I would be more than happy to pay $15 per month as well for sub servers only. It'd like to get my money's worth with like minded players that are dedicated as I am to keep a promising game going. Wish they did this for other games. And I hope they do this here.
Originally posted by The1ceQueen I'd rather play on a server with people that pay a monthly fee, I generally don't like the F2P or B2P crowd which is why I avoid F2P and B2P games. A bit snobbish? Maybe, but I really don't like playing an mmo with those obnoxious folks.
I don't see it. World of Warcraft and Xbox Live have some of the absolute worst communities I've ever experienced and both have monthly fees. While Lord of the Rings Online and Guild Wars 2 have some of the best communities.
Segregation: We are the rich and want our own server so we make sure where clear of poor who are nothing but bad players thats what most of you here saying.
WoW is biggest example that dont guarenteed wonderfull people:P
$15 a month is not rich. Heck even if we paid $50 a month for an mmo, that's still not bad. Consider a trip to the movies, price of admission, popcorn and soda, and any other extras you might want. Having a monthly sub is not a big deal, and it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than most everything else you have for entertainment as a monthly fee. I know people that say it's crazy to pay $15 a month for an mmo, but those same people pay well over $100 a month for cable, and go out to dinner for well over $100 for just one meal.
Yeah, I'd like to be segregated from the CHEAP people in an mmo, yes I would, and that doesn't mean I'm rich, it means I don't like CHEAP people and their gimme, gimme, everything for free, attitudes.
What? Most people I know don't go to theaters more than once per year if that because it's so damn expensive when they could just rent a movie for $1.40 at Redbox. The idea that $15 per month is cheaper than most every entertainment you pay a monthly fee for as is laughable. It is almost twice Netflix, Hulu Plus, Amazon Prime and Redbox Instant. It is the exact same price as Gamefly which is a far better deal.
See, that's one of the forms of cheapness I'm talking about. Would rather not play with cheap mmo'ers.
I'd be honestly fine paying $20 a month for a premium only server. I know several of my friends would too, as long as they keep it totally separate and no cash shop with anything but straight vanity items, I'd be fine. I'd prefer absolutely no cash shop, but my guess is almost every company will do one with at least vanity items.
All of Sony's games have a subscription plan. You can either play for free, with limited access to certain features, or you can pony up 15 bucks and get full access to the game and 500 free Station Cash to spend in the store.
Also, Sony has an even better deal. The All Access pass for 20$, it gives you an active subscription to
Free realms
Star Wars Clone Wars
Everquest
Everquest II
Vanguard, Saga of Heroes
Planetside
Planetside 2
DC Universe Online
Also 500 SC for use in their store
I'm pretty sure EQNext will be added to this list. And that's the option I've been using for years whenever I play one SOE game, I then get them all.
Edit: Forgot to get to the point. Yes, I would be fine with allowing a subscription only server. Everquest already has a few, the Time Locked Progression servers.
Originally posted by The1ceQueen I'd rather play on a server with people that pay a monthly fee, I generally don't like the F2P or B2P crowd which is why I avoid F2P and B2P games. A bit snobbish? Maybe, but I really don't like playing an mmo with those obnoxious folks.
I don't see it. World of Warcraft and Xbox Live have some of the absolute worst communities I've ever experienced and both have monthly fees. While Lord of the Rings Online and Guild Wars 2 have some of the best communities.
Segregation: We are the rich and want our own server so we make sure where clear of poor who are nothing but bad players thats what most of you here saying.
WoW is biggest example that dont guarenteed wonderfull people:P
Yup, and I don't back away from it. It has nothing to do with money. I play dungeons and dragons and collector board games. They are expensive hobbies. when you have a real hobby you invest in it. I want a game that lets me invest in it and allows me to be with people that are equal. Right now, i feel like i play with a bunch of folk that (oh i love monopoly). and i'd rather play with people who are up for a game of Die Macher.
Really? Because when I play Dungeons & Dragons there are always some people at my table that don't have the books or just have the Player's Handbook and none of the other long list of optional books.
