All it really takes to know this game is P2W is looking at the nightmare +6 purple weapons (best in game) you can only get from the bar trade-in merchant (bars being only obtained from opening Nightmare lock boxes, which of course you must use the cash shop to purchase keys for)
Originally posted by Margulis All it really takes to know this game is P2W is looking at the nightmare +6 purple weapons (best in game) you can only get from the bar trade-in merchant (bars being only obtained from opening Nightmare lock boxes, which of course you must use the cash shop to purchase keys for)
Originally posted by Margulis All it really takes to know this game is P2W is looking at the nightmare +6 purple weapons (best in game) you can only get from the bar trade-in merchant (bars being only obtained from opening Nightmare lock boxes, which of course you must use the cash shop to purchase keys for)
nice point m8
Ignorant people ... you can purchase purple weapons and armor via PvP rewards (no zen, no ad). And Manolios, man seriously i have been watching your comments in many NW threads and you keep pointing out that "This game is P2W" since you are not interested in this game why don't you do all of us a favor and stop replying in NW threads?
So, everyone can make several 100K AD per day from trading and selling stuff on the AH ? And where does the AD come from then ? Somewhere those 100K's of AD have to enter the game...
And everyone in this thread who claim to be earning these vast amounts of AD daily and high-level runes/enchantments, you are all average players with day-jobs, family and friends, so you are all playing 2 to 3 hours per day, right ?
Now, if that is the case, Cryptic will either soon be shutting down the game or tripling the ZEN Store prices, because they'll be bankrupt if everyone can "easily" have the best of everything in the first week after launch...
There's no such thing as 'Pay To Win'. You can't 'win' at MMOs. Where did PTW even come from?!
In fact, when did mashing buttons in a video game faster than others become a measure of achievement in life?
Neverwinter is a perfectly decent game if you are looking for something simple, casual, fun with friends or PUGs, but without spending a monthly fee. Also, Cryptic have thrown a bone to the roleplaying community, with the Foundry.
Neverwinter doesn't really seem to be intended for the hardcore raid/pvp community.
And for those with some creativity, or a group of old-skool D&D buddies, you can potentially have years of fun playing the Foundry.
All this 'waaaaaah! Zen stuff is too expensive!' nonsense is pitiful. If that extra 0.8% is important to you, then I am sorry, and I hope you can find other things to enjoy in life.
So, everyone can make several 100K AD per day from trading and selling stuff on the AH ? And where does the AD come from then ? Somewhere those 100K's of AD have to enter the game...
And everyone in this thread who claim to be earning these vast amounts of AD daily and high-level runes/enchantments, you are all average players with day-jobs, family and friends, so you are all playing 2 to 3 hours per day, right ?
Now, if that is the case, Cryptic will either soon be shutting down the game or tripling the ZEN Store prices, because they'll be bankrupt if everyone can "easily" have the best of everything in the first week after launch...
There's a cap in how many ADs you can make per day yourself, the cap does not apply to trading, there a sinks for AD in-game which take ADs out of circulation so while you can earn 100ks AD through trade only a small amount of those will be left over for Zen purchases at the end of the day so the people who keep trading Zen for ADs get a fair deal, the AH prices maintain their overall stability price wise and what you have to do is to get the items and trade em on for ADs. The issue with the game is having the right amount of AD sinks in the game to regulate the amount of ADs and prevent rampant inflation of AD-linked prices.
There's no such thing as 'Pay To Win'. You can't 'win' at MMOs. Where did PTW even come from?!
In fact, when did mashing buttons in a video game faster than others become a measure of achievement in life?
Neverwinter is a perfectly decent game if you are looking for something simple, casual, fun with friends or PUGs, but without spending a monthly fee. Also, Cryptic have thrown a bone to the roleplaying community, with the Foundry.
Neverwinter doesn't really seem to be intended for the hardcore raid/pvp community.
And for those with some creativity, or a group of old-skool D&D buddies, you can potentially have years of fun playing the Foundry.
All this 'waaaaaah! Zen stuff is too expensive!' nonsense is pitiful. If that extra 0.8% is important to you, then I am sorry, and I hope you can find other things to enjoy in life.
Sure you can win if a game has pvp. Player 1 has basic kit, Player 2 has the uber bad-ass kit he has spent a fortune on, if the store bought kit is so good it gives him a big enough advantage against Player 1 that all other things being equal he will win all the time because of the edge his kit gives him then it is quite simply pay to win.
If I kill you, by definition I win.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
pretty much if your a competitive pvp player it is P2W other wise if your a pve person you will enjoy game ill probably stop playing this just like i did with allods. And to all these people saying if your skilled better, the pay to win don't matter stfu you admit its P2W and argue its not lol wtf plain and simple pvp in this game is pay to win.
This is exactly like STO and I got to say, once I was max level, I was quite happy to chip in a little 20$ to get some premium items + with all the dilithium that I had made, it nearly gave me another 20$ worth of Zen. Got myself the Auverdine ship and lots of cool toys!
