I'm very interested in playing this, but have a question.
What would you compare the game to more, EQ1 original, or WoW. This is a serious question, as I haven't had the same experience in a game since the original EQ and would love to get that feeling back. WoW's extremely linear and easy progression proved to be way to damn boring to me.
Anyway, sorry for such a comparison. I realize that FF IV could be far different from both games, but I would like some kind of comparison if possible.
It's far closer to WoW in my opinion. It's a very quest hub driven game at least for the first 20ish levels. You can actually see every single quest giver/turn in in your zone without having to even be near them. The zones feels a lot more closed in than both games.
Nothing has actually been difficult up to this point. I died a few times on one of the instanced story quest at 15 (they are similar to GW2 instanced story areas), but with patience and the use of the sleep spell was able to beat it. Most people just outlevel it and come back. We were not able to go in as a group in order to zerg it, so there was some challenge there.
The combat is slower paced (for instance almost all of my skills share a 2.5 second cooldown with a couple of exceptions that are instant and have a long individual cooldown). A lot of people enjoy the slower pace including me, but I feel like I should mention it since someone was saying that the combat is as fast paced as GW2 and other recent titles.
Group content has been extremely easy so far but I expect this to change into very difficult at some point since FFXI was known for its later difficult content. It's impossible to judge late game content though since I haven't actually been there.
I'd say that the game is a LOT better than their last offering of FFXIV. The UI has improved by about a million percent and I haven't run into any bugs up to this point. But this game is VERY themepark up until this point. People are probably going to blow me up for being as honest as I can be about the game, but there you go anyway.
That's actually incredibly surprising. FFXIV was originally a game that just threw you in the world and told you to go explore with virtually no quests or direction. Honestly, that was my favorite aspect of the game. Kind of disappointed to hear that it's just a linear quest grind now.
I'm very interested in playing this, but have a question.
What would you compare the game to more, EQ1 original, or WoW. This is a serious question, as I haven't had the same experience in a game since the original EQ and would love to get that feeling back. WoW's extremely linear and easy progression proved to be way to damn boring to me.
Anyway, sorry for such a comparison. I realize that FF IV could be far different from both games, but I would like some kind of comparison if possible.
I actually saw a description earlier that I can agree with mostly as a very general "well-rounded overall" statement...
"ARR is like a nice halfway point between FFXI and WoW."
I could really dissect that and find examples and exceptions, but that really sums it up nicely, I think.
That's actually incredibly surprising. FFXIV was originally a game that just threw you in the world and told you to go explore with virtually no quests or direction. Honestly, that was my favorite aspect of the game. Kind of disappointed to hear that it's just a linear quest grind now.
I wouldn't call it "linear", nor "quest grind". I mean, unless you choose to play it that way. One's experience in a MMO is, after all, directly tied to how they choose to play it. Treat it like a grind, it's going to feel like a grind. Treat it like a large world with a variety of different activities on offer, that's what it's going to feel like.
It does not send you directly from Hub A, to Hub B to Hub C, like a game of connect the dots. Each area has a range of content, and you can run past a bunch of level 10 mobs, to come across a bunch of level 20+.
The main storyline quests, mixed in with the regular ones, really break it up nicely (and are quite epic, in my opinion). There are FATEs that happen, pretty much literally everywhere, so you could chase those for a while if you wanted. Once you hit level 10, Leve quests open to you. Unlike 1.0 where they were originally intended to be "the meat and potatoes" of leveling, they fit quite nicely as "another option or thing to do". Then there's the dungeons which become available and reward XP, and so forth.
There really is a variety of things to be done... it is not linear at all in my opinion.
That's actually incredibly surprising. FFXIV was originally a game that just threw you in the world and told you to go explore with virtually no quests or direction. Honestly, that was my favorite aspect of the game. Kind of disappointed to hear that it's just a linear quest grind now.
I wouldn't call it "linear", nor "quest grind". I mean, unless you choose to play it that way. One's experience in a MMO is, after all, directly tied to how they choose to play it. Treat it like a grind, it's going to feel like a grind. Treat it like a large world with a variety of different activities on offer, that's what it's going to feel like.
It does not send you directly from Hub A, to Hub B to Hub C, like a game of connect the dots. Each area has a range of content, and you can run past a bunch of level 10 mobs, to come across a bunch of level 20+.
The main storyline quests, mixed in with the regular ones, really break it up nicely (and are quite epic, in my opinion). There are FATEs that happen, pretty much literally everywhere, so you could chase those for a while if you wanted. Once you hit level 10, Leve quests open to you. Unlike 1.0 where they were originally intended to be "the meat and potatoes" of leveling, they fit quite nicely as "another option or thing to do". Then there's the dungeons which become available and reward XP, and so forth.
There really is a variety of things to be done... it is not linear at all in my opinion.
Again... unless one chooses to play it that way.
Yeah, you can choose to play Rift by just doing Rifts or dungeons or whatever, but I think most people would say the game was a linear quest hub game. Fates are very similar to rifts and leves are just repeatable quests. Meh, it doesn't really matter, there will be an open beta at some point and everyone will see for themselves what it's like.
Sad to hear that it's a linear quest hub game ala Rift. So Wildstar and now this ugh. Maybe 2014 we will see a game that isn't a linear quest grinder. Thanks for the heads up guys.
I'm actually not that big of a fan of ARR. Admittedly, I haven't played it all that much (maybe 15 hours total over the first 3 beta phases). I enjoyed FFXIV 1.0 in its later stages, so I'm a bit bummed out with all the changes that have happened with ARR.
With that being said, graphically ARR is a gorgeous looking game (as was 1.0), and I really like the animations.
I intend to keep testing the game a little, see if ARR will somehow hook me with something interesting. I just don't have my hopes too high.
Originally posted by Mardukk Sad to hear that it's a linear quest hub game ala Rift. So Wildstar and now this ugh. Maybe 2014 we will see a game that isn't a linear quest grinder. Thanks for the heads up guys.
Except its not.
Quests are not the main focus of the game, by any means, Quests just tell the story.
If you think this is a linear quest grinder then you will be very sorely disappointed.
