Originally posted by Gnarv To me it is also a jewel. But alas the masses have spoken and what they wanted, and time revealed it was not VG, was Theme parks. They wanted easy, predictable, accessible, less time consuming design that in the end demands less of the gamer. The gameworlds themselves die, they loose their mystery, we know what is comming around next corner, and why should we care? Whatever we find will be something that we will be able to run over blindfolded, and if a miracle should happen and we die, then we respawn 5 yards away - and this time there is just no way you will make that huge a mistake.
I could not disagree more. Numbers at launch for this game were huge, because alas the masses spoke! This is the kind of game we wanted! All of us of swarmed Telon and were indeed met with a wonderful game, I would argue one of the best worlds since the original Norrath, however it was so deeply masked and hidden behind spiderwebs of bugs, poor optimization, numerous crashes, and oh yeah, a barebone dev team just months after launch. Unlike games now where people spam general chat about how terrible the game is before they rage quit, the common ringing in my ear (err chatbox) was how terrible the optimization was and the bugs, and the stabilization of the client. The classes were the last in-depth classes we have seen in MMOs, one of the last games to feature over 10 uniquely different classes at launch (not SWTOR's 4 cloned classes to call it 8). It had everything we always are whining and begging for on these forums....except for a half stable launch.
If this game proves anything, its not that we want theme parks like WoW, it is that a botched launch and poor optimization can utterly ruin a game right out of the gates.
I do remember the problems of Vanguard at release, I remember the so called seamless tech, I remember how it felt zoning. I also remember the lag in the major city's. But these flaws, were they actually that bad? Bad as in exodus bad. I personally did not leave due to those, it was a great game so f what if there were some problems. On my rig back then, which was not anything special, it ran fine outside of major city's and when zoning. Yes there were many bugs, did it Blow my fun? No. Maybe I then belong to a distinct spicies of gamers that can apreciate a beautiful designed open gameworld regardless of a mouthful of bugs being present. Personally looking at the immense popularity of the theme parks I think you will be hard pressed not to recognise the grandeur of their succes. Warcraft, Rift, GW2 has done well for themselves anyhow. So are the people playing these games just misguided sheep that has not yet seen the light? I would like to share your optimism on that one I really would. And furthermore I am not sure that you qualify withing the category of being within the masses, you can freely take that as a compliment, and I am not sure I do either. I Think that game developers today has a signicant focus on the younger 'consumer' as their target for designing these games. I do however realize that there likely would be enuff people to support a good traditional MMO, an opinion that some developers seem to have caught on to. But will these games gain followers above a million players and be for the masses, probably not imo, time will tell.
GameByNightHardware and Technology EditorMMORPG.COM Staff, MemberRarePosts: 811
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
I'm a Vanguard vet with 5 level 55s and numerous other classes of all levels.
EQN will be on par with Vanguard, hell we already know it's a totally open world for one.We also know that the classes are going to be more akin to EQ and Vanguard rather than EQ2. Don't be surprised to see an updated copy of Vanguards diplomacy system as well.
I think you will find that EQN will be along the same lines as Vanguard and EQ, let be honest Vanguard is more of a hybrid mmo rather than an out and out themepark.
As for chunking, well mine is instant, SSD is the key.
I wonder about EQN being so close to Vanguard. It would be great for it to be closer to that mark, sure, but the market has advanced so far since 2007 that being too similar to Vanguard would ensure it stays niche. That said, the big open world is a plus, but have they confirmed that it will be open in the same way VG is -- open dungeons and such?
What has me excited for EQN is the integration of Storybricks. That could be huge. The best thing would be if they blended Diplomacy with Storybricks and had truly interactable and influenceable NPCs.
GameByNightHardware and Technology EditorMMORPG.COM Staff, MemberRarePosts: 811
Originally posted by Atrocitus
Hey Chris, too bad you aren't a 'hot chick', then with your writing skills and hotness you would have tens of thousands of followers.......
But sadly, all you have is good writing skills..............
Uh, wait a minute, what?
Good article mate.........Vanguard makes my heart ache a bit. Its sad the likelihood of a game of this size and caliber being made again is small. That whole genre will be considered the "Golden Era" of MMOs one day.............
Thanks for the comment! Honestly, Vanguard wasn't there by year, but by design I definitely think Vanguard is part of the Golden Era. It's closer to EQ1, Ultima, DAoC, and the rest than anything released recently.
