is, IMHO, in game development you need those critics.
So what I have seen in the past is the Developer Forums became a haven for the 'fans' and MMORPG.com forum became a haven for the 'trolls' (critics).
They were discussing innovative ideas for "combat rez" in CU on the Opposition Podcast last night. The discussion was interesting, but I think it was clear that MJ was against any kind of easy return to battle after death. Death must sting and have some real penalty and so forth...
I've always interpreted what Mark has said about easy returns to battle to be referring to the porting back to keeps after releasing that was possible in DAOC's NF not to rezzing during battles. In fact he has specifically mentioned the ability to burn bodies of fallen enemies to prevent them from being rezzed which implies that if you don't burn them, they can be rezzed. Anyway enough about that. There will be plenty of time to debate specific game features when the official forums go up.
I see where you're coming from, but I also interpreted that way as well. But I also got the feeling that there will be no in combat rezzing, or that rezzing will be a long cast and very interruptable to the point that it pretty much can't be used in combat unless you are super lucky or being ignored.
Basically sounds like he wants most of the rezzing to be done after combat pretty much by just the winning side.
Which makes perfect sense and I'm totally on board with this.
Could you please tell me why you need the critics? And please don't answer that question in a generalized way, but be definitive. Thanks
Definitive...
Because without the critics ideas are unchallenged and potential flaws are therefore not considered.
How's that?
Specific example - in Pirates of the Burning Sea the Port Battle mechanic was to be an instance allowing the same number of players on each side to attend 25 vs 25 (giving a balanced battle).
Several people on the forum questioned this - and were shouted down on the grounds that this ensured balanced battles.
The counter point raised was that this would only be possible if there were 25 people from a faction online at the time.
The fans rubbished this - saying that it was unthinkable that a game allowing 8000(?) per server would not constantly have the required number of people on line to fill all slots in these battles.
The Fanbois shouted the whole argument down and got threads locked with the support of a FLS moderator.
So what happened?
On several servers port battles went uncontested or were so unbalanced that they were a complete farce. The higher populated factions exploited the weakness and deliberately stacked port battles to make it impossible for some factions to defend.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by Gyrus
Originally posted by colddog04 ...
What I found disturbing more than people getting upset by the thread spam was the people that would cry out that the mods hated CU and they had an agenda against it. They claimed the mods created a culture of trolls. They blamed them for not allowing them to "attack the trolls." It got really ugly there more than a few times.
This is a tactic I warned MMORPG.com about... and I have some really interesting links on it... which I probably shouldn't post 13861848 / 4182013
Let's just say that what goes on in forums is often governed by moderators. The problem that often occurs in developer forums is there is a tendancy to support the 'fans' (because after all - they are saying nice things!) at the expense of the critics. The problem is, IMHO, in game development you need those critics.
So what I have seen in the past is the Developer Forums became a haven for the 'fans' and MMORPG.com forum became a haven for the 'trolls' (critics).
For what it's worth, I want our backers to voice their concerns/disagreements. I was in the comment section last night and I told the folks that we will have a strict "Don't be a jackass" policy. I will apply it to anyone who is not helping things along. I want to hear opinions from all sides but what I don't want nor will I tolerate, people flaming each other, us, making threats, sexual suggestions towards CSE staff, etc. Critics != Trolls usually. I just will not tolerate rude behavior on our developer forums.
I think the CU forum mods are going to have their work cut out for them. As the KS came to an end the posts (trollish from both supporters and detractors) became ugly. I'm sure the MMORPG mods can attest to this, as I saw blatant posts declaring positions like 'suck it' that were obviously on track for removal. Point being, CU has raised the passions of some to a fury level, and it would seem that one miss-step on development side will put the debates into hysteria mode.
Could you please tell me why you need the critics? And please don't answer that question in a generalized way, but be definitive. Thanks
Definitive...
Because without the critics ideas are unchallenged and potential flaws are therefore not considered.
How's that?
Specific example - in Pirates of the Burning Sea the Port Battle mechanic was to be an instance allowing the same number of players on each side to attend 25 vs 25 (giving a balanced battle).
