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PvP games - The past, present and future.

CallsignVegaCallsignVega Member UncommonPosts: 288
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM

These are games I've actually played more than a month and/or didn't solely beta test:

 

Everquest 1 - It's plethora of PvE options and raids, dungeons and zero instancing made for quite a platform for PvP. Having zero instancing and zero safe zones you could literally be attacked anywhere at anytime, something that even escapes DFUW. One of the first games with risk vs reward, 1 item loot and corpse runs. 

 

Dark Age of Camelot - Seamless world, an incredible amount of races and classes set in a "new" 3-way type game world with rich story and actual things to fight over in PvP. This game was so good that they are making a new one based around the same concepts called "Camelot Unchained". Kickstarted. 

 

Darkfall Unholy Wars - Generally open world PvP, no instances, full loot, actual risk vs reward. Extremely light on content and PvP revolves around "statting" one another out.  

 

Shadowbane - Seamless world, first game to really support massive battles and sieges and build actual cities. Siege crash bugs not unlike holy wars dropped population fairly fast.

 

EvE - Played this for many many years. It is a stalwart of a game that continually improves. Risk vs reward is a bit high if you like flying expensive ships. This sometime leads to finding good fights difficult and/or usually leads to zerging opponents down. Generally a rewarding game that has been plagued in the past by lag and does have almost completely "safe" zones. My #1 complaint is the local channel that makes it virtually impossible to "sneak" up on other players. Game would be a thousand times better without it.

 

Age of Conan: Wonderful world and art, skill based PvP with actual gore and blood (why can't more games do that?). Poor launch and company like AV, low population and instancing / small zones.  

 

World of Warcraft - Played for a few months. Trivial PvP / instancing / battlegrounds.

 

Guild Wars 2 - Trivial PvP / instancing / battlegrounds

 

 

 

Future PvP Games that are looking good:

Camelot Unchained

 

Future PvP games that are looking bad (Battleground / instanced based "light PvP)"

Elder Scrolls Online

 

Up in the air:

Everquest Next (Smedly says there will be some sort of open world PvP)

 

Darkfall Unholy Wars and EvE being the only two PvP games worth playing as of summer 2013. What are your thoughts on this list and or other games? Any future PvP games that are on your radar, and why?

Comments

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by CallsignVega

    Darkfall Unholy Wars and EvE being the only two PvP games worth playing as of summer 2013. What are your thoughts on this list and or other games? Any future PvP games that are on your radar, and why?

    Can't say I disagree with anything on the list. 

    If anyone is looking to get into PVP in EVE, there is a TON brewing across New Eden right now. http://evenews24.com/ and http://themittani.com/ have a lot of coverage on the latest big battles. 

    It's hard to gauge where DFUW is, since posts both positive and negative go to such extremes that it's hard to tell what the real state of that game is. That aside, flamethrowers on hover tanks and siege ballistas on sailing ships are just too cool to NOT give DFUW a try. :)

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • CallsignVegaCallsignVega Member UncommonPosts: 288
    Yes, wormholes do have no local but they aren't very populated and are just a small part of the game. 
  • illmaculateillmaculate Member UncommonPosts: 11

    Have you tried Age of Wushu?

    I'm an old darkfaller and currently playing DFUW with friends but would be interested to hear peoples' opinions on how Wushu stacks up to it.

  • AbsolemAbsolem Member Posts: 19
    Age of Wushu is pretty awesome, but if you are gonna play, I recommend waiting for Age of Wulin by gPotato.  The SnailUSA servers are awful, and nobody in my guild could break 250ms at any time.  During primetime it's at a steady 400ms.  Just not acceptable.
     