That's actually incredibly surprising. FFXIV was originally a game that just threw you in the world and told you to go explore with virtually no quests or direction. Honestly, that was my favorite aspect of the game. Kind of disappointed to hear that it's just a linear quest grind now.
Yeah, you can choose to play Rift by just doing Rifts or dungeons or whatever, but I think most people would say the game was a linear quest hub game. Fates are very similar to rifts and leves are just repeatable quests. Meh, it doesn't really matter, there will be an open beta at some point and everyone will see for themselves what it's like.
You're being very misleading here. Whether it's deliberate or not, I don't know.
What I"m saying is, I'm not being sent along a very deliberate and obvious path from "Quest Hub A" to "Quest Hub B" to "Quest Hub C" in ARR. It's not set up like that.
I'm being sent all over the region, between the city zones and the wilderness zones, doing a vareity of things. ARR's zones are not set up like other, more linear, MMOs where "This zone is for levels 1-10, this one is for levels 10-20", and then there are quest hubs directing you like a guided tour between them.
I've gone to locations to do some quests and then had to come back to them later because new quests had opened up that weren't there before, involving higher level content than I'd done the last time through. That's not "linear".
It's not "linear" because I could have done those quests. However, I could have ignored them and gone to do the quests in another area instead. I could also have ignored quests and chased FATEs around for a while. I could also have ignored all that and focused on my storyline missions. I could also have picked up some Leves and knocked a handful of those out. When I'm of level, I can also do dungeons and mix things up with that. And so on. All of those activities reward XP and they're all viable means of leveling.
That is not "inear quest hub grinding". That's "providing a variety of content at all levels, and letting the player decide how they want to mix and match".
There are quests scattered all around the map, in the major Aetheryte camps, in the smaller locations (like the Coffer and Coffin in Thanalan), or like a small section with a few tents. Content is scattered all over, for a variety of quest levels.
Like I said, if someone chooses to play it like a linear quest grind, then they could certainly choose to seek out the quests in a more guided "quest hub" like manner. But then that doesn't make the game a linear quest grind. It makes their choice of playstyle a linear quest grind.
I would call Rift a linear questgrind MMO because it is a linear quest grind MMO. Same with TERA. They send you along very deliberate paths from one quest hub to the next. You clear out the quests in one hub, you move on to the next... it's a very deliberate and obvious progression. ARR is not set up like that.
Yeah, you can choose to play Rift by just doing Rifts or dungeons or whatever, but I think most people would say the game was a linear quest hub game. Fates are very similar to rifts and leves are just repeatable quests. Meh, it doesn't really matter, there will be an open beta at some point and everyone will see for themselves what it's like.
Sure, you can force yourself to make it into a linear quest grind, then you'll run out of quests real fast and be confused and unhappy.
The side quests are entirely optional, and they actually TELL THE STORY OF THE WORLD, unlike 'kill 10 boars to feed my kids' quests.
You can fall FATE's like Rifts, but then you fundamentally missed what the point of the FATE system was. RIFT's do one tiny little thing, they open a rift and mobs come through, FATE's have a near unlimited potential for the type of encounter you will have. So its like RIFT in the fact that it has quests, and random encounters, yet only barely.
Leve's are more like daily quests, or bounty hunts in single player SE games.
EVERY Mechanic is based off a Final Fantasy single player game or is adapted from one to be an online feature of the final fantasy series.
You can compare apples and oranges, like we are now.
Originally posted by Mardukk Sad to hear that it's a linear quest hub game ala Rift. So Wildstar and now this ugh. Maybe 2014 we will see a game that isn't a linear quest grinder. Thanks for the heads up guys.
Except its not.
Quests are not the main focus of the game, by any means, Quests just tell the story.
If you think this is a linear quest grinder then you will be very sorely disappointed.
So ok. I know that once you are done with the quests that they will not be offered again which means that once you decide to level a different class, then the game loses it's quest hubby nature. After that is it leves (or hests), dungeons, fates and class quests (without the story quests and the hub quests)?
Originally posted by Mardukk Sad to hear that it's a linear quest hub game ala Rift. So Wildstar and now this ugh. Maybe 2014 we will see a game that isn't a linear quest grinder. Thanks for the heads up guys.
Except its not.
Quests are not the main focus of the game, by any means, Quests just tell the story.
If you think this is a linear quest grinder then you will be very sorely disappointed.
So ok. I know that once you are done with the quests that they will not be offered again which means that once you decide to level a different class, then the game loses it's quest hubby nature. After that is it leves (or hests), dungeons and class quests (without the story quests and the hub quests)?
Quests in other regions, FATEs, Dungeons, Leves.
There's also quests for each level range scattered about in different areas, so you can easily level up one class and still have more quests to do when you go back through it again.
Also bear in mind that, because there are several activities that reward xp and are viable to level up, it's quite feasible that you can skip multiple levels' worth of quest lines on your way up, leaving them available for another class, if you choose to do them. Each player will find what they enjoy doing and what they prefer to do.
There are also Grand Company quests, Class Quests, Job Quests, etc...
And of course, it's not like the world will be static and unchanging over time. SE can add more new quest lines in for different level ranges, etc.
That's actually incredibly surprising. FFXIV was originally a game that just threw you in the world and told you to go explore with virtually no quests or direction. Honestly, that was my favorite aspect of the game. Kind of disappointed to hear that it's just a linear quest grind now.
I wouldn't call it "linear", nor "quest grind". I mean, unless you choose to play it that way. One's experience in a MMO is, after all, directly tied to how they choose to play it. Treat it like a grind, it's going to feel like a grind. Treat it like a large world with a variety of different activities on offer, that's what it's going to feel like.
It does not send you directly from Hub A, to Hub B to Hub C, like a game of connect the dots. Each area has a range of content, and you can run past a bunch of level 10 mobs, to come across a bunch of level 20+.
The main storyline quests, mixed in with the regular ones, really break it up nicely (and are quite epic, in my opinion). There are FATEs that happen, pretty much literally everywhere, so you could chase those for a while if you wanted. Once you hit level 10, Leve quests open to you. Unlike 1.0 where they were originally intended to be "the meat and potatoes" of leveling, they fit quite nicely as "another option or thing to do". Then there's the dungeons which become available and reward XP, and so forth.
