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Character class system, which do you prefer?
azzamasin
Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
What type of class system do you prefer? Classes or a skill based system. EQ has always been a class based game but I'm hoping they go with a Skill based system considering it is going to be a sandbox game.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
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Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Comments
Skill based can be alright at times, but games like everquest did a great job with classes. A class system allows for a lot more unique and interesting abilities and powers that a skill based system would really have difficult in handling
In the end, I prefer a good class system just since its a lot easier to give a real interesting flavor behind it that a skill based just can't really pull off and do. Wouldn't stop me from playing a skill based game mind you, but its just a lot better to me when its a class system.
I'm ready for a strong entry in the MMO genre that uses a mostly/all skill based system. It really has been a long time.
Would be neat just having a few loose archetypes you select, with a lot inside the archetype. Maybe you do have to choose early on whether you want to be a fighter, mage, or priest....but there's a ton of skills within the archetype (with most/all non combat stuff being shared like any crafting skills etc).
So your fighter is a fighter...but then you can go on and skill up various martial arts skills to be more like the EQ monk. Maybe some small bits of magic is available even for fighters, to go more along the SK or paladin route but in your own customized way. Stuff like that. Maybe the fighter spells don't work so well when you're wearing the strongest metal armors, so you do make a choice. I dunno.
By having the few archetypes, it would at least give people a reason to roll an alt or two, but at the same time your single character could do a lot more things so switching things up within the archetype could be done on one character.
Classes.
In most skill based games I've played... We all used the same thing end game. I'd rather have unique classes like my old monk, necro or Shm.
Or a combination of both. I don't really care to be honest. As long as the developers have a well thought out system that is all that matters.
tentonhammer commentary
EverQuest Next - The Power of Class Imbalances
http://www.tentonhammer.com/everquest-next/opinions/class-imbalance
Back in the day, classes were not created equally. Not even close. If you wanted to have a soloing powerhouse, you chose a Necromancer, Magician, Wizard, or Bard. If you wanted to get out of virtually any situation the game could throw at you, you chose a Monk. Tanks were tanks, healers were healers, and Enchanters were the undisputed masters of crowd control.
None of the classes were balanced in terms of being equally viable for solo or group play and quite frankly, the idea was ridiculous. Each class had a very specific role in groups (keep in mind group play was the overwhelming norm at the time) and as a result, each played very differently. By today's standards, all the classes were horribly imbalanced and not remotely equal. Rather than detract from gameplay though, it gave each player a clear sense of focus.
Main tank, off tank, healer, DPS, crowd control - these were all various roles that were filled by players depending directly on which class they chose at character creation. A Warrior made for a horrible DPS addition, but could take more damage and keep the attention of even the most flighty beast. The Ranger could pull a mob off the edge of a cluster from an incomprehensible amount of distance since no one could match its ranged ability with a bow. Monks and Necromancers were also masters of dangerous pulling situations thanks to their ability to feign death. And when a pull did go badly, it was the Enchanter that kept all the mobs frozen and in check while the party went to work taking targets down. The Cleric would keep the main tank alive as the DPS classes slowly started to build up their damage. Yes, I said slowly - the person that pulled aggro off a tank quickly found themselves without a heal since the game was about playing your role well, not trying to do the most damage as quickly as possible. Again, everyone had their roles.
Class imbalance was the norm and it clearly served a specific purpose. We need a game to come along and enforce various class roles to help steer the community into a more cooperative and self-regulating force. Clear class separation won't matter at all without the consequences (both good and bad) of a reputation that follows your character forever... but that's next week's topic!
EQ2 fan sites
If I had to pick one of the other it would skilled based but what I like is a hybrid of the 2. Class skills that make each class special and a large number of skills that any class can grab and make their own. ESO seems to have a cool system for this and I think more MMOs need to take this path. That being said....
EQN will have fixed classes I am sure. My guess we will see all the old faces. Monk, Enchanter but all packaged with a new twist. I just hope they bring back the bard with a new twist and is easy on the carpal tunnel =-)
I prefer skill based systems, because frankly, I loath being locked into one role. Every game, no matter what it is, the players are determined to stereotype roles. You have a shaman, you can cast heals, which means you must always heal my ass when I swing my giant sword. No, just no.
Classes should not be locked, they should have diversity and depth apart from simply, Me Tank, me swing sword, you heal me while dis guy stabs bad monster's back. The trinity works, but there are many more ways to achieve the trinity other than simply what class you pick.
Early EQ had this in their classes. Monks could DPS sure, but they could also offtank, and before PoP were the kings of pulling. Shaman could heal, but they could also have limited control and had the best slows in the game as well as the best buffs. Enchanters had Mesmerize, but they also had the best Mana regen, Charms, tradeskill spells and stuns in the game. Rogues had wicked DPS, but they also were the best scouts and the best at corpse recovery after a wipe (before set time invis).
