Originally posted by Arskaaa So much potential but pay to win:/
Its not pay to win. People who pay money do not get anything that gives an advantage over players who don't. I wish people would stop saying its pay to win.
Wrong! Just look up Runes and how they work and see that without the cash shop you have a 1% chance using them.
The game is a major pay-to-win game, very typical of PW games. I knew PW would ruin anything cryptic made.
Originally posted by Nekky_Fate Economy is so jacked up from the endless number of exploits. Could have been a good game but fell apart fast. I had almost 50 guild members and none of them play any more.
Well, in all fairness, that pretty much happens with all MMORPG's today, playing long term is pretty much a thing of the past for most folks.
People leave for all sorts of reasons, and I'll bet far more left just because it wasn't fun any more rather than due to specific exploits.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Arskaaa So much potential but pay to win:/
Its not pay to win. People who pay money do not get anything that gives an advantage over players who don't. I wish people would stop saying its pay to win.
Wrong! Just look up Runes and how they work and see that without the cash shop you have a 1% chance using them.
The game is a major pay-to-win game, very typical of PW games. I knew PW would ruin anything cryptic made.
I think you might be wrong on this one. I don't see these runes being pay-to-win. I associate pay to win with having a distinct advantage over another person. Considering in PVE be it dungeons or raiding it would equate to perhaps dealing more damage or taking more damage I don't see how you 'Win' over your fellow PvE fellows?
PvP is a bit different considering its a skill based system, but in honest once 60 you nuke everything very very quickly and it becomes more a 'team based' exercise rather than a solo PvP experience. There is a reason the PvP is designed as team based combat rather than a Free for all where the guy with the highest damage gets the most kills.
In addition, a key costs around 40k AD. A very easy sum to obtain. I've personally earned around 2 million AD since my time on there. I should also state that I bought Zen as well mainly for the character slot and for 2 bags. I used the AD I gained from buying and selling and playing the Zen market game. I have bought around 15 keys and traded for 10 others and I have got myself an epic mount, around 7 of those stones that prevent rune failure, 2x companions and a host of other goodies.
So, I haven't been required to spend a penny on that stuff. Why are you going about it the hard way? You really don't have to.
To find myself competing with players who have foundry insta-levelled, exploited the AH/AD, or farmed the bugged end dungeons is not something I'd go for.
I know that some of these exploits may not directly affect the pvp aspect of Gauntlgrym - ok hold that, I'd forgotten about the perma-afk in pvp that players used to get all the Glory they wanted.
Another post here suggested opening up a new server, I'd got for that, or a full roll back of the current servers.
Failing that - I'll leave it now. Lesson learnt re PWE.
Originally posted by Arskaaa So much potential but pay to win:/
Its not pay to win. People who pay money do not get anything that gives an advantage over players who don't. I wish people would stop saying its pay to win.
Wrong! Just look up Runes and how they work and see that without the cash shop you have a 1% chance using them.
The game is a major pay-to-win game, very typical of PW games. I knew PW would ruin anything cryptic made.
I think you might be wrong on this one. I don't see these runes being pay-to-win. I associate pay to win with having a distinct advantage over another person. Considering in PVE be it dungeons or raiding it would equate to perhaps dealing more damage or taking more damage I don't see how you 'Win' over your fellow PvE fellows?
PvP is a bit different considering its a skill based system, but in honest once 60 you nuke everything very very quickly and it becomes more a 'team based' exercise rather than a solo PvP experience. There is a reason the PvP is designed as team based combat rather than a Free for all where the guy with the highest damage gets the most kills.
In addition, a key costs around 40k AD. A very easy sum to obtain. I've personally earned around 2 million AD since my time on there. I should also state that I bought Zen as well mainly for the character slot and for 2 bags. I used the AD I gained from buying and selling and playing the Zen market game. I have bought around 15 keys and traded for 10 others and I have got myself an epic mount, around 7 of those stones that prevent rune failure, 2x companions and a host of other goodies.
So, I haven't been required to spend a penny on that stuff. Why are you going about it the hard way? You really don't have to.
