Originally posted by evilastro Not surprised. With the quality of F2P competition out there now, I don't think any game can really compete without adapting. WoW will probably go F2P when it dips to 5 million.
Of course games can compete. people will pay the sub if the game warrants it. There are still TONs of sub payers out there playing lotro, eq2, TERA, whatever. There is a very large group of people that prefer subs. EvE isnt having any issues, is it?
EvE is a bad example. Most if not all high ranked players are NOT paying monthly sub. They just buy PLEX because its just easier with ingame value. Last time i checked it, it was around 500-600kk not that much in EVE's universe. Me and my brother used to run 3-4 accounts without paying a monthly sub. It is doable. A thing like PLEX is ingenious, I don't know why other sub games are not buying into it, making it a tradeable item
I was playing Rift off and on, but not enough to justify the sub. My wife got into GW2 (Which I personally don't enjoy) and we kept at it because it was free, not because we thought it was better.
I've even been dabbling in Vanguard.. Not a bad game either.
Originally posted by evilastro Not surprised. With the quality of F2P competition out there now, I don't think any game can really compete without adapting. WoW will probably go F2P when it dips to 5 million.
Of course games can compete. people will pay the sub if the game warrants it. There are still TONs of sub payers out there playing lotro, eq2, TERA, whatever. There is a very large group of people that prefer subs. EvE isnt having any issues, is it?
EvE is a bad example. Most if not all high ranked players are NOT paying monthly sub. They just buy PLEX because its just easier with ingame value. Last time i checked it, it was around 500-600kk not that much in EVE's universe. Me and my brother used to run 3-4 accounts without paying a monthly sub. It is doable. A thing like PLEX is ingenious, I don't know why other sub games are not buying into it
System that both bring advantage of microtransactions (wealthy or addicted or stupid players may spend alot of money) and avoid microtranaction stigma in many of p2p players eyes.
It's genius in it's own way. It's not true other games did not try it. Perpettum use same system and TERA actually did use Plex-like system when it was P2P. Guess TERA owners decided that Cash Shop will bring more. money than their Plex-like system (Chronoscrolls).
Anyway - for me game with PLEX-like system is not P2P game anymore. Not in my definion of it.
My times playing mmorpg's are over - well or at least on very long hiatus if mmorpg market will change somewhere in the future.
Surprised this didn't happen a year ago. Credit where credit is due, they lasted so long as a sub because they really did produce a lot of post-launch content and at times were very responsive to their community. I find the gameplay itself pretty lackluster, it's just not different enough from WoW and the rest, but I have been wanting to check out the housing and I always thought the soul system was a great concept. I might even pick up the expansion and basic game combo since it's really cheap. Can't go wrong with spending $20 to come and go when I please from now until server shutdown. And I doubt server shutdown is a likely event anytime in the next few years.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Originally posted by Siveria IMO if they put in any buyable with rl cash gear thats is anywhere near equil to raid gear, is going to destroy the end game pretty much, Should keep any gear out of the cash shop. I'd personally buy some wardrobe outfits if they were priced like 5 bucks for a set, but I refuse to pay 10 or more for a deco outfit. Give me a maid outfit with the hairband and I will buy that in a second.
Also they say they don't want to seregate, yet they seregated the pve and pvp crouds due to pvp gear having an extra special stat, that kinda proves they are lying right there imo. If I raid I should be able to do both without having to grind out a pvp gearset.
I can't think of one Western Triple-A publisher that has a P2W system. Those are usually the realm of the Asian F2P grinders. I know alot of people claim certain F2P titles are P2W but in all actuality the items being sold are for convenience or time saving.
Theres a big difference between buying say a XP potion that increases XP rate by 25% or a key to a lockbax that contains a weapon that is of like value and stat as the initial level cap gear. P2W is buying a piece of gear that has more stats then what can be acquired through in-game means.
Considering that you cannot equip epics without paying in SWTOR, is that not P2W?
I played in closed beta and for a few months after release. Enjoyed the game, but not enough to justify a sub given that I play so infrequently these days, and like to game-hope. I'll definitely give it another go now. Hope it is a success for Trion and all the players.
Originally posted by MagusGW I'm very disappointed that Trion went this route. F2P always seems to micro transact the crap out of everything. As far as no tricks or traps of course there wont be any, we have seen them all by now. People have gotten used to what happens to a MMO that goes from subs to F2P. F2P ruined Fallen Earth it made me hate SWTOR and made AoC unbearable as well. Get rdy to start paying for extra toon slots, extra bars for your abilities and you have to pay for macros lol. It may be a bit of an exaggeration but you get the idea. The fact that the game will be flooded with immature children put the last nail in the coffin that's Rift for me. Sorry Trion ill add you to my F2P black list. You have lost another longtime player.
So because you do not like the limitations that are put upon those players who choose not to pay the monthly fee, you also will not pay the game. That makes absolutely no sense. You do realize you can continue to pay for the game and play exactly how you are today. F2P is an option, not a requirement. So if anything the conversion is giving you MORE for your money. In addition to everything you get now without the limitations of F2P, you will receive perks you were not getting before. Cost is the same you have always paid and by the sounds of it want to pay, but now you get things that you did not get before. If not going to F2P you would then be forced to pay, you now have options and benefits you did not have before
My guild is taking this announcment hard, and if Trion thinks people have been asking for it they are seeing a minority. *0% white noise to drown out the rest of us who don't want it.
