Meh some people have Jobs and families these days. not everyone is a able to put life on hold for 12-16 hour just to do a dungeon raid. Not everyone wants to ruin their lives or the health like old school EQ used to do being a second job requiring 8-12 hours a day several days a week.
Sure I guess its fine if you don't have a job, and don't have any family or loved ones (girlfriend etc) However I think for most of us we grew up or simply got smarter about how much we could play before it started messing with out RL. Not a popular opinion in the old school crowd i know
^^^ This. It was the invention of jobs and families that killed MMOs.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Meh some people have Jobs and families these days. not everyone is a able to put life on hold for 12-16 hour just to do a dungeon raid. Not everyone wants to ruin their lives or the health like old school EQ used to do being a second job requiring 8-12 hours a day several days a week.
Sure I guess its fine if you don't have a job, and don't have any family or loved ones (girlfriend etc) However I think for most of us we grew up or simply got smarter about how much we could play before it started messing with out RL. Not a popular opinion in the old school crowd i know
^^^ This. It was the invention of jobs and families that killed MMOs.
nah .. they force the devs to make MMOs into better games.
Personally, career and family are always more important than mere games.
Meh some people have Jobs and families these days. not everyone is a able to put life on hold for 12-16 hour just to do a dungeon raid. Not everyone wants to ruin their lives or the health like old school EQ used to do being a second job requiring 8-12 hours a day several days a week.
Sure I guess its fine if you don't have a job, and don't have any family or loved ones (girlfriend etc) However I think for most of us we grew up or simply got smarter about how much we could play before it started messing with out RL. Not a popular opinion in the old school crowd i know
^^^ This. It was the invention of jobs and families that killed MMOs.
nah .. they force the devs to make MMOs into better games.
Personally, career and family are always more important than mere games.
LOL
And where are these "better" mmos? All i see from catering to the "time starved" casual is a bunch of easy-to-play-beat-in-a-couple-weeks trash clones.
Almost any .. wow, dcuo, lotro, heck .. even maple story .. are better games than the old long grind MMO.
You confuse quality and quantity. I would much rather have a fun 3 weeks MMO, than a boring 2 year one.
Meh some people have Jobs and families these days. not everyone is a able to put life on hold for 12-16 hour just to do a dungeon raid. Not everyone wants to ruin their lives or the health like old school EQ used to do being a second job requiring 8-12 hours a day several days a week.
Sure I guess its fine if you don't have a job, and don't have any family or loved ones (girlfriend etc) However I think for most of us we grew up or simply got smarter about how much we could play before it started messing with out RL. Not a popular opinion in the old school crowd i know
^^^ This. It was the invention of jobs and families that killed MMOs.
You do not have to be disrepectful to their opinion.
And in a sense, Winter is spot on. In the early days of MMO's EQ and previous(even as far back as the days of MUDs), most gamers had a stereotype that was spot on. Anti-social(when not as their computer of course) nerds. Whether or not everyone agrees that the previous stereotype is true, the stereotype was there. But nowadays, MMO's touch all walks of life(ranging from sex to country). People that don't even know much about gaming know what WoW is, but if you asked them what UO was, most would have no idea.
And why is that? Because WoW mainstreamed MMO's. No longer did you need days of waiting in line to get your time at fighting an epic boss to give you 1 of 15 pieces you need to make your epic weapon. No longer did guilds need to have 200 people in it to make sure you saw all the content(more so true after 15/20 man raids evolved). The old school games catered to hardcore and lots of time. Think of all the stories of how EQ ruined someone's marriage or life due to the obsession. Can't recall hearing DCUO doing that.
So while the small majority of people may miss the old days, the business model leads the bigger companies to mainstream mmo's. But there are still plenty of small companies who are trying to keep hardcore mentalities alive, like EVE and the upcoming Camelot Unchained, but don't expect any of them to ever have millions of "real" players.