ANY advantage constitutes as P2W, defend it all you want but any sort of advantage one receives over others will constitute as P2W. Should the close calls be the winner who pays for "non-essential" upgrades? I think not. Not mention Hellloooo Health Stones and Rez Scrolls. The cash shop is atrocious and the entire system reeks of company greed.
Originally posted by nerovipus32 Saying this game is not live is the biggest con i have seen to date, They are trying to use the "it's beta" excuse to hide the games short comings.
What sense does it make then to release the game so soon? They won't be able to do that afterward? Nice conspiracy theory and all, but if they were doing that why do it for only a couple months?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Arskaaa So much potential but pay to win:/
Its not pay to win. People who pay money do not get anything that gives an advantage over players who don't. I wish people would stop saying its pay to win.
Wrong! Just look up Runes and how they work and see that without the cash shop you have a 1% chance using them.
The game is a major pay-to-win game, very typical of PW games. I knew PW would ruin anything cryptic made.
I think you might be wrong on this one. I don't see these runes being pay-to-win. I associate pay to win with having a distinct advantage over another person. Considering in PVE be it dungeons or raiding it would equate to perhaps dealing more damage or taking more damage I don't see how you 'Win' over your fellow PvE fellows?
PvP is a bit different considering its a skill based system, but in honest once 60 you nuke everything very very quickly and it becomes more a 'team based' exercise rather than a solo PvP experience. There is a reason the PvP is designed as team based combat rather than a Free for all where the guy with the highest damage gets the most kills.
In addition, a key costs around 40k AD. A very easy sum to obtain. I've personally earned around 2 million AD since my time on there. I should also state that I bought Zen as well mainly for the character slot and for 2 bags. I used the AD I gained from buying and selling and playing the Zen market game. I have bought around 15 keys and traded for 10 others and I have got myself an epic mount, around 7 of those stones that prevent rune failure, 2x companions and a host of other goodies.
So, I haven't been required to spend a penny on that stuff. Why are you going about it the hard way? You really don't have to.
ANY advantage constitutes as P2W, defend it all you want but any sort of advantage one receives over others will constitute as P2W. Should the close calls be the winner who pays for "non-essential" upgrades? I think not. Not mention Hellloooo Health Stones and Rez Scrolls. The cash shop is atrocious and the entire system reeks of company greed.
I am not sure why you feel that 'defending' a game I enjoy playing is a bad thing? I don't think poorly on your opinion. I do however feel that perhaps your animosity is a bit ill placed though. I am fully familiar with the item shop and to my understanding the scrolls and rez scrolls are not used in PVP? I will be honest with you, I don't really play PVP so I am not sure, but I have heard people say it is not affected by these items. Please, correct me if I am wrong.
Anyhow the point I am trying to make is that from a PVE perspective the items in the shop do not affect you. If anything should you have someone in your party have any of the items they only add to your personal benefit and chances of success.
The thing about the runes I was making is that it is perfectly viable to buy the items you need with AD or even Gold if people are looking to trade to where the bought 'for cash' version is not something you have to undertake. I personally have had no issues obtaining what I have needed for level 60 with out paying a single red cent. Why can't you?
I think a little bit of this is that you dislike the payment model in place, and as such openly show your disdain to a game where I feel your are obscured by how 'you' want to play it. The sad thing is, I would also like to play the game with everything available in game, I don't mind paying for a subscription for the continued development for an MMO I enjoy.
Sadly, this is what happened with Star Trek Online and they got themselves into trouble until they went free to play so I fully understand that in order to pay 'the bills' that they have to have items that are incensed into buying. You simply are not going to get an artist just to make cosmetics to make and sell with a fraction of the community partaking it. The game would close.
It is not GREED simply because you dislike the model, it is business. The staff at Cryptic want a job and remain employed working on a game they want to develop but they also must show that it is profitable to do so. Otherwise, the game closes and people end up without a job.
So I respectfully disagree with that it is Pay 2 Win. To be pay to win means you have to have an advantage. In PVE you have none, in PVP you have alternative means of obtaining items. The fact someone 'buys' these items makes no difference. It is like saying the game is unfair because my progress in the game is less than yours because I can only invest 2 hours a day where you can invest 8 hours a day.
