I'd rather not have any classes that have pets, minions, allies, companions or anything of the sort. They are basically just dead weight on the server. Replace the memory used on them with actual living players.
while we will get a little hate... AGREED!
You do not stand alone. I feel classes are a waste of time in this day and age.
Yes 3 people on a forum can't appreciate pet classes so lets not have any.
Great design philosophy. If we can't find enough people to not appreciate everything, maybe we can avoid having to make a game entirely!
Have you been paying any attention at all to this game's development???
The design philosophy is to get as many player-characters on screen in huge epic battles while retaining smooth, fluid gameplay at acceptable frame rates. Pets are a big drawback as they take as many resources as player-characters. For every pet you have on screen that limits the potential scope of the RvR battle.
I'm just going to let mr. meggs worry about performance. If one pet class per realm is going to break performance, then that is an embarrassing data point about the game engine and I hope they keep it to themselves.
It'd be better to say they think all pets are OP than to say their engine can't handle 20% of their players having one pet.
Originally posted by povilezaz I would love to see mele clas with Spear and shield . Way too few games that implement this imo . Could use chain armor and heavy shield .
Seems a very appropriate class option for the vikings.
DAoC does have valkyre, spear-shield melee/hybrid class and it really fit in well in the mythos imo
Yah valkyrie is quite similar to what I want the only difference is that I would love to see 1h spears in this game .
How about instead of classes, they go with professions that have to be worked on. If it's to be a sandbox type game, archetypal classes tend to defeat the purpose of the sandbox. Start of as a commoner and go to various trainers who set you upon tasks to develop skills. Keeps players open to develop as they wish.
Originally posted by povilezaz I would love to see mele clas with Spear and shield . Way too few games that implement this imo . Could use chain armor and heavy shield .
Seems a very appropriate class option for the vikings.
DAoC does have valkyre, spear-shield melee/hybrid class and it really fit in well in the mythos imo
Yah valkyrie is quite similar to what I want the only difference is that I would love to see 1h spears in this game .
When i wrote it the spear was 1h in my head Spear of Kings could be 1h, didnt count as a spear but was one
I'd rather not have any classes that have pets, minions, allies, companions or anything of the sort. They are basically just dead weight on the server. Replace the memory used on them with actual living players.
while we will get a little hate... AGREED!
You do not stand alone. I feel classes are a waste of time in this day and age.
Yes 3 people on a forum can't appreciate pet classes so lets not have any.
Great design philosophy. If we can't find enough people to not appreciate everything, maybe we can avoid having to make a game entirely!
Have you been paying any attention at all to this game's development???
The design philosophy is to get as many player-characters on screen in huge epic battles while retaining smooth, fluid gameplay at acceptable frame rates. Pets are a big drawback as they take as many resources as player-characters. For every pet you have on screen that limits the potential scope of the RvR battle.
I'm just going to let mr. meggs worry about performance. If one pet class per realm is going to break performance, then that is an embarrassing data point about the game engine and I hope they keep it to themselves.
It'd be better to say they think all pets are OP than to say their engine can't handle 20% of their players having one pet.
A pet is a rendered character. So sure if you have a dozen players fighting each other there shouldnt be any issue with having a couple pets. But if you have 500 players fighting and 20% of them have pets, thats 100 pets.
Regardless of how powerful the engine is, there is some theoretical point at which you encounter lag. 20 pets in view is 20 fewer players you can have in view before you experience lag. 50 pets in view is 50 fewer players you can have in view before you experience lag.
And yes thats obviously not exact, its an approximation simplified down to be easily understood, so dont come back saying "a pet will be fewer polys than a player!". The simple point boils down to: Fewer pets = More players without lag.
Then add in the fact that you can accomplish the same effects mechanically without graphically rendering something. DPS pets are dots, Tank pets are basically a form of root, pets that explode are AOEs, etc.
Oh and thats all without even mentioning the absolute nightmare that is AI pathing in a heavily player generated world.
I'd like a variety of classes and not just mirrors like today's mmos do. You know, a class that combines one or two aspects of enemy classes. (Something like daoc)
For example : Class A has a similar ability with Class C and B
Class B has a similar ability with Class A and D and so on.
But in the end, every realm has the whole set of things needed completed. This could result in different gameplay styles depending on the trinity style of the above classes.
How about instead of classes, they go with professions that have to be worked on. If it's to be a sandbox type game, archetypal classes tend to defeat the purpose of the sandbox. Start of as a commoner and go to various trainers who set you upon tasks to develop skills. Keeps players open to develop as they wish.
The game will be class-based, so there's not much point in discussing that type of open system (for this game).
The Norse pacifation healer in DAoC was the perfect class. Didn't see it in any other game. It was the core class of any 8vs8 group. This class made or broke good groups. I liked being in a responsible position. It should be in this game again.
A pet does not effect server load. Players effect server load.
Pets are just another object rendered by the client.
