Off-Hours sieging: Part of the game or just lame?

Slapshot1188 · May 2013

One of the issues that has carried over from the original DF was the 24/7 nature of sieging. When it launched, it was a worldwide server so I understood the reasoning and even supported it as it drove alliances to include clans from all around the world.

In DF:UW though, we have split servers. There are still clans that insist on dropping sieges at 3AM on weekdays. This isn't a discussion about any specific siege but just a question in general. Is this a GOOD mechanic or should there be some mechanism which would allow clans to block out a window of time in which sieging could not occur?

Edit to add my take on it: 24/7 sieging just drives people to form HUGE alliances or mass recruit to their clan so that they can get some semblance of 24/7 playerbase. All this does is support zerging. Allowing clans to somewhat restrict siege times would allow alliances and clan to stay smaller and just focus on their normal playtime.

Mkilbride2599 · May 2013

No...that'd be incredibly dumb. They're doing a sneak attack. Whole point. Defenders are asleep. Persistent world. It's a MMORPG, no?

Slapshot1188 · May 2013

Originally posted by Mkilbride2599
No...that'd be incredibly dumb. They're doing a sneak attack. Whole point. Defenders are asleep. Persistent world. It's a MMORPG, no?

I guess you are not familiar with the game mechanics. There is no "sneak attack". They drop a siege stone like 20 hours in advance. It's not a matter of the defenders being "Surprised" , they know it's coming but what can most people do about a siege that drops at 3AM or 11AM or something like that? Most folks have jobs or even school. On the original game it was a somewhat cool idea due to the worldwide nature of the server. In this version though, we have localized servers.

This leads to mass recruitment to try and insure you have off-hours coverage and eventually just a big zerg.... or a world where everyone just shakes hands and skip sieging because it's a pain in the ass.

zabin · May 2013

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Originally posted by Mkilbride2599
No...that'd be incredibly dumb. They're doing a sneak attack. Whole point. Defenders are asleep. Persistent world. It's a MMORPG, no?

I guess you are not familiar with the game mechanics. There is no "sneak attack". They drop a siege stone like 20 hours in advance. It's not a matter of the defenders being "Surprised" , they know it's coming but what can most people do about a siege that drops at 3AM or 11AM or something like that? Most folks have jobs or even school. On the original game it was a somewhat cool idea due to the worldwide nature of the server. In this version though, we have localized servers.

This leads to mass recruitment to try and insure you have off-hours coverage and eventually just a big zerg.... or sieging because it's a pain in the ass.

I just recently started playing this game. I was wondering how the siege mechanic worked that explains it pretty well. I have yet to find a perfect system in any game I have played. The best I think was SWG where when you put down a base that hour every 24 hour was the only window it was vulnerable to attack. That way you could time it's vulnerability window with your guilds prime online time

Caldrin · May 2013

In the original Darkfall they added in special items that you could buy as a defender to push the time of the siege back a few hours or whatever.. so the defenders could control the time of the siege of course this did cost gold but it worked fine..

I dont know if this is in DF:UW but its probably one of those things they forgot about and left out like most of the original features..

also @ OP Darkfall also had two servers by the way.. not at the very start but a year after launch or whatever the opened a US server. So nothing has really changed there.

But i think its just part of the game..

Thaliost · May 2013

I think 4am sieges are retarded and my clan just suffered one 2 days ago, but they shouldn't be taken out of the game.

There is an EU server but people are from everywhere and have different lives. I think there can be a 5-6 hour timezone difference between western europe and russia... and people have different schedules (even workers and not just people with lots of free time), so they should be forced to siege at a certain time?

and what is the certain time? for me 9am-6pm should not siegable but other people will have other schedules, and even people with same schedules will have different preferences when they are in different timezones.

Not to mention strategic decisions/moves, that might be involved in sieging.

Also, you can get sieged at 4 am but most of the server will look down on the aggressors and might even help out the defenders. The aggressors get a bad rep.