There really is a variety of things to be done... it is not linear at all in my opinion.
Again... unless one chooses to play it that way.
Yeah, you can choose to play Rift by just doing Rifts or dungeons or whatever, but I think most people would say the game was a linear quest hub game. Fates are very similar to rifts and leves are just repeatable quests. Meh, it doesn't really matter, there will be an open beta at some point and everyone will see for themselves what it's like.
You're being very misleading here. Whether it's deliberate or not, I don't know.
What I"m saying is, I'm not being sent along a very deliberate and obvious path from "Quest Hub A" to "Quest Hub B" to "Quest Hub C" in ARR. It's not set up like that.
I'm being sent all over the region, between the city zones and the wilderness zones, doing a vareity of things. ARR's zones are not set up like other, more linear, MMOs where "This zone is for levels 1-10, this one is for levels 10-20", and then there are quest hubs directing you like a guided tour between them.
I've gone to locations to get some quests and then had to come back to them later because new quests had opened up that weren't there before, involving higher level content. I could have done those quests. I could have ignored them and gone to do the quests in another area instead. I could have ignored quests and chased FATEs around. I could have ignored all that and focused on my storyline missions. I could have picked up some Leves and knocked a handful of those out. And so on. All of those activities reward XP and they're all viable means of leveling.
Each zone has a wide range of mob levels, with a variety of content spread about between and among them. The game might "nudge" you in a direction, or might place you in a location where other content of your level is available, but it's by no means leading you around by the nose. Not in the least.
There are quests scattered all around the map, in the major Aetheryte camps, in the smaller locations (like the Coffer and Coffin in Thanalan), or like a small section with a few tents. Quests are scattered all over, for a variety of quest levels.
Like I said, if someone chooses to play it like a linear quest grind, then they could certainly choose to seek out the quests in a more guided "quest hub" like manner. But then that doesn't make the game a linear quest grind. It makes their choice of playstyle a linear quest grind.
I would call Rift a linear questgrind MMO because it is a linear quest grind MMO. Same with TERA. They send you along very deliberate paths from one quest hub to the next. You clear out the quests in one hub, you move on to the next... it's a very deliberate and obvious progression. ARR is not set up like that.
Well said, I was starting to think the same thing. I'm still puzzled at the whole "it feels more closed in than WoW" comment lol. I was getting a completely opposite impression myself.
I also agree that the game is only as linear as you make it. I've been randomly questing as I do the main story quests, and it hasn't, at all, felt linear to me. Yes, some of the quests are going to be similar obviously, but that's just the nature of the beast with just about any themepark-ish mmorpg these days.
And just to reiterate what you said, the game feels much less linear than say WoW or Rift, where you're led by the nose every step of the way, from quest hub to quest hub. I've actually found it necessary to use the map/re-read the quest log information quite a few times already, which is more than I can say for either of the other two.
That said, ARR deserves the credit it's been getting, imo.
Originally posted by Mardukk Sad to hear that it's a linear quest hub game ala Rift. So Wildstar and now this ugh. Maybe 2014 we will see a game that isn't a linear quest grinder. Thanks for the heads up guys.
Except its not.
Quests are not the main focus of the game, by any means, Quests just tell the story.
If you think this is a linear quest grinder then you will be very sorely disappointed.
So ok. I know that once you are done with the quests that they will not be offered again which means that once you decide to level a different class, then the game loses it's quest hubby nature. After that is it leves (or hests), dungeons, fates and class quests (without the story quests and the hub quests)?
Yes.
As I said, the quests are only there to tell the story and reward you for doing the story.
The Story is quite excellent, and very Final Fantasy.
After you complete the story, yes you gotta go do some horizontal progression leveling where you group up with people to do content, like FATE's, Leve's, GuildHests, Dungeons, Crafting.
Oh and the Hunting Log is PER JOB/ CLASS so you can do that every time you level a class / job.
There is NO quest hubbing required, you don't ever need to do any side quests, you could only do the main quest line that tells you only the VERY MAIN story arc of the game.
This game really does give you a 'choose how to play' feel.D
Edit: I disagree entirely that it feels 'quest hubby' When I play a game and it has me travel all over its world repeatedly to zones I've been before to do more story back and forth. That doesn't make a 'quest hub'
When you go to a farm, and there is ONE quest, which leads you to tell you all about the farm and has you help bring the farm back from the brick of destruction. How is THAT a quest hub?
Originally posted by Mardukk Sad to hear that it's a linear quest hub game ala Rift. So Wildstar and now this ugh. Maybe 2014 we will see a game that isn't a linear quest grinder. Thanks for the heads up guys.
Except its not.
Quests are not the main focus of the game, by any means, Quests just tell the story.
If you think this is a linear quest grinder then you will be very sorely disappointed.
So ok. I know that once you are done with the quests that they will not be offered again which means that once you decide to level a different class, then the game loses it's quest hubby nature. After that is it leves (or hests), dungeons, fates and class quests (without the story quests and the hub quests)?
Yes, that is right. Leves and FATE are basically more quests with slightly different presentation. I'm not sure why people think the core of XIV is different than any other themepark MMO. It's not, and that's okay. It's pretty, and has the name Final Fantasy in the title which is more than enough for a lot of people.
Originally posted by Mardukk Sad to hear that it's a linear quest hub game ala Rift. So Wildstar and now this ugh. Maybe 2014 we will see a game that isn't a linear quest grinder. Thanks for the heads up guys.
Except its not.
Quests are not the main focus of the game, by any means, Quests just tell the story.
If you think this is a linear quest grinder then you will be very sorely disappointed.
So ok. I know that once you are done with the quests that they will not be offered again which means that once you decide to level a different class, then the game loses it's quest hubby nature. After that is it leves (or hests), dungeons and class quests (without the story quests and the hub quests)?
Quests in other regions, FATEs, Dungeons, Leves.
There's also quests for each level range scattered about in different areas, so you can easily level up one class and still have more quests to do when you go back through it again.
