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[Column] General: Stereotyping Men in Videogames
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
It's no secret that women's roles in the gaming industry and in games themselves have been a big part of the news this past year. But what about stereotypical males roles? In Fair Game today, we take a look at that. See what you think before heading to the comments.
About a month after the start of the TvW Kickstarter campaign, (in probably the first ever, non-election-related feud via public funding) a dissenting group began an IndieGogo campaign called Tropes vs. Men. Their purpose, as I understand it, was twofold: First, to show Ms. Saekeesian that her request for $6,000 was over the top, and that the videos could be made for half that amount (which was their funding goal.) And secondly as, “An analysis of male roles and misandry present in modern video game media”
Read more of Lisa Jonte's Fair Game: Stereotyping Men in Videogames.
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Don't worry, I'll totally avenge the insult to my honor that was your brutal, pointless murder.
Comments
I have never understood this kind of stuff.. I have played video games since the very early years of my life back in the late 80's and I have seen everyone represented in various ways.. Good bad and ugly, everyone has a right to be upset, but at the same time everyone has an obligation to learn from it and move on..
We are all pawns of the media.. Women are supposed to be overly sexual and acquiescent to the whims of men.. And men are supposed to be the chiseled chin warriors..
We see it in magazines, commercials, music videos,movies and of course video games... It is in our culture and many do not disagree with the stereotypes.. The average person just follows them..
I don't think this is a fault of games or even game developers but society as a whole. It permeates every aspect of our lives in the United States (Doubting it's the same everywhere). Art, this includes games, is all about holding up a mirror and it's doing a great job. Fixing games won't fix the issue. It certainly wouldn't hurt but I think that's the same as putting a band-aid on a shotgun wound.
Some games actually do a great job of giving players all kinds of options as to how their hero is portrayed. Far superior to most mediums. For instance, in my current game I am playing a wiry half-elf bard that has a penchant for theft and finds melee combat distasteful. Honestly, I think a lot of games need to be rewarded, not chastised, for allowing this sort of experimentation.
Thanks ladies for defending my manly yet stereotyped HONORRRRRR! ARRRRRRHHHH!!!!!!!!!
...not really
Unfortunately, Video Games, et al, are businesses, not moral compasses. What sells is sex and violence. It is what the public wants. It is what sells.
It is also the prevailing "sexual role concept" in the world today: "Man = Protector" and "Woman = Nurturer". It will be a long, long while before that changes, if ever. A few "enlightened folk" will not change that very fast, or well.
Then, again, look at "Why" people partake in these activities. Is it so that they can be mundane, everyday people? For some, maybe, but the majority look to be something different, possibly better than what they are in real life. Would a man create a fat, slovenly,emotionally wrought, sly character? Possibly. But not many would. I don't see a lot of clamor to be an Ogrim in TES:O. Same with women. I don't not know of many women who desire to make their characters obese, wart-faced objects of desire. Are there many who want to play Hagravens in the TES universe?
Could games make games like you suggest? Certainly. Would they sell? No.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I tinker, I fish, I farm. My tropes are there, they're just at the edges.
If anything, games tend to be light on some parts of archetypical male fantasy - sure there's some rather revealing armour out there, but how many quests to slay dragons actually offer a princess' hand in marriage as the reward?
I don't think it's that likely that males would find the video game male stereotypes offensive. That's why it almost never comes up in conversation or in studies. Something has to actually be found offensive before anyone bothers with discussing it or doing something about it.
Really, I think it's far more likely that females would find the male stereotypes offensive because those male stereotypes require the female stereotypes. The violent hero/anti-hero doesn't really have a place in a world without a Damsel In Distress.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
is this an article about what is wrong with anglo-american culture?
Maybe the current tropes in video games are just a microcosm or fractured reflection or simplification (depending on your viewpoint) of wider cultural issues.
I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone
This is not so much a video game issue, as it is an Western societal issue. Western game developers, mainly, are just catering to the masses for entertainment, and if what the people want is huge muscled up angry brutes, then that's what they're gonna create.
The Japanese game developers like to throw in a big muscular dude here and there (and some of their games are all about them, still) but they seem to be more about how it's not the size of the protagonist, but their mental will to complete the task. They also have their emotional extremes, but I've seen more happy heroes from Asian games in general than from the Western games, as well as male heroes that will break down and cry more often.