    Besides the problems with the service, though, it's a pretty damn good game, as far as the PvP goes.  You aren't required to farm mobs over and over to get competitive like Darkfall, and you can build an end-game competitive character in less than a month.  It's a very skill-based game, where time played doesn't translate into winning fights.  It's all about active blocking, breaking people's blocks, opening an opportunity with knockdowns or other CC and capitalizing on it with a combo.  A fight between two characters can have completely different results depending on how well they play.  Unfortunately the massive lag on the Age of Wushu servers makes it incredibly frustrating, so I'm excited to see how Age of Wulin plays.  Better localization, too.
     
    It's open PvP, with an infamy system to protect people from just slaughtering everyone.  Once a person has infamy, a bounty can be declared on them, and player constables will be paid to hunt them down and throw them in jail.  Once a high enough infamy level is reached, they can be executed, giving them a big debuff for 24hrs.  Beyond that, most of what you do in-game is PvP.  Spy missions are good for your advancement and are pretty fun.  You run around enemy schools collecting information from offline players who stay in the world as NPCs.  While doing this, you gotta avoid NPC patrols, as well as players who are actively patrolling the school.  Once you are discovered, you can openly attack one another.  Leads to some really fun gameplay.  Sometimes it's boring, sometimes it's fun... that's kinda par for the course on sandboxes. :P
     
    There's also Escort Missions, where your guild can be hired to escort a caravan to a location while enemy players try to raid your cargo.  Some fun guild vs guild there.  There's School Wars, large-scale PvP with objectives.  There's script stealing where you go into a school and try to get your hands on scripts that will teach you the attacks of another school, either by killing another person trying to steal the script, or stealing it from their library and trying to get out of the zone while defenders try to chase you down.  There's guild wars, which let's guilds attack one another for their holding, non-instanced guild housing areas, with only a limited number available to claim.
     
    Even the instances have PvP.  When you start certain bosses, players will enter with them, and the party must fight both the boss and the enemy players at the same time.  Pretty fun.  There's probably a couple other modes I forgot about, but it's a very interesting game with awesome combat, an intricate economy, and unfortunately, really bad lag.  Here's hoping for Age of Wulin.
  • free2playfree2play Member UncommonPosts: 2,043

    Anyone who gets caught up in a passive, aggressive competition in the race to end game, the race to the best gear, the race to the best build is involved in PvP in a sense. Every time you sell player made gear on a market that other players were trying to sell, you are involved in PvP. (See EVE and a prime example)

    PvP is going to be less in your face in the future I think. Making it less about who can do marathon log in sessions. It's a better system.

  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230

    Its not really PvP if the other side doesn't want to fight. Similarly if the other guy is not fighting back, it is an assault. When sex is unconsensual it is called rape.

    You want to "gank" people. PK - not PvP.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 Member UncommonPosts: 511
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Its not really PvP if the other side doesn't want to fight. Similarly if the other guy is not fighting back, it is an assault. When sex is unconsensual it is called rape.

    You want to "gank" people. PK - not PvP.

    In the real world there is not artificial invulnerabilities againts attacks from others. You need to protect yourself and avoid dangers, handle social interactions, be diplomatic/politic and so on. These games are made for people that wants that kind of realism in a world simulator that portrays a ancient era where there weren't laws and social stability like today (medieval ages being the most common).

     

     



  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,614
    Originally posted by CallsignVega
    Yes, wormholes do have no local but they aren't very populated and are just a small part of the game. 

    thing with Wormholes in EVE (for me) is that there's no 'unknown' anymore, everything has been figured out, statics, mass limits etc. You can pretty much calculate how many ships can go through when the entrance collapses and when the next exit opens. too many static information.

    Would like a lot more random in the mechanic.

    Plus everything has been done already, CCP should connect Singulairy to the Chinese server through wormholes already lolololol.

     

    Or also fun, new regions (mapped like 0.0) only accessible to the current HS/LS/0.0 through wormholes.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • GroovyFlowerGroovyFlower Member Posts: 1,245

    One of best still for me was Asheron's call-Darktide and AC2-Darktide still had my best years there.