I wish people would just leave suggestions for what they want and let the people that actually understand game performance worry about the game's performance. But fuck it, we argue about everything here. Lets make it turn based to save on bandwidth.
A pet does not effect server load. Players effect server load.
Pets are just another object rendered by the client.
I wish people would just leave suggestions for what they want and let the people that actually understand game performance worry about the game's performance. But fuck it, we argue about everything here. Lets make it turn based to save on bandwidth.
This needs to end here.
The design philosophy vis-a-vis pets (that you criticized, I described and Taldier clearly explained) represents Mark Jacobs' take on the subject. Mark indicated there would not be pets at launch based on this philosophy. I dare say he knows a fair bit more about game design and performance than you, my ill-informed friend.
A pet does not effect server load. Players effect server load.
Pets are just another object rendered by the client.
I wish people would just leave suggestions for what they want and let the people that actually understand game performance worry about the game's performance. But fuck it, we argue about everything here. Lets make it turn based to save on bandwidth.
Pets are extra models for the client to render, which means reduced framerate. That's CSE's main argument for not having pet classes at launch.
A pet does not effect server load. Players effect server load.
Pets are just another object rendered by the client.
I wish people would just leave suggestions for what they want and let the people that actually understand game performance worry about the game's performance. But fuck it, we argue about everything here. Lets make it turn based to save on bandwidth.
This needs to end here.
The design philosophy via-a-vis pets (that you criticized, I described and Taldier clearly explained) represents Mark Jacobs' take on the subject. Mark indicated there would not be pets at launch based on this philosophy. I dare say he knows a fair bit more about game design and performance than you, my ill-informed friend.
If this is true, and Andrew Meggs is spending his time to make a proprietary game engine specifically for rendering thousands of models on screen at the same time, making it THE MMO capable of handling the most models, making it an engine that could handle more pets than any other MMO.
If Mr. Meggs thinks his engine can't handle 1 class per realm having a pet, then I'll shut up. Do I think MJ knows anything about game engines? I'm willing to be he knows about 1/100th as much as Andrew.
So don't call me ill informed unless you're secretly him. And yes it does need to end here. Leave a suggestion for classes you want to see and stop pretending you know anything about technology.
My favorite classes of all time in any game were the DAoC Theurgist, Necromancer, Bonedancer, Animist, Friar, Savage, Minstrel. Although a class that was melee but could tame pets like in the original SWG would be great. I also liked the witch doctor from Diablo 3 mainly because it was cool to throw jars of spiders.
I know they won't have pet classes at launch, so I'll probably wait to play till they get their act together and put them in the game.
Mainly just give classes that are interesting, not just classes that fit a cookie cutter build like WoW. I don't want to just be the Tank/Dps/Healer. I want my class to have character.
A skill distribution system a la Asheron's Call or (non-mmo example) Skyrim would be much more appealing to me.
Build your own character
noooooooooooooooooooooo :O
take a look at GW2! WvW is a mess. its chaos. because of two things.
1. no enemy and ally collision. (leading to blob-trains steamrolling everything. you know, 50 people squished in one square meter. no use for choke points, gates, tanks... etc.)
2. no distinct roles. (leading to chaotic combat, where its pretty much everyone for themselves, everyone is self-sufficient, which doesnt promote cooperation)
A pet does not effect server load. Players effect server load.
Pets are just another object rendered by the client.
I wish people would just leave suggestions for what they want and let the people that actually understand game performance worry about the game's performance. But fuck it, we argue about everything here. Lets make it turn based to save on bandwidth.
This needs to end here.
The design philosophy via-a-vis pets (that you criticized, I described and Taldier clearly explained) represents Mark Jacobs' take on the subject. Mark indicated there would not be pets at launch based on this philosophy. I dare say he knows a fair bit more about game design and performance than you, my ill-informed friend.
If this is true, and Andrew Meggs is spending his time to make a proprietary game engine specifically for rendering thousands of models on screen at the same time, making it THE MMO capable of handling the most models, making it an engine that could handle more pets than any other MMO.
If Mr. Meggs thinks his engine can't handle 1 class per realm having a pet, then I'll shut up. Do I think MJ knows anything about game engines? I'm willing to be he knows about 1/100th as much as Andrew.
So don't call me ill informed unless you're secretly him. And yes it does need to end here. Leave a suggestion for classes you want to see and stop pretending you know anything about technology.
I think the "ill informed" reference was not about your knowledge of programming, but about your knowledge of what MJ has publicly stated... which is that there will be no pets or pet classes specifically to reduce lag and keep FPS high.
Keeping that in mind, I hope the discussion of pets and pet classes is now concluded.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
Comments
I'm just going to let mr. meggs worry about performance. If one pet class per realm is going to break performance, then that is an embarrassing data point about the game engine and I hope they keep it to themselves.
It'd be better to say they think all pets are OP than to say their engine can't handle 20% of their players having one pet.