And I can be a hot chick. All it takes is a quick image search since you all know me by my avatar anyways ;-)
The only thing that kept me from putting more time into was that the gameplay felt "clumbsy" to me....hard to explain. Nothing felt intuitive or smooth for me.
Now, the constant fear of developing a character just to have the game shut down always haunts me (I got burned on MXO and SWG).
Best mmo for me since wow. To bad its still in such a bad shape that I cant look past it. Hopefully we will see a game with the same vision as vanguard.
Eve online and +1500 steam games in the back cataloge makes me a stressed out gamer.
Vanguard was dated when it was released. I have tried the game several times and beyond the open world and diplomacy design, it really had nothing new to offer. SOE put very little effort into fixing the problems it had which did not help. Even EQII was more comtemporary.
Vanguard the idea was a force to be reckoned with.
Vanguard the game was terrible, from launch to present.
So bad; in fact, that Brad McQuaid came back a second time to try and fix the game and ended up quickly leaving it for EQ1! if that doesn't tell you the game is done nothing will.
Vanguard was doomed from the start. There were some serious problems going on behind the scenes. What was miraculous was that they actually got SOE to outright buy Vanguard. SOE already had one flop-fest on their hands with SWG and it looked like the just bought another one. That, and the fact EQ2 was barely saved, really made SOE look bad.
They actually turned Vanguard into a solid game. Obviously that never translated into any tangible sales. This is the game people point to where you can say "you give a MMO a month or two and once people leave they do not come back". People usually came back to SWG because it was Star Wars. No one came back to Vanguard. It's dead Jim.
Vanguard was more similar to original EQ than any other MMO at that point. That was the whole point of the game, to go back to what original EQ did so well. Depending on groups. You could solo some (now you can solo up to the highest level) but back in the day you really had to group or it was slim pickens.
Vanguard had severe technical problems that rivaled SWG. Actually, those problems outdid SWGs problems because they actually fixed that game. They never really fixed Vanguard. They had to re-do some of the graphical meshes because they really messed up performance. The races sort of changed, it was not as customizable as it was on release.
But there were two problems that game had and still has today. The chunking problem (when you loaded different areas) was an eyesore as well as the object loadings in view. It was very small and things would just pop into view right in front of your eyes. The game does not hold up well today, unlike other MMOs of that era.
But if you could get past the technical glitches, you had an excellent game at its core. Three ways to level. Adventure, Craft or the totally unique (and awesome) Diplomacy. Sure, the crafting and diplomacy were not finished until much later but it was a lot of fun to be just a crafter or diplomat. Vanguard crafting is still one of the great crafting systems in any MMO. It is not on the level of SWG or EVE or Horizons, but its only one step lower.
But the true greatness of Vanguard was the class system. It had, and still has, some of the best classes and class mechanics of any MMO.
And the best was the healers. Up to that point, playing a healer was awful. Vanguard made healers fun. The Blood Mage was a squishy, cloth wearer who had unique heal/buff transfers. The Shaman was a wonderful class, alot like WOW's Druid/Shaman classes. The Cleric was the standard heavy armor wearing cleric but could actually tank a bit. And one of the great MMO classes of all time was the Disciple, a monk/healer hybrid.
No game since has had as good healer classes as Vanguard, not even close. The other classes were very well done, but the Healer classes were s stroke of genius.
Boats, three big continents, open world housing also were there but other games had those. You played Vanguard because you wanted to be challenged like you were in EQ.
totally agree..I would love to see this game made again .same areas ,same classes,same races,same starting areas.but it will never happen..had the best 2 yrs of my gaming life playing this game..which for me was a miracle considering I wanted to play this after getting sick of WOW.
I was kind of hoping eqnext would be like this..well it might be in difficulty but that will be the only thing that's the same.
I'm a Vanguard vet with 5 level 55s and numerous other classes of all levels.
EQN will be on par with Vanguard, hell we already know it's a totally open world for one.We also know that the classes are going to be more akin to EQ and Vanguard rather than EQ2. Don't be surprised to see an updated copy of Vanguards diplomacy system as well.
I think you will find that EQN will be along the same lines as Vanguard and EQ, let be honest Vanguard is more of a hybrid mmo rather than an out and out themepark.
I certainly hope so. I'm getting a little tired of developers figuring out the 'hybrid/best of both worlds' formula.
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
It is great to see SOE is improving Vanguard. Now the real challenge is to invite people to play the game...
