A correction appears to be in order. The most common mmo style of many years ago appears to be Dead, provided you just don't play any of those (still open) games.
We buried grandpa, cause he was still breathing, but wouldn't do much of anything else we expected gramps to do. So we blamed everyone else in the family for his lack of energy, and called the coroner, expecting to appear in his will.
Oddly, no one else seemed real interested in making a just-like-new grandpa and beginning the cycle all over again.
'Cause previous efforts along that line were tried, and didn't actually generate the always-promised magical revival of the entire Grandpa species.
Nevertheless, there's always someone (often many someones) insisting we try again with one more Grandpa.
People are not reading the thread title: "MMORPGs are dead." NOT "MMOs are dead." Huge difference there.
MMOACGs [Action Combat Games] are very much alive and kicking, flourishing and ever increasing.
MMORPGs are dead. - Gone are the living worlds with players that logged in day after day for years on end. - Gone are the various "boring" activities that made a game fun for many (and actually paid). - Gone is the long, long road to a barely existent end game. - Gone are the relaxing times had in these online worlds, the much demonized "downtime."
Soon, we will have MMOs (not MMORPGs) with an "I Win!" button. That is all that players today want, right? How much more efficient can one be than an "I Win!" button? Accomplishes the same thing in a fraction of the time. Then a player can move on to the next game quicker. Maybe that is not enough buttons to push. Maybe a combo of 3 or 6 buttons? Maybe I am wrong here...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Antiquated We buried grandpa, cause he was still breathing, but wouldn't do much of anything else we expected gramps to do. So we blamed everyone else in the family for his lack of energy, and called the coroner, expecting to appear in his will.Oddly, no one else seemed real interested in making a just-like-new grandpa and beginning the cycle all over again.'Cause previous efforts along that line were tried, and didn't actually generate the always-promised magical revival of the entire Grandpa species.Nevertheless, there's always someone (often many someones) insisting we try again with one more Grandpa.It's bound to work this time!
And to think... Without Grandpa, *YOU* would not be here. Yea, better bury him quick, because everyone knows his life and times were rubbish compared to the new "young studs" taking his place. Nothing "old" is ever good, am I right?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Silly young ones. The death being spoken of is the death of real community. Perhaps you don't understand because you haven't experienced it. Your ignorance is not your fault. The difference in the games now, as opposed to the past, can be likened to the difference between having a respectful, mutual relationship, to that of paying a prostitute.
At first, prostitutes are great. You pay for exactly what you think you want & it's way cheaper than an actual relationship. And if you've never had a real relationship, you would wonder why anyone would be in one if you can either pay a prostitute for exactly what you think you need, or pay nothing and pull a manual, solo mission.
On the other hand, those of us who have had a real relationships know the beauty & fulfillment of the genuine article & you can't fool us with your one dimensional, unskilled, lifeless romp, that is over as soon as it begins. Zero lasting satisfaction.
Sure, the real thing seems to have a continual fee, takes time & friendship, mutual respect & communication to achieve. The feeling of entertainment, achievement, comradery, joy with a bit of selfless pride, are the real rewards & why old grandpa laments.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go & change my Depends. For I have soiled myself.
MMORPG market is not dead but alot good mmo's are shut down because of the players. I can name three mmo's that i loved that where shut down because of playerbase and there whining no matter what devs did attitude. Star wars galaxies is perfect exampe of underated game all i heard was complaints and whining from day one.
>>MMORPGs are dead. - Gone are the living worlds with players that logged in day after day for years on end.<<
And good f...g riddance.
I guess people noticed that spending their life in front of a computer is retarded.
Amen!
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Until mmorpg genre or at least some nice fat niche in mmorpg genre stop to try to attract people that are not interested in mmorpg experience in first place - it won't change for better.
There are only certain amount of millions of gamers and each one has certain niche and certain expectations. The market is flooded with mmo's and not always enough players saying i like it to keep mmo's going. Some are more popular than others like WoW or runescape and some just cant get enough. Yes devs and companies are part blame to when they release junky game but to often mmo dies because there is no money coming in. I'm not saying companies are not at fault but the type of player base can make or break games to.