I'm an older player myself, as I started with EQ and Shadowbane. Shadowbane was the furthest thing from instant gratification there was... lol. I remember making a character, messing up a skill point and the having to scrap the character and start over haha.
No wonder if failes. I would much rather have D3's system ...
Actually, free "respecs" and the even more flexible systems coming out in games today were still very uncommon until....'05 maybe? Then it became the trendy mass-copied mechanic and spread to pretty much everywhere.
If you track major systems that really affected the entire gaming universe, most of the 'dumbing down' of MMO systems resulted from sensible responses to a company bleeding frustrated-player accounts.
Why don't we pay hourly any more? Why aren't we still stuck with a single charater slot, or 10-item (what your toon is wearing) and no 'lockers', or awkward encumberance systems? Why aren't we still stuck with a character's original appearance forever? Why did quests become so common, and popular? How many years did it take until the first xp for pvp was awarded?
"Dumbing down" is code for "QoL change, any variety".
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Meh some people have Jobs and families these days. not everyone is a able to put life on hold for 12-16 hour just to do a dungeon raid. Not everyone wants to ruin their lives or the health like old school EQ used to do being a second job requiring 8-12 hours a day several days a week.
Sure I guess its fine if you don't have a job, and don't have any family or loved ones (girlfriend etc) However I think for most of us we grew up or simply got smarter about how much we could play before it started messing with out RL. Not a popular opinion in the old school crowd i know
^^^ This. It was the invention of jobs and families that killed MMOs.
nah .. they force the devs to make MMOs into better games.
Personally, career and family are always more important than mere games.
Of course they are...my point? It was the same back then, not just "these days."
The older MMOs just hadn't invented all the convenience features that are part of the newer generation of MMOs. The vast majority of these features are....err...convenient and that's not a bad thing.
A lot of people equate the inconvenience of the pioneer MMOs with "quality." I'm not one of those. There was one hell of a lot more wasted time in Asheron's Call. Some would say "But that was fine. We used that time to socialize." Well now we have IM, text messages, "face time," FB, Twitter, Instagram, etc. none of those were part of the social landscape back in the early MMO days.
Meeting someone from far, far away in an MMO is not the unique and ever so cool experience it was in 1999. We have moved on...and so have the games.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Meh some people have Jobs and families these days. not everyone is a able to put life on hold for 12-16 hour just to do a dungeon raid. Not everyone wants to ruin their lives or the health like old school EQ used to do being a second job requiring 8-12 hours a day several days a week.
Sure I guess its fine if you don't have a job, and don't have any family or loved ones (girlfriend etc) However I think for most of us we grew up or simply got smarter about how much we could play before it started messing with out RL. Not a popular opinion in the old school crowd i know
^^^ This. It was the invention of jobs and families that killed MMOs.
You do not have to be disrepectful to their opinion.
And in a sense, Winter is spot on. In the early days of MMO's EQ and previous(even as far back as the days of MUDs), most gamers had a stereotype that was spot on. Anti-social(when not as their computer of course) nerds. Whether or not everyone agrees that the previous stereotype is true, the stereotype was there. But nowadays, MMO's touch all walks of life(ranging from sex to country). People that don't even know much about gaming know what WoW is, but if you asked them what UO was, most would have no idea.
And why is that? Because WoW mainstreamed MMO's. No longer did you need days of waiting in line to get your time at fighting an epic boss to give you 1 of 15 pieces you need to make your epic weapon. No longer did guilds need to have 200 people in it to make sure you saw all the content(more so true after 15/20 man raids evolved). The old school games catered to hardcore and lots of time. Think of all the stories of how EQ ruined someone's marriage or life due to the obsession. Can't recall hearing DCUO doing that.
So while the small majority of people may miss the old days, the business model leads the bigger companies to mainstream mmo's. But there are still plenty of small companies who are trying to keep hardcore mentalities alive, like EVE and the upcoming Camelot Unchained, but don't expect any of them to ever have millions of "real" players.