Also bear in mind that, because there are several activities that reward xp and are viable to level up, it's quite feasible that you can skip multiple levels' worth of quest lines on your way up, leaving them available for another class, if you choose to do them. Each player will find what they enjoy doing and what they prefer to do.
And of course, it's not like the world will be static and unchanging over time. SE can add more new quest lines in for different level ranges, etc.
I know you think I'm trying to twist it or something, but from my point of view at least, it looks like you are trying to twist it.
I will just say that an extremely efficient way of leveling, at least up till level 20, is to go through quest hub style progression that you see in typical themepark MMORPGs. You can (and I do), mix in fates (very similar to rifts) and leves (daily type quests) while I solo level extremely efficiently using the quest hub system.
I mean, when I look at what you're saying, that is how every game works. You can do dungeons in WoW and skip 20 levels worth of quest hubs easily. I'm sure you can do that in this game. But the structure is in place for efficient leveling through hub-like quests at least up until 20. And it looks like that will continue even after you change classes because there are multiple early level zones (which is kind of a duh moment for me because I knew there was a whole other city with low level zones associated with it).
I'm looking forward to release so I can really spend a lot of time playing FFXIV. Probably the most anticipated game of the year for me.
To the guy above, I don't really know which one I'd compare it to. Which aspect of the original EQ did you enjoy? Was it the difficulty, grind, quests, 20+ classes, setting or what? FFXIV isn't a very difficult game, but does allow you more freedom than something like WoW. Honestly, it felt more like a world due to various activities besides combat playing a large role in the game.
immersive world, group play, the grind wasn't a grind to me because I had fun and wasn't in a hurry to reach "end game". I don't like the idea of end game, I feel every part of game world should be enjoyed throughout the life of your character. Unlike WoW or Rift where you zoom past areas and never see them again.
I'm with you on this. The idea of endgame is always a plague from the MMO genre . I've never played an RPG and said to myself, man I can't wait to beat this game so I can repeat dungeons. It's like wanting to read the last page of the book and hoping for a long epilogue.
There's also quests for each level range scattered about in different areas, so you can easily level up one class and still have more quests to do when you go back through it again.
Also bear in mind that, because there are several activities that reward xp and are viable to level up, it's quite feasible that you can skip multiple levels' worth of quest lines on your way up, leaving them available for another class, if you choose to do them. Each player will find what they enjoy doing and what they prefer to do.
And of course, it's not like the world will be static and unchanging over time. SE can add more new quest lines in for different level ranges, etc.
I know you think I'm trying to twist it or something, but from my point of view at least, it looks like you are trying to twist it.
Nope. I'm not twisting anything. You, however, definitely are.
I will just say that an extremely efficient way of leveling, at least up till level 20, is to go through quest hub style progression that you see in typical themepark MMORPGs. You can (and I do), mix in fates (very similar to rifts) and leves (daily type quests) while I solo level extremely efficiently using the quest hub system.
What you're describing there is your own personal preference. It's how you like to progress and how you like to mix up your time and activities. The key thing here - and this is key - is that you're doing so by your own choice. In ARR, you're choosing to go through the quests "quest hub style". You're not forced to, whatever your reasons (more efficient leveling, etc).
I mean, when I look at what you're saying, that is how every game works. You can do dungeons in WoW and skip 20 levels worth of quest hubs easily. I'm sure you can do that in this game. But the structure is in place for efficient leveling through hub-like quests at least up until 20. And it looks like that will continue even after you change classes because there are multiple early level zones (which is kind of a duh moment for me because I knew there was a whole other city with low level zones associated with it).
The structure is in place to allow you to mix up the activities however you wish to mix them up, at any given time, on any given Class. Because you can choose to approach the quests in a very grindy, "linear quest-hub" type of manner, does not mean you have to. If I decided I was concerned about "the most efficient leveling", I could certainly do something similar, or find some other approach that serves my ends just as well. My approach would likely be quite different from your own, yet we'd both get where we're going, on our own terms, through our own choices.
And that's the important distinction between ARR and WoW, or any other Quest-Hub driven game. In WoW if you want to do the quests, you have to follow their very deliberate hub-based layout, or you don't even have the option to "skip content", because it's not even offered to you in the first place. And I'm not talking one or two quests. I'm talking entire storylines, across numerous NPCs.
How many times do you see in a MMO like WoW where you finish up a quest line for one NPC, and suddenly 3 or 4 new Quests open up for you? You haven't leveled. You merely turned in a quest. Now all of a sudden several more are available. And then there's new quests that come available only after completing those?
And then there's one of the primary indicators of a typical quest hub setup (in my experience):
You finish up the final quest in "Hub A", and a new quest marker pops up above a NPC's head. That NPCs quest for you is "Well it looks like you're done here and will be heading toward "Hub B". I have a friend there who's waiting on a delivery, but I can't leave my post. I don't want to keep him waiting, so could you do me the favor, since you're heading that way, and bring it to him? I'm sure he'll make it worth the effort".
You run down the road and get to "Hub B". There you see maybe one or two quests available. But, you stop off at the NPC with the "Quest Completion" icon over their head. You finish the quest and all of a sudden 6 or 7 new quest markers that weren't there before light up. And so begins the grind to "finish" "Hub B", so you can have a similar encounter with another NPC who will, similarly, send you on down the road to "Hub C", with a message or package to deliver, or in response to some request for assistance.And on and on. A strictly guided path, all the way up the levels.
See the catch there, though? In order to get those quests to open up to you at Hub B, you have to deliver that package from the NPC in Hub A. And in order for that NPC in Hub A to even offer you the task, you have to have first completed all the required quest content prior to that, much of which also had prerequisites to unlock. It's linear as linear can get.
And if you're paying attention along the way, you'll notice two other things that define a standard "Quest Hub Grind" setup:
1. All creatures and encounters in the zone are always within the exact level range of the quests you'll get. You'll never find pockets of mobs that are level 10, near mobs that are 30 in WoW. Because each zone and Quest Hub is designed around a specific level range. If the zone is designed to get you from level 10 to 20, then everything you fight is going to be within the range of a level 10-20 player to take on. There's nothing to go back to that area for at level 30. The level 30 content is all focused around 'Quest Hub F', farther down the deliberately guided path.
ARR is not set up like that.