The MOST important aspect needed to improve these games is first the person in charge be it the producer or the owner of the company or all the board members.What also might help a lot is an honest producer,so they are willing to tell you the straight up,that way they work along with the fan base much better instead of trying to mislead them.
Then once you have a SMART person in place,you need MONEY and lots of it.You need to predict a budget at least 50% higher than what you figure,this would make sure ideas get fulfilled and not cut short or eliminated to meet a budget or time line.
Without either of these two important aspects,you end up with incompetence that can WASTE money or simply NEVER have any creativity or good ideas.Without money there is no way to pull off a COMPLETE fully in depth idea.
What happens is many developers hire old school or people with proven records.Then what happens is they copy those exact same ideas,so there is no creativity.If you have a greedy board or a money hungry owner or a producer that gets bonuses for meeting dead lines ,you end up with a rushed product.
The game has to forego an incredible amount of planning,so you see the entire direction through and the cost of running it is also worked out.This all leads back to time lines and money,we saw Titan project get rehashed,so it was not properly thought out.This type of failure happens because they might have success with certain ideas but over time,their fan base starts to turn against those ideas.So with out proper hindsight or by over rating their current products,they make mistakes to the future.
I can count all the individuals i consider really smart on one hand and the developers with what i believe to be a less restrictive budget on a couple fingers.This means the genre really has no chance for a incredibly great fulfilling long lasting game.Instead these games are all created as retail objects designed not to excite us or to be great ,instead just products to turn a profit.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
>>MMORPGs are dead. - Gone are the living worlds with players that logged in day after day for years on end.<<
And good f...g riddance.
I guess people noticed that spending their life in front of a computer is retarded.
Amen!
I know, right? it's like, who wants to take the time to read a novel when you can just watch the movie. It's just as good.
I read a lot of books just recently finished last book of Game Of Thrones.
Your analogy is bad and makes no sense because video games are not even on same level as books they never were and never will be. Two very different mediums for two very different type of audience.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
The mmorpg isn't even the hospital. It fact it's outside playing frisbee with the dog. There are 1000 of us with 1000 ways on how an mmo should be made. There is no universal answer. People have a lot more choices than ever before on what they like and what to play. It's up to the individual themselves if that like a particular game or not. The mmo genre is changing and evolving. You have 2 choices.... Don't play mmo's if you don't like the changes or play them.
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
>>MMORPGs are dead. - Gone are the living worlds with players that logged in day after day for years on end.<<
And good f...g riddance.
I guess people noticed that spending their life in front of a computer is retarded.
Amen!
I know, right? it's like, who wants to take the time to read a novel when you can just watch the movie. It's just as good.
I read a lot of books just recently finished last book of Game Of Thrones.
Your analogy is bad and makes no sense because video games are not even on same level as books they never were and never will be. Two very different mediums for two very different type of audience.
Oh, I agree. Nothing in common whatsoever. It's not like this conversation had anything to do with the time invested into something as it coincides with the depth of joy or entertainment extracted...
Originally posted by RavingRabbid The mmorpg isn't even the hospital. It fact it's outside playing frisbee with the dog. There are 1000 of us with 1000 ways on how an mmo should be made. There is no universal answer. People have a lot more choices than ever before on what they like and what to play. It's up to the individual themselves if that like a particular game or not. The mmo genre is changing and evolving. You have 2 choices.... Don't play mmo's if you don't like the changes or play them.
What fun would be in that? then i would miss the chance to generalize and throw random insults at people for enjoying MMOS and calling them by every cliche stereotype name i can think of.
I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me.
But seriously.....
Please do not try to bring logic in here.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by RavingRabbid The mmorpg isn't even the hospital. It fact it's outside playing frisbee with the dog. There are 1000 of us with 1000 ways on how an mmo should be made. There is no universal answer. People have a lot more choices than ever before on what they like and what to play. It's up to the individual themselves if that like a particular game or not. The mmo genre is changing and evolving. You have 2 choices.... Don't play mmo's if you don't like the changes or play them.
What fun would be in that? then i would miss the chance to generalize and throw random insults at people for enjoying MMOS and by calling them with every cliche stereotype name i can think of.
I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me.