Now a lot of people do talk about the health scrolls, mainly because the max health healed is 8.5k which is a drop in the sand with a large health pool. But it is very easy to simply not die regardless of level with just kiting and evading. As a TR with potions on hand I have NEVER died only when I have run out have I died and sometimes in dungeons, which I expect. Considering how EASY it is to farm gold you can easily keep yourself alive without any issue.
The only time I see Greater Health Scrolls being useful is if you are looking to solo a dungeon or go at it without a Cleric.
But again I should say I do understand your feelings and I am sorry to hear that the game was not for you. I enjoy it, as do many others. There are plenty of MMO's coming out soon which might help rekindle your enjoyment for them and their payment models.
Originally posted by kDeviL Woah that's a pretty awesome idea for endgame PvPvE -> PvP -> PvE all in one. Might not appeal to everyone but it sounds pretty badass to me xD
I agree, I am excited for this, although I can see all the incoming whinging by PvE purists now.
Originally posted by Nekky_Fate Economy is so jacked up from the endless number of exploits. Could have been a good game but fell apart fast. I had almost 50 guild members and none of them play any more.
Well, in all fairness, that pretty much happens with all MMORPG's today, playing long term is pretty much a thing of the past for most folks.
People leave for all sorts of reasons, and I'll bet far more left just because it wasn't fun any more rather than due to specific exploits.
Yeah happened to me in SWTOR and GW2 with my first guilds on those respective games, but I am not going to claim that they were dead within a month either.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Originally posted by Arskaaa So much potential but pay to win:/
Its not pay to win. People who pay money do not get anything that gives an advantage over players who don't. I wish people would stop saying its pay to win.
Wrong! Just look up Runes and how they work and see that without the cash shop you have a 1% chance using them.
The game is a major pay-to-win game, very typical of PW games. I knew PW would ruin anything cryptic made.
I think you might be wrong on this one. I don't see these runes being pay-to-win. I associate pay to win with having a distinct advantage over another person. Considering in PVE be it dungeons or raiding it would equate to perhaps dealing more damage or taking more damage I don't see how you 'Win' over your fellow PvE fellows?
PvP is a bit different considering its a skill based system, but in honest once 60 you nuke everything very very quickly and it becomes more a 'team based' exercise rather than a solo PvP experience. There is a reason the PvP is designed as team based combat rather than a Free for all where the guy with the highest damage gets the most kills.
In addition, a key costs around 40k AD. A very easy sum to obtain. I've personally earned around 2 million AD since my time on there. I should also state that I bought Zen as well mainly for the character slot and for 2 bags. I used the AD I gained from buying and selling and playing the Zen market game. I have bought around 15 keys and traded for 10 others and I have got myself an epic mount, around 7 of those stones that prevent rune failure, 2x companions and a host of other goodies.
So, I haven't been required to spend a penny on that stuff. Why are you going about it the hard way? You really don't have to.
ANY advantage constitutes as P2W, defend it all you want but any sort of advantage one receives over others will constitute as P2W. Should the close calls be the winner who pays for "non-essential" upgrades? I think not. Not mention Hellloooo Health Stones and Rez Scrolls. The cash shop is atrocious and the entire system reeks of company greed.
I am sorry, but no matter in what kind of strange parallel world you are living in, convenience items do NOT count for pay to win. And what you listed are exactly that - convenience items.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY # ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED # A MASKED CRY ADORING # A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
Originally posted by kDeviL Woah that's a pretty awesome idea for endgame PvPvE -> PvP -> PvE all in one. Might not appeal to everyone but it sounds pretty badass to me xD
I agree, I am excited for this, although I can see all the incoming whinging by PvE purists now.
I think it's a horride system to incorperate. PvEers and PvPers are always at odds and usually on opposite end of the spectrum on so many things. Forcing PvP gameplay onto PvEers is just retarded, keep them separated and do content pertaining for each and not all inclusive.
I simply don't see this ending well. Now class balance on the basis of PvP takes a dominate role in justifications for nerfs or buffs.... which the majority of those that post on the official forums don't want happening.
Originally posted by Arskaaa So much potential but pay to win:/
Its not pay to win. People who pay money do not get anything that gives an advantage over players who don't. I wish people would stop saying its pay to win.
