Originally posted by mCalvert The thing that would make me come back is more action. Not strategy, but action. I want to steer my ship, aim and shoot stuff. I want to walk around inside a ship or station, engage in ground combat like DUST, walk around on a planet. Im not sure this is possible in EVE though, without pissing off the core players.
It's not that it would "piss off" the core players - most of us would probably love it (although in my experience, there's always someone who will complain about any change), it's that it would need a total redesign of the game engine.
EVE operates at 1 "tick" per second. Although your client fills in the gaps and smooths things out, the server only actually changes things once per second. This would need to be dozens of times faster to support the gameplay you're after, and the server hardware and internet infrastructure just doesn't exist.
Well that's what I mean. The changes necessary to implement some action would piss off core people who enjoy the more RTS style of combat that EVE has.
Well in the sense that EVE would need to become an instanced 16v16 combat sim yes, I suppose.
I think the main problem is the disconnect between how they portray the game vs the actual gameplay. Of course they want to show an exciting play experience but that's not the gameplay new users will find themselves in. Some realistic videos showing what the gameplay really is all about and how it is fun and unique would help. Splice some interviews during the giant battle scenes with players giving short descriptions of what their particular role is and what they are actually doing. One of the interviews should be a relatively new player stating how they are contributing even though they arent uber long time players. Watching the intro videos and then entering space for the first time can conjures a big WTF. I played for 3 months 2 years ago so maybe they already did this.
Also, it wouldn't hurt if your first mission was thinning the local space boar population and collecting some tusks in the process.
I think if CCP spiced up pve a bit more and gave high sec more purpose then it currently has, for instance Factional Warfare is great for pvp'ers but there really isn't much in the way of event styled pve at all, Would be nice to see npc events where players can team up spontaneously and fight waves of npc invasions gradually getting tougher and more rewarding ending in a boss or something. I also think a good bit of the ships could use visual overhauls to be more attractive prime example: Exhumers/barges look horrible compared to the new Venture Frigate, feel like a visual downgrade to me. Mining could use a little more excitement to, be nice to see resource rushes for multiple people to participate in and perhaps earn a free ship or a skill training booster for 12 hours or w/e the reward. Just some of my ideas sorry for the wall of text.
If the interface would be a bit more intuitive it would help the new player a lot. On the other hand I quite enjoy to figure out how the whole game functions. Guess its a good way to separate the wheat from the chaff
Originally posted by mCalvert The thing that would make me come back is more action. Not strategy, but action. I want to steer my ship, aim and shoot stuff. I want to walk around inside a ship or station, engage in ground combat like DUST, walk around on a planet. Im not sure this is possible in EVE though, without pissing off the core players.
It's not that it would "piss off" the core players - most of us would probably love it (although in my experience, there's always someone who will complain about any change), it's that it would need a total redesign of the game engine.
EVE operates at 1 "tick" per second. Although your client fills in the gaps and smooths things out, the server only actually changes things once per second. This would need to be dozens of times faster to support the gameplay you're after, and the server hardware and internet infrastructure just doesn't exist.
Well that's what I mean. The changes necessary to implement some action would piss off core people who enjoy the more RTS style of combat that EVE has.
Well in the sense that EVE would need to become an instanced 16v16 combat sim yes, I suppose.
I would hope they could find a way to make it open pvp.
Originally posted by Datastar Would be nice to see npc events where players can team up spontaneously and fight waves of npc invasions gradually getting tougher and more rewarding ending in a boss or something.
Originally posted by mCalvert The thing that would make me come back is more action. Not strategy, but action. I want to steer my ship, aim and shoot stuff. I want to walk around inside a ship or station, engage in ground combat like DUST, walk around on a planet. Im not sure this is possible in EVE though, without pissing off the core players.
It's not that it would "piss off" the core players - most of us would probably love it (although in my experience, there's always someone who will complain about any change), it's that it would need a total redesign of the game engine.
EVE operates at 1 "tick" per second. Although your client fills in the gaps and smooths things out, the server only actually changes things once per second. This would need to be dozens of times faster to support the gameplay you're after, and the server hardware and internet infrastructure just doesn't exist.
Well that's what I mean. The changes necessary to implement some action would piss off core people who enjoy the more RTS style of combat that EVE has.