Pointing out nonsense is disrespectful? He is certainly not "spot-on" about families and jobs being a new thing "these days." I thought this was an old fart thread. I had a job and a family back in the UO/EQ/AC days...didn't you?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Meeting someone from far, far away in an MMO is not the unique and ever so cool experience it was in 1999. We have moved on...and so have the games.
That i think is right too. I wouldn't care less about meeting people online .. have done it so many times. It has become a drag. I would much rather play an interesting game.
Meh some people have Jobs and families these days. not everyone is a able to put life on hold for 12-16 hour just to do a dungeon raid. Not everyone wants to ruin their lives or the health like old school EQ used to do being a second job requiring 8-12 hours a day several days a week.
Sure I guess its fine if you don't have a job, and don't have any family or loved ones (girlfriend etc) However I think for most of us we grew up or simply got smarter about how much we could play before it started messing with out RL. Not a popular opinion in the old school crowd i know
^^^ This. It was the invention of jobs and families that killed MMOs.
nah .. they force the devs to make MMOs into better games.
Personally, career and family are always more important than mere games.
LOL
And where are these "better" mmos? All i see from catering to the "time starved" casual is a bunch of easy-to-play-beat-in-a-couple-weeks trash clones.
Almost any .. wow, dcuo, lotro, heck .. even maple story .. are better games than the old long grind MMO.
You confuse quality and quantity. I would much rather have a fun 3 weeks MMO, than a boring 2 year one.
Boring to you. There's that entitlement again. "I find it boring, so it must not be done!".
There's a reason those "old boring games" like EQ and UO are still here while many of your "better" mmos are either already gone or ready to be put to pasture.
Yes. The reason is that some people hate change to such an extent that they're willing to continue to pay money to fix their old Chevy Corvair instead of "taking a chance" on a new Honda Civic.
You're just throwing the "self entitlement" buzzword around to try to trash his opinion because your opinion is different. Guess what? They're both opinions and I happen to share his, not youre.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Yes. The reason is that some people hate change to such an extent that they're willing to continue to pay money to fix their old Chevy Corvair instead of "taking a chance" on a new Honda Civic.
You're just throwing the "self entitlement" buzzword around to try to trash his opinion because your opinion is different. Guess what? They're both opinions and I happen to share his, not youre.
It's more like fixing a 69 Mustang instead of "taking a chance" on a Hyundai.
Boring to you. There's that entitlement again. "I find it boring, so it must not be done!".
There's a reason those "old boring games" like EQ and UO are still here while many of your "better" mmos are either already gone or ready to be put to pasture.
Sure, we're totally ready for EQ3.
The race for "smallest market share vs. longevity (still limping along)" bragging rights ratio will continue.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Yes. The reason is that some people hate change to such an extent that they're willing to continue to pay money to fix their old Chevy Corvair instead of "taking a chance" on a new Honda Civic.
You're just throwing the "self entitlement" buzzword around to try to trash his opinion because your opinion is different. Guess what? They're both opinions and I happen to share his, not youre.
It's more like fixing a 69 Mustang instead of "taking a chance" on a Hyundai.
Hey! Don't you start bad-mouthing Hyundai. My wife loves her Elantra
I liked the old MMOs back then and I like the new ones these days...I guess that makes me weird, eh?
When I remember the corpse runs in AC to try to retreive my valuable and rare equipment only to get killed again and leave more equipment behind and then got friends to help me get the 2 coprses so I could continue going where I was going in the first place 2 hours later, the first word I think of is not "quality" nor is it "uber" nor "elite"... the word that comes to mind is annoyingfreakingwasteoftime.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Yes. The reason is that some people hate change to such an extent that they're willing to continue to pay money to fix their old Chevy Corvair instead of "taking a chance" on a new Honda Civic.
You're just throwing the "self entitlement" buzzword around to try to trash his opinion because your opinion is different. Guess what? They're both opinions and I happen to share his, not youre.