But seriously.....
Please do not try to bring logic in here.
LMAO! Double plunger salute to you sir! I'm 44 myself and still love games since the Atari 2600 was in my house. Video games for us have come along way good and bad.
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
Oh, I agree. Nothing in common whatsoever. It's not like this conversation had anything to do with the time invested into something as it coincides with the depth of joy or entertainment extracted...
I have read a lot of books which have inspired me and changed my outlook towards the world and people. That is why i disagreed with your comparison (analogy) with reading books.
As far as depth of joy and entertainment is concerned this is very subjective. For example the kind of MMO Op wants..i see no enjoyment in it. Although what i find strange is this hate towards 'casuals'..hard to make a point without back hand insults and generalizations? is it?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
As far as depth of joy and entertainment is concerned this is very subjective. For example the kind of MMO Op wants..i see no enjoyment in it. Although what i find strange is this hate towards 'casuals'..hard to make a point without back hand insults and generalizations? is it?
Most often we're arguing with the nebulous "Them", a kind of amalgam of "everyone who's every objected to anything I said".
Thus it's considerably more sinister, and has far more negative traits, than a real person.
Hell, in over-generalized topics like this one, maybe we all are.
I have read a lot of books which have inspired me and changed my outlook towards the world and people. That is why i disagreed with your comparison.
As far as depth of joy and entertainment is concerned this is very subjective. For example the kind of MMO Op wants..i see no enjoyment in it. Although what i find strange is this hate towards 'casuals'..hard to make a point without back hand insults and generalizations? is it?
As have I, & in no way was I trying to diminish the affect books have on peoples lives. But the point I was making was from a different angle which I believe you understand now.
We can agree that the depth to joy ratio is subjective. Also, please don't take my jabs at certain aspects of the MMO industry as personal insults or as hate. I don't think any of us would be here if it wasn't for our love for the hobby.
The reality is, this is a forum where people will say all kinds of things relating to their personal opinion. People will counter that opinion with their own. This isn't a debate that a poster can "win", as only time will tell where this will end. Now, as far as backhanded insults & generalizations... "Hello Pot, meet Kettle."
As far as depth of joy and entertainment is concerned this is very subjective. For example the kind of MMO Op wants..i see no enjoyment in it. Although what i find strange is this hate towards 'casuals'..hard to make a point without back hand insults and generalizations? is it?
Most often we're arguing with the nebulous "Them", a kind of amalgam of "everyone who's every objected to anything I said".
Thus it's considerably more sinister, and has far more negative traits, than a real person.
Hell, in over-generalized topics like this one, maybe we all are.
I understand people want different things in life. That is how life is but i always takes offense when people try to put others down for enjoying something they don't.
Yes you get older and you have lot more spare time to burn on any kind of hobby. Good for you..but how fair is to insult people for being 'casuals' and not wanting to spend hours upon hours every single day in virtual world?
These people make it sound as if spending more time away from computer and spending more quality time in real life is a bad thing. And i guess that is what more and more younger people are realizing and more and more games are going casual.
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
The reality is, this is a forum where people will say all kinds of things relating to their personal opinion. People will counter that opinion with their own. This isn't a debate that a poster can "win", as only time will tell where this will end. Now, as far as backhanded insults & generalizations... "Hello Pot, meet Kettle."
Please don't be shy to show me where i insulted people in this topic or generalized them? if anything i am against it and i even used sarcasm in earlier reply to make my point.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
As far as depth of joy and entertainment is concerned this is very subjective. For example the kind of MMO Op wants..i see no enjoyment in it. Although what i find strange is this hate towards 'casuals'..hard to make a point without back hand insults and generalizations? is it?
Most often we're arguing with the nebulous "Them", a kind of amalgam of "everyone who's every objected to anything I said".
Thus it's considerably more sinister, and has far more negative traits, than a real person.
Hell, in over-generalized topics like this one, maybe we all are.
I understand people want different things in life. That is how life is but i always takes offense when people try to put others down for enjoying something they don't.
Yes you get older and you have lot more spare time to burn on any kind of hobby. Good for you..but how fair is to insult people for being 'casuals' and not wanting to spend hours upon hours every single day in virtual world?