Well in the sense that EVE would need to become an instanced 16v16 combat sim yes, I suppose.
I would hope they could find a way to make it open pvp.
That "way" would be fairly simple: simply provide servers that are a few hundred times more powerful than what we can get now, and make sure that gigabit connections are the accepted standard for internet connections, and CCP can get right on it.
I'll just go get a sandwich while you sort that out.
Originally posted by mCalvert The thing that would make me come back is more action. Not strategy, but action. I want to steer my ship, aim and shoot stuff. I want to walk around inside a ship or station, engage in ground combat like DUST, walk around on a planet. Im not sure this is possible in EVE though, without pissing off the core players.
It's not that it would "piss off" the core players - most of us would probably love it (although in my experience, there's always someone who will complain about any change), it's that it would need a total redesign of the game engine.
EVE operates at 1 "tick" per second. Although your client fills in the gaps and smooths things out, the server only actually changes things once per second. This would need to be dozens of times faster to support the gameplay you're after, and the server hardware and internet infrastructure just doesn't exist.
Well that's what I mean. The changes necessary to implement some action would piss off core people who enjoy the more RTS style of combat that EVE has.
Well in the sense that EVE would need to become an instanced 16v16 combat sim yes, I suppose.
I would hope they could find a way to make it open pvp.
That "way" would be fairly simple: simply provide servers that are a few hundred times more powerful than what we can get now, and make sure that gigabit connections are the accepted standard for internet connections, and CCP can get right on it.
I'll just go get a sandwich while you sort that out.
I don't think processing power / internet bandwith are even the main bottlenecks. Getting 32 players in a multiplayer arena synced is one thing and is quite difficult, but getting 2000 players synced for the purposes of a twitch gameplay is pure nightmare. Maybe doable in a perfect world when everyone is sitting on a grade-A cable with 10ms ping to the cluster. Not doable in a real world of 200+ms pings from all across the globe.
I would consider picking up EVE again if they introduce some form of boost to increase your skill training.
I remember losing interest in the game because the way to Electronic Warfare was gated to hell and back with so many pre-requisites that I thought "Screw it, this game doesnt offer me enough entertainment to keep me interested long enough to get to where I want."
Bring on Star Citizen, hopefully they will put the Action back into Space Sims.
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
I downloaded it for free trial and deleted the game after 10minutes......I played earth and beyond and loved it but I couldn't even finish the first tutorial mission in EVE
I wish the auction house (or trading system or whatever it's called) was easier to understand. Some of it is but most of it isn't. For example, I never understood if NPCs as well as PCs were buyers and sellers.
Originally posted by mCalvert The thing that would make me come back is more action. Not strategy, but action. I want to steer my ship, aim and shoot stuff. I want to walk around inside a ship or station, engage in ground combat like DUST, walk around on a planet. Im not sure this is possible in EVE though, without pissing off the core players.
It's not that it would "piss off" the core players - most of us would probably love it (although in my experience, there's always someone who will complain about any change), it's that it would need a total redesign of the game engine.
EVE operates at 1 "tick" per second. Although your client fills in the gaps and smooths things out, the server only actually changes things once per second. This would need to be dozens of times faster to support the gameplay you're after, and the server hardware and internet infrastructure just doesn't exist.
Well that's what I mean. The changes necessary to implement some action would piss off core people who enjoy the more RTS style of combat that EVE has.
Well in the sense that EVE would need to become an instanced 16v16 combat sim yes, I suppose.
I would hope they could find a way to make it open pvp.
That "way" would be fairly simple: simply provide servers that are a few hundred times more powerful than what we can get now, and make sure that gigabit connections are the accepted standard for internet connections, and CCP can get right on it.
I'll just go get a sandwich while you sort that out.
I don't think processing power / internet bandwith are even the main bottlenecks. Getting 32 players in a multiplayer arena synced is one thing and is quite difficult, but getting 2000 players synced for the purposes of a twitch gameplay is pure nightmare. Maybe doable in a perfect world when everyone is sitting on a grade-A cable with 10ms ping to the cluster. Not doable in a real world of 200+ms pings from all across the globe.