Neverwinter appears to be similar. You can casually get yourself to max level without too much hassle. Maybe a little 5$ or 10$ down the line but that's what? 10$ every month or so?
At max level, maybe put another 25$ to get some really good stuff and you're set for a long time. The rest can be grinded the good old fashion way.
So ok, you're spending money but compared to a game where: 60$ the box, 15$ a month... I'm happy to just spend a little 10$ here and there to get exactly what I want.
I agree people blow the pay to win meme out of proportion. I disagree that capitalizing on impatience is exploitive. You're moralizing and laying the blame on the proprietor. The responsibility is in the hands of the consumer.
Every sort of service and business exploits impatience. People want commodities and services because we're too lazy, impatient, or unable to do for ourselves. Time is precious and has a real world value.
Make wise decisions with your time and money. If someone wants to shortcut because that works for them then they shouldn't be maligned or disparaged. If someone has a lot of time then the option to achieve all that without spending money is a great opportunity and they also shouldn't looked down upon for that.
The fundamental problem with these threads and this line of thinking is that it focuses on what other people are doing instead of what the individual is doing. If people would mind their own business, to an extent, and stop validating themselves against the achievements of others, then we would have far fewer discussions like this.
I don't want to turn this into a long debate because I know right away neither of us will change our minds, so let me just say I'll disagree with you, but not because I think you're wrong.
Simply put, I don't view the cash shop as an equivalent of a service or commodity that finds a market in offering a convenience; I see it more akin to a casino that uses a variety of strategies to target a specific subset of the population who are incapable of making wise financial decisions. Both do appeal to impatience with the promise of instant gratification, but to varying degrees and returns.
Of course, we should respect people's individuality and the decisions they make, no matter how unwise, but speaking up for someone else - whether it be to defend their right to self determination or to bring attention to a questionable business practice - is also just as important.
If nothing else, speaking up about the PW cash shop can make people think about it and encourage them to make a more informed decision. Nothing wrong with that, really.
After playing I realised it isn't so bad and changed my mind. At first I was like the usual P2W haters. After fighting against the people that have spent money though and grouping with them, I now know that all they've done is lost a lot of money and have none of the game left to play... and are certainly not more powerful than my characters.
Oh, thank you, that's exactly the point I've been making, but few people seem to be able to comprehend.
It's a cash shop designed to exploit people's impatience. Long grinding times coupled with the high price of instant gratification encourage that behavior you just described, it's a strategy to get a year's (or more) worth of "subscription" money in a short period of time. This is massively beneficial to the company, but only benefits the player if they play long enough for that investment to pay for itself - but like you said, there's none of the game left to play, they're likely to get bored and leave, thus not getting their money's worth.
I think it's partially the thread's title to blame, but too many people are obsessing over the "pay to win" argument and ignoring the underlying exploitative nature of the shop simply because it doesn't affect them.
I agree people blow the pay to win meme out of proportion. I disagree that capitalizing on impatience is exploitive. You're moralizing and laying the blame on the proprietor. The responsibility is in the hands of the consumer.
Every sort of service and business exploits impatience. People want commodities and services because we're too lazy, impatient, or unable to do for ourselves. Time is precious and has a real world value.
Make wise decisions with your time and money. If someone wants to shortcut because that works for them then they shouldn't be maligned or disparaged. If someone has a lot of time then the option to achieve all that without spending money is a great opportunity and they also shouldn't looked down upon for that.
The fundamental problem with these threads and this line of thinking is that it focuses on what other people are doing instead of what the individual is doing. If people would mind their own business, to an extent, and stop validating themselves against the achievements of others, then we would have far fewer discussions like this.
You've missed the entire point, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not complaining about the fact that I have to "pay for convenience". I'm complaining about HOW MUCH I have to pay for that convenience.
And I'm complaining ever more bitterly about the fact that it will cost me 2 or 3 or 4 times more to enjoy the same "play experience" in NWO (or most F2P games) as I would in an old-fashioned AAA MMO with a monthly sub.
But that is of course the prime reason why most games are hopping on the F2P bandwagon. They make more money per month off the average player that way.
You make it sound like everyone around you is buying all this cool stuff, and you are the only one being left out. Are you THAT elitist that you feel like you need to keep up with the top 5% of the player base?
Bottom line PVP can and is pay to win. PVE it does not matter and can be played without a penny. I bought guardian pack but im thinking i would have been better off just buying Zen instead because i don't care about mounts and cosmetic. Sucks because i enjoyed the game till i found out about the P2W part i love pvp and i wont let a game make me hate it. If you want to grind AD its like filling up a bathtub with your spit its possible yes well atleast i think it is idk ask the sucker with no life doing it.