Just my experience, though. I may have just missed all the games that counter what I said on both sides of the world.
A monster kills "Bob."
"Bob! NOOOOoooooo!" <character falls into a heap, holding onto Bob>
A monster kills the player. <player dies>
Emotions have their place. Video games based on killing are not the place.
Ever notice in movies or books that when a character "takes the time" to give their heart-rending speech about their love for a just-killed friend, the killer ALWAYS waits for them to finish their speech?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
I don't think the physique of characters has much effect on guys. Kratos is a good example- I played god of war but didn't really even notice his super buffness. (I just now realized he's grey?) And this is less of an issue in MMO's anyway since we get to pick how our characters look. Skinny, normal, ripped, and even tubby are often up to the player.
/scratch jock, belch.
Whut?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Your secret is safe with the internet.
Does compensating-for-something megaswords count? Kind of the gaming spiritual inverse of the sailor moon skirt.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Yeah . . . secret . . . I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Your battling against a very well oiled machine here. Its called society and gender roles, that we hard bred into ourselves and children.
Its disgusting and horrible but its true.
Damsels will always need saving cause women "enjoy being saved" and Men will always swing in with their swords and fight the main bad guy cause "I have to save the day" that is what we were raised on.
There is exceptions but in general this is the usual idea most go with. Fairy-tales, books, TV, games. Its hardwired into our psyche.
To get to my point, 2 examples:
My 14 year old son will buy the next Call of Duty game even though its the same dribble for the last 6 iterations. Why? Cause its "cool" even though I detest the violence and repetitive gameplay. It sold MILLIONS of units! We thrive off aggression and violence.
Secondly
ANY MMO is loaded with sexism. Every time I see bikini mail I chuckle. Sex sells! I don't really need to expand on this cause its really obvious.
I asked my son to use 1 word to describe why he likes his 2 favorite games his answers: "Zombies" and "Master Chief"--- (which isnt one word
) but you get the idea.
There is hope though....for one you can choose to not simply partake in that media and teach your children to respect life, people, religions and the opposite sex but we are all human and all make mistakes.
We are evolving our media and I think as time passes, characters are becoming more compelling and emotionally driven. Its why I watch the Walking Dead...that show has many gender roles but also deep characters with many insecurities and fears. I will try to think of a game that bridges the stereotypes and is a good step forward.
Do you know one?
MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!
Someone pointed out in another thread that while the stereotypes definitely exist, they are probably not as prevalent as (some) people would like to believe. So while I disagree with the statement that there's no evidence for stereotypes existing, it's entirely possible that someone could play video games and not really run into them.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I'm just so not sure what to do with this....
Back to reality, though, I remember reading the Dragonlance books in my teens. Don't know if anyone else has read them but there are twin brothers, Caramon and Raistlin. Raistlin was a frail mage and Caramon was a strong, burly warrior. I remember thinking that while Caramon was likely the better looking of the two (read: stereotype) Raistlin was the brilliant, ill-understood misanthrope. My emo heart naturally went out to Raistlin, but sterotypes that I'd agreed upon believed that Caramon was the fairer of the two.
This begs the old questions of why people would prefer to play the opposite gender. I've only played my gender, but I do know that a lot of people choose the opposite one. Maybe it has something to do with that stereotype?
Played: Ultima Online - DaoC - WoW -
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Women traded their body for security and resources at day one and that model worked for a very long time because it was simple and kept the population going. While these days security isn't an issue and resources are readily available it's still going to take a long time to breed out +100k years of hard wired behaviors - it'll change but by evolution not revolution.
Having said that I'm mid 40's and have been playing games a long time - I've met and become good friends with over 50 people (men and women) and have honestly never met a bad person. Some qwerky but not bad. I can still remember the first time I traveled on a train to a capital city to met my Quake Clan members for the country championships - heart was racing but in the end the whole weekend is one I'll always remember - if not thru trying to drink it away. Gaming has been a great compliment to my RL overall.
PS: The reason I always play female characters is the over amplification of the male characters - cant stand looking at them.
I never put much faith in amateur psychology. People tend to see things as too black and white. Why we do things is never as simple as the couple of lines in a post make them out to be.
btw guys have more than one emotion...you forgot hungry and horny.