I know that it's a quantitavely and qualitatively different game but Star Wars Galaxies' Jump to Lightspeed managed to do tactical multi-ship space PVP extremely well. Though managing the dynamics of fifteen or twenty ships in combat is not the same as managing those of a thousand ships or more.
I use to play the game and the PvP side is ok, to me. ( I am not that much into ganking and hunting the weakest all the time, but I get it and am ok with it.) The PvE side sucks. To keep my interest I need both.
@CKPlay - What do you mean better control? Like action flying like as if you were in the cockpit? Suggestions have to make sense but imo eve's controls aren't that hard. Especially if you actually read the tutorials. You double click which direction you want to go, click the speed you want to go at... Beyond that everything is select your target and choose an action where everything is then handled for you by the computer.
@noncley - I like the trade system it makes it like a real economy. Things that are common in one area will be cheaper but if you go across the universe where it's rare it will be more expensive. There are both PC and NPC sell things. However the vast majority of them are from players (except maybe skillbooks). I don't know of any NPC buyers though.
I do see where you are coming from though. But, a basic auction house like in WoW would ruin EVE IMO. It makes prices too stagnant.
Originally posted by mastersomrat One word...Travel! I know it's a bit more realistic for travel to forever; however, this is a game. Most people simply don't have the time for one hour of game time and three hours of travel. Maybe some sort of StarTrek transporting tech.
What exactly are you doing that requires 3 of every 4 hours devoted to travel?
if he's a marketeer freighting things from jita to amarr and back I can see trips adding up to several hours...I regularly do a 3-system trip back and forth in a freighter and it takes 15 minutes.
If he's running a freighter between market hubs then he intentionally chose a profession that revolves around travel. Why complain then? Trade in the station in Jita if you don't want to travel.
Let's not get defensive - or indeed aggressive - about the length of time it takes to travel in Eve. It certainly does take a long time to get about. What might make the game better if there were activities that a player could undertake *while* travelling. I don't know what those activities might be.
Chatting is always a good one :P. It's actually a good example as to why it's nice to have a good corp. You might even be able to find someone to haul your stuff for you for free.
Originally posted by mastersomrat One word...Travel! I know it's a bit more realistic for travel to forever; however, this is a game. Most people simply don't have the time for one hour of game time and three hours of travel. Maybe some sort of StarTrek transporting tech.
What exactly are you doing that requires 3 of every 4 hours devoted to travel?
if he's a marketeer freighting things from jita to amarr and back I can see trips adding up to several hours...I regularly do a 3-system trip back and forth in a freighter and it takes 15 minutes.
If he's running a freighter between market hubs then he intentionally chose a profession that revolves around travel. Why complain then? Trade in the station in Jita if you don't want to travel.
Let's not get defensive - or indeed aggressive - about the length of time it takes to travel in Eve. It certainly does take a long time to get about. What might make the game better if there were activities that a player could undertake *while* travelling. I don't know what those activities might be.
I dunno, seemed like a reasonable reply to me. However, I like your suggestion of things to do while in flight. I usually chat with corpmates, go through assets or browse the regional markets but I can see how others would want something more.
Maybe rats that can pull you out of warp?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by mastersomrat One word...Travel! I know it's a bit more realistic for travel to forever; however, this is a game. Most people simply don't have the time for one hour of game time and three hours of travel. Maybe some sort of StarTrek transporting tech.
What exactly are you doing that requires 3 of every 4 hours devoted to travel?
if he's a marketeer freighting things from jita to amarr and back I can see trips adding up to several hours...I regularly do a 3-system trip back and forth in a freighter and it takes 15 minutes.
If he's running a freighter between market hubs then he intentionally chose a profession that revolves around travel. Why complain then? Trade in the station in Jita if you don't want to travel.
Let's not get defensive - or indeed aggressive - about the length of time it takes to travel in Eve. It certainly does take a long time to get about. What might make the game better if there were activities that a player could undertake *while* travelling. I don't know what those activities might be.
I dunno, seemed like a reasonable reply to me. However, I like your suggestion of things to do while in flight. I usually chat with corpmates, go through assets or browse the regional markets but I can see how others would want something more.
Originally posted by mastersomrat One word...Travel! I know it's a bit more realistic for travel to forever; however, this is a game. Most people simply don't have the time for one hour of game time and three hours of travel. Maybe some sort of StarTrek transporting tech.