Caldrin · May 2013

Originally posted by Thaliost

Also, you can get sieged at 4 am but most of the server will look down on the aggressors and might even help out the defenders. The aggressors get a bad rep.

Exactly.. if you cant get your clan to get one there will be some mercs out there you can hire to help defend your city. Its all part of the game.. There are some really large guilds out there that would quite happily defend your city for the right amount of cash and all the gear they loot from the people they kill.

Its all part of the meta game..

Stromm · May 2013

Originally posted by Mkilbride2599
No...that'd be incredibly dumb. They're doing a sneak attack. Whole point. Defenders are asleep. Persistent world. It's a MMORPG, no?

Agreed. If you wanna play at war then harden up princesses.

You created a new account and still misspelled Milk !?!? :-)

Zooce · May 2013

If AV wants to reach a wider audience I suggest they limit siege vulnerability windows during the work-week.

Slapshot1188 · May 2013

Originally posted by Zooce
If AV wants to reach a wider audience I suggest they limit siege vulnerability windows during the work-week.

I agree, but it should come with a cost. So for every hour that you restrict a siege, it will cost you X (gold resources dominion... whatever)

Also, there is nothing "Princess"-like about preferring to actually fight for your property as opposed to having it determined by others during a workday or night. People who think that are usually ones with a ton of "spare time" on their hands for one reason or another.

Niburu · May 2013

What i dont understand is that they said that the siege system that we had at the end of darkfall is the new one for UW.

However at the end of DF we had protection shards if iam right that could protect your holding from sieging up to 12h

Azdul · May 2013

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

This leads to mass recruitment to try and insure you have off-hours coverage and eventually just a big zerg.... or a world where everyone just shakes hands and skip sieging because it's a pain in the ass.

Sieges are the most fun you can have in DF, and they usually don't happen in off-hours.

Current "sieges" are really just fights over empty bindstones, claimed just after launch - and more about bragging rights than conquering territory. Also the last siege on EU-1 was pushed back by few hours because of unexpected patch downtime.

The fully built city requires tremendous effort to conquer - so you don't have to worry about some 15 man clan dropping off hours challenge. The few cities that are fully built now will not be conquered without major server-wide war.

Realbigdeal · May 2013

Early or late sieges are part of the game. Usually, the whole community respond with a all on 1 clan against the one doing it. I'd be surprise if the community approves this kind of act.

Aragon100 · May 2013

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
One of the issues that has carried over from the original DF was the 24/7 nature of sieging. When it launched, it was a worldwide server so I understood the reasoning and even supported it as it drove alliances to include clans from all around the world.

In DF:UW though, we have split servers. There are still clans that insist on dropping sieges at 3AM on weekdays. This isn't a discussion about any specific siege but just a question in general. Is this a GOOD mechanic or should there be some mechanism which would allow clans to block out a window of time in which sieging could not occur?

Edit to add my take on it: 24/7 sieging just drives people to form HUGE alliances or mass recruit to their clan so that they can get some semblance of 24/7 playerbase. All this does is support zerging. Allowing clans to somewhat restrict siege times would allow alliances and clan to stay smaller and just focus on their normal playtime.

It's lame even though some will call it good tactics. During DF1 the cheater guild the Mercs always raided during late nights cause they had little to no opposition. This was before NA1 were released.

DFUW is a zerg game with gamemechanisms that promote zergs.

A restricted siege time could be useful even though it wont help against the zerging that already happened. There is huge guilds of +600 and alliances of guilds as big.

Sasami · May 2013

If you can't stand 24/7/365 sieging, your not hardcore enough for this game!

Four0Six · May 2013

Keep it.

To start limiting the time would begin the breakdown of the "persistant" world. (server crashes aside)

Just another aspect that is giving me a "real" feel.

For the first time in years I am having fun, and finding myself logging many more hours than I planned.

Turns out I enjoy, not being told to go collect some wood, or kill some zombies, or escort some fool. I also enjoy making my gear and armor.