AThose players are what I consider players content with free to play. I'm good with that. But how comfortable would you feel for a Dungeon Master who doesnt own any books. This is a good example of my point. I'm great with everyone playing the same game, but those who take it as a serious hobby have ot invest another level to the game. I don't now a dungeon master that doesn't spend probably 2 to 3 times what their players do.
When you invest in DnD the world opens up, all of a sudden you can study classes, feats and skills on your own time. It's a different environment. We all started the game by sharing books, but eventually you' had to get your own if you were going to be taken seriously.
I've played with DMs that had a large library just as I have played with DMs that only owned the core rulebooks. What this thread is suggesting is like having a DM that only runs a game where he plays by himself.
I invest in D&D because I like to read the books and I feel the value justifies what I spend. I don't force that on players who play with me, nor do I require them to do anything of the sort to even sit at my table. As long as we have one set of core rulebooks at the table, we are good to go.
Originally posted by JayFiveAlive I'd be honestly fine paying $20 a month for a premium only server. I know several of my friends would too, as long as they keep it totally separate and no cash shop with anything but straight vanity items, I'd be fine. I'd prefer absolutely no cash shop, but my guess is almost every company will do one with at least vanity items.
Cant believe I'm actually saying this, but Blizzard is one of the onlu companies to do Cash Shop right.. Strictly Vanity Items.. Mounts, pets and such.
Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.
Originally posted by The1ceQueen I'd rather play on a server with people that pay a monthly fee, I generally don't like the F2P or B2P crowd which is why I avoid F2P and B2P games. A bit snobbish? Maybe, but I really don't like playing an mmo with those obnoxious folks.
I don't see it. World of Warcraft and Xbox Live have some of the absolute worst communities I've ever experienced and both have monthly fees. While Lord of the Rings Online and Guild Wars 2 have some of the best communities.
Segregation: We are the rich and want our own server so we make sure where clear of poor who are nothing but bad players thats what most of you here saying.
WoW is biggest example that dont guarenteed wonderfull people:P
$15 a month is not rich. Heck even if we paid $50 a month for an mmo, that's still not bad. Consider a trip to the movies, price of admission, popcorn and soda, and any other extras you might want. Having a monthly sub is not a big deal, and it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than most everything else you have for entertainment as a monthly fee. I know people that say it's crazy to pay $15 a month for an mmo, but those same people pay well over $100 a month for cable, and go out to dinner for well over $100 for just one meal.
Yeah, I'd like to be segregated from the CHEAP people in an mmo, yes I would, and that doesn't mean I'm rich, it means I don't like CHEAP people and their gimme, gimme, everything for free, attitudes.
What? Most people I know don't go to theaters more than once per year if that because it's so damn expensive when they could just rent a movie for $1.40 at Redbox. The idea that $15 per month is cheaper than most every entertainment you pay a monthly fee for as is laughable. It is almost twice Netflix, Hulu Plus, Amazon Prime and Redbox Instant. It is the exact same price as Gamefly which is a far better deal.
See, that's one of the forms of cheapness I'm talking about. Would rather not play with cheap mmo'ers.
Because screw all the people who have bills to pay and live pay check to pay check. Right?
Originally posted by The1ceQueen I'd rather play on a server with people that pay a monthly fee, I generally don't like the F2P or B2P crowd which is why I avoid F2P and B2P games. A bit snobbish? Maybe, but I really don't like playing an mmo with those obnoxious folks.
I don't see it. World of Warcraft and Xbox Live have some of the absolute worst communities I've ever experienced and both have monthly fees. While Lord of the Rings Online and Guild Wars 2 have some of the best communities.
Segregation: We are the rich and want our own server so we make sure where clear of poor who are nothing but bad players thats what most of you here saying.
WoW is biggest example that dont guarenteed wonderfull people:P
$15 a month is not rich. Heck even if we paid $50 a month for an mmo, that's still not bad. Consider a trip to the movies, price of admission, popcorn and soda, and any other extras you might want. Having a monthly sub is not a big deal, and it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than most everything else you have for entertainment as a monthly fee. I know people that say it's crazy to pay $15 a month for an mmo, but those same people pay well over $100 a month for cable, and go out to dinner for well over $100 for just one meal.