2. Once you're finished with a quest hub, and move on to the next, you'll never be given reason to go back. You've out-leveled the content, you've finished the quests, there's nothing for you there. Just keep on moving forward on the very deliberately directed path toward end-game.
That is how a typical Quest Hub MMO is set up. That is most certainly not how ARR is setup.
Originally posted by Mardukk Sad to hear that it's a linear quest hub game ala Rift. So Wildstar and now this ugh. Maybe 2014 we will see a game that isn't a linear quest grinder. Thanks for the heads up guys.
Except its not.
Quests are not the main focus of the game, by any means, Quests just tell the story.
If you think this is a linear quest grinder then you will be very sorely disappointed.
So ok. I know that once you are done with the quests that they will not be offered again which means that once you decide to level a different class, then the game loses it's quest hubby nature. After that is it leves (or hests), dungeons and class quests (without the story quests and the hub quests)?
Quests in other regions, FATEs, Dungeons, Leves.
There's also quests for each level range scattered about in different areas, so you can easily level up one class and still have more quests to do when you go back through it again.
Also bear in mind that, because there are several activities that reward xp and are viable to level up, it's quite feasible that you can skip multiple levels' worth of quest lines on your way up, leaving them available for another class, if you choose to do them. Each player will find what they enjoy doing and what they prefer to do.
And of course, it's not like the world will be static and unchanging over time. SE can add more new quest lines in for different level ranges, etc.
I know you think I'm trying to twist it or something, but from my point of view at least, it looks like you are trying to twist it.
I will just say that an extremely efficient way of leveling, at least up till level 20, is to go through quest hub style progression that you see in typical themepark MMORPGs. You can (and I do), mix in fates (very similar to rifts) and leves (daily type quests) while I solo level extremely efficiently using the quest hub system.
I mean, when I look at what you're saying, that is how every game works. You can do dungeons in WoW and skip 20 levels worth of quest hubs easily. I'm sure you can do that in this game. But the structure is in place for efficient leveling through hub-like quests at least up until 20. And it looks like that will continue even after you change classes because there are multiple early level zones (which is kind of a duh moment for me because I knew there was a whole other city with low level zones associated with it).
So what would you suggest - we go back 10 years in time, back to the days of mindlessly killing mobs from one to the next, while watching a small blue bar crawl by a fraction of a percent each time? Quest driven games are still popular, and for good reason. All developers can really do is add in other options that offer a similar kind of satisfaction/reward, such as the dynamic events and whatnot, which ARR seems to have plenty of. This is kind of beside the point though.
I think you and Ayulin are arguing about slightly different things here. You are saying that the game seems very quest driven, at least initially, as it's an efficient means for getting those first 20 levels or so, and I'm inclined to agree. What Ayulin is arguing though is that the way the quest placement is setup, it feels much less linear than something like WoW, where your only viable option for progression is to go from one direct quest hub path to the next - I also agree with that completely. I'm proof that you can just follow the main story quest, and pick up random side quests as you go in no particular order, and still progress at an adequate pace. Add to that, the mixing in of random FATEs and whatnot, and you end up with a leveling experience that is at least somewhat unique on a person-to-person basis.
In the end it all comes down to choice, and all these devs can do is give us options to diversify them as we see fit. I think SE has done a pretty good job with that given the nature of the genre, and personally, I haven't yet had a sense of stark linearity since I started playing. Your mileage obviously may vary.
Yeah, the thing that gets me the most about this game is how polished it is so early on, as well as the fact that they plan to add a lot of stuff along the way to make what's already sweet even sweeter. I'm personally looking forward to more PvP stuff, but the longevity of the game is unparalleled due to being able to level the other classes/jobs/crafts/etc. That, and it all benefits you in the end because it makes you a more useful and versatile player. It definitely does take the best from the best and make it its own. We'll see what happens with it. I just pre-ordered it at Gamestop.
There's also quests for each level range scattered about in different areas, so you can easily level up one class and still have more quests to do when you go back through it again.
Also bear in mind that, because there are several activities that reward xp and are viable to level up, it's quite feasible that you can skip multiple levels' worth of quest lines on your way up, leaving them available for another class, if you choose to do them. Each player will find what they enjoy doing and what they prefer to do.
And of course, it's not like the world will be static and unchanging over time. SE can add more new quest lines in for different level ranges, etc.
I know you think I'm trying to twist it or something, but from my point of view at least, it looks like you are trying to twist it.
Nope. I'm not twisting anything. You, however, definitely are.
I will just say that an extremely efficient way of leveling, at least up till level 20, is to go through quest hub style progression that you see in typical themepark MMORPGs. You can (and I do), mix in fates (very similar to rifts) and leves (daily type quests) while I solo level extremely efficiently using the quest hub system.
What you're describing there is your own personal preference in how you like to progress and how you like to mix up your time and activities. The key thing here - and this is key - is that you're doing so by your own choice. You're choosing to go through the quests "quest hub style". You're not forced to, whatever your reasons (efficient leveling, etc).
Yeah, and just like in Rift or WoW, it is also my choice. But it is also extremely efficient to do it through quests hubs.
I mean, when I look at what you're saying, that is how every game works. You can do dungeons in WoW and skip 20 levels worth of quest hubs easily. I'm sure you can do that in this game. But the structure is in place for efficient leveling through hub-like quests at least up until 20. And it looks like that will continue even after you change classes because there are multiple early level zones (which is kind of a duh moment for me because I knew there was a whole other city with low level zones associated with it).
The structure is in place to allow you to mix up the activities however you wish to mix them up, at any given time, on any given Class. Because you can choose to approach the quests in a very grindy, "linear quest-hub" type of manner, does not mean you have to. If I decided I was concerned about "the most efficient leveling", I could certainly do something similar, or find some other approach that serves my ends just as well. My approach would likely be quite different from your own, yet we'd both get where we're going, on our own terms, through our own choices.
And that's the important distinction between ARR and WoW. In WoW if you want to do the quests, you have to follow their very deliberate hub-based layout, or you don't even have the option to "skip content", because it's not even offered to you in the first place. And I'm not talking one or two quests. I'm talking entire storylines and NPCs worth.