I suspect I will enjoy the time when I can sneak up and get my gank on, or roll some poorly protected property. You should too this is FFA PvP, you want Esport with rules and time frames, try GW2.

sanshi44 · May 2013

Think of it this way if its offpeak form u guys u may not have asmany people on but it will be offpeak time for most ofthere players aswell so ur kinda in the same boat there.

TheLizardbones · May 2013

I think off-hours sieges are lame, but it's just part of the game. If you're going to have a persistent world, you're going to have people there when you're not there.

This isn't exclusive to DF though, other games have to deal with this as well. Other than providing automated defenses or not allowing sieges unless somebody is home, I'm not sure what can be done without impact game play.

Dihoru · May 2013

In EVE-Online during the old sov system days you'd have this sort of stuff done to POSes to ensure higher chances of being able to field more combatants than the enemy. Is this lame? Only if you dislike the idea of fair and equal chances to everyone involved. Why do I say this? Well this way small groups can attack larger ones and leverage some wins based on timed attacks, it might not sound fair but war is not fair, just ask every nation that ever got buttfucked during a war.

StarI · May 2013

It's part of the game!

And it's lame.

But so what... people call lame when they get killed by superior numbers... should we make players invulnerable unless they are 100% balanced and ready to encounter player vs player action? Ofc NOT.

It's part of sandbox. If majority of population plays at evenings than they are completely free to zerg the fuck fuck out of those few who want to shit on them early morning. If that's not the case than you don't really have the right to tell people they can't play when they want to.

As usual first and easiest step is to come on forums and cry about it. It's how public part of gaming politics works.

PropaQQanda.

Nevertheless, the stronger ones will prevail.

AV should only prevent sieges being too cheap, so not anyone can lay sieges indefinitely... so if you do decide to continuously play lame and retake cities, be it day or night, you should see the consequences and eventually get broke.

BadSpock · May 2013

I love when people quote like real-world tactics and examples etc.

Like, of course you'd attack in the middle of the night and catch your enemy sleeping!

Duh?!?

Umm... it's a game.

Gameplay > all other concerns.

Witching hour siege zergs on localized servers= bad gameplay.

To each their own I guess... but to me this is the kind of idea that would have flown back in 2000 or so, but now just seems really, really tired and dated and out of touch.

I do remember staying awake far, far too long on school nights back in 2000-2001 to defend against sieges in UO on Felucca after they put in the 4-way faction warfare system.

I actually remember one time on Atlantic where I was half asleep at my keyboard around 1:30am trying to defend Magincia I think (Council of Mages FTW) and a bunch of Shadowlord tamers showed up with like, a dozen tamed dragons in tow.

Good times, but jeeze... that kind of play schedule is only for the young and foolish.

Dihoru · May 2013

Originally posted by BadSpock
I love when people quote like real-world tactics and examples etc.

Like, of course you'd attack in the middle of the night and catch your enemy sleeping!

Duh?!?

Umm... it's a game.

Gameplay > all other concerns.

Witching hour siege zergs on localized servers= bad gameplay.

To each their own I guess... but to me this is the kind of idea that would have flown back in 2000 or so, but now just seems really, really tired and dated and out of touch.

I do remember staying awake far, far too long on school nights back in 2000-2001 to defend against sieges in UO on Felucca after they put in the 4-way faction warfare system.

I actually remember one time on Atlantic where I was half asleep at my keyboard around 1:30am trying to defend Magincia I think (Council of Mages FTW) and a bunch of Shadowlord tamers showed up with like, a dozen tamed dragons in tow.

Good times, but jeeze... that kind of play schedule is only for the young and foolish.

Uhmm if people wanna have fun without work there are plenty of singleplayer sandbox games with multiplayer and pvp (minecraft, terraria, etc). The fact you state gameplay > all other concerns is amusing because fairness isn't a consideration of gameplay, balance is .

linksalu · May 2013

Like someone said, it's part of the game...and it's lame. I don't know what the alternative/solution should be, but I'm hoping AV can figure out some kind of automated back-and-forth between the leaders of the two clans.