Yeah, I'd like to be segregated from the CHEAP people in an mmo, yes I would, and that doesn't mean I'm rich, it means I don't like CHEAP people and their gimme, gimme, everything for free, attitudes.
What? Most people I know don't go to theaters more than once per year if that because it's so damn expensive when they could just rent a movie for $1.40 at Redbox. The idea that $15 per month is cheaper than most every entertainment you pay a monthly fee for as is laughable. It is almost twice Netflix, Hulu Plus, Amazon Prime and Redbox Instant. It is the exact same price as Gamefly which is a far better deal.
See, that's one of the forms of cheapness I'm talking about. Would rather not play with cheap mmo'ers.
Because screw all the people who have bills to pay and live pay check to pay check. Right?
Couldn't have said it better myself, except I wouldn't have used any sarcasm.
Those who do not have the money for a luxury service, and YES gaming is a LUXURY, should not complain about not being able to participate. MMO's in 1999-2003 needed a better trial option before purchasing, unfortunately 'F2P' came out of it.
See, that's one of the forms of cheapness I'm talking about. Would rather not play with cheap mmo'ers.
It's perfectly well and good to have preferences. No problem with that. I have written quite possibly a thousand pages to the contrary targeting the many reasons people give for it, but no one has the right to say "you enjoy something for the wrong reasons", or that "you are wrong for enjoying this".
Though as a whole the argument that money = maturity is flawed in nearly every aspect. We see it in all areas of the world and life; we even see the arrogance of first world countries calling other societies "barbaric" or "savage" if they're hunter gatherers (I had the privilege of visiting certain Ice reliant folk and many cultures in the Sahara, and theirs is a way of life that many long for here in "civilization") . Payment models are the placebo of the MMO genre. F2P games are becoming the excuse to make a quick buck by giving a game that has the complexity of a single player game the "MMO" tag so that people will defend it with the rhetoric of "it's F2P and a MMO! They have to make their money somehow!". I won't go into that debacle, as at the core it's correct, but in practice it's a matter of capitalism manipulating reason.
There is naught I can say (without writing another 20 page post that only two or three people would read xD) but agree that such games as GW2 and LotRO have great communities. Of the P2P games I'm a part of, the communities are awful, mainly because of the circumstances said community grew from and the resources and tools available to them that invoke the primal nature of man, or the so said "epeen of the interwebs". It is therefore I can only make one assertion with the space alloted: That the community as a whole has no relation to the money that's put in it, other than the wants of a developer to make a lot of money by putting features that may (in the end) exasperate it.
Though I reiterate, wanting an additional "barrier for entry" is not uncommon, and while it is an inefficient and unreliable deterrent of a bad community, I suppose if it prevents but one bad apple or young sir/madam from playing it then all the better for certain individuals. Though that will enter into another whole argument in that there are many young people who are mature than a great deal of the older crowd. That the conditions, again (as in in-game communities) are a product of their upbringing and cultural acceptance.
You would be surprised at how well mannered many people, who had little money, were in the areas I've visited in my studies. Before currency was introduced to them, they were even more polite (according to documentations and peer reviewed writings). Once capitalism was introduced, problems arised, the needs for jobs became prevailant... greed, hatred, jealousy, immaturity, lack of family values (cheating became more acceptable) or not wanting to even stay with the family... So many things began to take hold. So I say again, such things as having money does not equal maturity; in many cases, said people become needlessly arrogant and only want to be in line with others of the same "caliber".
Just as you want to believe in the placebo of monthly fees, in many cases I want to avoid that crowd. Though at the same time, I want to save the P2P model from it's current path of decline to make it more consumer friendly in terms of time allocation, to keep (and indeed verbally fight for) it for those who enjoy it, and perhaps my own innate desires of wanting to avoid some of said crowd (which is also a sort of arrogance or "high horsity").
But~ as I said earlier, I also hate F2P as it is becoming, just as I hated it ten years ago when these things were only common in the foreign market. If it were a choice between well mannered people with little money, and well mannered people with a lot of it, then I would still likely pick the former. More equality and more people to play with, with the latter always welcome if they want to partake in a group as well.