It's more like fixing a 69 Mustang instead of "taking a chance" on a Hyundai.
Time consuming does not autotranslate into immersive. Neither does it mean something is more difficult. Dungeon runs that you blitz trough in 30 min are not fun nor immersive thou. Neither does it feel rewarding reaching max craftinglevel in half a day from the ah/brooker etc. How can players get a sense of achievement without having to put in effort? But difficulty can be many things besides extremely timeconsuming task. That said, on rail MMO, with quests that 7 year old completes without breaking a sweat (see current WoW) is an insult to intelligent players looking for a quality gameworld with a real challenge. How is it even possible to get immersed without challenge. All it gets you is into a sort of meditative state doing repetative task. Dont get mé started on questhubs and q givers that are so close to eachother that you have to be an idiot to miss anything (which also goes for the task of completing the q's themselves) placed in the zones that feels like pearls on a string. If you find this immersive, if you feel as an integral part of such a gameworld, it just amazes me.
Originally posted by Gnarv How can players get a sense of achievement without having to put in effort?
By dressing up the illusion better?
Clicking on a mob for 1 year to get to max level .. is a waste of time. The only "achievement" is an illusion brought by the huge amount of time wasted .. and the time is not even necessarily fun.
Take a SP game like Deus Ex. They dressed up the illusion well. You feel like you "accomplish" something while having fun. MMOs should learn from that.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
there is too many games, rather than virtual worlds, to ever make the old fashioned MMOs popular again, in that way "old farts" is a dying breed...since only very few to begin with want a game that take a heavy amount of time to be compareable with other players...not even competitve but compareable.
not to say I wouldnt want a "real MMO" personally, as do like to think of MMOs as a social thing, but have shot a white arrow after that though...since if any developer makes a MMO that takes even just 1 hour to get into, then it will have a very small following. Am excited to see EQnext though, even if Im certain they wont add, financially stupid, things like waits for boats, long travel distances, real money sinks, corpse runs and what else one could think of that would force people to spend time or work together.....since if you did most would just leave without giving the game a chance....the selection is simply too big for that, online games aint special enough anymore
Originally posted by Gnarv How can players get a sense of achievement without having to put in effort?
By dressing up the illusion better?
Clicking on a mob for 1 year to get to max level .. is a waste of time. The only "achievement" is an illusion brought by the huge amount of time wasted .. and the time is not even necessarily fun.
Take a SP game like Deus Ex. They dressed up the illusion well. You feel like you "accomplish" something while having fun. MMOs should learn from that.
Not to mention that there's a strong financial incentive in sub-model MMOs to make achievements time consuming for no better reason than to get more months out of you.
The key to good MMO design is finding a good balance between effort/luck and rewards while at the same time removing the unnecesary time wasters.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Gnarv How can players get a sense of achievement without having to put in effort?
By dressing up the illusion better?
Clicking on a mob for 1 year to get to max level .. is a waste of time. The only "achievement" is an illusion brought by the huge amount of time wasted .. and the time is not even necessarily fun.
Take a SP game like Deus Ex. They dressed up the illusion well. You feel like you "accomplish" something while having fun. MMOs should learn from that.
I did infact play Dues Ex many years ago. While I at the time found it a decent gaming experience, not the least due to the replayability, I personally did not find it to be anywhere near as complex and engaging as MMO's. It is just hard to compare a singleplayer/shooter (i belive you could play engineer as well) to a MMO for many reasons. Anyways I appreciate that developers should work on creating a better illusion instead of punishing players with a long grind.
But what do you mean by illusion? Dues Ex wasnt that hard, well with the character choice I choose back then and I tried both paths.. I think (as far as i remember there was a good guys / evil guys sorta choise - maybe more /shrug). What made that game interesting at the time? The story? The different paths? Anyways... To me you can create all the illusions that you want, if it dosnt result in you having to think carefully, to work togehter like atleast a small well oiled machinery and in that you should have fast reactions to be succesful in a dungeonrun, it wont have the same impact on the risk/reward factor. What illusion can be created to mimic risk/reward? Dying that dungeon not being able to finish it.. this time.. but there is always a next time, next week, next month.