These people make it sound as if spending more time away from computer and spending more quality time in real life is a bad thing. And i guess that is what more and more younger people are realizing and more and more games are going casual.
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
The reality is, this is a forum where people will say all kinds of things relating to their personal opinion. People will counter that opinion with their own. This isn't a debate that a poster can "win", as only time will tell where this will end. Now, as far as backhanded insults & generalizations... "Hello Pot, meet Kettle."
Please don't be shy to show me where i insulted people in this topic or generalized them? if anything i am against it and i even used sarcasm in earlier reply to make my point.
Sure one sentence up: These people make it sound as if (etc.) All properties of an individual are shared by an entire (a bit nebulous) 'these people' group.
Jim likes fried chicken. All members of (group, label, race, class) must like fried chicken.
Comments
A correction appears to be in order. The most common mmo style of many years ago appears to be Dead, provided you just don't play any of those (still open) games.
We buried grandpa, cause he was still breathing, but wouldn't do much of anything else we expected gramps to do. So we blamed everyone else in the family for his lack of energy, and called the coroner, expecting to appear in his will.
Oddly, no one else seemed real interested in making a just-like-new grandpa and beginning the cycle all over again.
'Cause previous efforts along that line were tried, and didn't actually generate the always-promised magical revival of the entire Grandpa species.
Nevertheless, there's always someone (often many someones) insisting we try again with one more Grandpa.
It's bound to work this time!
People are not reading the thread title:
"MMORPGs are dead."
NOT
"MMOs are dead."
Huge difference there.
MMOACGs [Action Combat Games] are very much alive and kicking, flourishing and ever increasing.
MMORPGs are dead.
- Gone are the living worlds with players that logged in day after day for years on end.
- Gone are the various "boring" activities that made a game fun for many (and actually paid).
- Gone is the long, long road to a barely existent end game.
- Gone are the relaxing times had in these online worlds, the much demonized "downtime."
Soon, we will have MMOs (not MMORPGs) with an "I Win!" button. That is all that players today want, right? How much more efficient can one be than an "I Win!" button? Accomplishes the same thing in a fraction of the time. Then a player can move on to the next game quicker. Maybe that is not enough buttons to push. Maybe a combo of 3 or 6 buttons? Maybe I am wrong here...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
But grandpa's still alive. In a lot of cases, Son of Grandpa is still alive.
If neither one of those is acceptable, how's son of son of grandpa going to fix everything?
Silly young ones. The death being spoken of is the death of real community. Perhaps you don't understand because you haven't experienced it. Your ignorance is not your fault. The difference in the games now, as opposed to the past, can be likened to the difference between having a respectful, mutual relationship, to that of paying a prostitute.
At first, prostitutes are great. You pay for exactly what you think you want & it's way cheaper than an actual relationship. And if you've never had a real relationship, you would wonder why anyone would be in one if you can either pay a prostitute for exactly what you think you need, or pay nothing and pull a manual, solo mission.
On the other hand, those of us who have had a real relationships know the beauty & fulfillment of the genuine article & you can't fool us with your one dimensional, unskilled, lifeless romp, that is over as soon as it begins. Zero lasting satisfaction.
Sure, the real thing seems to have a continual fee, takes time & friendship, mutual respect & communication to achieve. The feeling of entertainment, achievement, comradery, joy with a bit of selfless pride, are the real rewards & why old grandpa laments.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go & change my Depends. For I have soiled myself.
(Edited for spelling & elderly fat fingering)
>>MMORPGs are dead.
- Gone are the living worlds with players that logged in day after day for years on end.<<
And good f...g riddance.
I guess people noticed that spending their life in front of a computer is retarded.
ArcheAge, Black Desert and Bless videos InporylemQQ Youtube
Amen!
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Until mmorpg genre or at least some nice fat niche in mmorpg genre stop to try to attract people that are not interested in mmorpg experience in first place - it won't change for better.
Until then me and mmorpg's are :
I know, right? it's like, who wants to take the time to read a novel when you can just watch the movie. It's just as good.
who wants to watch a movie when you can be the movie........never mind heck with both fun with the wife is more rewarding.