Several people on the forum questioned this - and were shouted down on the grounds that this ensured balanced battles.
The counter point raised was that this would only be possible if there were 25 people from a faction online at the time.
The fans rubbished this - saying that it was unthinkable that a game allowing 8000(?) per server would not constantly have the required number of people on line to fill all slots in these battles.
The Fanbois shouted the whole argument down and got threads locked with the support of a FLS moderator.
So what happened?
On several servers port battles went uncontested or were so unbalanced that they were a complete farce. The higher populated factions exploited the weakness and deliberately stacked port battles to make it impossible for some factions to defend.
I had actually retracted my question earlier as I realized that I had asked the question in haste. Still, thank you for your reply.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I'll go ahead and chime in, since I believe it was a few of my replies that have been specifically called out in here, from the 'green text' rant in the nanny-post, to the 'suck it' comment left on Massively when this funded.
I will first stand up right off the bat and tell you that I am a 'fangirl' of CU. That said, I have gladly and civilly debated topics with many here who I would personally consider to be trolls, but who posted above average arguments that could be bantered back and forth about. Please feel free to view my post history. If someone can come up with a well reasoned argument, or concern, or a different point of view, I may not like it but I won't go on the attack and shoot that person down right away.
When I see a person come in with a condescending tone, poo-pooing the game or the community in general without having a reason why other than 'Mark Jacobs sux0rz cause he does and I said so', then yeah, I'm gonna shoot that person down. When I see a post lecture the community in general on how they should behave like a mother hen, I'm gonna shoot it down. I've had more than a good share of warnings and even had serious replies with no flames, trolls, or cursing in it deleted on here without so much as a thank you very much or a reaon as to why.
As for the 'Suck It' comment I left, one time, on Massively, directed to the deliberate trolls on there who follwed every single thread and posted pointless, uninspired, uninformative troll posts - *cough*Dreliron*cough*, *cough*lordkrall88*cough*, among others there who were more than happy to shout down the game, MJ, the community, or anything that had to do with the game in general, well, when the game funded I didn't hesitate. It felt damned good, and I stand by it. Those people can indeed suck it as far as I'm concerned.
It was a mild response compared to what I really wanted to say. It was out of respect for a few people in the CU Community that I didn't go further. The same can be said for certain trolls here who I'm not going to bother to call out, Meddyck NOT being one of them.
I was sorely tempted to write a nice rant with some choice words, happy to accept the ban I would have gotten for it. Looked forward to it in fact. A long time poster here had a thread dedicated to bashing the shit out of them from trolls who were more than happy to kick him when he was down. That thread is still open for comments. Yet, he came on here and thanked the moderators and this site for their (in my view, limited) support. Out of respect for him, I let it go, and didn't write the post I wanted to.
There is a very easily discernable difference between trolls and those with a different point of view or an idea of why something might not work. I've even reconsidered my point of view on more than one item that could make it into the game because of some posts here that were well written and explained. I look forward to more of those.
The whining in general, the fear and the 'concern' that CU isn't going to make it because you didn't do it MY way over and over and over again, CU sucked, CU's marketing sucked, MJ's games sucked, MJ sucked, blah blah blah blah blah. Those were troll posts, simple as that. Not well reasoned, not well thought out, nothing suggested in the way of improvement, nothing contributory, nothing researched or even founded in reality, they just plain out trolled. I have no problem calling it like I see it. I'm not going to change that for anyone.
It has nothing to do with being a fangirl, fanboy, or rabid. It has everything to do with having 2 cells in the grey matter that functionally rub together and applying that force and friction to something productive. The backers forums have a higher chance of success for that than anywhere else.
I'll go ahead and chime in, since I believe it was a few of my replies that have been specifically called out in here, from the 'green text' rant in the nanny-post, to the 'suck it' comment left on Massively when this funded.
I will first stand up right off the bat and tell you that I am a 'fangirl' of CU. That said, I have gladly and civilly debated topics with many here who I would personally consider to be trolls, but who posted above average arguments that could be bantered back and forth about. Please feel free to view my post history. If someone can come up with a well reasoned argument, or concern, or a different point of view, I may not like it but I won't go on the attack and shoot that person down right away.