Then again, I am the type to help people in MMOs. The more that play, the more I can help. This is why I enjoyed FFXI and FFXIV immensely when I played them. It's why I liked playing D2 and farming all night just to give the spoils to complete strangers. In general, it's just a joy to make friends like that and to form a community based on mutual respect other than "you have money. You can be my friend."
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Originally posted by JayFiveAlive I'd be honestly fine paying $20 a month for a premium only server. I know several of my friends would too, as long as they keep it totally separate and no cash shop with anything but straight vanity items, I'd be fine. I'd prefer absolutely no cash shop, but my guess is almost every company will do one with at least vanity items.
Cant believe I'm actually saying this, but Blizzard is one of the onlu companies to do Cash Shop right.. Strictly Vanity Items.. Mounts, pets and such.
I have to agree with you. Blizzard is the only mmo with a cash shop I liked. I absolutely hate the GW2 type cash shop models.
See, that's one of the forms of cheapness I'm talking about. Would rather not play with cheap mmo'ers.
It's perfectly well and good to have preferences. No problem with that. I have written quite possibly a thousand pages to the contrary targeting the many reasons people give for it, but no one has the right to say "you enjoy something for the wrong reasons", or that "you are wrong for enjoying this".
I never said you were wrong for enjoying it your way, just I prefer to avoid Cheap people. I've never said I wasn't a bit snobbish, I admit it.
Everyone has a right their own opinions, and though I disagree with yours and others, I never have ill tension toward you or them. That's the difference in someone being childish (not intended toward you) or being an adult about a conversation. We can all get along even though we want to play an mmorpg differently, having choices is a good thing imo. It's win, win, for us all.
Kinda defeats the purpose of free to play which is to maintain a high populace. Plus no one is going to play on these premium servers just as no one played on the EQ premium server. It divides the player base and people play where their friends and guildies play.
Originally posted by Kw22
Theres an easy solution to F2P that Everquest 2 started off with: Make servers that are for Premium Subscribers only. If premium players want to play with their F2P friends make plenty of open servers for this situation, but i'd love to see a handful of Premium-only servers where you know everyone on your server is dedicated enough to the game to shell out 15/mo (which is about 2-3 bucks cheaper than what i pay for a movie ticket for something that lasts 2 hours).
Going out to see a movie and playing a video game at home is apples and oranges. $15 per month is almost twice the price of Netflix and the exact same price as Gamefly.
Originally posted by Kw22
This game is like a last hurrah for MMOs to me, I hope its everything i want it to be.
If one of those things you want is a premium server, it won't be, so you might as well give up now.
A. You are talking about when the genre was young, of course people didn't pay to play on the EQ servers, the genre was too young to support it. Right now though you have enough mmo players who are older with disposable cash who are willing to pay extra for extra quality.
A fifteen year old or even twenty five year old does not have the money for a luxury car but a 40 year old does, I have been saying that there needs to be "boutique/luxury" mmos for a while now. where you are paying higher cost to play but for higher overall quality like always around GM's, name enforcement for rp servers, regularly ran gm world events, etc.
It can happen nowadays, there are people out there like myself who can pay 30 dollars a month for a premium server. Many of us are older now and want the high quality server, and I am not rich, but I have a job no major responsibilities and cash to burn. People go to high quality restaraunts at least once a month, why can't it be the same for an mmo?
Sorry for those who don't have the money but you already have plenty of options.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
15$/month is cheap. Its about the only thing in the last decade not to go up 300% in price. Its one of the cheapest forms of entertainment on the market. I don't understand how people say they cant afford 15/month but go out and drop money on cash shops, always have the "fastest and most advanced" rig on the forums, have the fastest internet connection, and brag about all kinds of other things that cost lots of money..............but can not afford 15$?
For 50 cents a day, all content free, no p2w, make or train my mounts over buying them, not having to buy bags, slots, characters, things that can be crafted easily, and game companies trying to milk me for every little stupid thing.............. its more than worth it.
But F2P is free you don't need anything off the cash shop............... as more and more games go free, more and more luxuries and items needed to have equal grounds as others go on the shop. Its not free, unless you want gimped.
If F2P was so great...... why do you guys jump from game to game so fast? Why are these games that go F2P still suffering?