Originally posted by kriminal66 Bottom line PVP can and is pay to win. PVE it does not matter and can be played without a penny. I bought guardian pack but im thinking i would have been better off just buying Zen instead because i don't care about mounts and cosmetic. Sucks because i enjoyed the game till i found out about the P2W part i love pvp and i wont let a game make me hate it. If you want to grind AD its like filling up a bathtub with your spit its possible yes well atleast i think it is idk ask the sucker with no life doing it.
Seriously, PWE better rework their cash shop items then because I'm coming top 1-3 in most level 60 PvP matches and haven't spent a penny on the game.
Don't knock it til you've tried it.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Comments
nice point m8
Ignorant people ... you can purchase purple weapons and armor via PvP rewards (no zen, no ad). And Manolios, man seriously i have been watching your comments in many NW threads and you keep pointing out that "This game is P2W" since you are not interested in this game why don't you do all of us a favor and stop replying in NW threads?
So, everyone can make several 100K AD per day from trading and selling stuff on the AH ? And where does the AD come from then ? Somewhere those 100K's of AD have to enter the game...
And everyone in this thread who claim to be earning these vast amounts of AD daily and high-level runes/enchantments, you are all average players with day-jobs, family and friends, so you are all playing 2 to 3 hours per day, right ?
Now, if that is the case, Cryptic will either soon be shutting down the game or tripling the ZEN Store prices, because they'll be bankrupt if everyone can "easily" have the best of everything in the first week after launch...
There's no such thing as 'Pay To Win'. You can't 'win' at MMOs. Where did PTW even come from?!
In fact, when did mashing buttons in a video game faster than others become a measure of achievement in life?
Neverwinter is a perfectly decent game if you are looking for something simple, casual, fun with friends or PUGs, but without spending a monthly fee. Also, Cryptic have thrown a bone to the roleplaying community, with the Foundry.
Neverwinter doesn't really seem to be intended for the hardcore raid/pvp community.
And for those with some creativity, or a group of old-skool D&D buddies, you can potentially have years of fun playing the Foundry.
All this 'waaaaaah! Zen stuff is too expensive!' nonsense is pitiful. If that extra 0.8% is important to you, then I am sorry, and I hope you can find other things to enjoy in life.
There's a cap in how many ADs you can make per day yourself, the cap does not apply to trading, there a sinks for AD in-game which take ADs out of circulation so while you can earn 100ks AD through trade only a small amount of those will be left over for Zen purchases at the end of the day so the people who keep trading Zen for ADs get a fair deal, the AH prices maintain their overall stability price wise and what you have to do is to get the items and trade em on for ADs. The issue with the game is having the right amount of AD sinks in the game to regulate the amount of ADs and prevent rampant inflation of AD-linked prices.
Sure you can win if a game has pvp. Player 1 has basic kit, Player 2 has the uber bad-ass kit he has spent a fortune on, if the store bought kit is so good it gives him a big enough advantage against Player 1 that all other things being equal he will win all the time because of the edge his kit gives him then it is quite simply pay to win.
If I kill you, by definition I win.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.
This is exactly like STO and I got to say, once I was max level, I was quite happy to chip in a little 20$ to get some premium items + with all the dilithium that I had made, it nearly gave me another 20$ worth of Zen. Got myself the Auverdine ship and lots of cool toys!
Neverwinter appears to be similar. You can casually get yourself to max level without too much hassle. Maybe a little 5$ or 10$ down the line but that's what? 10$ every month or so?
At max level, maybe put another 25$ to get some really good stuff and you're set for a long time. The rest can be grinded the good old fashion way.
So ok, you're spending money but compared to a game where: 60$ the box, 15$ a month... I'm happy to just spend a little 10$ here and there to get exactly what I want.
I don't want to turn this into a long debate because I know right away neither of us will change our minds, so let me just say I'll disagree with you, but not because I think you're wrong.
Simply put, I don't view the cash shop as an equivalent of a service or commodity that finds a market in offering a convenience; I see it more akin to a casino that uses a variety of strategies to target a specific subset of the population who are incapable of making wise financial decisions. Both do appeal to impatience with the promise of instant gratification, but to varying degrees and returns.
Of course, we should respect people's individuality and the decisions they make, no matter how unwise, but speaking up for someone else - whether it be to defend their right to self determination or to bring attention to a questionable business practice - is also just as important.
If nothing else, speaking up about the PW cash shop can make people think about it and encourage them to make a more informed decision. Nothing wrong with that, really.
... and I went into tl'dr mode again. Dammit.
You've missed the entire point, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not complaining about the fact that I have to "pay for convenience". I'm complaining about HOW MUCH I have to pay for that convenience.
And I'm complaining ever more bitterly about the fact that it will cost me 2 or 3 or 4 times more to enjoy the same "play experience" in NWO (or most F2P games) as I would in an old-fashioned AAA MMO with a monthly sub.
But that is of course the prime reason why most games are hopping on the F2P bandwagon. They make more money per month off the average player that way.
Seriously, PWE better rework their cash shop items then because I'm coming top 1-3 in most level 60 PvP matches and haven't spent a penny on the game.
Don't knock it til you've tried it.