The MOST important aspect needed to improve these games is first the person in charge be it the producer or the owner of the company or all the board members.What also might help a lot is an honest producer,so they are willing to tell you the straight up,that way they work along with the fan base much better instead of trying to mislead them.
Then once you have a SMART person in place,you need MONEY and lots of it.You need to predict a budget at least 50% higher than what you figure,this would make sure ideas get fulfilled and not cut short or eliminated to meet a budget or time line.
Without either of these two important aspects,you end up with incompetence that can WASTE money or simply NEVER have any creativity or good ideas.Without money there is no way to pull off a COMPLETE fully in depth idea.
What happens is many developers hire old school or people with proven records.Then what happens is they copy those exact same ideas,so there is no creativity.If you have a greedy board or a money hungry owner or a producer that gets bonuses for meeting dead lines ,you end up with a rushed product.
The game has to forego an incredible amount of planning,so you see the entire direction through and the cost of running it is also worked out.This all leads back to time lines and money,we saw Titan project get rehashed,so it was not properly thought out.This type of failure happens because they might have success with certain ideas but over time,their fan base starts to turn against those ideas.So with out proper hindsight or by over rating their current products,they make mistakes to the future.
I can count all the individuals i consider really smart on one hand and the developers with what i believe to be a less restrictive budget on a couple fingers.This means the genre really has no chance for a incredibly great fulfilling long lasting game.Instead these games are all created as retail objects designed not to excite us or to be great ,instead just products to turn a profit.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I read a lot of books just recently finished last book of Game Of Thrones.
Your analogy is bad and makes no sense because video games are not even on same level as books they never were and never will be. Two very different mediums for two very different type of audience.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
Oh, I agree. Nothing in common whatsoever. It's not like this conversation had anything to do with the time invested into something as it coincides with the depth of joy or entertainment extracted...
What fun would be in that? then i would miss the chance to generalize and throw random insults at people for enjoying MMOS and calling them by every cliche stereotype name i can think of.
I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me.
But seriously.....
Please do not try to bring logic in here.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
LMAO! Double plunger salute to you sir! I'm 44 myself and still love games since the Atari 2600 was in my house. Video games for us have come along way good and bad.
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
I have read a lot of books which have inspired me and changed my outlook towards the world and people. That is why i disagreed with your comparison (analogy) with reading books.
As far as depth of joy and entertainment is concerned this is very subjective. For example the kind of MMO Op wants..i see no enjoyment in it. Although what i find strange is this hate towards 'casuals'..hard to make a point without back hand insults and generalizations? is it?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Most often we're arguing with the nebulous "Them", a kind of amalgam of "everyone who's every objected to anything I said".
Thus it's considerably more sinister, and has far more negative traits, than a real person.
Hell, in over-generalized topics like this one, maybe we all are.
As have I, & in no way was I trying to diminish the affect books have on peoples lives. But the point I was making was from a different angle which I believe you understand now.
We can agree that the depth to joy ratio is subjective. Also, please don't take my jabs at certain aspects of the MMO industry as personal insults or as hate. I don't think any of us would be here if it wasn't for our love for the hobby.
The reality is, this is a forum where people will say all kinds of things relating to their personal opinion. People will counter that opinion with their own. This isn't a debate that a poster can "win", as only time will tell where this will end. Now, as far as backhanded insults & generalizations... "Hello Pot, meet Kettle."
I understand people want different things in life. That is how life is but i always takes offense when people try to put others down for enjoying something they don't.
Yes you get older and you have lot more spare time to burn on any kind of hobby. Good for you..but how fair is to insult people for being 'casuals' and not wanting to spend hours upon hours every single day in virtual world?
These people make it sound as if spending more time away from computer and spending more quality time in real life is a bad thing. And i guess that is what more and more younger people are realizing and more and more games are going casual.
Please don't be shy to show me where i insulted people in this topic or generalized them? if anything i am against it and i even used sarcasm in earlier reply to make my point.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Sure one sentence up: These people make it sound as if (etc.) All properties of an individual are shared by an entire (a bit nebulous) 'these people' group.
Jim likes fried chicken. All members of (group, label, race, class) must like fried chicken.