Yah valkyrie is quite similar to what I want the only difference is that I would love to see 1h spears in this game .
How about instead of classes, they go with professions that have to be worked on. If it's to be a sandbox type game, archetypal classes tend to defeat the purpose of the sandbox. Start of as a commoner and go to various trainers who set you upon tasks to develop skills. Keeps players open to develop as they wish.
When i wrote it the spear was 1h in my head
Spear of Kings could be 1h, didnt count as a spear but was one 
A pet is a rendered character. So sure if you have a dozen players fighting each other there shouldnt be any issue with having a couple pets. But if you have 500 players fighting and 20% of them have pets, thats 100 pets.
Regardless of how powerful the engine is, there is some theoretical point at which you encounter lag. 20 pets in view is 20 fewer players you can have in view before you experience lag. 50 pets in view is 50 fewer players you can have in view before you experience lag.
And yes thats obviously not exact, its an approximation simplified down to be easily understood, so dont come back saying "a pet will be fewer polys than a player!". The simple point boils down to: Fewer pets = More players without lag.
Then add in the fact that you can accomplish the same effects mechanically without graphically rendering something. DPS pets are dots, Tank pets are basically a form of root, pets that explode are AOEs, etc.
Oh and thats all without even mentioning the absolute nightmare that is AI pathing in a heavily player generated world.
It'd be better to say they think all pets are OP than to say their engine can't handle 20% of their players having one pet.
I don't feel that a 20% increase in server load is worth the pleasure of a couple furries.
I'd like a variety of classes and not just mirrors like today's mmos do. You know, a class that combines one or two aspects of enemy classes. (Something like daoc)
For example : Class A has a similar ability with Class C and B
Class B has a similar ability with Class A and D and so on.
But in the end, every realm has the whole set of things needed completed. This could result in different gameplay styles depending on the trinity style of the above classes.
The game will be class-based, so there's not much point in discussing that type of open system (for this game).
The Norse pacifation healer in DAoC was the perfect class. Didn't see it in any other game. It was the core class of any 8vs8 group. This class made or broke good groups. I liked being in a responsible position. It should be in this game again.
+ strong single and group heals
+ strong crowd control
+ weak damage dealer
Wow I'm starting to hate this forum.
A pet does not effect server load. Players effect server load.
Pets are just another object rendered by the client.
I wish people would just leave suggestions for what they want and let the people that actually understand game performance worry about the game's performance. But fuck it, we argue about everything here. Lets make it turn based to save on bandwidth.
This needs to end here.
The design philosophy vis-a-vis pets (that you criticized, I described and Taldier clearly explained) represents Mark Jacobs' take on the subject. Mark indicated there would not be pets at launch based on this philosophy. I dare say he knows a fair bit more about game design and performance than you, my ill-informed friend.
Shadowbane's Prelate - Healing, defense and buffs. I think it was a stamina buff if I remember correctly. I chose dwarf to be all tough and drunk.
And they gave me a clay golem to command! Gotta love the pets... right?
Pets are extra models for the client to render, which means reduced framerate. That's CSE's main argument for not having pet classes at launch.
If this is true, and Andrew Meggs is spending his time to make a proprietary game engine specifically for rendering thousands of models on screen at the same time, making it THE MMO capable of handling the most models, making it an engine that could handle more pets than any other MMO.
If Mr. Meggs thinks his engine can't handle 1 class per realm having a pet, then I'll shut up. Do I think MJ knows anything about game engines? I'm willing to be he knows about 1/100th as much as Andrew.
So don't call me ill informed unless you're secretly him. And yes it does need to end here. Leave a suggestion for classes you want to see and stop pretending you know anything about technology.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
My favorite classes of all time in any game were the DAoC Theurgist, Necromancer, Bonedancer, Animist, Friar, Savage, Minstrel. Although a class that was melee but could tame pets like in the original SWG would be great. I also liked the witch doctor from Diablo 3 mainly because it was cool to throw jars of spiders.
I know they won't have pet classes at launch, so I'll probably wait to play till they get their act together and put them in the game.
Mainly just give classes that are interesting, not just classes that fit a cookie cutter build like WoW. I don't want to just be the Tank/Dps/Healer. I want my class to have character.
noooooooooooooooooooooo :O
take a look at GW2! WvW is a mess. its chaos. because of two things.
1. no enemy and ally collision. (leading to blob-trains steamrolling everything. you know, 50 people squished in one square meter. no use for choke points, gates, tanks... etc.)
2. no distinct roles. (leading to chaotic combat, where its pretty much everyone for themselves, everyone is self-sufficient, which doesnt promote cooperation)
I think the "ill informed" reference was not about your knowledge of programming, but about your knowledge of what MJ has publicly stated... which is that there will be no pets or pet classes specifically to reduce lag and keep FPS high.
Keeping that in mind, I hope the discussion of pets and pet classes is now concluded.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
A Rogue (Yes, the true rogue class.)
A Cleric like the one in Rift.