Wrong! Just look up Runes and how they work and see that without the cash shop you have a 1% chance using them.
The game is a major pay-to-win game, very typical of PW games. I knew PW would ruin anything cryptic made.
I think you might be wrong on this one. I don't see these runes being pay-to-win. I associate pay to win with having a distinct advantage over another person. Considering in PVE be it dungeons or raiding it would equate to perhaps dealing more damage or taking more damage I don't see how you 'Win' over your fellow PvE fellows?
PvP is a bit different considering its a skill based system, but in honest once 60 you nuke everything very very quickly and it becomes more a 'team based' exercise rather than a solo PvP experience. There is a reason the PvP is designed as team based combat rather than a Free for all where the guy with the highest damage gets the most kills.
In addition, a key costs around 40k AD. A very easy sum to obtain. I've personally earned around 2 million AD since my time on there. I should also state that I bought Zen as well mainly for the character slot and for 2 bags. I used the AD I gained from buying and selling and playing the Zen market game. I have bought around 15 keys and traded for 10 others and I have got myself an epic mount, around 7 of those stones that prevent rune failure, 2x companions and a host of other goodies.
So, I haven't been required to spend a penny on that stuff. Why are you going about it the hard way? You really don't have to.
ANY advantage constitutes as P2W, defend it all you want but any sort of advantage one receives over others will constitute as P2W. Should the close calls be the winner who pays for "non-essential" upgrades? I think not. Not mention Hellloooo Health Stones and Rez Scrolls. The cash shop is atrocious and the entire system reeks of company greed.
I am sorry, but no matter in what kind of strange parallel world you are living in, convenience items do NOT count for pay to win. And what you listed are exactly that - convenience items.
Instant full health pots, your dead but can rez yourself with a scroll, items that provide top notch enchants on your gear..... OHHHH that's certainly CONVENIENCE items..... NOT.
Originally posted by Arskaaa So much potential but pay to win:/
Its not pay to win. People who pay money do not get anything that gives an advantage over players who don't. I wish people would stop saying its pay to win.
Wrong! Just look up Runes and how they work and see that without the cash shop you have a 1% chance using them.
The game is a major pay-to-win game, very typical of PW games. I knew PW would ruin anything cryptic made.
I think you might be wrong on this one. I don't see these runes being pay-to-win. I associate pay to win with having a distinct advantage over another person. Considering in PVE be it dungeons or raiding it would equate to perhaps dealing more damage or taking more damage I don't see how you 'Win' over your fellow PvE fellows?
PvP is a bit different considering its a skill based system, but in honest once 60 you nuke everything very very quickly and it becomes more a 'team based' exercise rather than a solo PvP experience. There is a reason the PvP is designed as team based combat rather than a Free for all where the guy with the highest damage gets the most kills.
In addition, a key costs around 40k AD. A very easy sum to obtain. I've personally earned around 2 million AD since my time on there. I should also state that I bought Zen as well mainly for the character slot and for 2 bags. I used the AD I gained from buying and selling and playing the Zen market game. I have bought around 15 keys and traded for 10 others and I have got myself an epic mount, around 7 of those stones that prevent rune failure, 2x companions and a host of other goodies.
So, I haven't been required to spend a penny on that stuff. Why are you going about it the hard way? You really don't have to.
ANY advantage constitutes as P2W, defend it all you want but any sort of advantage one receives over others will constitute as P2W. Should the close calls be the winner who pays for "non-essential" upgrades? I think not. Not mention Hellloooo Health Stones and Rez Scrolls. The cash shop is atrocious and the entire system reeks of company greed.
I am sorry, but no matter in what kind of strange parallel world you are living in, convenience items do NOT count for pay to win. And what you listed are exactly that - convenience items.
Enjoy wearing those blinders? Either that or you do not understand how runes work, you can upgrade them to be extremely powerful power items, but you have to purchase expensive items from the item shop to do so as without them you have a 1% chance of the upgrade. Now you might have problems doing the math, but a 1% chance means extremely rare.
So yes, the game is outright pay-to-win with a big time expense for the upgrades. You are talking about an average $160 per character and of course that will only last until they raise the level limit and you have to start all over again.