My character died in there, we did the best we could but it wasnt good enuff, I didnt know the dungeon so we were doomed to fail, and so we should be. What is wrong with having to spend a few weeks learning an encounter? How can developers create this feeling of achievement linked to risk, loss and effort by creating an illusion? I really doubt that this is possible at all. It is at our most difficult moments in life that we have to chance to achieve the most I would guess. Here in this context the risk is at its maximum, the failiure of our actions will be the most severe and the effort put in overcomming these changes has to be exceptional - but the reward for being succesful is significant and lifechanging in the most possitive of ways. This of cause just serves as an example and is an extreme.
For the record, I am merried have children and a fulltime job. I dont have time to sit in front of my pc every evening, my wife would axe me verbally untill a state of absolute apathy. However I cant play a straight from the nipple MMO ever again - it is a boring concept and it also in some cases attracts the most horrible steampile of aggressive degrading, insecure, arrogant, stupid, immature crowd imaginable. Personally I cant bare it.
I just don't understand the desire of trying to get the feeling of'achievement' in playing a Video Game. I treat them as disposable entertainment products.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Originally posted by Normandy7 Agreed. The younger generation wants the instant gratification instead of earning it. They think it is called grind when you don't accomplish something within 2 hours. MMOs are about the journey to the destination and if it takes me over a year to reach that then so be it. Atleast I know my money was well spent. Today it is about paying to be super powerful and clear the game in a weekend. Pretty pathetic!
You hit the nail on the head Normandy7.....
What mmo do you currently play that has that good journey feel to it?
Originally posted by jpnz I just don't understand the desire of trying to get the feeling of'achievement' in playing a Video Game. I treat them as disposable entertainment products.
No offense but your commitment to these games does not sound very deep then. That is perfectly fine but your passion towards these games aint the same as, for instance the rpg player living and breathing their character dreaming it being part of a the gameworld. I have always felt commitment and desire to achieve in most games I played since c64 - with or without company. But I guess many dont feel the same. I dont understand that :-) Why are you playing then if not for the sense of progressing trough work, teamwork, exploration, curiosity etc etc etc? For the social side of things? To just waste an hour of your time? If you dont get attached to your character in some way, what is the charm of playing a rpg variant. And personally I am not a roleplayer I might add, but that does not mean I dont get attached to my character in a varitude of ways.
My primary desire is to be entertained. That's what video games are for me. To be fun. I find story to be fun. Imaginary loot / levels for epeen? Not so much.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
O.P., we number many millions so no we aren't dying. But we aren't as attractive as a target market compared to the next generationm, who are more easily parted with their money; and who are less demanding when it comes to product quality.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by jpnz My primary desire is to be entertained. That's what video games are for me. To be fun. I find story to be fun. Imaginary loot / levels for epeen? Not so much.
For you to be intertained there need to be something intertaining. So you say that you only play these games for the story? Then I must point you towards the experience of reading a book since it generally will be allot better written and you wont get derailed by having to navigate your character around in a virtual world. Anyways I did not say I was in it for the loot. Yes I do find it important that you as a character stand out a bit, can I live without? certainly, as long as the game is challenging i can live with somewhat generic armour. Can I live without a challenging gameworld? No, why? To show off to somebody that I dont even know? nah not me, maybe some feel that way. I guess that a shiny piece of special armour can bring a sligth sense of achivement but that is not what it is about. It is about being challenged, with a group of friendly players deep inside a place where you risk loosing a couple of hours of work. It is about being immersed under these conditions staying up 1.5 hours (yea this was alot longer once but I am too old for this now) because you just 'have' to push on tonight with this group where it is going so well and the players seem to generally care for the experience and maybe even you. Nothing is just being handed to you here, you have to earn it. Weekends dosnt mean a damn thing to people without work, to the people working hard all week however it is a totally different matter - cause they earned it.