So they are going freemium, enjoy not making as much as Asian F2P games...will they never learn? Not one, not one single game that does this can match the revenue of one of the top true F2P games with micro-transactions.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
As I mentioned in another thread, I could be reading this wrong, but it looks as though they knew before SL was complete that they would going free to play sometime after the launch of SL. So they wanted that to be a paid expansion even though they knew they would be going f2p. After looking at the faq, the only thing that owning the SL seems to get you are access to the two souls (class types) that launched with SL. They said that all content will be accessable to everyone. So they sold the xpac knowing they were going f2p and that all content would be available for free. I'm not sure what I think about that. I understand the need to maximize revenue, but something about that just feels a bit...off.
Originally posted by niceguy3978 As I mentioned in another thread, I could be reading this wrong, but it looks as though they knew before SL was complete that they would going free to play sometime after the launch of SL. So they wanted that to be a paid expansion even though they knew they would be going f2p. After looking at the faq, the only thing that owning the SL seems to get you are access to the two souls (class types) that launched with SL. They said that all content will be accessable to everyone. So they sold the xpac knowing they were going f2p and that all content would be available for free. I'm not sure what I think about that. I understand the need to maximize revenue, but something about that just feels a bit...off.
That's a really good point, basically an incredibly low value for anyone who bought Storm Legion recently, sucks for me.
Edit: Thanks for pointing that out. I boxed that shit up and returned it to amazon, hadn't opened it yet.
Wow that is a Kick in the ball to all pay to players out there. I'm kind of shocked to hear this. I'm literally l on Wuut brain mode right now. But I honestly can't blame them. Rift is like and I hate to admit this, but it felt like a dark horror version of World of Warcraft to me. All those classes they have could have stood on their own. But hey we all know when it comes to make a mmo now days, their is no such thing as risk and reward anymore.
Originally posted by anjealous82 Wow that is a Kick in the ball to all pay to players out there. I'm kind of shocked to hear this. I'm literally l on Wuut brain mode right now. But I honestly can't blame them. Rift is like and I hate to admit this, but it felt like a dark horror version of World of Warcraft to me. All those classes they have could have stood on their own. But hey we all know when it comes to make a mmo now days, their is no such thing as risk and reward anymore.
They are still keeping the option for sub and for those who bought 3 months or more in advance will have their sub continued after the change and get the new game currency for it to spend on in game shop.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Siveria IMO if they put in any buyable with rl cash gear thats is anywhere near equil to raid gear, is going to destroy the end game pretty much, Should keep any gear out of the cash shop. I'd personally buy some wardrobe outfits if they were priced like 5 bucks for a set, but I refuse to pay 10 or more for a deco outfit. Give me a maid outfit with the hairband and I will buy that in a second.
Also they say they don't want to seregate, yet they seregated the pve and pvp crouds due to pvp gear having an extra special stat, that kinda proves they are lying right there imo. If I raid I should be able to do both without having to grind out a pvp gearset.
I can't think of one Western Triple-A publisher that has a P2W system. Those are usually the realm of the Asian F2P grinders. I know alot of people claim certain F2P titles are P2W but in all actuality the items being sold are for convenience or time saving.
Theres a big difference between buying say a XP potion that increases XP rate by 25% or a key to a lockbax that contains a weapon that is of like value and stat as the initial level cap gear. P2W is buying a piece of gear that has more stats then what can be acquired through in-game means.
Considering that you cannot equip epics without paying in SWTOR, is that not P2W?
No, SWTOR is Sub 2 Win, which is a perfectly acceptable model. Cheapskates don't like it much though.
Comments
EvE is a bad example. Most if not all high ranked players are NOT paying monthly sub. They just buy PLEX because its just easier with ingame value. Last time i checked it, it was around 500-600kk not that much in EVE's universe. Me and my brother used to run 3-4 accounts without paying a monthly sub. It is doable. A thing like PLEX is ingenious, I don't know why other sub games are not buying into it, making it a tradeable item
This is PERFECT for me.
I was playing Rift off and on, but not enough to justify the sub. My wife got into GW2 (Which I personally don't enjoy) and we kept at it because it was free, not because we thought it was better.
I've even been dabbling in Vanguard.. Not a bad game either.
But now Rift? Helllllooooooo Telara.
System that both bring advantage of microtransactions (wealthy or addicted or stupid players may spend alot of money) and avoid microtranaction stigma in many of p2p players eyes.
It's genius in it's own way. It's not true other games did not try it. Perpettum use same system and TERA actually did use Plex-like system when it was P2P. Guess TERA owners decided that Cash Shop will bring more. money than their Plex-like system (Chronoscrolls).
Anyway - for me game with PLEX-like system is not P2P game anymore. Not in my definion of it.
My times playing mmorpg's are over - well or at least on very long hiatus if mmorpg market will change somewhere in the future.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
SUP
Considering that you cannot equip epics without paying in SWTOR, is that not P2W?
So because you do not like the limitations that are put upon those players who choose not to pay the monthly fee, you also will not pay the game. That makes absolutely no sense. You do realize you can continue to pay for the game and play exactly how you are today. F2P is an option, not a requirement. So if anything the conversion is giving you MORE for your money. In addition to everything you get now without the limitations of F2P, you will receive perks you were not getting before. Cost is the same you have always paid and by the sounds of it want to pay, but now you get things that you did not get before. If not going to F2P you would then be forced to pay, you now have options and benefits you did not have before
At Last!
Fight for refund? Less time had passed since you bought - more chance to get it propably.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
That's a really good point, basically an incredibly low value for anyone who bought Storm Legion recently, sucks for me.
Edit: Thanks for pointing that out. I boxed that shit up and returned it to amazon, hadn't opened it yet.
They are still keeping the option for sub and for those who bought 3 months or more in advance will have their sub continued after the change and get the new game currency for it to spend on in game shop.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
No, SWTOR is Sub 2 Win, which is a perfectly acceptable model. Cheapskates don't like it much though.