Once other games came along, what class you picked determined what role you played, plain and simple. A skill based system is the only way, in my opinion, to break away from the stereotypes.
I had np soloing every class I played in EQ1, only class I did not play was a Warrior. Monk, Bard, Necro, Wazzy, Mage, Druid, Enchanter all had a different skill set and soloed very different but I never felt like i was hindered watching other players solo. Some required more brains to solo with but I like the skill curve
Having people watch me juggle 2-4 things at once and pull it off, was a lot of fun!
i would love an actual strict class system.
none of this swapping all over the place to be all sorts of things every 12 minutes.
what i would love more is a skill system within each class system.....
go tank... now train.. dodge based? armor based? skill up OT skills with big burner Defense skills but not a lot of longevity... train up MT skills, not a lot of damage but tons of agro holders and life.............
praying it's class based.
Everquest was built on social grouping and a class system. They have to stick to that principal.
Skill systems end up as 90% carbon copy characters once a good build is figured out. Stick to diversity and have a strong class/race sysytem.
Pretty sure they wont mess this one up. They have mentioned that they are after the old EQ player type, and that means it will be a class based game, maybe with a lot of flexibility.
A person asks why can't characters be all classes in more MMOs, similar to Final Fantasy 11, and Dave Georgeson (director of development on all EQ games) has an interesting response to it.
Dave's response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3aI5CRaQvEg#t=2755s
If I don't get to play my trio, I will be very upset, lol...
Monk, Necromancer and Druid.
So yeah, class system please!
I'm sure you'll be able to do that, but a single character may be able to switch between all classes, based on Dave Georgeson's reaction in my post above.
Strict classes unless someone can come up with a skill system that works, with a skill cap, that promotes diversity.
If all the skills in the game could be placed intelligently in skill trees, so a player could actually create classes like the preset classes of a game like Everquest, and then all the hybrid variations in between, I'd be interested. Until then, preset all the way.
So, I watched it and seems like some kind of skill system will be in EQnext. If I may make a wish, since I have played SWG from around publish 6-7. Can we please get SWG skill tree system? lol
Mix and match from several different professions.
I would love to see a class developement system, where you have room early and then develope into a fixed class. think of a spectrum, with pure tank on the left, high dps in the middle (ranged or melee, dont matter), and pure high healing on the right.
as you go, you choose what path you want and others are ruled out from you, but. you maybe get an "out of bounds skill" every few levels, so you can create classes like a classic paladin/shadowknight. (if spectrum doesnt work, think circle)
early, you would have access to a simple heal, CC and damage skill system, and at various lvls, you lose one. so as you level, and you realize you love tanking, you begin to pick up a taunt and pull skillset, and the heals become unavilable to you. this works closer on the spectrum as you advance forward.(see next)
example. casters after say 30 lvls (completely arbitrary). you have been going the caster/healing route, and have fallen further right on the tree away from DPS spells, and into the healing and CC area. you are now ruled away from a fire magician, have some healing and some small dps and some small CC. you hit 30, and here you have to determine whether you want to become a pure healing class, or a EQ style enchanter/ red mage(FF).
lvl1 ARCHETYPE aggro dps cc heals
lvl 10 taunt large dps smalldps dps spell freeze/bind single heal
lvl 20 +def skill damage DOT AOE damage magic dam sleep HOT
lvl 30 pulls/holds DPS(high lvl war) melee nukes Spell nukes AOE CC utility/buffs groupheals
you soloed as a rogue? they were the weakest soloers
EQ2 fan sites
Keep in mind, Class based systems don't always mean the classes will be unique. Sometimes a developer will take the easy way out, and just rename the abilities; thus making it merely a mirror class on a different faction.
I'm torn between what I would prefer. I tend to like skill bases systems more due to the inherent combinations you can come up with or being the one to come up with "The Build". Class systems do have their benefits. It is easier to balance.
Besides, in standard EQ fashion, we'll probably have another form of advancement outside of the typical level grind.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
I used to hate this, and I still do.
Anything that becomes the flavor of the month until they nerf or do something else. Everybody picks the same thing, and we then have multiple copies running around.
This is why I prefer class systems, then you can tell us apart because we're different professions.
You need an option for Don't Care.
I'm not a one trick Pony and can adapt to any system my only requirements are that it is rewarding,fun and balanced withing reasonable margin at end game.
My only problem with skill based/classless systems in MMORPGs in the past has been that in the end everyone tends to run the same type of OPed builds with slight variations and just a few oddball specialized ones here and there.
Didnt play a rogue past level 30. EQ1 being my first MMO was also where I learned I like ranged classes or utility. Pure melee seemed to miss the options I like to play with.