Well, I reached level 60 as GWF and thats enough for me. I like the combat system, but unless or until they do something about the dungeon system, and the kicking of GWF, simply because they are GWF, I see no point in continuing. I ran a trickster rogue up to 16, but Its not really what I'm looking for. I have no interest in the other classes. Its too bad, as I quite enojoyed the over all game. As for all of the howling about "level playing field" I really do not care about such things in a PvE game.
Originally posted by Arskaaa So much potential but pay to win:/
Its not pay to win. People who pay money do not get anything that gives an advantage over players who don't. I wish people would stop saying its pay to win.
Wrong! Just look up Runes and how they work and see that without the cash shop you have a 1% chance using them.
The game is a major pay-to-win game, very typical of PW games. I knew PW would ruin anything cryptic made.
I think you might be wrong on this one. I don't see these runes being pay-to-win. I associate pay to win with having a distinct advantage over another person. Considering in PVE be it dungeons or raiding it would equate to perhaps dealing more damage or taking more damage I don't see how you 'Win' over your fellow PvE fellows?
PvP is a bit different considering its a skill based system, but in honest once 60 you nuke everything very very quickly and it becomes more a 'team based' exercise rather than a solo PvP experience. There is a reason the PvP is designed as team based combat rather than a Free for all where the guy with the highest damage gets the most kills.
In addition, a key costs around 40k AD. A very easy sum to obtain. I've personally earned around 2 million AD since my time on there. I should also state that I bought Zen as well mainly for the character slot and for 2 bags. I used the AD I gained from buying and selling and playing the Zen market game. I have bought around 15 keys and traded for 10 others and I have got myself an epic mount, around 7 of those stones that prevent rune failure, 2x companions and a host of other goodies.
So, I haven't been required to spend a penny on that stuff. Why are you going about it the hard way? You really don't have to.
ANY advantage constitutes as P2W, defend it all you want but any sort of advantage one receives over others will constitute as P2W. Should the close calls be the winner who pays for "non-essential" upgrades? I think not. Not mention Hellloooo Health Stones and Rez Scrolls. The cash shop is atrocious and the entire system reeks of company greed.
I am sorry, but no matter in what kind of strange parallel world you are living in, convenience items do NOT count for pay to win. And what you listed are exactly that - convenience items.
Instant full health pots, your dead but can rez yourself with a scroll, items that provide top notch enchants on your gear..... OHHHH that's certainly CONVENIENCE items..... NOT.
You expect the same benefits as someone who is actually spending money on the game? Good luck with that... These games cost a LOT to create. I have no problem with the Dev's making a profit on the time and talent they have invested in their game. In fact, I'd rather they make a good profit, so that there is more chance of the game continuing and perhaps being expanded.
lol some of you guys must be new to Perfect World and Cryptic's games. They haven't learned anything from their past failures and it shows in Neverwinter, such trash.
Originally posted by Arskaaa So much potential but pay to win:/
Its not pay to win. People who pay money do not get anything that gives an advantage over players who don't. I wish people would stop saying its pay to win.
Wrong! Just look up Runes and how they work and see that without the cash shop you have a 1% chance using them.
The game is a major pay-to-win game, very typical of PW games. I knew PW would ruin anything cryptic made.
I think you might be wrong on this one. I don't see these runes being pay-to-win. I associate pay to win with having a distinct advantage over another person. Considering in PVE be it dungeons or raiding it would equate to perhaps dealing more damage or taking more damage I don't see how you 'Win' over your fellow PvE fellows?
PvP is a bit different considering its a skill based system, but in honest once 60 you nuke everything very very quickly and it becomes more a 'team based' exercise rather than a solo PvP experience. There is a reason the PvP is designed as team based combat rather than a Free for all where the guy with the highest damage gets the most kills.
In addition, a key costs around 40k AD. A very easy sum to obtain. I've personally earned around 2 million AD since my time on there. I should also state that I bought Zen as well mainly for the character slot and for 2 bags. I used the AD I gained from buying and selling and playing the Zen market game. I have bought around 15 keys and traded for 10 others and I have got myself an epic mount, around 7 of those stones that prevent rune failure, 2x companions and a host of other goodies.