When I see a person come in with a condescending tone, poo-pooing the game or the community in general without having a reason why other than 'Mark Jacobs sux0rz cause he does and I said so', then yeah, I'm gonna shoot that person down. When I see a post lecture the community in general on how they should behave like a mother hen, I'm gonna shoot it down. I've had more than a good share of warnings and even had serious replies with no flames, trolls, or cursing in it deleted on here without so much as a thank you very much or a reaon as to why.
As for the 'Suck It' comment I left, one time, on Massively, directed to the deliberate trolls on there who follwed every single thread and posted pointless, uninspired, uninformative troll posts - *cough*Dreliron*cough*, *cough*lordkrall88*cough*, among others there who were more than happy to shout down the game, MJ, the community, or anything that had to do with the game in general, well, when the game funded I didn't hesitate. It felt damned good, and I stand by it. Those people can indeed suck it as far as I'm concerned.
It was a mild response compared to what I really wanted to say. It was out of respect for a few people in the CU Community that I didn't go further. The same can be said for certain trolls here who I'm not going to bother to call out, Meddyck NOT being one of them.
I was sorely tempted to write a nice rant with some choice words, happy to accept the ban I would have gotten for it. Looked forward to it in fact. A long time poster here had a thread dedicated to bashing the shit out of them from trolls who were more than happy to kick him when he was down. That thread is still open for comments. Yet, he came on here and thanked the moderators and this site for their (in my view, limited) support. Out of respect for him, I let it go, and didn't write the post I wanted to.
There is a very easily discernable difference between trolls and those with a different point of view or an idea of why something might not work. I've even reconsidered my point of view on more than one item that could make it into the game because of some posts here that were well written and explained. I look forward to more of those.
The whining in general, the fear and the 'concern' that CU isn't going to make it because you didn't do it MY way over and over and over again, CU sucked, CU's marketing sucked, MJ's games sucked, MJ sucked, blah blah blah blah blah. Those were troll posts, simple as that. Not well reasoned, not well thought out, nothing suggested in the way of improvement, nothing contributory, nothing researched or even founded in reality, they just plain out trolled. I have no problem calling it like I see it. I'm not going to change that for anyone.
It has nothing to do with being a fangirl, fanboy, or rabid. It has everything to do with having 2 cells in the grey matter that functionally rub together and applying that force and friction to something productive. The backers forums have a higher chance of success for that than anywhere else.
- The Mark Jacobs is ALWAYS RIGHT AND THOU SHALT NOT QUESTION! group.
- The Internal Testers (so "I know something you don't know" group) - Later joined by the Alphas - then Beta 1s etc... But the orignial Internals will alway have that "I have been here from the beggining" thing working for them.
- The data collectors and collators (They are already there - the Google.doc about the CU FAQ and "what we know so far")
- The "This is how it will be!" group (not based on fact - based on how they want the game to be) - Also the "do it THIS WAY" group.
- The "This isn't going to work" group (not always right / not always wrong)
- The realists
- The backers, followers and lurkers (this is the people who backed the project but really are just waiting for the game - however it turns out - they may not even log in much)
EDIT: And in this case possibly another group - the "you promised THIS (attached quotes) and this is what I PAID FOR!" group.
You forgot a group:
-The I backed this game at the $5 level so I could make sure that I can join the official backers forum and continue to troll this game and it's backers for the next two years.
Mr. Jacobs is going to regret giving forum access at the $5 level. He probably should have just offered his thanks and nothing else and saved forum access to those who pledged $25 or more.
-The I backed this game at the $5 level so I could make sure that I can join the official backers forum and continue to troll this game and it's backers for the next two years
Is it too late for me to become a $5 backer?
:P
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
-The I backed this game at the $5 level so I could make sure that I can join the official backers forum and continue to troll this game and it's backers for the next two years
Is it too late for me to become a $5 backer?
:P
No, it's not.