Comments
^^^ This. It was the invention of jobs and families that killed MMOs.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
nah .. they force the devs to make MMOs into better games.
Personally, career and family are always more important than mere games.
Almost any .. wow, dcuo, lotro, heck .. even maple story .. are better games than the old long grind MMO.
You confuse quality and quantity. I would much rather have a fun 3 weeks MMO, than a boring 2 year one.
You do not have to be disrepectful to their opinion.
And in a sense, Winter is spot on. In the early days of MMO's EQ and previous(even as far back as the days of MUDs), most gamers had a stereotype that was spot on. Anti-social(when not as their computer of course) nerds. Whether or not everyone agrees that the previous stereotype is true, the stereotype was there. But nowadays, MMO's touch all walks of life(ranging from sex to country). People that don't even know much about gaming know what WoW is, but if you asked them what UO was, most would have no idea.
And why is that? Because WoW mainstreamed MMO's. No longer did you need days of waiting in line to get your time at fighting an epic boss to give you 1 of 15 pieces you need to make your epic weapon. No longer did guilds need to have 200 people in it to make sure you saw all the content(more so true after 15/20 man raids evolved). The old school games catered to hardcore and lots of time. Think of all the stories of how EQ ruined someone's marriage or life due to the obsession. Can't recall hearing DCUO doing that.
So while the small majority of people may miss the old days, the business model leads the bigger companies to mainstream mmo's. But there are still plenty of small companies who are trying to keep hardcore mentalities alive, like EVE and the upcoming Camelot Unchained, but don't expect any of them to ever have millions of "real" players.
Actually, free "respecs" and the even more flexible systems coming out in games today were still very uncommon until....'05 maybe? Then it became the trendy mass-copied mechanic and spread to pretty much everywhere.
If you track major systems that really affected the entire gaming universe, most of the 'dumbing down' of MMO systems resulted from sensible responses to a company bleeding frustrated-player accounts.
Why don't we pay hourly any more? Why aren't we still stuck with a single charater slot, or 10-item (what your toon is wearing) and no 'lockers', or awkward encumberance systems? Why aren't we still stuck with a character's original appearance forever? Why did quests become so common, and popular? How many years did it take until the first xp for pvp was awarded?
"Dumbing down" is code for "QoL change, any variety".
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Of course they are...my point? It was the same back then, not just "these days."
The older MMOs just hadn't invented all the convenience features that are part of the newer generation of MMOs. The vast majority of these features are....err...convenient and that's not a bad thing.
A lot of people equate the inconvenience of the pioneer MMOs with "quality." I'm not one of those. There was one hell of a lot more wasted time in Asheron's Call. Some would say "But that was fine. We used that time to socialize." Well now we have IM, text messages, "face time," FB, Twitter, Instagram, etc. none of those were part of the social landscape back in the early MMO days.
Meeting someone from far, far away in an MMO is not the unique and ever so cool experience it was in 1999. We have moved on...and so have the games.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Pointing out nonsense is disrespectful? He is certainly not "spot-on" about families and jobs being a new thing "these days." I thought this was an old fart thread. I had a job and a family back in the UO/EQ/AC days...didn't you?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
That i think is right too. I wouldn't care less about meeting people online .. have done it so many times. It has become a drag. I would much rather play an interesting game.
Yes. The reason is that some people hate change to such an extent that they're willing to continue to pay money to fix their old Chevy Corvair instead of "taking a chance" on a new Honda Civic.
You're just throwing the "self entitlement" buzzword around to try to trash his opinion because your opinion is different. Guess what? They're both opinions and I happen to share his, not youre.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It's more like fixing a 69 Mustang instead of "taking a chance" on a Hyundai.
Sure, we're totally ready for EQ3.