It won't help. The name was tarnished beyond repair after the dreadful launch. In the MMO world, it is *very* rare for any game to come back after badly flubbing its launch. Vanguard was, as has been said earlier, a greatly anticipated game. Even after the ugliness regarding the dev and the producers (Microsoft then SOE), there was still a lot of hope it would be a great game. When that sort of hope and anticipation is crushed so thoroughly, that's it for the game ever becoming a big player in the future. It might still hang around, as Vanguard has, but it'll never be great or well-populated. That's just how it is.
^ Agree. It's in an unrecoverable state. Its failed launch, its datedness, another failed resurrection attempt.. People have simply moved on.
I'm a Vanguard vet with 5 level 55s and numerous other classes of all levels.
EQN will be on par with Vanguard, hell we already know it's a totally open world for one.We also know that the classes are going to be more akin to EQ and Vanguard rather than EQ2. Don't be surprised to see an updated copy of Vanguards diplomacy system as well.
I think you will find that EQN will be along the same lines as Vanguard and EQ, let be honest Vanguard is more of a hybrid mmo rather than an out and out themepark.
As for chunking, well mine is instant, SSD is the key.
I wonder about EQN being so close to Vanguard. It would be great for it to be closer to that mark, sure, but the market has advanced so far since 2007 that being too similar to Vanguard would ensure it stays niche. That said, the big open world is a plus, but have they confirmed that it will be open in the same way VG is -- open dungeons and such?
What has me excited for EQN is the integration of Storybricks. That could be huge. The best thing would be if they blended Diplomacy with Storybricks and had truly interactable and influenceable NPCs.
We don't know anything about EQN. Nothing. The only thing we have are Dave and Smed's carefully crafted, teasing sound bites to keep their hype train chugging along. So, saying EQN will be this or that is highly premature.
Nah got Vanguard at release (it was an utter shambles), came back with a free trial offer several months (maybe even a year later) graphics looked extreamly dated, however the bugs were still there, I have not been back nor will I even bother with this now, after all its what another 2 or so years on now and if everything looked dated back then it would be even worse now, and probably the bugs still have not been fixed.
Other games out there that offer a far better option I am afraid to say.
How I see games is if they go F2P its all about getting as much as they can from each gamer, if they start as P2P and then drop to F2P mode then its a failure (cannot cut it) so have gone to frisk out what they can from their left over supporters.
If a game doesn't cut a £9per month cost then why not drop the price by a 3rd, maybe some make a choice on games and cannot afford more than 1 a month, cutting the cost would probably help. I know I would pay for a 2nd, but right now I cannot afford more than 1 monthly game so have to make a choice, the one you tend to stick with is what everything has to beat and thusfar nothing has come close to the one I have been playing for nigh on 9/10yrs, I also never thought I would be in the same game for that length of time.
I loved the Diplomacy mini game. Was a nice alternative and really the best thing about the game. I found myself playing Diplomacy more than the actual action stuff lol.
Hey Chris, too bad you aren't a 'hot chick', then with your writing skills and hotness you would have tens of thousands of followers.......
But sadly, all you have is good writing skills..............
Uh, wait a minute, what?
Good article mate.........Vanguard makes my heart ache a bit. Its sad the likelihood of a game of this size and caliber being made again is small. That whole genre will be considered the "Golden Era" of MMOs one day.............
Meow! Someone got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning. I can imagine who you are talking about. (Innocent Look)
"Diplomacy is a revolutionary feature that other MMOs need to adopt." - This is on my all time MMO list of innovation that was lost. We often talk about there being no innovation in MMO's, when many great ideas never see the light of day again. Who needs new innovation, just bring back some of those great ideas.
That's actually a good idea...Sadly, many current mmoers 'think' they know what they want, and have so many choices for games they are spoiled beyond belief.
They want this, they want that, they don't want this or they won't play. They rant and rave about mechanics like loading screens, the trinity style and so on......
And now, a lot of private/indy devs are listening to this niche demographic and are trying to tailor make mmos to fit.
And believe me, these games are going to tank so bad, its going to have a dramatic effect on this genre.
Im with you Scot though, I like the 'older' types of games. The grand epic ones........../shrug
I played from beta through the first year. I had real problems with the various bugs when they led to death, as this is a game with a serious death penalty.
My biggest shock was when I fell through the ground one day and died. Yes, I actually fell through the ground! That hasn't happened to me in a game since the 1990s except in Vanguard.