So, I haven't been required to spend a penny on that stuff. Why are you going about it the hard way? You really don't have to.
ANY advantage constitutes as P2W, defend it all you want but any sort of advantage one receives over others will constitute as P2W. Should the close calls be the winner who pays for "non-essential" upgrades? I think not. Not mention Hellloooo Health Stones and Rez Scrolls. The cash shop is atrocious and the entire system reeks of company greed.
I am sorry, but no matter in what kind of strange parallel world you are living in, convenience items do NOT count for pay to win. And what you listed are exactly that - convenience items.
Instant full health pots, your dead but can rez yourself with a scroll, items that provide top notch enchants on your gear..... OHHHH that's certainly CONVENIENCE items..... NOT.
You expect the same benefits as someone who is actually spending money on the game? Good luck with that... These games cost a LOT to create. I have no problem with the Dev's making a profit on the time and talent they have invested in their game. In fact, I'd rather they make a good profit, so that there is more chance of the game continuing and perhaps being expanded.
I expect em to be truthful and not take back their word, the said specifically that all items will be convinience and vanity items only.
Cryptic needing to make money is not the issue, the issue at hand is the fanbois trumping the game as not P2W when the CS cannot be any more blatent that it most certainly is.
Originally posted by Fendel84M Lol transfers would kinda defeat the purpose though ..
Maybe not, they could offer the transfer but state that they will wipe the AD, gold (not that gold matters), and any equipment / runes / items that are not bound to you.
That way non-cheaters can transfer over for a fresh start economy wise, without losing the characters and items they have worked for. Sure cheaters could transfer over as well, but aside from the base character, they won't have any other benefits.
Originally posted by Arskaaa So much potential but pay to win:/
Its not pay to win. People who pay money do not get anything that gives an advantage over players who don't. I wish people would stop saying its pay to win.
Wrong! Just look up Runes and how they work and see that without the cash shop you have a 1% chance using them.
The game is a major pay-to-win game, very typical of PW games. I knew PW would ruin anything cryptic made.
I think you might be wrong on this one. I don't see these runes being pay-to-win. I associate pay to win with having a distinct advantage over another person. Considering in PVE be it dungeons or raiding it would equate to perhaps dealing more damage or taking more damage I don't see how you 'Win' over your fellow PvE fellows?
PvP is a bit different considering its a skill based system, but in honest once 60 you nuke everything very very quickly and it becomes more a 'team based' exercise rather than a solo PvP experience. There is a reason the PvP is designed as team based combat rather than a Free for all where the guy with the highest damage gets the most kills.
In addition, a key costs around 40k AD. A very easy sum to obtain. I've personally earned around 2 million AD since my time on there. I should also state that I bought Zen as well mainly for the character slot and for 2 bags. I used the AD I gained from buying and selling and playing the Zen market game. I have bought around 15 keys and traded for 10 others and I have got myself an epic mount, around 7 of those stones that prevent rune failure, 2x companions and a host of other goodies.
So, I haven't been required to spend a penny on that stuff. Why are you going about it the hard way? You really don't have to.
ANY advantage constitutes as P2W, defend it all you want but any sort of advantage one receives over others will constitute as P2W. Should the close calls be the winner who pays for "non-essential" upgrades? I think not. Not mention Hellloooo Health Stones and Rez Scrolls. The cash shop is atrocious and the entire system reeks of company greed.
I am sorry, but no matter in what kind of strange parallel world you are living in, convenience items do NOT count for pay to win. And what you listed are exactly that - convenience items.
Instant full health pots, your dead but can rez yourself with a scroll, items that provide top notch enchants on your gear..... OHHHH that's certainly CONVENIENCE items..... NOT.
You expect the same benefits as someone who is actually spending money on the game? Good luck with that... These games cost a LOT to create. I have no problem with the Dev's making a profit on the time and talent they have invested in their game. In fact, I'd rather they make a good profit, so that there is more chance of the game continuing and perhaps being expanded.
I expect em to be truthful and not take back their word, the said specifically that all items will be convinience and vanity items only.