What exactly are you doing that requires 3 of every 4 hours devoted to travel?
if he's a marketeer freighting things from jita to amarr and back I can see trips adding up to several hours...I regularly do a 3-system trip back and forth in a freighter and it takes 15 minutes.
If he's running a freighter between market hubs then he intentionally chose a profession that revolves around travel. Why complain then? Trade in the station in Jita if you don't want to travel.
Let's not get defensive - or indeed aggressive - about the length of time it takes to travel in Eve. It certainly does take a long time to get about. What might make the game better if there were activities that a player could undertake *while* travelling. I don't know what those activities might be.
I dunno, seemed like a reasonable reply to me. However, I like your suggestion of things to do while in flight. I usually chat with corpmates, go through assets or browse the regional markets but I can see how others would want something more.
Maybe rats that can pull you out of warp?
In flight peanuts and gambling.
SOMERBlink?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by mastersomrat One word...Travel! I know it's a bit more realistic for travel to forever; however, this is a game. Most people simply don't have the time for one hour of game time and three hours of travel. Maybe some sort of StarTrek transporting tech.
What exactly are you doing that requires 3 of every 4 hours devoted to travel?
if he's a marketeer freighting things from jita to amarr and back I can see trips adding up to several hours...I regularly do a 3-system trip back and forth in a freighter and it takes 15 minutes.
If he's running a freighter between market hubs then he intentionally chose a profession that revolves around travel. Why complain then? Trade in the station in Jita if you don't want to travel.
Let's not get defensive - or indeed aggressive - about the length of time it takes to travel in Eve. It certainly does take a long time to get about. What might make the game better if there were activities that a player could undertake *while* travelling. I don't know what those activities might be.
I dunno, seemed like a reasonable reply to me. However, I like your suggestion of things to do while in flight. I usually chat with corpmates, go through assets or browse the regional markets but I can see how others would want something more.
Maybe rats that can pull you out of warp?
Thargoids!
It's worth remembering that long travel times aren't put into EVE as an arbitrary way for CCP to increase your suffering. They're a part of the game design. The price differences that said freighter pilot is exploiting as his profession are only present at all because of travel time. If travel time was removed, then everything would cost the same everywhere. There would be no niches for new players to exploit. All the markets would be completely owned by the high skillpoint, highly capitalised players.
Of course that effect would be small beer compared to the effect on the strategic map. No travel overhead = the single most powerful group rules over everything.
Not that I play EvE anymore, but when I did travel long distances with valuable loot or whatever...my in flight activity was not getting ganked. Like scanning the gates, creating safespots along the differrent routes, checking the map with the "how many podkills in the last hour", etc.
Ofc, it's been over a year since I played but that's what I remember.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die Hiatus: EvE Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh) Interested in: better games in general
I'm looking for ideas to take to CCP. I'm not interested in stupid stuff like "Change EVE into being a PvE grind4epix" or ideas that would take 50 devs 2.5 years to implement, but small, developmentally affordable things that would help people who are attracted to EVE but ran into this roadblock or that dead end. Basically, stuff to smooth the path into the game.
To give an example of the kind of stuff I'm after: I had an idea to reform the NPC corps. At the moment, if you're not in a player corp, you default into an NPC corp which you don't even get to choose. I'd like to see NPC corps offer some small bonuses/penalties, advantages/drawbacks, restrictions/opportunities that basically make this NPC corp a natural choice for miners, that NPC corp a good choice for haulers, and so on. This would mean that people who don't want to be in a player corp, or just haven't managed to get into one that they like yet will still be in a community of people with similar interests. As well as having like-minded players to talk to, this would make for a good basis for new corps to be formed from.
There is simply too much griefing to attract any kind of "mainstream" player.
I played EVE off and on for years, love the game, hate most of the people. Seriously, there are dozens and dozens of different ways you can grief someone in EVE, its out of control.
Comments
Well in the sense that EVE would need to become an instanced 16v16 combat sim yes, I suppose.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I think the main problem is the disconnect between how they portray the game vs the actual gameplay. Of course they want to show an exciting play experience but that's not the gameplay new users will find themselves in. Some realistic videos showing what the gameplay really is all about and how it is fun and unique would help. Splice some interviews during the giant battle scenes with players giving short descriptions of what their particular role is and what they are actually doing. One of the interviews should be a relatively new player stating how they are contributing even though they arent uber long time players. Watching the intro videos and then entering space for the first time can conjures a big WTF. I played for 3 months 2 years ago so maybe they already did this.