I tried going back earlier this year and I fell through the ground again. Happily, this time I just plopped back onto the ground again.
I just can't invest time and energy into a game where the fundamental mechanics are unreliable.
If they took the game, stripped off the graphic engine, rebuilt it around a lean and responsive engine, and rebranded it, I am sure it would be where I spent all of my time and it would be a commercial success.
I played from beta through the first year. I had real problems with the various bugs when they led to death, as this is a game with a serious death penalty.
My biggest shock was when I fell through the ground one day and died. Yes, I actually fell through the ground! That hasn't happened to me in a game since the 1990s except in Vanguard.
I tried going back earlier this year and I fell through the ground again. Happily, this time I just plopped back onto the ground again.
I just can't invest time and energy into a game where the fundamental mechanics are unreliable.
If they took the game, stripped off the graphic engine, rebuilt it around a lean and responsive engine, and rebranded it, I am sure it would be where I spent all of my time and it would be a commercial success.
You are lucky ! Here is a short list of games in 2000+ i have gone thru the world and fallen to death.
DAoC - there was even a spot in some dungeon known for that and guaranteed to cause you to fall thru
WoW - yep polished game they say but i have fallen thru the world here
Did parts of apw last night and nothing beats the beginning of endgame mobs in vanguard. Ihe debuffs, the way mobs can mezz casters and the difficulty of 24 man raids.
With all the garbage called mmos these days i have to say that vg is still a jewel in the mmo world. It still has its bugs like falling thru the world, being dismounted when crossing a chunk or even logging in with a mass of mobs cutting you to pieces even thou you logged off in a safe spot.
Anyway the pve, crafting and diplomacy are three games in one all extemely complicated as difficult.So if you want a huge open world and a challenge in three different areas mentioned about then take a 6 month sub which is dirt cheap. I garantee you will not be highest level in all of the 3 areas in those six months.
Maybe things changed with crafting after release, but from the little bit of crafting I did in Vanguard I remember there only being two possible results. Type A, or Type B (which had perhaps 3% better stats). And an extremely limited selection of base weapons and armor to begin with. I also seem to remember the game having WoW style static resource nodes? Which are always a snooze. So I don't see how Vanguard's crafting system can even be remotely compared to Pre-CU SWG's.
I recently went back to Vanguard after a couple of years away, to see what changes there were, and utilising the free-to-play system. Two days later, I subbed again, having realised that for me, it's still the best game out there. I absolutely love the crafting and diplomacy systems, the gameplay is second to none, and my all time favourite activity, exploring, is still as much fun as ever. It's just a pity that so many of the basic bugs are still there, and that SOE won't spend some of its massive resources on improving the small irritations that spoil the game. In spite of these, I expect to keep playing indefinitely, as no other game gives me so much pleasure or sense of achievement.
I would love to get back into Vanguard -- the Vanguard that had a starting area for each race. That diversity meant endless replays with new characters and a constant sense of wonder.
What SOE did was to destroy all of that. No longer can you choose all the fantastic, diverse starting areas -- they're being "repurposed" to higher level. Only 4 starting areas -- on the excuse of "putting people together". Never mind that the portals were easily accessed and let you move from area to area quickly and simply.
I tried logging in. I can't play in literally ANY of the starting cities I loved so much -- they're not starting, anymore.
It's like they chose the worst 4 and kept those. Idiots.
Vanguard is a fantastic memory that I refuse to ruin by trying to play this new iteration of it. The original was worth it; the revised up-to-last-summer was worth it. This version... isn't.
I played during beta; didn't like the changes they made to combat, and then after something ese that happened cancelled my pre-order and quit beta. It was changed, even before the game was released and I didn't like what it was becoming.
I have since been back, and find the diplomacy the most fun. Crafting is good too, but somewhat different than I remembered.
For me, it's main problems is that the game was never really finished and while I've not been back for about two years now, it isn't going to be much more finished now - if any at all.
Seems I'm not the only one who loves the diplomacy there, it's mentioned in the majority of the posts...
Maybe SOE could release a version of it, a huge world to wandering around and explore, filled with npc's. No boring gear grind or any other usual stuff what you can find in countless other mmo's. Probably even a tablet could handle it (I mean just look at HeartStone).
They could call it Diplomacy Online: Vanguard. Or Vanguard: The Diplomacy
Originally posted by Gnarv To me it is also a jewel. But alas the masses have spoken and what they wanted, and time revealed it was not VG, was Theme parks.
If that was true themeparks wouldn't be crashing and burning harder than Vanguard, but they are.
Originally posted by Gnarv To me it is also a jewel. But alas the masses have spoken and what they wanted, and time revealed it was not VG, was Theme parks.
If that was true themeparks wouldn't be crashing and burning harder than Vanguard, but they are.
Comments
I do remember the problems of Vanguard at release, I remember the so called seamless tech, I remember how it felt zoning. I also remember the lag in the major city's. But these flaws, were they actually that bad? Bad as in exodus bad. I personally did not leave due to those, it was a great game so f what if there were some problems. On my rig back then, which was not anything special, it ran fine outside of major city's and when zoning. Yes there were many bugs, did it Blow my fun? No. Maybe I then belong to a distinct spicies of gamers that can apreciate a beautiful designed open gameworld regardless of a mouthful of bugs being present. Personally looking at the immense popularity of the theme parks I think you will be hard pressed not to recognise the grandeur of their succes. Warcraft, Rift, GW2 has done well for themselves anyhow. So are the people playing these games just misguided sheep that has not yet seen the light? I would like to share your optimism on that one I really would. And furthermore I am not sure that you qualify withing the category of being within the masses, you can freely take that as a compliment, and I am not sure I do either. I Think that game developers today has a signicant focus on the younger 'consumer' as their target for designing these games. I do however realize that there likely would be enuff people to support a good traditional MMO, an opinion that some developers seem to have caught on to. But will these games gain followers above a million players and be for the masses, probably not imo, time will tell.
I wonder about EQN being so close to Vanguard. It would be great for it to be closer to that mark, sure, but the market has advanced so far since 2007 that being too similar to Vanguard would ensure it stays niche. That said, the big open world is a plus, but have they confirmed that it will be open in the same way VG is -- open dungeons and such?
What has me excited for EQN is the integration of Storybricks. That could be huge. The best thing would be if they blended Diplomacy with Storybricks and had truly interactable and influenceable NPCs.
Thanks for the comment! Honestly, Vanguard wasn't there by year, but by design I definitely think Vanguard is part of the Golden Era. It's closer to EQ1, Ultima, DAoC, and the rest than anything released recently.
And I can be a hot chick. All it takes is a quick image search since you all know me by my avatar anyways ;-)
I love a lot of things about VG.
The only thing that kept me from putting more time into was that the gameplay felt "clumbsy" to me....hard to explain. Nothing felt intuitive or smooth for me.
Now, the constant fear of developing a character just to have the game shut down always haunts me (I got burned on MXO and SWG).
Best mmo for me since wow. To bad its still in such a bad shape that I cant look past it. Hopefully we will see a game with the same vision as vanguard.
Vanguard was dated when it was released. I have tried the game several times and beyond the open world and diplomacy design, it really had nothing new to offer. SOE put very little effort into fixing the problems it had which did not help. Even EQII was more comtemporary.
Vanguard the idea was a force to be reckoned with.
Vanguard the game was terrible, from launch to present.
So bad; in fact, that Brad McQuaid came back a second time to try and fix the game and ended up quickly leaving it for EQ1! if that doesn't tell you the game is done nothing will.
I certainly hope so. I'm getting a little tired of developers figuring out the 'hybrid/best of both worlds' formula.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
^ Agree. It's in an unrecoverable state. Its failed launch, its datedness, another failed resurrection attempt.. People have simply moved on.
We don't know anything about EQN. Nothing. The only thing we have are Dave and Smed's carefully crafted, teasing sound bites to keep their hype train chugging along. So, saying EQN will be this or that is highly premature.
In 2.5 months we'll finally know what its about.
Nah got Vanguard at release (it was an utter shambles), came back with a free trial offer several months (maybe even a year later) graphics looked extreamly dated, however the bugs were still there, I have not been back nor will I even bother with this now, after all its what another 2 or so years on now and if everything looked dated back then it would be even worse now, and probably the bugs still have not been fixed.
Other games out there that offer a far better option I am afraid to say.
How I see games is if they go F2P its all about getting as much as they can from each gamer, if they start as P2P and then drop to F2P mode then its a failure (cannot cut it) so have gone to frisk out what they can from their left over supporters.
If a game doesn't cut a £9per month cost then why not drop the price by a 3rd, maybe some make a choice on games and cannot afford more than 1 a month, cutting the cost would probably help. I know I would pay for a 2nd, but right now I cannot afford more than 1 monthly game so have to make a choice, the one you tend to stick with is what everything has to beat and thusfar nothing has come close to the one I have been playing for nigh on 9/10yrs, I also never thought I would be in the same game for that length of time.
That's actually a good idea...Sadly, many current mmoers 'think' they know what they want, and have so many choices for games they are spoiled beyond belief.
They want this, they want that, they don't want this or they won't play. They rant and rave about mechanics like loading screens, the trinity style and so on......
And now, a lot of private/indy devs are listening to this niche demographic and are trying to tailor make mmos to fit.
And believe me, these games are going to tank so bad, its going to have a dramatic effect on this genre.
Im with you Scot though, I like the 'older' types of games. The grand epic ones........../shrug
I played from beta through the first year. I had real problems with the various bugs when they led to death, as this is a game with a serious death penalty.
My biggest shock was when I fell through the ground one day and died. Yes, I actually fell through the ground! That hasn't happened to me in a game since the 1990s except in Vanguard.
I tried going back earlier this year and I fell through the ground again. Happily, this time I just plopped back onto the ground again.
I just can't invest time and energy into a game where the fundamental mechanics are unreliable.
If they took the game, stripped off the graphic engine, rebuilt it around a lean and responsive engine, and rebranded it, I am sure it would be where I spent all of my time and it would be a commercial success.
You are lucky ! Here is a short list of games in 2000+ i have gone thru the world and fallen to death.
DAoC - there was even a spot in some dungeon known for that and guaranteed to cause you to fall thru
WoW - yep polished game they say but i have fallen thru the world here
EQ2 - happened to me last year!
Did parts of apw last night and nothing beats the beginning of endgame mobs in vanguard. Ihe debuffs, the way mobs can mezz casters and the difficulty of 24 man raids.
With all the garbage called mmos these days i have to say that vg is still a jewel in the mmo world. It still has its bugs like falling thru the world, being dismounted when crossing a chunk or even logging in with a mass of mobs cutting you to pieces even thou you logged off in a safe spot.
Anyway the pve, crafting and diplomacy are three games in one all extemely complicated as difficult.So if you want a huge open world and a challenge in three different areas mentioned about then take a 6 month sub which is dirt cheap. I garantee you will not be highest level in all of the 3 areas in those six months.
Bobm111
L54 sorc
L32 cleric
l21 rogue
Maybe things changed with crafting after release, but from the little bit of crafting I did in Vanguard I remember there only being two possible results. Type A, or Type B (which had perhaps 3% better stats). And an extremely limited selection of base weapons and armor to begin with. I also seem to remember the game having WoW style static resource nodes? Which are always a snooze. So I don't see how Vanguard's crafting system can even be remotely compared to Pre-CU SWG's.
I would love to get back into Vanguard -- the Vanguard that had a starting area for each race. That diversity meant endless replays with new characters and a constant sense of wonder.
What SOE did was to destroy all of that. No longer can you choose all the fantastic, diverse starting areas -- they're being "repurposed" to higher level. Only 4 starting areas -- on the excuse of "putting people together". Never mind that the portals were easily accessed and let you move from area to area quickly and simply.
I tried logging in. I can't play in literally ANY of the starting cities I loved so much -- they're not starting, anymore.
It's like they chose the worst 4 and kept those. Idiots.
Vanguard is a fantastic memory that I refuse to ruin by trying to play this new iteration of it. The original was worth it; the revised up-to-last-summer was worth it. This version... isn't.
I played during beta; didn't like the changes they made to combat, and then after something ese that happened cancelled my pre-order and quit beta. It was changed, even before the game was released and I didn't like what it was becoming.
I have since been back, and find the diplomacy the most fun. Crafting is good too, but somewhat different than I remembered.
For me, it's main problems is that the game was never really finished and while I've not been back for about two years now, it isn't going to be much more finished now - if any at all.
Seems I'm not the only one who loves the diplomacy there, it's mentioned in the majority of the posts...
Maybe SOE could release a version of it, a huge world to wandering around and explore, filled with npc's. No boring gear grind or any other usual stuff what you can find in countless other mmo's. Probably even a tablet could handle it (I mean just look at HeartStone).
They could call it Diplomacy Online: Vanguard. Or Vanguard: The Diplomacy
If that was true themeparks wouldn't be crashing and burning harder than Vanguard, but they are.
Except for that fact that they aren't.