But F2P is making more money than sub games............. well when you have 3000 F2P games and only 20 sub games, anyone with a brain and use of logic can tell you this will happen. Doesn't make F2P games better!
The pay model has nothing to do with a god MMORPG, if the game sucks the pay model wont matter. Most these games are second rate and resort to F2P to get more people. Honestly F2P is a crutch, not a solution. We need better MMORPG's and the new aged eye candy, fluff, and poor story lines just don't cut it!
Give me my REAL mmorpg's back and stop catering to the console kiddies, that's what ruined mmorpg's in the first place!
Theres an easy solution to F2P that Everquest 2 started off with: Make servers that are for Premium Subscribers only. If premium players want to play with their F2P friends make plenty of open servers for this situation, but i'd love to see a handful of Premium-only servers where you know everyone on your server is dedicated enough to the game to shell out 15/mo (which is about 2-3 bucks cheaper than what i pay for a movie ticket for something that lasts 2 hours).
If its similar to EQ2, free players can't upgrade spells or gear to anywhere near full potential. I'm a hardcore gamer and I appreciate when people try to maximize their character as best they can. Thats the playerbase I enjoy playing with, that people are willing to help each other out to be the most badass they can be - Isn't that why a lot of us play these games?
Being grouped with a F2P Wizard and seeing an awesome robe drop to have them say "Wow thats better than this Banana robe i had been wearing.. i could be doing way more damage but i have to upgrade my account to use that cool item" somehow doesn't have the same feel.
This game is like a last hurrah for MMOs to me, I hope its everything i want it to be.
give me an MMO worth $15 a month and I will gladly pay it. Just because $15 month is just about what you pay for a movie ticket doesn't mean people will pay for something above and beyond its worth or value. until then all these AAA F2P options are spot on. Having said that, I cant wait for EQN, and will be trying it out regardless of P2P or F2P or some hybrid.
Originally posted by The1ceQueen I'd rather play on a server with people that pay a monthly fee, I generally don't like the F2P or B2P crowd which is why I avoid F2P and B2P games. A bit snobbish? Maybe, but I really don't like playing an mmo with those obnoxious folks.
This, all day!
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming. My Blog
i don't mean to sound like an ass (i am far from rich myself) but if you honestly cannot afford $15 a month on entertainment, you probably shouldn't be wasting your time playing video games and maybe pick up a second job?
if you already have a second job then you are clearly living beyond your means.
How about, phasing anyone who is a premium player? No special servers, you're just phased from everyone else. Since you are phased, you can't see non-premium players and they cannot see you. You'll have your own auction house since you don't want your economy destroyed by all the near-do-wells. Of course resource nodes may get tapped before your eyes because you don't see the F2P at the node when you get there. A small price to pay for a premium experience. You and the other 12 people who chose to pay $15 a month will be glad you did it. Of course, you'll still solo all the content and race to max level. Should be fun.
The 25,000 other players who are F2P will hardly notice your departure. But their wallets will.
^This. Good quality post.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming. My Blog
Originally posted by The1ceQueen I'd rather play on a server with people that pay a monthly fee, I generally don't like the F2P or B2P crowd which is why I avoid F2P and B2P games. A bit snobbish? Maybe, but I really don't like playing an mmo with those obnoxious folks.
This, all day!
Well I also only play sub games, as I hate cash shops. But you get those same a$$hats in sub games as you do F2P........WoW as an example was full of horrid little kids with no respect for the community. Why I never played WOW
But with F2P it wont stop gold sellers, banned people, exploiters, etc to keep coming back.
How about, phasing anyone who is a premium player? No special servers, you're just phased from everyone else. Since you are phased, you can't see non-premium players and they cannot see you. You'll have your own auction house since you don't want your economy destroyed by all the near-do-wells. Of course resource nodes may get tapped before your eyes because you don't see the F2P at the node when you get there. A small price to pay for a premium experience. You and the other 12 people who chose to pay $15 a month will be glad you did it. Of course, you'll still solo all the content and race to max level. Should be fun.
The 25,000 other players who are F2P will hardly notice your departure. But their wallets will.