The race for "smallest market share vs. longevity (still limping along)" bragging rights ratio will continue.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Hey! Don't you start bad-mouthing Hyundai. My wife loves her Elantra
I liked the old MMOs back then and I like the new ones these days...I guess that makes me weird, eh?
When I remember the corpse runs in AC to try to retreive my valuable and rare equipment only to get killed again and leave more equipment behind and then got friends to help me get the 2 coprses so I could continue going where I was going in the first place 2 hours later, the first word I think of is not "quality" nor is it "uber" nor "elite"... the word that comes to mind is annoyingfreakingwasteoftime.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Only in your personal opinion.
By dressing up the illusion better?
Clicking on a mob for 1 year to get to max level .. is a waste of time. The only "achievement" is an illusion brought by the huge amount of time wasted .. and the time is not even necessarily fun.
Take a SP game like Deus Ex. They dressed up the illusion well. You feel like you "accomplish" something while having fun. MMOs should learn from that.
...2 posts, on a seven year old account... ...
How do they do that? IImpressive.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
there is too many games, rather than virtual worlds, to ever make the old fashioned MMOs popular again, in that way "old farts" is a dying breed...since only very few to begin with want a game that take a heavy amount of time to be compareable with other players...not even competitve but compareable.
not to say I wouldnt want a "real MMO" personally, as do like to think of MMOs as a social thing, but have shot a white arrow after that though...since if any developer makes a MMO that takes even just 1 hour to get into, then it will have a very small following. Am excited to see EQnext though, even if Im certain they wont add, financially stupid, things like waits for boats, long travel distances, real money sinks, corpse runs and what else one could think of that would force people to spend time or work together.....since if you did most would just leave without giving the game a chance....the selection is simply too big for that, online games aint special enough anymore
Not to mention that there's a strong financial incentive in sub-model MMOs to make achievements time consuming for no better reason than to get more months out of you.
The key to good MMO design is finding a good balance between effort/luck and rewards while at the same time removing the unnecesary time wasters.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
You hit the nail on the head Normandy7.....
What mmo do you currently play that has that good journey feel to it?
No offense but your commitment to these games does not sound very deep then. That is perfectly fine but your passion towards these games aint the same as, for instance the rpg player living and breathing their character dreaming it being part of a the gameworld. I have always felt commitment and desire to achieve in most games I played since c64 - with or without company. But I guess many dont feel the same. I dont understand that :-) Why are you playing then if not for the sense of progressing trough work, teamwork, exploration, curiosity etc etc etc? For the social side of things? To just waste an hour of your time? If you dont get attached to your character in some way, what is the charm of playing a rpg variant. And personally I am not a roleplayer I might add, but that does not mean I dont get attached to my character in a varitude of ways.
Imaginary loot / levels for epeen? Not so much.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
O.P., we number many millions so no we aren't dying. But we aren't as attractive as a target market compared to the next generationm, who are more easily parted with their money; and who are less demanding when it comes to product quality.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
For you to be intertained there need to be something intertaining. So you say that you only play these games for the story? Then I must point you towards the experience of reading a book since it generally will be allot better written and you wont get derailed by having to navigate your character around in a virtual world. Anyways I did not say I was in it for the loot. Yes I do find it important that you as a character stand out a bit, can I live without? certainly, as long as the game is challenging i can live with somewhat generic armour. Can I live without a challenging gameworld? No, why? To show off to somebody that I dont even know? nah not me, maybe some feel that way. I guess that a shiny piece of special armour can bring a sligth sense of achivement but that is not what it is about. It is about being challenged, with a group of friendly players deep inside a place where you risk loosing a couple of hours of work. It is about being immersed under these conditions staying up 1.5 hours (yea this was alot longer once but I am too old for this now) because you just 'have' to push on tonight with this group where it is going so well and the players seem to generally care for the experience and maybe even you. Nothing is just being handed to you here, you have to earn it. Weekends dosnt mean a damn thing to people without work, to the people working hard all week however it is a totally different matter - cause they earned it.