No, you can go to different zones and level in different areas. Actually there are likely many more options for solo leveling in WoW right now. There is even a board inside cities that you can accept a quest to that will take you to an area around your level range if you happen to skip major portions. And you have plenty of ways to skip content including dungeons and PvP.
How many times do you see this happen in a MMO like WoW where you finish up a quest line and suddenly 3 or 4 new Quests open up for you. You haven't leveled. You merely turned in a quest. Now all of a sudden several more are available. And then there's new quests that come available only after completing those?
You finish up the final quest in "Hub A", and a new quest marker pops up above a NPC's head. That NPCs quest for you is "Well it looks like you're done here and will be heading toward "Hub B". I have a friend there who's waiting on a delivery, but I can't leave my post. I don't want to keep him waiting, so could you do me the favor, since you're heading that way, and bring it to him? I'm sure he'll make it worth the effort".
You run down the road and get to "Hub B". There you see maybe one or two quests available. But, you stop off at the NPC with the "Quest Completion" icon over their head. You finish the quest and all of a sudden 6 or 7 new quest markers that weren't there before light up.
That happens in this game. Actually, in this game, most of the time it just shows the 4 or so quests at the hub no matter where you are in the zone. And sometimes you need to complete a quest before more pop up. And quest givers often tell you where to go (in the form of a quest) to get to the next hub.
And if you're paying attention along the way, you'll notice two other things that define a standard "Quest Hub Grind" setup:
1. All creatures and encounters in the zone are always within the exact level range of the quests you'll get.
Like 95% of the mobs in the zones are around the same level as the quests next to them. I don't know where you get this idea that the game is not like that.
2. Once you're finished with a quest hub, and move on to the next, you'll never be given reason to go back. You've out-leveled the content, you've finished the quests, there's nothing for you there. Just keep on moving forward on the very deliberately directed path toward end-game.
The only reason you'd go back in this game is if you are starting another class. Why would you go back to a previous area unless a quest asked you to talk to some guy
What reason is there to go bak in FFXIV? I don't see a single reason. Perhaps the story quests force you to go back for a quick pit stop, but I haven't even encountered that yet. Or maybe you are talking about switching your class and then going back to do leves/fates?
That is how a typical Quest Hub MMO is set up. That is most certainly not how ARR is setup.
I'm not twisting anything.
It is true that you can choose to play the game differently by playing in a group or grinding on fates/leves. But that is like almost every recent themepark MMORPG. And I don't think that's a bad thing and am actually having fun with it.
When people say the game is "good" I feel like they mean that the game is "the rule" and not the exception. I don't like the game. That is no secret. The insane amount of quests, levequests, FATE system, etc, are all just ways to guide the player from point A to B so they can spam buttons ad infinitum. These systems are all ends in themselves. They could be used to introduce the player to a world, instead of giving the player a world of quests. Still looking for an exceptional game.........
Originally posted by Mardukk Sad to hear that it's a linear quest hub game ala Rift. So Wildstar and now this ugh. Maybe 2014 we will see a game that isn't a linear quest grinder. Thanks for the heads up guys.
Except its not.
Quests are not the main focus of the game, by any means, Quests just tell the story.
If you think this is a linear quest grinder then you will be very sorely disappointed.
So ok. I know that once you are done with the quests that they will not be offered again which means that once you decide to level a different class, then the game loses it's quest hubby nature. After that is it leves (or hests), dungeons and class quests (without the story quests and the hub quests)?
Quests in other regions, FATEs, Dungeons, Leves.
There's also quests for each level range scattered about in different areas, so you can easily level up one class and still have more quests to do when you go back through it again.
Also bear in mind that, because there are several activities that reward xp and are viable to level up, it's quite feasible that you can skip multiple levels' worth of quest lines on your way up, leaving them available for another class, if you choose to do them. Each player will find what they enjoy doing and what they prefer to do.
And of course, it's not like the world will be static and unchanging over time. SE can add more new quest lines in for different level ranges, etc.
I know you think I'm trying to twist it or something, but from my point of view at least, it looks like you are trying to twist it.
I will just say that an extremely efficient way of leveling, at least up till level 20, is to go through quest hub style progression that you see in typical themepark MMORPGs. You can (and I do), mix in fates (very similar to rifts) and leves (daily type quests) while I solo level extremely efficiently using the quest hub system.
I mean, when I look at what you're saying, that is how every game works. You can do dungeons in WoW and skip 20 levels worth of quest hubs easily. I'm sure you can do that in this game. But the structure is in place for efficient leveling through hub-like quests at least up until 20. And it looks like that will continue even after you change classes because there are multiple early level zones (which is kind of a duh moment for me because I knew there was a whole other city with low level zones associated with it).
So what would you suggest - we go back 10 years in time, back to the days of mindlessly killing mobs from one to the next, while watching a small blue bar crawl by a fraction of a percent each time? Quest driven games are still popular, and for good reason. All developers can really do is add in other options that offer a similar kind of satisfaction/reward, such as the dynamic events and whatnot, which ARR seems to have plenty of. This is kind of beside the point though.
I think you and Ayulin are arguing about slightly different things here. You are saying that the game seems very quest driven, at least initially, as it's an efficient means for getting those first 20 levels or so, and I'm inclined to agree. What Ayulin is arguing though is that the way the quest placement is setup, it feels much less linear than something like WoW, where your only viable option for progression is to go from one direct quest hub path to the next - I also agree with that completely. I'm proof that you can just follow the main story quest, and pick up random side quests as you go in no particular order, and still progress at an adequate pace. Add to that, the mixing in of random FATEs and whatnot, and you end up with a leveling experience that is at least somewhat unique on a person-to-person basis.
In the end it all comes down to choice, and all these devs can do is give us options to diversify them as we see fit. I think SE has done a pretty good job with that given the nature of the genre, and personally, I haven't yet had a sense of stark linearity since I started playing. Your mileage obviously may vary.
Edit: Mark of the beast post count, baby!