Apparently, a $5 pledge gives read-only access to the backers forums. This was not immediately apparent in the Kickstarter rewards descriptions, but is stated clearly in the PayPal pledging area.
-The I backed this game at the $5 level so I could make sure that I can join the official backers forum and continue to troll this game and it's backers for the next two years
Is it too late for me to become a $5 backer?
:P
No, it's not.
Apparently, a $5 pledge gives read-only access to the backers forums. This was not immediately apparent in the Kickstarter rewards descriptions, but is stated clearly in the PayPal pledging area.
-The I backed this game at the $5 level so I could make sure that I can join the official backers forum and continue to troll this game and it's backers for the next two years
Is it too late for me to become a $5 backer?
:P
No, it's not.
Apparently, a $5 pledge gives read-only access to the backers forums. This was not immediately apparent in the Kickstarter rewards descriptions, but is stated clearly in the PayPal pledging area.
Trolling the Trolls +5
well you're all safe, apparantly they won't accept a 3rd party, out of country check even if it's co-signed by Sven the janitor at the local Pizza barn (the check was wrote by his cousin Juergen for a wedding gift to Sven that didn't get used because he found out just before the wedding that his fiance Lucinda used to be call Ralph) Anyhow, I don't know what lengths I have to go through to give this title support, so I'm not going to bother anymore! :P
Good luck with your game
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
-The I backed this game at the $5 level so I could make sure that I can join the official backers forum and continue to troll this game and it's backers for the next two years
Is it too late for me to become a $5 backer?
:P
No, it's not.
Apparently, a $5 pledge gives read-only access to the backers forums. This was not immediately apparent in the Kickstarter rewards descriptions, but is stated clearly in the PayPal pledging area.
Trolling the Trolls +5
well you're all safe, apparantly they won't accept a 3rd party, out of country check even if it's co-signed by Sven the janitor at the local Pizza barn (the check was wrote by his cousin Juergen for a wedding gift to Sven that didn't get used because he found out just before the wedding that his fiance Lucinda used to be call Ralph) Anyhow, I don't know what lengths I have to go through to give this title support, so I'm not going to bother anymore! :P
Good luck with your game
Thanks. Also hope your check checks out fine. Give Ralph my regards.
-The I backed this game at the $5 level so I could make sure that I can join the official backers forum and continue to troll this game and it's backers for the next two years
Is it too late for me to become a $5 backer?
:P
No, it's not.
Apparently, a $5 pledge gives read-only access to the backers forums. This was not immediately apparent in the Kickstarter rewards descriptions, but is stated clearly in the PayPal pledging area.
Trolling the Trolls +5
well you're all safe, apparantly they won't accept a 3rd party, out of country check even if it's co-signed by Sven the janitor at the local Pizza barn (the check was wrote by his cousin Juergen for a wedding gift to Sven that didn't get used because he found out just before the wedding that his fiance Lucinda used to be call Ralph) Anyhow, I don't know what lengths I have to go through to give this title support, so I'm not going to bother anymore! :P
Good luck with your game
Thanks. Also hope your check checks out fine. Give Ralph my regards.
oh I'll leave that to you. He/she is a CU backer. More his/her style of game. Can't knock a person for finding a place where they feel they fit in.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Let's just say that what goes on in forums is often governed by moderators. The problem that often occurs in developer forums is there is a tendancy to support the 'fans' (because after all - they are saying nice things!) at the expense of the critics. The problem is, IMHO, in game development you need those critics.
So what I have seen in the past is the Developer Forums became a haven for the 'fans' and MMORPG.com forum became a haven for the 'trolls' (critics).
For what it's worth, I want our backers to voice their concerns/disagreements. I was in the comment section last night and I told the folks that we will have a strict "Don't be a jackass" policy. I will apply it to anyone who is not helping things along. I want to hear opinions from all sides but what I don't want nor will I tolerate, people flaming each other, us, making threats, sexual suggestions towards CSE staff, etc. Critics != Trolls usually. I just will not tolerate rude behavior on our developer forums.
Thanks for your reply.