^This. Good quality post.
The joy of being on a totally different server is (well 1 avoid the wierdness above) but 2 enjoy the less stress on a server. Fewer , more dedicated players equals a quicker game experience.
i don't mean to sound like an ass (i am far from rich myself) but if you honestly cannot afford $15 a month on entertainment, you probably shouldn't be wasting your time playing video games and maybe pick up a second job?
if you already have a second job then you are clearly living beyond your means.
It has nothing to do with cost, MMORPG's are simply not worth a box fee plus subscription.
15$/month is cheap. Its about the only thing in the last decade not to go up 300% in price. Its one of the cheapest forms of entertainment on the market. I don't understand how people say they cant afford 15/month but go out and drop money on cash shops, always have the "fastest and most advanced" rig on the forums, have the fastest internet connection, and brag about all kinds of other things that cost lots of money..............but can not afford 15$?
For 50 cents a day, all content free, no p2w, make or train my mounts over buying them, not having to buy bags, slots, characters, things that can be crafted easily, and game companies trying to milk me for every little stupid thing.............. its more than worth it.
But F2P is free you don't need anything off the cash shop............... as more and more games go free, more and more luxuries and items needed to have equal grounds as others go on the shop. Its not free, unless you want gimped.
If F2P was so great...... why do you guys jump from game to game so fast? Why are these games that go F2P still suffering?
But F2P is making more money than sub games............. well when you have 3000 F2P games and only 20 sub games, anyone with a brain and use of logic can tell you this will happen. Doesn't make F2P games better!
The pay model has nothing to do with a god MMORPG, if the game sucks the pay model wont matter. Most these games are second rate and resort to F2P to get more people. Honestly F2P is a crutch, not a solution. We need better MMORPG's and the new aged eye candy, fluff, and poor story lines just don't cut it!
Give me my REAL mmorpg's back and stop catering to the console kiddies, that's what ruined mmorpg's in the first place!
Games are changing with the times and if they don't they will die. Your attitude is one of the problem with the supposed 'elite' MMO players - basic utter arrogance and hogwash tied up in one attitude package. The games will never go back to the way they were and I hope they don't. Ever hear of evolution?
I think if we are dreaming up a mythical premium server, we can do better than just $15 month. How about $15 a month and system requirements? After all, frame rate can really effect gameplay performance. So how about requiring the upcoming Core i7-3980X 8 core processor, GeForce GTX 780, SSD, and 16GB of RAM. Can't have anyone with lousy frame rate to ruin it for others.
While we are at it, we can throw in an IQ test to join the server. Of most factors this ranks at the top on what has a great effect on gameplay.
Can't having those idiotic unwashed masses playing with the highborn intelligent people.
Comments
See, that's one of the forms of cheapness I'm talking about. Would rather not play with cheap mmo'ers.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
All of Sony's games have a subscription plan. You can either play for free, with limited access to certain features, or you can pony up 15 bucks and get full access to the game and 500 free Station Cash to spend in the store.
Also, Sony has an even better deal. The All Access pass for 20$, it gives you an active subscription to
Free realms
Star Wars Clone Wars
Everquest
Everquest II
Vanguard, Saga of Heroes
Planetside
Planetside 2
DC Universe Online
Also 500 SC for use in their store
I'm pretty sure EQNext will be added to this list. And that's the option I've been using for years whenever I play one SOE game, I then get them all.
Edit: Forgot to get to the point. Yes, I would be fine with allowing a subscription only server. Everquest already has a few, the Time Locked Progression servers.
I've played with DMs that had a large library just as I have played with DMs that only owned the core rulebooks. What this thread is suggesting is like having a DM that only runs a game where he plays by himself.
I invest in D&D because I like to read the books and I feel the value justifies what I spend. I don't force that on players who play with me, nor do I require them to do anything of the sort to even sit at my table. As long as we have one set of core rulebooks at the table, we are good to go.
Cant believe I'm actually saying this, but Blizzard is one of the onlu companies to do Cash Shop right.. Strictly Vanity Items.. Mounts, pets and such.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
Battle Station
Because screw all the people who have bills to pay and live pay check to pay check. Right?