Cryptic needing to make money is not the issue, the issue at hand is the fanbois trumping the game as not P2W when the CS cannot be any more blatent that it most certainly is.
You've obviously not played any of the Asian games, in which you can purchase high level weapons, armor and combat mounts in their cash shops. That IS P2W. Neverwinters cash shop isn't even in the same league as that. As for the rest, given what else I've stated about the game, I'd hardly be one of their fan kiddies. But I do understand the reality of these games, and I'm more than willing to support the ones I enjoy.
Comments
Ridiculous, the game went live when they turned the cash shop on!
You might want to point that out instead of reiterating their marketing nonsense.
Wrong! Just look up Runes and how they work and see that without the cash shop you have a 1% chance using them.
The game is a major pay-to-win game, very typical of PW games. I knew PW would ruin anything cryptic made.
Well, in all fairness, that pretty much happens with all MMORPG's today, playing long term is pretty much a thing of the past for most folks.
People leave for all sorts of reasons, and I'll bet far more left just because it wasn't fun any more rather than due to specific exploits.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
New servers & class balances MIGHT save this game.
I'm betting neither will happen.
I think you might be wrong on this one. I don't see these runes being pay-to-win. I associate pay to win with having a distinct advantage over another person. Considering in PVE be it dungeons or raiding it would equate to perhaps dealing more damage or taking more damage I don't see how you 'Win' over your fellow PvE fellows?
PvP is a bit different considering its a skill based system, but in honest once 60 you nuke everything very very quickly and it becomes more a 'team based' exercise rather than a solo PvP experience. There is a reason the PvP is designed as team based combat rather than a Free for all where the guy with the highest damage gets the most kills.
In addition, a key costs around 40k AD. A very easy sum to obtain. I've personally earned around 2 million AD since my time on there. I should also state that I bought Zen as well mainly for the character slot and for 2 bags. I used the AD I gained from buying and selling and playing the Zen market game. I have bought around 15 keys and traded for 10 others and I have got myself an epic mount, around 7 of those stones that prevent rune failure, 2x companions and a host of other goodies.
So, I haven't been required to spend a penny on that stuff. Why are you going about it the hard way? You really don't have to.
To find myself competing with players who have foundry insta-levelled, exploited the AH/AD, or farmed the bugged end dungeons is not something I'd go for.
I know that some of these exploits may not directly affect the pvp aspect of Gauntlgrym - ok hold that, I'd forgotten about the perma-afk in pvp that players used to get all the Glory they wanted.
Another post here suggested opening up a new server, I'd got for that, or a full roll back of the current servers.
Failing that - I'll leave it now. Lesson learnt re PWE.
ANY advantage constitutes as P2W, defend it all you want but any sort of advantage one receives over others will constitute as P2W. Should the close calls be the winner who pays for "non-essential" upgrades? I think not. Not mention Hellloooo Health Stones and Rez Scrolls. The cash shop is atrocious and the entire system reeks of company greed.
What sense does it make then to release the game so soon? They won't be able to do that afterward? Nice conspiracy theory and all, but if they were doing that why do it for only a couple months?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I am not sure why you feel that 'defending' a game I enjoy playing is a bad thing? I don't think poorly on your opinion. I do however feel that perhaps your animosity is a bit ill placed though. I am fully familiar with the item shop and to my understanding the scrolls and rez scrolls are not used in PVP? I will be honest with you, I don't really play PVP so I am not sure, but I have heard people say it is not affected by these items. Please, correct me if I am wrong.
Anyhow the point I am trying to make is that from a PVE perspective the items in the shop do not affect you. If anything should you have someone in your party have any of the items they only add to your personal benefit and chances of success.
The thing about the runes I was making is that it is perfectly viable to buy the items you need with AD or even Gold if people are looking to trade to where the bought 'for cash' version is not something you have to undertake. I personally have had no issues obtaining what I have needed for level 60 with out paying a single red cent. Why can't you?
I think a little bit of this is that you dislike the payment model in place, and as such openly show your disdain to a game where I feel your are obscured by how 'you' want to play it. The sad thing is, I would also like to play the game with everything available in game, I don't mind paying for a subscription for the continued development for an MMO I enjoy.