Then for what it's worth - I have a suggestion for you (you probably already know this anyway)
Endorsement from you, personally, could make a huge difference here.
So, if there is a critic on your forums who is actually providing useful feedback a post by you saying "Yes, I hear you, thank you for the feedback, it is a big help and we will look into it further...I always read your comments because you raise some good points." can change the attitude of the whole community.
Let's just say that what goes on in forums is often governed by moderators. The problem that often occurs in developer forums is there is a tendancy to support the 'fans' (because after all - they are saying nice things!) at the expense of the critics. The problem is, IMHO, in game development you need those critics.
So what I have seen in the past is the Developer Forums became a haven for the 'fans' and MMORPG.com forum became a haven for the 'trolls' (critics).
For what it's worth, I want our backers to voice their concerns/disagreements. I was in the comment section last night and I told the folks that we will have a strict "Don't be a jackass" policy. I will apply it to anyone who is not helping things along. I want to hear opinions from all sides but what I don't want nor will I tolerate, people flaming each other, us, making threats, sexual suggestions towards CSE staff, etc. Critics != Trolls usually. I just will not tolerate rude behavior on our developer forums.
Thanks for your reply.
Then for what it's worth - I have a suggestion for you (you probably already know this anyway)
Endorsement from you, personally, could make a huge difference here.
So, if there is a critic on your forums who is actually providing useful feedback a post by you saying "Yes, I hear you, thank you for the feedback, it is a big help and we will look into it further...I always read your comments because you raise some good points." can change the attitude of the whole community.
Constructive criticism is always more useful to developers than blind adoration. The smart ones know this and will step in and make that clear if all criticism is being shut down by sycophants.
What I found disturbing more than people getting upset by the thread spam was the people that would cry out that the mods hated CU and they had an agenda against it. They claimed the mods created a culture of trolls. They blamed them for not allowing them to "attack the trolls." It got really ugly there more than a few times.
This is a tactic I warned MMORPG.com about... and I have some really interesting links on it... which I probably shouldn't post 13861848 / 4182013
Let's just say that what goes on in forums is often governed by moderators. The problem that often occurs in developer forums is there is a tendancy to support the 'fans' (because after all - they are saying nice things!) at the expense of the critics. The problem is, IMHO, in game development you need those critics.
So what I have seen in the past is the Developer Forums became a haven for the 'fans' and MMORPG.com forum became a haven for the 'trolls' (critics).
For what it's worth, I want our backers to voice their concerns/disagreements. I was in the comment section last night and I told the folks that we will have a strict "Don't be a jackass" policy. I will apply it to anyone who is not helping things along. I want to hear opinions from all sides but what I don't want nor will I tolerate, people flaming each other, us, making threats, sexual suggestions towards CSE staff, etc. Critics != Trolls usually. I just will not tolerate rude behavior on our developer forums.
These aren't just alpha/beta testers, these are the people funding your game.
While strong insults and abusive behaviour etc Im sure no one can have any real complaints with, you can't stop them complaining....they are paying for this game to be made, you have to listen to them. Gag them at your peril, you asked them for money, you have to put up with a certain amount more than you'd usually tolerate.
Caution about overly strong forum moderation, it could be the death of your game before it ever reaches beta.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Comments
I've always interpreted what Mark has said about easy returns to battle to be referring to the porting back to keeps after releasing that was possible in DAOC's NF not to rezzing during battles. In fact he has specifically mentioned the ability to burn bodies of fallen enemies to prevent them from being rezzed which implies that if you don't burn them, they can be rezzed. Anyway enough about that. There will be plenty of time to debate specific game features when the official forums go up.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
the backers forums will be full of fallacious posturing until we know how quick people die.
Give me 20-30 minutes of play but have the death run be 5/10 minutes (ala Eve) and i will be fine with limited rez.
Have PbAoEs that wipe whole groups in 30 seconds, then we need to have rez.
Yeah, I sort of thought he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. Not sure how it will turn out. To me, combat rez is an easy pop-up from death, so it will be interesting to see which notion prevails. One of the ideas on the podcast was to allow combat resurrection, but make it extremely resource-expensve on the rezzer. So much so, that it will be a difficult decision as to the best course of action. An example might be the rezzer loses an HP for each HP restored to the target.