    Played lineage2 open pvp limited drop when killed city's safezones light free for all pvp.

    AC1-2-Darktide pvp server free for all.

    Darkfall- free for all full loot also played for 2.5 first year was best.

    Arma2-DayZ mod free for all full loot PERMADEATH zombie survival its even after patch 1.7.7 harder then ever to survive. I play the hardcore pure survival servers start with no bagpack and only 2 bandage thats all.

    DayZ standalone with be huge persistend seamingless world with 200 players free for all full loot PERMADEATH realy realy looking forward to this game.

     

  • Quazal.AQuazal.A Member UncommonPosts: 859

    Gotta agree with most of the OP

     

    Age of Wushu like someone said has the making of being one of the best character PvP but for the wretched lag, your coutnry of origin has more bearing on outcome than the character or moves, sort this out - and i think they will - and you might end up with a classic

    EvE - Well my history with eve is getting well trodden on this forum, but the only issue i have is why peopel complain about getting ganked/unfair fight etc. Get over it, I have never known a war/fight in history where Force A check thats Force B has similar numbers before fighting...

    Rest of games can't really say they would have anthing i would consider pvp - NB this is only games i have played. AoC never tried it so cannot comment

    LOTRO pvp is no no no

    This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
    Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  • nakkinakki Member Posts: 56

    All the mmorpgs with fun pvp that I've played had one thing in common. The areas where pvp activities took place attracted players who were there solely for pve or for both pve and pvp. Mixing those two together is almost essential in my opinion.

    Maybe archeage could do this but i'm not holding my breath.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Its not really PvP if the other side doesn't want to fight. Similarly if the other guy is not fighting back, it is an assault. When sex is unconsensual it is called rape.

    You want to "gank" people. PK - not PvP.

    In the real world there is not artificial invulnerabilities againts attacks from others. You need to protect yourself and avoid dangers, handle social interactions, be diplomatic/politic and so on. These games are made for people that wants that kind of realism in a world simulator that portrays a ancient era where there weren't laws and social stability like today (medieval ages being the most common).

     

     

    We are playing games, not real world. None of the games quoted are "realistic" in any sense. There is no ancient martial arts super power in ancient china like those in Age of Wushu.

    Personally i much rather have e-sports type arena and battleground. Much more balance. Much more fun.

     

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529
    I'd say league of legend for me. Best pvp game yet.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    Your preference will tend to be driven largely by whether you want casual PVP (fights revolving around non-skill or skill-lite elements) or serious PVP (fights are won purely by player skill.)

    Certainly there's a market for Casual PVP (see: all MMORPG PVP) but it tends to be a bit smaller than games like MOBAs, RTS, FPS, Fighting games, and the other purely skill-focused genres.

    The reason is that winning a fight for shallow reasons tends not to be enough for a serious gamer.  If I bring 10 people to a fight and win because you only brought 5, that doesn't make for an interesting fight and hasn't really tested any true skill.  If I hit max level and max out my gear and then torture some lowbies, that doesn't make for interesting fights either for the same reason.

    But when the teams are even, and winning rests solely on whether you make the right choices during the match, and those choices are balanced and interesting, then you have the potential for a deep PVP game which can remain interesting for a very long time.

    In that light, I would love to see a game with the following traits:

    • MMORPG style combat.
    • True lateral advancement.  Like Planetside 1, where a day 1 player who plays skillfully can defeat a 1+ year veteran if he makes the right decisions during battle.  The new player might not have the full set of tactical options, but with the options they do have they're 100% viable.
    • Controlled pop limits.  Battles would happen over large maps, like Guild Wars 2, but unlike GW2 and PS2 it would be more like Planetside 1 where the pop limit was "relatively small" at 200 players per faction, but because the game's population was well over 1000 per faction, you had a very good chance of making it into a completely pop-locked fight (meaning a fair, even, skill-rewarding 200v200 or 200v200v200 fight.)

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

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