Couldn't have said it better myself, except I wouldn't have used any sarcasm.
Those who do not have the money for a luxury service, and YES gaming is a LUXURY, should not complain about not being able to participate. MMO's in 1999-2003 needed a better trial option before purchasing, unfortunately 'F2P' came out of it.
It's perfectly well and good to have preferences. No problem with that. I have written quite possibly a thousand pages to the contrary targeting the many reasons people give for it, but no one has the right to say "you enjoy something for the wrong reasons", or that "you are wrong for enjoying this".
Though as a whole the argument that money = maturity is flawed in nearly every aspect. We see it in all areas of the world and life; we even see the arrogance of first world countries calling other societies "barbaric" or "savage" if they're hunter gatherers (I had the privilege of visiting certain Ice reliant folk and many cultures in the Sahara, and theirs is a way of life that many long for here in "civilization") . Payment models are the placebo of the MMO genre. F2P games are becoming the excuse to make a quick buck by giving a game that has the complexity of a single player game the "MMO" tag so that people will defend it with the rhetoric of "it's F2P and a MMO! They have to make their money somehow!". I won't go into that debacle, as at the core it's correct, but in practice it's a matter of capitalism manipulating reason.
There is naught I can say (without writing another 20 page post that only two or three people would read xD) but agree that such games as GW2 and LotRO have great communities. Of the P2P games I'm a part of, the communities are awful, mainly because of the circumstances said community grew from and the resources and tools available to them that invoke the primal nature of man, or the so said "epeen of the interwebs". It is therefore I can only make one assertion with the space alloted: That the community as a whole has no relation to the money that's put in it, other than the wants of a developer to make a lot of money by putting features that may (in the end) exasperate it.
Though I reiterate, wanting an additional "barrier for entry" is not uncommon, and while it is an inefficient and unreliable deterrent of a bad community, I suppose if it prevents but one bad apple or young sir/madam from playing it then all the better for certain individuals. Though that will enter into another whole argument in that there are many young people who are mature than a great deal of the older crowd. That the conditions, again (as in in-game communities) are a product of their upbringing and cultural acceptance.
You would be surprised at how well mannered many people, who had little money, were in the areas I've visited in my studies. Before currency was introduced to them, they were even more polite (according to documentations and peer reviewed writings). Once capitalism was introduced, problems arised, the needs for jobs became prevailant... greed, hatred, jealousy, immaturity, lack of family values (cheating became more acceptable) or not wanting to even stay with the family... So many things began to take hold. So I say again, such things as having money does not equal maturity; in many cases, said people become needlessly arrogant and only want to be in line with others of the same "caliber".
Just as you want to believe in the placebo of monthly fees, in many cases I want to avoid that crowd. Though at the same time, I want to save the P2P model from it's current path of decline to make it more consumer friendly in terms of time allocation, to keep (and indeed verbally fight for) it for those who enjoy it, and perhaps my own innate desires of wanting to avoid some of said crowd (which is also a sort of arrogance or "high horsity").
But~ as I said earlier, I also hate F2P as it is becoming, just as I hated it ten years ago when these things were only common in the foreign market. If it were a choice between well mannered people with little money, and well mannered people with a lot of it, then I would still likely pick the former. More equality and more people to play with, with the latter always welcome if they want to partake in a group as well.
Then again, I am the type to help people in MMOs. The more that play, the more I can help. This is why I enjoyed FFXI and FFXIV immensely when I played them. It's why I liked playing D2 and farming all night just to give the spoils to complete strangers. In general, it's just a joy to make friends like that and to form a community based on mutual respect other than "you have money. You can be my friend."
I have to agree with you. Blizzard is the only mmo with a cash shop I liked. I absolutely hate the GW2 type cash shop models.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I never said you were wrong for enjoying it your way, just I prefer to avoid Cheap people. I've never said I wasn't a bit snobbish, I admit it.
Everyone has a right their own opinions, and though I disagree with yours and others, I never have ill tension toward you or them. That's the difference in someone being childish (not intended toward you) or being an adult about a conversation. We can all get along even though we want to play an mmorpg differently, having choices is a good thing imo. It's win, win, for us all.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
A. You are talking about when the genre was young, of course people didn't pay to play on the EQ servers, the genre was too young to support it. Right now though you have enough mmo players who are older with disposable cash who are willing to pay extra for extra quality.