I can support either mindset as long as it is well-implemented.
You have to remember it's easy to make combat rez hard, or expensive on the user. This isn't wow where you have fast cast combat rezzes, the easy solution to make death sting yet still enable the possibility of coming back if you die and arn't burned is by making rez cost a lot of mana and be a slow slow cast, remember interuptable spells so commiting to rez someone mid battle is not only difficult it's usually pointless until the battle is over.
I think he mentioned burning bodies will take time too, wont be a right click and select burn, but will add a tactical point to 8v8 battles if you can kill someone and get them burned can turn the tide of a battle.
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
This is a tactic I warned MMORPG.com about... and I have some really interesting links on it... which I probably shouldn't post 13861848 / 4182013
Let's just say that what goes on in forums is often governed by moderators. The problem that often occurs in developer forums is there is a tendancy to support the 'fans' (because after all - they are saying nice things!) at the expense of the critics. The problem is, IMHO, in game development you need those critics.
So what I have seen in the past is the Developer Forums became a haven for the 'fans' and MMORPG.com forum became a haven for the 'trolls' (critics).
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
I see where you're coming from, but I also interpreted that way as well. But I also got the feeling that there will be no in combat rezzing, or that rezzing will be a long cast and very interruptable to the point that it pretty much can't be used in combat unless you are super lucky or being ignored.
Basically sounds like he wants most of the rezzing to be done after combat pretty much by just the winning side.
Which makes perfect sense and I'm totally on board with this.
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Definitive...
Because without the critics ideas are unchallenged and potential flaws are therefore not considered.
How's that?
Specific example - in Pirates of the Burning Sea the Port Battle mechanic was to be an instance allowing the same number of players on each side to attend 25 vs 25 (giving a balanced battle).
Several people on the forum questioned this - and were shouted down on the grounds that this ensured balanced battles.
The counter point raised was that this would only be possible if there were 25 people from a faction online at the time.
The fans rubbished this - saying that it was unthinkable that a game allowing 8000(?) per server would not constantly have the required number of people on line to fill all slots in these battles.
The Fanbois shouted the whole argument down and got threads locked with the support of a FLS moderator.
So what happened?
On several servers port battles went uncontested or were so unbalanced that they were a complete farce. The higher populated factions exploited the weakness and deliberately stacked port battles to make it impossible for some factions to defend.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
For what it's worth, I want our backers to voice their concerns/disagreements. I was in the comment section last night and I told the folks that we will have a strict "Don't be a jackass" policy. I will apply it to anyone who is not helping things along. I want to hear opinions from all sides but what I don't want nor will I tolerate, people flaming each other, us, making threats, sexual suggestions towards CSE staff, etc. Critics != Trolls usually. I just will not tolerate rude behavior on our developer forums.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
I had actually retracted my question earlier as I realized that I had asked the question in haste. Still, thank you for your reply.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Good luck getting that principle across to your new crowd
I'll go ahead and chime in, since I believe it was a few of my replies that have been specifically called out in here, from the 'green text' rant in the nanny-post, to the 'suck it' comment left on Massively when this funded.
I will first stand up right off the bat and tell you that I am a 'fangirl' of CU. That said, I have gladly and civilly debated topics with many here who I would personally consider to be trolls, but who posted above average arguments that could be bantered back and forth about. Please feel free to view my post history. If someone can come up with a well reasoned argument, or concern, or a different point of view, I may not like it but I won't go on the attack and shoot that person down right away.
When I see a person come in with a condescending tone, poo-pooing the game or the community in general without having a reason why other than 'Mark Jacobs sux0rz cause he does and I said so', then yeah, I'm gonna shoot that person down. When I see a post lecture the community in general on how they should behave like a mother hen, I'm gonna shoot it down. I've had more than a good share of warnings and even had serious replies with no flames, trolls, or cursing in it deleted on here without so much as a thank you very much or a reaon as to why.