Also, it wouldn't hurt if your first mission was thinning the local space boar population and collecting some tusks in the process.
If the interface would be a bit more intuitive it would help the new player a lot. On the other hand I quite enjoy to figure out how the whole game functions. Guess its a good way to separate the wheat from the chaff
I would hope they could find a way to make it open pvp.
You just described Incursions.
That "way" would be fairly simple: simply provide servers that are a few hundred times more powerful than what we can get now, and make sure that gigabit connections are the accepted standard for internet connections, and CCP can get right on it.
I'll just go get a sandwich while you sort that out.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I don't think processing power / internet bandwith are even the main bottlenecks. Getting 32 players in a multiplayer arena synced is one thing and is quite difficult, but getting 2000 players synced for the purposes of a twitch gameplay is pure nightmare. Maybe doable in a perfect world when everyone is sitting on a grade-A cable with 10ms ping to the cluster. Not doable in a real world of 200+ms pings from all across the globe.
I would consider picking up EVE again if they introduce some form of boost to increase your skill training.
I remember losing interest in the game because the way to Electronic Warfare was gated to hell and back with so many pre-requisites that I thought "Screw it, this game doesnt offer me enough entertainment to keep me interested long enough to get to where I want."
Bring on Star Citizen, hopefully they will put the Action back into Space Sims.
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
an easier control
I downloaded it for free trial and deleted the game after 10minutes......I played earth and beyond and loved it but I couldn't even finish the first tutorial mission in EVE
I know that it's a quantitavely and qualitatively different game but Star Wars Galaxies' Jump to Lightspeed managed to do tactical multi-ship space PVP extremely well. Though managing the dynamics of fifteen or twenty ships in combat is not the same as managing those of a thousand ships or more.
@CKPlay - What do you mean better control? Like action flying like as if you were in the cockpit? Suggestions have to make sense but imo eve's controls aren't that hard. Especially if you actually read the tutorials. You double click which direction you want to go, click the speed you want to go at... Beyond that everything is select your target and choose an action where everything is then handled for you by the computer.
@noncley - I like the trade system it makes it like a real economy. Things that are common in one area will be cheaper but if you go across the universe where it's rare it will be more expensive. There are both PC and NPC sell things. However the vast majority of them are from players (except maybe skillbooks). I don't know of any NPC buyers though.
I do see where you are coming from though. But, a basic auction house like in WoW would ruin EVE IMO. It makes prices too stagnant.
Let's not get defensive - or indeed aggressive - about the length of time it takes to travel in Eve. It certainly does take a long time to get about. What might make the game better if there were activities that a player could undertake *while* travelling. I don't know what those activities might be.
I dunno, seemed like a reasonable reply to me. However, I like your suggestion of things to do while in flight. I usually chat with corpmates, go through assets or browse the regional markets but I can see how others would want something more.
Maybe rats that can pull you out of warp?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
In flight peanuts and gambling.
SOMERBlink?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Thargoids!
It's worth remembering that long travel times aren't put into EVE as an arbitrary way for CCP to increase your suffering. They're a part of the game design. The price differences that said freighter pilot is exploiting as his profession are only present at all because of travel time. If travel time was removed, then everything would cost the same everywhere. There would be no niches for new players to exploit. All the markets would be completely owned by the high skillpoint, highly capitalised players.
Of course that effect would be small beer compared to the effect on the strategic map. No travel overhead = the single most powerful group rules over everything.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Not that I play EvE anymore, but when I did travel long distances with valuable loot or whatever...my in flight activity was not getting ganked. Like scanning the gates, creating safespots along the differrent routes, checking the map with the "how many podkills in the last hour", etc.
Ofc, it's been over a year since I played but that's what I remember.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
There is simply too much griefing to attract any kind of "mainstream" player.
I played EVE off and on for years, love the game, hate most of the people. Seriously, there are dozens and dozens of different ways you can grief someone in EVE, its out of control.