A fifteen year old or even twenty five year old does not have the money for a luxury car but a 40 year old does, I have been saying that there needs to be "boutique/luxury" mmos for a while now. where you are paying higher cost to play but for higher overall quality like always around GM's, name enforcement for rp servers, regularly ran gm world events, etc.
It can happen nowadays, there are people out there like myself who can pay 30 dollars a month for a premium server. Many of us are older now and want the high quality server, and I am not rich, but I have a job no major responsibilities and cash to burn. People go to high quality restaraunts at least once a month, why can't it be the same for an mmo?
Sorry for those who don't have the money but you already have plenty of options.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
15$/month is cheap. Its about the only thing in the last decade not to go up 300% in price. Its one of the cheapest forms of entertainment on the market. I don't understand how people say they cant afford 15/month but go out and drop money on cash shops, always have the "fastest and most advanced" rig on the forums, have the fastest internet connection, and brag about all kinds of other things that cost lots of money..............but can not afford 15$?
For 50 cents a day, all content free, no p2w, make or train my mounts over buying them, not having to buy bags, slots, characters, things that can be crafted easily, and game companies trying to milk me for every little stupid thing.............. its more than worth it.
But F2P is free you don't need anything off the cash shop............... as more and more games go free, more and more luxuries and items needed to have equal grounds as others go on the shop. Its not free, unless you want gimped.
If F2P was so great...... why do you guys jump from game to game so fast? Why are these games that go F2P still suffering?
But F2P is making more money than sub games............. well when you have 3000 F2P games and only 20 sub games, anyone with a brain and use of logic can tell you this will happen. Doesn't make F2P games better!
The pay model has nothing to do with a god MMORPG, if the game sucks the pay model wont matter. Most these games are second rate and resort to F2P to get more people. Honestly F2P is a crutch, not a solution. We need better MMORPG's and the new aged eye candy, fluff, and poor story lines just don't cut it!
Give me my REAL mmorpg's back and stop catering to the console kiddies, that's what ruined mmorpg's in the first place!
give me an MMO worth $15 a month and I will gladly pay it. Just because $15 month is just about what you pay for a movie ticket doesn't mean people will pay for something above and beyond its worth or value. until then all these AAA F2P options are spot on. Having said that, I cant wait for EQN, and will be trying it out regardless of P2P or F2P or some hybrid.
This, all day!
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
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i don't mean to sound like an ass (i am far from rich myself) but if you honestly cannot afford $15 a month on entertainment, you probably shouldn't be wasting your time playing video games and maybe pick up a second job?
if you already have a second job then you are clearly living beyond your means.
^This. Good quality post.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
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Well I also only play sub games, as I hate cash shops. But you get those same a$$hats in sub games as you do F2P........WoW as an example was full of horrid little kids with no respect for the community. Why I never played WOW
But with F2P it wont stop gold sellers, banned people, exploiters, etc to keep coming back.
The joy of being on a totally different server is (well 1 avoid the wierdness above) but 2 enjoy the less stress on a server. Fewer , more dedicated players equals a quicker game experience.
It has nothing to do with cost, MMORPG's are simply not worth a box fee plus subscription.
Games are changing with the times and if they don't they will die. Your attitude is one of the problem with the supposed 'elite' MMO players - basic utter arrogance and hogwash tied up in one attitude package. The games will never go back to the way they were and I hope they don't. Ever hear of evolution?
I think if we are dreaming up a mythical premium server, we can do better than just $15 month. How about $15 a month and system requirements? After all, frame rate can really effect gameplay performance. So how about requiring the upcoming Core i7-3980X 8 core processor, GeForce GTX 780, SSD, and 16GB of RAM. Can't have anyone with lousy frame rate to ruin it for others.
While we are at it, we can throw in an IQ test to join the server. Of most factors this ranks at the top on what has a great effect on gameplay.
Can't having those idiotic unwashed masses playing with the highborn intelligent people.