I'm not suggesting anything or even saying that it's bad. I'm just saying that the game is that way because someone asked about whether this game was more like EQ or WoW. I can agree that to some it doesn't feel that linear but it does feel like there are quest hubs everywhere. But to someone that is coming from the perspective of EQ, I think an argument can me made that these hubs really do lead you from one hub to the next if you follow them and are a very efficient way to level. I mean, just the fact that you can see all of the available quests in the zone on your map (including ones that are too high level for you in red) shows that this game really does have hub-like questing as a central pillar of its progression.
I don't know. I'm not trying to make it sound bad, but this is a pretty traditional way to present the leveling experience in my opinion and if someone likes progressing this way, it's there for them. You can do other things like look at the map and head to the closest fate and complete those for a few hours instead. You can accept a few leves a day to help break up the questing (but really those are just quests). You can group up and do content together including hests and dungeons (or whatever you call them). And there is nothing wrong with those fundamentals. But those are the fundamentals of leveling progression for this game.
Comments
That's actually incredibly surprising. FFXIV was originally a game that just threw you in the world and told you to go explore with virtually no quests or direction. Honestly, that was my favorite aspect of the game. Kind of disappointed to hear that it's just a linear quest grind now.
I actually saw a description earlier that I can agree with mostly as a very general "well-rounded overall" statement...
"ARR is like a nice halfway point between FFXI and WoW."
I could really dissect that and find examples and exceptions, but that really sums it up nicely, I think.
I wouldn't call it "linear", nor "quest grind". I mean, unless you choose to play it that way. One's experience in a MMO is, after all, directly tied to how they choose to play it. Treat it like a grind, it's going to feel like a grind. Treat it like a large world with a variety of different activities on offer, that's what it's going to feel like.
It does not send you directly from Hub A, to Hub B to Hub C, like a game of connect the dots. Each area has a range of content, and you can run past a bunch of level 10 mobs, to come across a bunch of level 20+.
The main storyline quests, mixed in with the regular ones, really break it up nicely (and are quite epic, in my opinion). There are FATEs that happen, pretty much literally everywhere, so you could chase those for a while if you wanted. Once you hit level 10, Leve quests open to you. Unlike 1.0 where they were originally intended to be "the meat and potatoes" of leveling, they fit quite nicely as "another option or thing to do". Then there's the dungeons which become available and reward XP, and so forth.
There really is a variety of things to be done... it is not linear at all in my opinion.
Again... unless one chooses to play it that way.
Yeah, you can choose to play Rift by just doing Rifts or dungeons or whatever, but I think most people would say the game was a linear quest hub game. Fates are very similar to rifts and leves are just repeatable quests. Meh, it doesn't really matter, there will be an open beta at some point and everyone will see for themselves what it's like.
I'm actually not that big of a fan of ARR. Admittedly, I haven't played it all that much (maybe 15 hours total over the first 3 beta phases). I enjoyed FFXIV 1.0 in its later stages, so I'm a bit bummed out with all the changes that have happened with ARR.
With that being said, graphically ARR is a gorgeous looking game (as was 1.0), and I really like the animations.
I intend to keep testing the game a little, see if ARR will somehow hook me with something interesting. I just don't have my hopes too high.
This game is an online Final Fantasy game, calling it an MMO is almost off base.
Its excellent, it takes elements from other online games, and makes them its own.
It is an online Final Fantasy game, with online game play elements that are taken from the best parts of the best other online games.
Except its not.
Quests are not the main focus of the game, by any means, Quests just tell the story.
If you think this is a linear quest grinder then you will be very sorely disappointed.
You're being very misleading here. Whether it's deliberate or not, I don't know.
What I"m saying is, I'm not being sent along a very deliberate and obvious path from "Quest Hub A" to "Quest Hub B" to "Quest Hub C" in ARR. It's not set up like that.
I'm being sent all over the region, between the city zones and the wilderness zones, doing a vareity of things. ARR's zones are not set up like other, more linear, MMOs where "This zone is for levels 1-10, this one is for levels 10-20", and then there are quest hubs directing you like a guided tour between them.
I've gone to locations to do some quests and then had to come back to them later because new quests had opened up that weren't there before, involving higher level content than I'd done the last time through. That's not "linear".
It's not "linear" because I could have done those quests. However, I could have ignored them and gone to do the quests in another area instead. I could also have ignored quests and chased FATEs around for a while. I could also have ignored all that and focused on my storyline missions. I could also have picked up some Leves and knocked a handful of those out. When I'm of level, I can also do dungeons and mix things up with that. And so on. All of those activities reward XP and they're all viable means of leveling.
That is not "inear quest hub grinding". That's "providing a variety of content at all levels, and letting the player decide how they want to mix and match".
There are quests scattered all around the map, in the major Aetheryte camps, in the smaller locations (like the Coffer and Coffin in Thanalan), or like a small section with a few tents. Content is scattered all over, for a variety of quest levels.
Like I said, if someone chooses to play it like a linear quest grind, then they could certainly choose to seek out the quests in a more guided "quest hub" like manner. But then that doesn't make the game a linear quest grind. It makes their choice of playstyle a linear quest grind.
I would call Rift a linear questgrind MMO because it is a linear quest grind MMO. Same with TERA. They send you along very deliberate paths from one quest hub to the next. You clear out the quests in one hub, you move on to the next... it's a very deliberate and obvious progression. ARR is not set up like that.
Sure, you can force yourself to make it into a linear quest grind, then you'll run out of quests real fast and be confused and unhappy.
The side quests are entirely optional, and they actually TELL THE STORY OF THE WORLD, unlike 'kill 10 boars to feed my kids' quests.
You can fall FATE's like Rifts, but then you fundamentally missed what the point of the FATE system was. RIFT's do one tiny little thing, they open a rift and mobs come through, FATE's have a near unlimited potential for the type of encounter you will have. So its like RIFT in the fact that it has quests, and random encounters, yet only barely.
Leve's are more like daily quests, or bounty hunts in single player SE games.
EVERY Mechanic is based off a Final Fantasy single player game or is adapted from one to be an online feature of the final fantasy series.
You can compare apples and oranges, like we are now.
Final Fantasy is the orange.
So ok. I know that once you are done with the quests that they will not be offered again which means that once you decide to level a different class, then the game loses it's quest hubby nature. After that is it leves (or hests), dungeons, fates and class quests (without the story quests and the hub quests)?