I was in a guild called Soul Takers, haven't played very much so I'm low PP, and got to see the clan city last night for the first time. Which is was freaking gorgeous, by the way. I hung around for the little pokes that we managed to repel, but I couldn't be on for the actual siege at 3am...sorry, I have work. I would love to participate in that experience, but yeah. Logged in this morning and it looks like they lost the city, but I can't say I'm surprised since it never looked like a serious PVP guild.

EDIT: Also, it's not really 'catching your enemy unaware'. Everyone can see it coming hours and hours in advance. It's more like "DO I WANT TO GET FIRED/HAVE MY WOMAN LEAVE ME'. 3 am, man? Maybe when I was 15.

linksalu · May 2013

Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by linksalu
but I couldn't be on for the actual siege at 3am...sorry, I have work.

at 3am ? unlikely...

since you knew 20 hours in advance, you could employ a combo between the "afternoon nap" and the "alarm clock".

it would've worked fine and you could've done the siege and be at work on time if you really cared about your guild/clan/whatever.

as assholish as this sounds, I run into your problem all the time in Eve. And I don't blame the game for it. I know it's my life choices that are getting in the way. If you can't accept this, perhaps Lego Universe might provide a more appropriate sandbox experience.

I mean, I have work the next day. Not at 3am. At 7am, and you know, it involves a commute. And like I said, I'm not 15. I accept that it's a part of the game, but I'm also honest enough to know that it's lame and suggest that maybe AV can figure out something fairer.

It's funny how you immediately start insulting me for no reason, though. Not compromising my RL means I should go play with teddy bear, okay. Go clap yourself on the back for that nice burn and put a little more Proactive on your face.

linksalu · May 2013

Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by linksalu

I mean, I have work the next day. Not at 3am. At 7am, and you know, it involves a commute. And like I said, I'm not 15. I accept that it's a part of the game, but I'm also honest enough to know that it's lame and suggest that maybe AV can figure out something fairer.

It's funny how you immediately start insulting me for no reason, though. Not compromising my RL means I should go play with teddy bear, okay. Go clap yourself on the back for that nice burn and put a little more Proactive on your face.

to the first paragraph: a better suggestion was not yet offered. Right now the best answer is to either do what it takes or to recruit players from same timezone as your enemies and have your city populated around the clock. Obviously THEY can manage it. Why can't your team ? you mentioned yourself, but what about all your allies and all the enemies ? why is your problem only on your side of the siege ?

To the second paragraph: my reason is your attitude. Your agument is a very wordy equivalent "I'm entitled to have the enemy team siege only when I want them to", regardless of anything.

finally...if you start work at 7, and it's now 10.30am in East, 7.30am in West, and a Friday...and you're actively involved on forums...dot dot dot.

I don't get the point you're trying to make with the work thing. I'm here for quite a number of hours and can access the internet just fine.

As for the main thing, this is what I said in my first post: "I don't know what the alternative/solution should be, but I'm hoping AV can figure out some kind of automated back-and-forth between the leaders of the two clans." So no, that doesn't mean "I'm entitled to have the enemy team siege only when I want them to". In fact, that's what the CURRENT system is if you're the attacker. I'm hoping AV can find a middle ground. This is really not the craziest idea in the world, so I don't see the problem here.

Slapshot1188 · May 2013

Originally posted by Robokapp

finally...if you start work at 7, and it's now 10.30am in East, 7.30am in West, and a Friday...and you're actively involved on forums...dot dot dot.

Some people have big boy jobs and can put their feet up on their desk, drink a cup of coffee and check a website to 2 on their phone or laptop.

Howdy, Stranger!

Off-Hours sieging: Part of the game or just lame?

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Off-Hours sieging: Part of the game or just lame?

Comments