Sadly, this is what happened with Star Trek Online and they got themselves into trouble until they went free to play so I fully understand that in order to pay 'the bills' that they have to have items that are incensed into buying. You simply are not going to get an artist just to make cosmetics to make and sell with a fraction of the community partaking it. The game would close.
It is not GREED simply because you dislike the model, it is business. The staff at Cryptic want a job and remain employed working on a game they want to develop but they also must show that it is profitable to do so. Otherwise, the game closes and people end up without a job.
So I respectfully disagree with that it is Pay 2 Win. To be pay to win means you have to have an advantage. In PVE you have none, in PVP you have alternative means of obtaining items. The fact someone 'buys' these items makes no difference. It is like saying the game is unfair because my progress in the game is less than yours because I can only invest 2 hours a day where you can invest 8 hours a day.
Now a lot of people do talk about the health scrolls, mainly because the max health healed is 8.5k which is a drop in the sand with a large health pool. But it is very easy to simply not die regardless of level with just kiting and evading. As a TR with potions on hand I have NEVER died only when I have run out have I died and sometimes in dungeons, which I expect. Considering how EASY it is to farm gold you can easily keep yourself alive without any issue.
The only time I see Greater Health Scrolls being useful is if you are looking to solo a dungeon or go at it without a Cleric.
But again I should say I do understand your feelings and I am sorry to hear that the game was not for you. I enjoy it, as do many others. There are plenty of MMO's coming out soon which might help rekindle your enjoyment for them and their payment models.
Respectfully,
Tsu
If WoW was released today even in its' entirety it would be f2p in 3 months.
Why is it still such a big deal?
I agree, I am excited for this, although I can see all the incoming whinging by PvE purists now.
Yeah happened to me in SWTOR and GW2 with my first guilds on those respective games, but I am not going to claim that they were dead within a month either.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I am sorry, but no matter in what kind of strange parallel world you are living in, convenience items do NOT count for pay to win. And what you listed are exactly that - convenience items.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
I think it's a horride system to incorperate. PvEers and PvPers are always at odds and usually on opposite end of the spectrum on so many things. Forcing PvP gameplay onto PvEers is just retarded, keep them separated and do content pertaining for each and not all inclusive.
I simply don't see this ending well. Now class balance on the basis of PvP takes a dominate role in justifications for nerfs or buffs.... which the majority of those that post on the official forums don't want happening.
Instant full health pots, your dead but can rez yourself with a scroll, items that provide top notch enchants on your gear..... OHHHH that's certainly CONVENIENCE items..... NOT.
Enjoy wearing those blinders? Either that or you do not understand how runes work, you can upgrade them to be extremely powerful power items, but you have to purchase expensive items from the item shop to do so as without them you have a 1% chance of the upgrade. Now you might have problems doing the math, but a 1% chance means extremely rare.
So yes, the game is outright pay-to-win with a big time expense for the upgrades. You are talking about an average $160 per character and of course that will only last until they raise the level limit and you have to start all over again.
You expect the same benefits as someone who is actually spending money on the game? Good luck with that... These games cost a LOT to create. I have no problem with the Dev's making a profit on the time and talent they have invested in their game. In fact, I'd rather they make a good profit, so that there is more chance of the game continuing and perhaps being expanded.
I expect em to be truthful and not take back their word, the said specifically that all items will be convinience and vanity items only.
Cryptic needing to make money is not the issue, the issue at hand is the fanbois trumping the game as not P2W when the CS cannot be any more blatent that it most certainly is.
Maybe not, they could offer the transfer but state that they will wipe the AD, gold (not that gold matters), and any equipment / runes / items that are not bound to you.
That way non-cheaters can transfer over for a fresh start economy wise, without losing the characters and items they have worked for. Sure cheaters could transfer over as well, but aside from the base character, they won't have any other benefits.
You've obviously not played any of the Asian games, in which you can purchase high level weapons, armor and combat mounts in their cash shops. That IS P2W. Neverwinters cash shop isn't even in the same league as that. As for the rest, given what else I've stated about the game, I'd hardly be one of their fan kiddies. But I do understand the reality of these games, and I'm more than willing to support the ones I enjoy.