Quests in other regions, FATEs, Dungeons, Leves.
There's also quests for each level range scattered about in different areas, so you can easily level up one class and still have more quests to do when you go back through it again.
Also bear in mind that, because there are several activities that reward xp and are viable to level up, it's quite feasible that you can skip multiple levels' worth of quest lines on your way up, leaving them available for another class, if you choose to do them. Each player will find what they enjoy doing and what they prefer to do.
There are also Grand Company quests, Class Quests, Job Quests, etc...
And of course, it's not like the world will be static and unchanging over time. SE can add more new quest lines in for different level ranges, etc.
Well said, I was starting to think the same thing. I'm still puzzled at the whole "it feels more closed in than WoW" comment lol. I was getting a completely opposite impression myself.
I also agree that the game is only as linear as you make it. I've been randomly questing as I do the main story quests, and it hasn't, at all, felt linear to me. Yes, some of the quests are going to be similar obviously, but that's just the nature of the beast with just about any themepark-ish mmorpg these days.
And just to reiterate what you said, the game feels much less linear than say WoW or Rift, where you're led by the nose every step of the way, from quest hub to quest hub. I've actually found it necessary to use the map/re-read the quest log information quite a few times already, which is more than I can say for either of the other two.
That said, ARR deserves the credit it's been getting, imo.
Yes.
As I said, the quests are only there to tell the story and reward you for doing the story.
The Story is quite excellent, and very Final Fantasy.
After you complete the story, yes you gotta go do some horizontal progression leveling where you group up with people to do content, like FATE's, Leve's, GuildHests, Dungeons, Crafting.
Oh and the Hunting Log is PER JOB/ CLASS so you can do that every time you level a class / job.
There is NO quest hubbing required, you don't ever need to do any side quests, you could only do the main quest line that tells you only the VERY MAIN story arc of the game.
This game really does give you a 'choose how to play' feel.D
Edit: I disagree entirely that it feels 'quest hubby' When I play a game and it has me travel all over its world repeatedly to zones I've been before to do more story back and forth. That doesn't make a 'quest hub'
When you go to a farm, and there is ONE quest, which leads you to tell you all about the farm and has you help bring the farm back from the brick of destruction. How is THAT a quest hub?
Its not.
Omfg, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS GAME!. This game is great. It feels great and looks even better.
I cant wait for release. I hope to see you all in-game on GOBLIN server!!
Yes indeed,
this game is freaking awesome.
100% agreed with the OP.
Yes, that is right. Leves and FATE are basically more quests with slightly different presentation. I'm not sure why people think the core of XIV is different than any other themepark MMO. It's not, and that's okay. It's pretty, and has the name Final Fantasy in the title which is more than enough for a lot of people.
I know you think I'm trying to twist it or something, but from my point of view at least, it looks like you are trying to twist it.
I will just say that an extremely efficient way of leveling, at least up till level 20, is to go through quest hub style progression that you see in typical themepark MMORPGs. You can (and I do), mix in fates (very similar to rifts) and leves (daily type quests) while I solo level extremely efficiently using the quest hub system.
I mean, when I look at what you're saying, that is how every game works. You can do dungeons in WoW and skip 20 levels worth of quest hubs easily. I'm sure you can do that in this game. But the structure is in place for efficient leveling through hub-like quests at least up until 20. And it looks like that will continue even after you change classes because there are multiple early level zones (which is kind of a duh moment for me because I knew there was a whole other city with low level zones associated with it).
I'm with you on this. The idea of endgame is always a plague from the MMO genre . I've never played an RPG and said to myself, man I can't wait to beat this game so I can repeat dungeons. It's like wanting to read the last page of the book and hoping for a long epilogue.
I
So what would you suggest - we go back 10 years in time, back to the days of mindlessly killing mobs from one to the next, while watching a small blue bar crawl by a fraction of a percent each time? Quest driven games are still popular, and for good reason. All developers can really do is add in other options that offer a similar kind of satisfaction/reward, such as the dynamic events and whatnot, which ARR seems to have plenty of. This is kind of beside the point though.
I think you and Ayulin are arguing about slightly different things here. You are saying that the game seems very quest driven, at least initially, as it's an efficient means for getting those first 20 levels or so, and I'm inclined to agree. What Ayulin is arguing though is that the way the quest placement is setup, it feels much less linear than something like WoW, where your only viable option for progression is to go from one direct quest hub path to the next - I also agree with that completely. I'm proof that you can just follow the main story quest, and pick up random side quests as you go in no particular order, and still progress at an adequate pace. Add to that, the mixing in of random FATEs and whatnot, and you end up with a leveling experience that is at least somewhat unique on a person-to-person basis.
In the end it all comes down to choice, and all these devs can do is give us options to diversify them as we see fit. I think SE has done a pretty good job with that given the nature of the genre, and personally, I haven't yet had a sense of stark linearity since I started playing. Your mileage obviously may vary.
Edit: Mark of the beast post count, baby!
It is true that you can choose to play the game differently by playing in a group or grinding on fates/leves. But that is like almost every recent themepark MMORPG. And I don't think that's a bad thing and am actually having fun with it.
I'm not suggesting anything or even saying that it's bad. I'm just saying that the game is that way because someone asked about whether this game was more like EQ or WoW. I can agree that to some it doesn't feel that linear but it does feel like there are quest hubs everywhere. But to someone that is coming from the perspective of EQ, I think an argument can me made that these hubs really do lead you from one hub to the next if you follow them and are a very efficient way to level. I mean, just the fact that you can see all of the available quests in the zone on your map (including ones that are too high level for you in red) shows that this game really does have hub-like questing as a central pillar of its progression.
I don't know. I'm not trying to make it sound bad, but this is a pretty traditional way to present the leveling experience in my opinion and if someone likes progressing this way, it's there for them. You can do other things like look at the map and head to the closest fate and complete those for a few hours instead. You can accept a few leves a day to help break up the questing (but really those are just quests). You can group up and do content together including hests and dungeons (or whatever you call them). And there is nothing wrong with those fundamentals. But those are the fundamentals of leveling progression for this game.