As for the 'Suck It' comment I left, one time, on Massively, directed to the deliberate trolls on there who follwed every single thread and posted pointless, uninspired, uninformative troll posts - *cough*Dreliron*cough*, *cough*lordkrall88*cough*, among others there who were more than happy to shout down the game, MJ, the community, or anything that had to do with the game in general, well, when the game funded I didn't hesitate. It felt damned good, and I stand by it. Those people can indeed suck it as far as I'm concerned.
It was a mild response compared to what I really wanted to say. It was out of respect for a few people in the CU Community that I didn't go further. The same can be said for certain trolls here who I'm not going to bother to call out, Meddyck NOT being one of them.
I was sorely tempted to write a nice rant with some choice words, happy to accept the ban I would have gotten for it. Looked forward to it in fact. A long time poster here had a thread dedicated to bashing the shit out of them from trolls who were more than happy to kick him when he was down. That thread is still open for comments. Yet, he came on here and thanked the moderators and this site for their (in my view, limited) support. Out of respect for him, I let it go, and didn't write the post I wanted to.
There is a very easily discernable difference between trolls and those with a different point of view or an idea of why something might not work. I've even reconsidered my point of view on more than one item that could make it into the game because of some posts here that were well written and explained. I look forward to more of those.
The whining in general, the fear and the 'concern' that CU isn't going to make it because you didn't do it MY way over and over and over again, CU sucked, CU's marketing sucked, MJ's games sucked, MJ sucked, blah blah blah blah blah. Those were troll posts, simple as that. Not well reasoned, not well thought out, nothing suggested in the way of improvement, nothing contributory, nothing researched or even founded in reality, they just plain out trolled. I have no problem calling it like I see it. I'm not going to change that for anyone.
It has nothing to do with being a fangirl, fanboy, or rabid. It has everything to do with having 2 cells in the grey matter that functionally rub together and applying that force and friction to something productive. The backers forums have a higher chance of success for that than anywhere else.
Amen. Well said.
You forgot a group:
-The I backed this game at the $5 level so I could make sure that I can join the official backers forum and continue to troll this game and it's backers for the next two years.
Mr. Jacobs is going to regret giving forum access at the $5 level. He probably should have just offered his thanks and nothing else and saved forum access to those who pledged $25 or more.
Is it too late for me to become a $5 backer?
:P
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
No, it's not.
Apparently, a $5 pledge gives read-only access to the backers forums. This was not immediately apparent in the Kickstarter rewards descriptions, but is stated clearly in the PayPal pledging area.
Trolling the Trolls +5
well you're all safe, apparantly they won't accept a 3rd party, out of country check even if it's co-signed by Sven the janitor at the local Pizza barn (the check was wrote by his cousin Juergen for a wedding gift to Sven that didn't get used because he found out just before the wedding that his fiance Lucinda used to be call Ralph) Anyhow, I don't know what lengths I have to go through to give this title support, so I'm not going to bother anymore! :P
Good luck with your game
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Thanks. Also hope your check checks out fine. Give Ralph my regards.
oh I'll leave that to you. He/she is a CU backer. More his/her style of game. Can't knock a person for finding a place where they feel they fit in.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Thanks for your reply.
Then for what it's worth - I have a suggestion for you (you probably already know this anyway)
Endorsement from you, personally, could make a huge difference here.
So, if there is a critic on your forums who is actually providing useful feedback a post by you saying "Yes, I hear you, thank you for the feedback, it is a big help and we will look into it further...I always read your comments because you raise some good points." can change the attitude of the whole community.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Constructive criticism is always more useful to developers than blind adoration. The smart ones know this and will step in and make that clear if all criticism is being shut down by sycophants.
These aren't just alpha/beta testers, these are the people funding your game.
While strong insults and abusive behaviour etc Im sure no one can have any real complaints with, you can't stop them complaining....they are paying for this game to be made, you have to listen to them. Gag them at your peril, you asked them for money, you have to put up with a certain amount more than you'd usually tolerate.
Caution about overly strong forum moderation, it could be the death of your game before it ever reaches beta.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy