Spending $200 on founder pack (Beta) is a mugs game. Some people should never, ever have control over their money. First test the game, wait long as possible until reviews appear then decide if its really worth it. I made that mistake in the past, I learned from it.
EDIT: Just take a look at Star Trek Online, they did the same thing and look where it is. Failed game, gone "free to play"
By failed, do you mean Perfect World's biggest cash cow, because that is what it is. Just like many other games that have gone free to play, it is making money hand over fist for them. Hardly what anyone in the business world would call a "failed game".
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
I don't know if "I told you so" is the right expression here, but there was no shortage of people around here warning about how terrible PWE was... and no shortage of people trying to explain that somehow this time it would be different.
Good job on getting your money back though... I do love Discover card...
Originally posted by joeydtx79 Why would they wipe the servers when they stated there would be no wipe in the Open Beta phase, essentially a soft release of the game? It was clear in the announcements, where is the false advertising?
After having said that, if they do wipe the servers, it will demonstrate that neither Cryptic nor PWE have any concept of integrity. Those who do, do not go back on their given word. I will be VERY annoyed if I lose all of the time and effort I've put into my level 46 GWF. I really do not care about the $40 I've spent on the game so far (I can always get more money), but the time is another matter.
Given words/promises are not relevant under some serious circumstances you know ... for greater good they should be broken.
No. Ones word is either good, or it is not. The "greater good" dodge will not work here (nor should it). The "Greater Good", is that there be no wipe, and only those who have exploited should be punished. You might wish to explore the concept structure involved in the phrase "the Greater Good". I suspect you do not understand its true implications, and the consequences that tend to follow its application.
That's right , I'm a founder (200 bucks ) , and posted in a large thread asking for a refund if they don't wipe the servers.
They banned everyone from the forums who posted in the thread , and deleted the thread.
Whether it's a forum ban or game ban I don't really care , as 30 seconds on the Discover card site and checking "product not as advertised" just solved this.
Sad though , I actually liked the game a lot , but this has shown me PWE deserves no monetary support.
Knee jerk reactions are never a good thing. they''ve known about the problem for what a little over 12 hours now, and already you demand that they roll the servers back (to when?) sometimes you have to have all your facts before you do something which for most game companies usually takes longer then 12hrs on a weekend.
In the end you got your money back, good for you. No harm no foul you lost nothing and got to play a game you enjoyed for free for a month or more. Knowing how the internet IS (and human nature) you maybe just a disgruntled founder member demanding the impossible (knee jerk reaction, fix the problem now with a roll back before any idea of the total scope of the problem., or how best to fix it) on the other hand you could just as easily be one of those who exploited who may have never spent a dime in game and is pissed off at being banned. (What you believe exploiters that get banned just quietly fade away to the next game that come out?) just saying things and people on the internet are rarely what they claim to be, and anyone that believe everything they see posted on the internet (good or bad) are morons of epic proportions.
If we believe everything posted about neverwinter then we would believe that foundry quest of course no longer give loot or experience as others have already posted at this site. Haveing personally played the foundery recently(ie yesterday) I can say from first hand experience thats was a lie.
Not saying Cryptic is perfect but when you find that game company that can fix everything in a new game in under 48hours on a weekend. and fix it without further making the problem worse with Knee jerk reactions please let me know who they are i'll gladly try out thier game.
Guys, guys, guys - you all are really being quick to judge. I don't even play this game but I've dealt with dupes and massive hack problems before, both as a player and a game rep. You need to give PW more time to fix this problem. Thinking a complete solution will occur within 24 hours of them discovering the problem is very naive of you. Fact is, on the weekends, usually only the customer service team is in the office, and they can only spot the problem and relay it to the proper channel. Then you have the engineers, devs, or whoever else try to come in on their weekends ( if they can) and sort out a problem on their day off when they probably do not have all resources available, due to most of the office being gone for the weekend.
I have no idea what they are going to do to fix the problem, but asking for a server wipe is completely out of the question. I would just give them more time, say a week or two to fix it, then you can decide if you want to stick around or not.
To be fair, no one knew the game would launch in an open beta state.
I think paying customers have every reason to be upset and seek out refunds in this case.
Maybe not, however they did know they were spending their currency in a "open beta" state. Perhaps they should have waited till release to start spending the ADs and Zen they purchased. To me it was silly to buy founder packs in the first place. Play the game first. The only reason I purchased a founder pack for Dragons Prophet was because it cost $20 and I get $20 of Sation Cash that, even if I hate Dragons Prophet, I will still spend in games I enjoy such as EQ, EQ2, PS2. Some people blindly and wildly spent money, now they want refunds. After all, why should you be responsible for your wreckless spending.
If you buy a car and a recall is sent out. Do you demand a refund for your car? No, you take it to the shop and it gets fixed. Well your car is in the shop right now. Let the manufacturer make it right, if they fail at that, then make your refund requests and I would suggest never buying from that company again.
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
I don't know if "I told you so" is the right expression here, but there was no shortage of people around here warning about how terrible PWE was... and no shortage of people trying to explain that somehow this time it would be different.
Good job on getting your money back though... I do love Discover card...
Just out of curiousity what has PWE done thats any worse then what 90% of other game campanies have done? Have they pulled a NGE nerf like SOE? have they sold a expension so a month later they could change the game and make said expansion worthless? Are they the only game thats had bugs on release or required a roll back? Perhaps you need more experience or just better perspective. Shit happens in life, its not always the best but sometimes you have to deal with it. No you can't have everything and have it now.
I also like discover card but it is also one of the least accepted cards, even pizza places like Papa Johns won't accept it as people tend to abuse it.
Guys, guys, guys - you all are really being quick to judge. I don't even play this game but I've dealt with dupes and massive hack problems before, both as a player and a game rep. You need to give PW more time to fix this problem. Thinking a complete solution will occur within 24 hours of them discovering the problem is very naive of you. Fact is, on the weekends, usually only the customer service team is in the office, and they can only spot the problem and relay it to the proper channel. Then you have the engineers, devs, or whoever else try to come in on their weekends ( if they can) and sort out a problem on their day off when they probably do not have all resources available, due to most of the office being gone for the weekend.
I have no idea what they are going to do to fix the problem, but asking for a server wipe is completely out of the question. I would just give them more time, say a week or two to fix it, then you can decide if you want to stick around or not.
I totally agree that they can neither instantly fix the problem nor announce what action they will take without an investigation.
However, to leave an online game running basically unsupported over a weekend only 2 weeks after "launch" is not what I would remotely call "best practice".
Nobody was "minding the baby" overnight, which is why the problem was allowed to escalate to ridiculous proportions. That is just shoddy. Or maybe that's how they do F2P ?
To be fair, no one knew the game would launch in an open beta state.
I think paying customers have every reason to be upset and seek out refunds in this case.
Maybe not, however they did know they were spending their currency in a "open beta" state. Perhaps they should have waited till release to start spending the ADs and Zen they purchased. To me it was silly to buy founder packs in the first place. Play the game first. The only reason I purchased a founder pack for Dragons Prophet was because it cost $20 and I get $20 of Sation Cash that, even if I hate Dragons Prophet, I will still spend in games I enjoy such as EQ, EQ2, PS2. Some people blindly and wildly spent money, now they want refunds. After all, why should you be responsible for your wreckless spending.
If you buy a car and a recall is sent out. Do you demand a refund for your car? No, you take it to the shop and it gets fixed. Well your car is in the shop right now. Let the manufacturer make it right, if they fail at that, then make your refund requests and I would suggest never buying from that company again.
I agree.
It would seem common sense given the record of ANY game company. Games simply are never perfect on release.
Unfortunately common sense seem so uncommon these days when no one ever has to take responsibility for there own choices. (ie spending habits etc.)
Guys, guys, guys - you all are really being quick to judge. I don't even play this game but I've dealt with dupes and massive hack problems before, both as a player and a game rep. You need to give PW more time to fix this problem. Thinking a complete solution will occur within 24 hours of them discovering the problem is very naive of you. Fact is, on the weekends, usually only the customer service team is in the office, and they can only spot the problem and relay it to the proper channel. Then you have the engineers, devs, or whoever else try to come in on their weekends ( if they can) and sort out a problem on their day off when they probably do not have all resources available, due to most of the office being gone for the weekend.
I have no idea what they are going to do to fix the problem, but asking for a server wipe is completely out of the question. I would just give them more time, say a week or two to fix it, then you can decide if you want to stick around or not.
I totally agree that they can neither instantly fix the problem nor announce what action they will take without an investigation.
However, to leave an online game running basically unsupported over a weekend only 2 weeks after "launch" is not what I would remotely call "best practice".
Nobody was "minding the baby" overnight, which is why the problem was allowed to escalate to ridiculous proportions. That is just shoddy. Or maybe that's how they do F2P ?
Maybe they did have dev support on the weekend, maybe they didn't. I honestly don't know.
So are we mad and upset that we spend money and there is some downtime to fix a exploit? People are spamming the forums because they want their money back only because they either can't play or they feel that their Astral Diamonds got taken away. Thats why OP got a forum ban, and they did state if you got banned and didn't do anything to contact customer service. Why doesn't anyone do that anymore? Why do we go immediately to the knee-jerk reaction and start claiming false advertisement and scamming? I paid five bucks to this game, and now I can't play, should I get a refund? NO! Simply because I know they are fixing something. OP got banned because he posted something in a forum thread that was going to get people banned. I know you guys just want to throw logic to the wind and just hope that you get what you want in the end, but you're not, I'm sorry. We need to all take a chill pill and wait for the server to come up. OP contact customer service and get your anger issues checked out.
I don't know if "I told you so" is the right expression here, but there was no shortage of people around here warning about how terrible PWE was... and no shortage of people trying to explain that somehow this time it would be different.
Good job on getting your money back though... I do love Discover card...
Just out of curiousity what has PWE done thats any worse then what 90% of other game campanies have done? Have they pulled a NGE nerf like SOE? have they sold a expension so a month later they could change the game and make said expansion worthless? Are they the only game thats had bugs on release or required a roll back? Perhaps you need more experience or just better perspective. Shit happens in life, its not always the best but sometimes you have to deal with it. No you can't have everything and have it now.
I also like discover card but it is also one of the least accepted cards, even pizza places like Papa Johns won't accept it as people tend to abuse it.
edit P.S. oaiineed to type slower, m typoes get bad when i go fast
it not that they are the only company to do these things its that its the only things they ahve done, most companies people have faith in even though they ahve done some shddy shit, have also done great things, where as PWE has nothing but crap on thier record.
and to the OP
honestly i hope you dont get your money back, not that i dont agree with alot of what you ahve sid its simply that, you put 200 down for a gaem and you got the game, just as advertised, now the game is being screwed over by third oarties, ( the players) which dose not fall under the responsability of the company in fact, to be honest if it wasnt for them loseing money due to people not useing the cahs shop as much cause of this bug i doubt the would even be doing anyting at all about this cause thats the kind of company they are.
learn to think before investing, i learned my lesson the hard way, and accepted the loss, now its your turn.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Originally posted by Dibdabs NEVER buy a Founder pack in ANY game. Ever. See, I don't dupe, I didn't rampage through the Foundry and I stuck to the spirit of the game and levelled/earned my stuff honestly. I see no need for a blanket wipe - punish the guilty and not the innocent as well. The logs are available to see who mysteriously made 50 million AD almost overnight and who mysteriously levelled to 60 in less than a day.
If there is no wipe then this is not a true beta. If we can't communicate about bugs and gather info on them then this is NOT a beta. We can not communicate about bugs because the exploitation on those bugs will affect the game even after it is officially launched. I do not get how this concept is that hard for people to grasp.
I don't know if "I told you so" is the right expression here, but there was no shortage of people around here warning about how terrible PWE was... and no shortage of people trying to explain that somehow this time it would be different.
Good job on getting your money back though... I do love Discover card...
Just out of curiousity what has PWE done thats any worse then what 90% of other game campanies have done? Have they pulled a NGE nerf like SOE? have they sold a expension so a month later they could change the game and make said expansion worthless? Are they the only game thats had bugs on release or required a roll back? Perhaps you need more experience or just better perspective. Shit happens in life, its not always the best but sometimes you have to deal with it. No you can't have everything and have it now.
I also like discover card but it is also one of the least accepted cards, even pizza places like Papa Johns won't accept it as people tend to abuse it.
edit P.S. oaiineed to type slower, m typoes get bad when i go fast
it not that they are the only company to do these things its that its the only things they ahve done, most companies people have faith in even though they ahve done some shddy shit, have also done great things, where as PWE has nothing but crap on thier record.
and to the OP
honestly i hope you dont get your money back, not that i dont agree with alot of what you ahve sid its simply that, you put 200 down for a gaem and you got the game, just as advertised, now the game is being screwed over by third oarties, ( the players) which dose not fall under the responsability of the company in fact, to be honest if it wasnt for them loseing money due to people not useing the cahs shop as much cause of this bug i doubt the would even be doing anyting at all about this cause thats the kind of company they are.
learn to think before investing, i learned my lesson the hard way, and accepted the loss, now its your turn.
Amusingly I'll point this out again.
Good credit card companies treat their customers well.
They put in a category to ask for a chargeback for
"quality of product did not meet expectations/product and/or service did not meet expectations" for a reason.
Because they believe that should be your option.
I haven't asked for a chargeback in years , and have chosen to , wait for it , WAIT for it , check the box saying that PWE's service and product doesn't meet my expectations.
The CC company offers me that option , so why should I not use it ? It's not fraud , they have it built in to their automated option , they protect me as their customer.
Now PWE can try and prove their product is a "quality product"
Bets anyone ?
A TOS doesn't matter to the CC company , how its advertised or called "open beta" doesn't matter to the CC company , if I say the product is shit , and want my money back , the CC asks PWE , hey show us how your product isn't shit ( in more polite terms of course).
All legal and within my rights as the CC' company's customer.
Why would anyone pay $200 to beta test a game ? Anyways doesn't sound fair they banned you for posting in a certain thread best take your money somewhere else and this time not on a beta IMHO.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
Agree! Those who wasted their money because they wanted to get into beta early and have special items just got whacked in the kazzingers! NO beta should ever be marketed... If you are selling items and taking real money..... it is NOT beta.... You just bought into an incomplete and bugged game. I mean come on the UI is a mess. The AH search tools are horrible... no wonder they are finding exploits in the market system. The dungeon and pvp queue system performs like it is the first game to even have those systems in it. The game is full of basic graphical and performance bugs that should have been mostly worked out in closed beta (by most betas I have played through (at least 10 so far)). It is just a sign of poor implementation and lazy programming AND it is going to get worse.
That's right , I'm a founder (200 bucks ) , and posted in a large thread asking for a refund if they don't wipe the servers.
They banned everyone from the forums who posted in the thread , and deleted the thread.
Whether it's a forum ban or game ban I don't really care , as 30 seconds on the Discover card site and checking "product not as advertised" just solved this.
Sad though , I actually liked the game a lot , but this has shown me PWE deserves no monetary support.
You have done a wonderful job. I have also wasted 60 bucks on NEVERWINTER, the buggy piece of trash. I do not know if they have the guts to refund or rollback and let everyone start from scratch with their paid $ but I think that this will not go down easy.
If you follow my post for 4-5 days on this forum, I have stopped playing the game the moment I found this kind of bug exist.
I just hinted it in one of my post. I still fail to understand an mmo industry participant can steal public money from the player base which is actually the life-blood of this industry and then go away with "It Is In Beta".
This game is a shame to all of us be it players or be it developers. This game just shows how the relationship between a service provider and it's clients gets manipulated. I would definitely want them to refund or just restart the game from scratch and whoever bought any packs or any stuff at their stores should get the legitimate amount at the beginning of the new server.
Here is where I posted the hint of this bug a few hours ago before it actually got public and became this big:
Posted at (5/19/13 10:21:00 AM) much before the exploit got public.
"I also noticed when I posted some end game gear in the auction house which I got from delves chests, they were not found from the search and thus I lost the exchange fee and after 4 days none got sold. I did give out a buyout also and from another account and the gateway I checked and my end game gear was not found. This is so weird.
There is some unscrupulous activity throughout the game which you cannot pin-point but it exists."
Cheers Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
That's right , I'm a founder (200 bucks ) , and posted in a large thread asking for a refund if they don't wipe the servers.
They banned everyone from the forums who posted in the thread , and deleted the thread.
Whether it's a forum ban or game ban I don't really care , as 30 seconds on the Discover card site and checking "product not as advertised" just solved this.
Sad though , I actually liked the game a lot , but this has shown me PWE deserves no monetary support.
You have done a wonderful job. I have also wasted 60 bucks on NEVERWINTER, the buggy piece of trash. I do not know if they have the guts to refund or rollback and let everyone start from scratch with their paid $ but I think that this will not go down easy.
If you follow my post for 4-5 days on this forum, I have stopped playing the game the moment I found this kind of bug exist.
I just hinted it in one of my post. I still fail to understand an mmo industry participant can steal public money from the player base which is actually the life-blood of this industry and then go away with "It Is In Beta".
This game is a shame to all of us be it players or be it developers. This game just shows how the relationship between a service provider and it's clients gets manipulated. I would definitely want them to refund or just restart the game from scratch and whoever bought any packs or any stuff at their stores should get the legitimate amount at the beginning of the new server.
Here is where I posted the hint of this bug a few hours ago before it actually got public and became this big:
Posted at (5/19/13 10:21:00 AM) much before the exploit got public.
"I also noticed when I posted some end game gear in the auction house which I got from delves chests, they were not found from the search and thus I lost the exchange fee and after 4 days none got sold. I did give out a buyout also and from another account and the gateway I checked and my end game gear was not found. This is so weird.
There is some unscrupulous activity throughout the game which you cannot pin-point but it exists."
That's just it Soura. I can't fathom how people don't see the damage to the economy this has and will continue to do.
This exploit was NOT just introduced in the past 24 hours. It got exposed in general chat in the past day, while many guilds were abusing the hell out of it well before that.
Cryptic does not have the manpower to go through all the transactions that would have to be data mined to track all this down.
I really enjoyed the actual game same as you , that's the worst part , as I also like playing the in game auction house/market and crafting etc. That's ruined , permanently.
And Black Desert ..that one looks awesome. Hope none of them screw up by putting this sort of business model in place ..like NW has. Rift is going f2p in June, I think...so NW better check themselves or they're going to feel that sting a bit I believe.
Guys, guys, guys - you all are really being quick to judge. I don't even play this game but I've dealt with dupes and massive hack problems before, both as a player and a game rep. You need to give PW more time to fix this problem. Thinking a complete solution will occur within 24 hours of them discovering the problem is very naive of you. Fact is, on the weekends, usually only the customer service team is in the office, and they can only spot the problem and relay it to the proper channel. Then you have the engineers, devs, or whoever else try to come in on their weekends ( if they can) and sort out a problem on their day off when they probably do not have all resources available, due to most of the office being gone for the weekend.
To be fair, Cryptic didn't only have 24 hours to respond to this problem, they knew about (and fixed) the exploit since it was first discovered in STO, before the system was implemented in NWO. Similarly, they had at least three years to fix the "kill boss, reset map, kill boss, reset map" loop exploit for gear farming since it's the same exploit used for farming in Champions Online (which they didn't fix).
Cryptic's version control has always been rather dodgy, this time it just bit them in the ass because it involved a feature linked to the cash shop.
That's right , I'm a founder (200 bucks ) , and posted in a large thread asking for a refund if they don't wipe the servers.
They banned everyone from the forums who posted in the thread , and deleted the thread.
Whether it's a forum ban or game ban I don't really care , as 30 seconds on the Discover card site and checking "product not as advertised" just solved this.
Sad though , I actually liked the game a lot , but this has shown me PWE deserves no monetary support.
You have done a wonderful job. I have also wasted 60 bucks on NEVERWINTER, the buggy piece of trash. I do not know if they have the guts to refund or rollback and let everyone start from scratch with their paid $ but I think that this will not go down easy.
If you follow my post for 4-5 days on this forum, I have stopped playing the game the moment I found this kind of bug exist.
I just hinted it in one of my post. I still fail to understand an mmo industry participant can steal public money from the player base which is actually the life-blood of this industry and then go away with "It Is In Beta".
This game is a shame to all of us be it players or be it developers. This game just shows how the relationship between a service provider and it's clients gets manipulated. I would definitely want them to refund or just restart the game from scratch and whoever bought any packs or any stuff at their stores should get the legitimate amount at the beginning of the new server.
Here is where I posted the hint of this bug a few hours ago before it actually got public and became this big:
Posted at (5/19/13 10:21:00 AM) much before the exploit got public.
"I also noticed when I posted some end game gear in the auction house which I got from delves chests, they were not found from the search and thus I lost the exchange fee and after 4 days none got sold. I did give out a buyout also and from another account and the gateway I checked and my end game gear was not found. This is so weird.
There is some unscrupulous activity throughout the game which you cannot pin-point but it exists."
That's just it Soura. I can't fathom how people don't see the damage to the economy this has and will continue to do.
This exploit was NOT just introduced in the past 24 hours. It got exposed in general chat in the past day, while many guilds were abusing the hell out of it well before that.
Cryptic does not have the manpower to go through all the transactions that would have to be data mined to track all this down.
I really enjoyed the actual game same as you , that's the worst part , as I also like playing the in game auction house/market and crafting etc. That's ruined , permanently.
I understand ... how you feel ...
Cheers Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
"Update: We're still finalizing the plan of action. Once everything is locked in, we'll be posting everything, so keep your eyes on Facebook, on Twitter and on our forums -- we'll make sure it goes everywhere. Thank you all again, we appreciate your support and patience."
They seem to be responding and providing updates on their facebook page.
Though I'm not even sure what's going on, as I spent this as one of my much needed days off where I just watch movies and relax in a lazy chair while eating chips and drinking soda. xD
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
OP - dude really you think you are the consummate consumer because you are charging back after a forum post / removal / ban. I hope you aren't going to Discover and saying you tried to resolve the problem first, because you didn't. Forums are not the place for account service, account service personnel don't read or post on forums, account service issues are handled by them privately. You tried to get something from forum moderators they can't give you. Why not admit it, you made the forum post to vent and rant and rave, you always planned on doing the charge back no matter what.
If you were really doing this in a conscientious way and trying to work with them you would have 1) seen what their "solution" is (I don't think there will be one, they are so screwed no matter what at this point) 2) if you weren't happy actually contact people who are responsible for account service 3) then charge back if not resolved.
You got pissed off, ragequit on a forum, then charged back your credit card charge is what you have actually done no matter how else you try to describe it.
Ah, Chinese modern business practice. Working as intended. Here are a list of some ancient Chinese proverbs that I think sum up the entire Neverwinter/PWI experience.
Falling into a ditch makes you wiser
Of all the strategems, to know when to quit is the best.
Add legs to the snake after you finish drawing it.
An Ant may well destroy a whole dam.
Butcher the donkey after it finishes the job on the mill.
This is what this company is known for. This is why they get the bad rap they do, well deserved I might add. Do yourself a favor and AVOID any PWI products. It will save you money and time and aggravation. This is why many countries look with skeptical eyes at China. A lot of their businesses practice the same heavy handed, customer-last methods.
It's not an Asian thing either, Japan is basically the opposite way. They do something wrong (FFXIV) and their is hell to pay and they own up to it.
Comments
By failed, do you mean Perfect World's biggest cash cow, because that is what it is. Just like many other games that have gone free to play, it is making money hand over fist for them. Hardly what anyone in the business world would call a "failed game".
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
I don't know if "I told you so" is the right expression here, but there was no shortage of people around here warning about how terrible PWE was... and no shortage of people trying to explain that somehow this time it would be different.
Good job on getting your money back though... I do love Discover card...
No. Ones word is either good, or it is not. The "greater good" dodge will not work here (nor should it). The "Greater Good", is that there be no wipe, and only those who have exploited should be punished. You might wish to explore the concept structure involved in the phrase "the Greater Good". I suspect you do not understand its true implications, and the consequences that tend to follow its application.
To be fair, no one knew the game would launch in an open beta state.
I think paying customers have every reason to be upset and seek out refunds in this case.
Knee jerk reactions are never a good thing. they''ve known about the problem for what a little over 12 hours now, and already you demand that they roll the servers back (to when?) sometimes you have to have all your facts before you do something which for most game companies usually takes longer then 12hrs on a weekend.
In the end you got your money back, good for you. No harm no foul you lost nothing and got to play a game you enjoyed for free for a month or more. Knowing how the internet IS (and human nature) you maybe just a disgruntled founder member demanding the impossible (knee jerk reaction, fix the problem now with a roll back before any idea of the total scope of the problem., or how best to fix it) on the other hand you could just as easily be one of those who exploited who may have never spent a dime in game and is pissed off at being banned. (What you believe exploiters that get banned just quietly fade away to the next game that come out?) just saying things and people on the internet are rarely what they claim to be, and anyone that believe everything they see posted on the internet (good or bad) are morons of epic proportions.
If we believe everything posted about neverwinter then we would believe that foundry quest of course no longer give loot or experience as others have already posted at this site. Haveing personally played the foundery recently(ie yesterday) I can say from first hand experience thats was a lie.
Not saying Cryptic is perfect but when you find that game company that can fix everything in a new game in under 48hours on a weekend. and fix it without further making the problem worse with Knee jerk reactions please let me know who they are i'll gladly try out thier game.
Guys, guys, guys - you all are really being quick to judge. I don't even play this game but I've dealt with dupes and massive hack problems before, both as a player and a game rep. You need to give PW more time to fix this problem. Thinking a complete solution will occur within 24 hours of them discovering the problem is very naive of you. Fact is, on the weekends, usually only the customer service team is in the office, and they can only spot the problem and relay it to the proper channel. Then you have the engineers, devs, or whoever else try to come in on their weekends ( if they can) and sort out a problem on their day off when they probably do not have all resources available, due to most of the office being gone for the weekend.
I have no idea what they are going to do to fix the problem, but asking for a server wipe is completely out of the question. I would just give them more time, say a week or two to fix it, then you can decide if you want to stick around or not.
Maybe not, however they did know they were spending their currency in a "open beta" state. Perhaps they should have waited till release to start spending the ADs and Zen they purchased. To me it was silly to buy founder packs in the first place. Play the game first. The only reason I purchased a founder pack for Dragons Prophet was because it cost $20 and I get $20 of Sation Cash that, even if I hate Dragons Prophet, I will still spend in games I enjoy such as EQ, EQ2, PS2. Some people blindly and wildly spent money, now they want refunds. After all, why should you be responsible for your wreckless spending.
If you buy a car and a recall is sent out. Do you demand a refund for your car? No, you take it to the shop and it gets fixed. Well your car is in the shop right now. Let the manufacturer make it right, if they fail at that, then make your refund requests and I would suggest never buying from that company again.
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
Just out of curiousity what has PWE done thats any worse then what 90% of other game campanies have done? Have they pulled a NGE nerf like SOE? have they sold a expension so a month later they could change the game and make said expansion worthless? Are they the only game thats had bugs on release or required a roll back? Perhaps you need more experience or just better perspective. Shit happens in life, its not always the best but sometimes you have to deal with it. No you can't have everything and have it now.
I also like discover card but it is also one of the least accepted cards, even pizza places like Papa Johns won't accept it as people tend to abuse it.
I totally agree that they can neither instantly fix the problem nor announce what action they will take without an investigation.
However, to leave an online game running basically unsupported over a weekend only 2 weeks after "launch" is not what I would remotely call "best practice".
Nobody was "minding the baby" overnight, which is why the problem was allowed to escalate to ridiculous proportions. That is just shoddy. Or maybe that's how they do F2P ?
I agree.
It would seem common sense given the record of ANY game company. Games simply are never perfect on release.
Unfortunately common sense seem so uncommon these days when no one ever has to take responsibility for there own choices. (ie spending habits etc.)
Maybe they did have dev support on the weekend, maybe they didn't. I honestly don't know.
it not that they are the only company to do these things its that its the only things they ahve done, most companies people have faith in even though they ahve done some shddy shit, have also done great things, where as PWE has nothing but crap on thier record.
and to the OP
honestly i hope you dont get your money back, not that i dont agree with alot of what you ahve sid its simply that, you put 200 down for a gaem and you got the game, just as advertised, now the game is being screwed over by third oarties, ( the players) which dose not fall under the responsability of the company in fact, to be honest if it wasnt for them loseing money due to people not useing the cahs shop as much cause of this bug i doubt the would even be doing anyting at all about this cause thats the kind of company they are.
learn to think before investing, i learned my lesson the hard way, and accepted the loss, now its your turn.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
If there is no wipe then this is not a true beta. If we can't communicate about bugs and gather info on them then this is NOT a beta. We can not communicate about bugs because the exploitation on those bugs will affect the game even after it is officially launched. I do not get how this concept is that hard for people to grasp.
Amusingly I'll point this out again.
Good credit card companies treat their customers well.
They put in a category to ask for a chargeback for
"quality of product did not meet expectations/product and/or service did not meet expectations" for a reason.
Because they believe that should be your option.
I haven't asked for a chargeback in years , and have chosen to , wait for it , WAIT for it , check the box saying that PWE's service and product doesn't meet my expectations.
The CC company offers me that option , so why should I not use it ? It's not fraud , they have it built in to their automated option , they protect me as their customer.
Now PWE can try and prove their product is a "quality product"
Bets anyone ?
A TOS doesn't matter to the CC company , how its advertised or called "open beta" doesn't matter to the CC company , if I say the product is shit , and want my money back , the CC asks PWE , hey show us how your product isn't shit ( in more polite terms of course).
All legal and within my rights as the CC' company's customer.
Agree! Those who wasted their money because they wanted to get into beta early and have special items just got whacked in the kazzingers! NO beta should ever be marketed... If you are selling items and taking real money..... it is NOT beta.... You just bought into an incomplete and bugged game. I mean come on the UI is a mess. The AH search tools are horrible... no wonder they are finding exploits in the market system. The dungeon and pvp queue system performs like it is the first game to even have those systems in it. The game is full of basic graphical and performance bugs that should have been mostly worked out in closed beta (by most betas I have played through (at least 10 so far)). It is just a sign of poor implementation and lazy programming AND it is going to get worse.
You have done a wonderful job. I have also wasted 60 bucks on NEVERWINTER, the buggy piece of trash. I do not know if they have the guts to refund or rollback and let everyone start from scratch with their paid $ but I think that this will not go down easy.
If you follow my post for 4-5 days on this forum, I have stopped playing the game the moment I found this kind of bug exist.
I just hinted it in one of my post. I still fail to understand an mmo industry participant can steal public money from the player base which is actually the life-blood of this industry and then go away with "It Is In Beta".
This game is a shame to all of us be it players or be it developers. This game just shows how the relationship between a service provider and it's clients gets manipulated. I would definitely want them to refund or just restart the game from scratch and whoever bought any packs or any stuff at their stores should get the legitimate amount at the beginning of the new server.
Here is where I posted the hint of this bug a few hours ago before it actually got public and became this big:
Posted at (5/19/13 10:21:00 AM) much before the exploit got public.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5736650#5736650
"I also noticed when I posted some end game gear in the auction house which I got from delves chests, they were not found from the search and thus I lost the exchange fee and after 4 days none got sold. I did give out a buyout also and from another account and the gateway I checked and my end game gear was not found. This is so weird.
There is some unscrupulous activity throughout the game which you cannot pin-point but it exists."
Cheers
Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Once An Addict Always An Addict .
That's just it Soura. I can't fathom how people don't see the damage to the economy this has and will continue to do.
This exploit was NOT just introduced in the past 24 hours. It got exposed in general chat in the past day, while many guilds were abusing the hell out of it well before that.
Cryptic does not have the manpower to go through all the transactions that would have to be data mined to track all this down.
I really enjoyed the actual game same as you , that's the worst part , as I also like playing the in game auction house/market and crafting etc. That's ruined , permanently.
To be fair, Cryptic didn't only have 24 hours to respond to this problem, they knew about (and fixed) the exploit since it was first discovered in STO, before the system was implemented in NWO. Similarly, they had at least three years to fix the "kill boss, reset map, kill boss, reset map" loop exploit for gear farming since it's the same exploit used for farming in Champions Online (which they didn't fix).
Cryptic's version control has always been rather dodgy, this time it just bit them in the ass because it involved a feature linked to the cash shop.
I understand ... how you feel ...
Cheers
Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Once An Addict Always An Addict .
https://www.facebook.com/NeverWinterGame
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?262972-Astral-Diamond-Exchange-and-Auction-House-Offline
"Update: We're still finalizing the plan of action. Once everything is locked in, we'll be posting everything, so keep your eyes on Facebook, on Twitter and on our forums -- we'll make sure it goes everywhere. Thank you all again, we appreciate your support and patience."
They seem to be responding and providing updates on their facebook page.
Though I'm not even sure what's going on, as I spent this as one of my much needed days off where I just watch movies and relax in a lazy chair while eating chips and drinking soda. xD
OP - dude really you think you are the consummate consumer because you are charging back after a forum post / removal / ban. I hope you aren't going to Discover and saying you tried to resolve the problem first, because you didn't. Forums are not the place for account service, account service personnel don't read or post on forums, account service issues are handled by them privately. You tried to get something from forum moderators they can't give you. Why not admit it, you made the forum post to vent and rant and rave, you always planned on doing the charge back no matter what.
If you were really doing this in a conscientious way and trying to work with them you would have 1) seen what their "solution" is (I don't think there will be one, they are so screwed no matter what at this point) 2) if you weren't happy actually contact people who are responsible for account service 3) then charge back if not resolved.
You got pissed off, ragequit on a forum, then charged back your credit card charge is what you have actually done no matter how else you try to describe it.
Ah, Chinese modern business practice. Working as intended. Here are a list of some ancient Chinese proverbs that I think sum up the entire Neverwinter/PWI experience.
Falling into a ditch makes you wiser
Of all the strategems, to know when to quit is the best.
Add legs to the snake after you finish drawing it.
An Ant may well destroy a whole dam.
Butcher the donkey after it finishes the job on the mill.
This is what this company is known for. This is why they get the bad rap they do, well deserved I might add. Do yourself a favor and AVOID any PWI products. It will save you money and time and aggravation. This is why many countries look with skeptical eyes at China. A lot of their businesses practice the same heavy handed, customer-last methods.
It's not an Asian thing either, Japan is basically the opposite way. They do something wrong (FFXIV) and their is hell to pay and they own up to it.