People tend to get unrealistic when hearing the hype from companies, even after seeing the difference between what has been said and what is presented time and time again.
Let's look at this a couple of ways:
First let's look at an MMO world where any player by themselves can transform any area of the world. Now let's use the example that is presented, being able to burn down an area. In total freedom you'd get a bunch of pyromaniacs who would burn the whole world to the ground and completely ruin the server for all play to the point that it would need a reset.
So that amount of freedom is clearly not going to be allowed.
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That's assuming people can only destroy things. If you counter-balance that with the ability to create stuff, people will keep creating new content to replace what gets erased.
Let's say people set out to troll and grief (like they do in every single game already if there are ways to do so). So they log in and constantly destroy areas. Sure some people will stop their gameplay to rebuild those areas, but if it just keeps getting destroyed over and over most people will just give up on rebuilding it as a waste of time.
People tend to severely underestimate the lengths others will go to in order to ruin a game. However, you need to look deeply into all that when designing systems where players can have an impact on other players. I also went with destroy things as it seemed like they already confirmed people would be able to destroy some things.
If you look into it deeply the only possibility is that this "effecting the world" aspect will likely be quite limited and not the minecraft esq style people are hoping for and already hyping themselves for.
To me it sounds like a advanced form of dynamic events you get in GW2. After pulling all the triggers, say killing a world or area boss the preprogrammed event happens.
If you look into it deeply the only possibility is that this "effecting the world" aspect will likely be quite limited and not the minecraft esq style people are hoping for and already hyping themselves for.
Easy enough to test Smed's commitment to emergent gameplay; on the very first day, in full view of the newbie starting zone, begin construction of a gigantic billboard that just says "Blizzard".
If he doesn't tear that one down, feel free to tap the Coke people for product placement endorsement cash, or maybe a nice X-Box ad.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
I just can't wait for people to all be yelling in chat "Where do I go for this quest! HALP!". I read somewhere that there is no quest directives via golden trails or roads... You will actually have to read quests again to know where to go.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
Originally posted by Betaguy I just can't wait for people to all be yelling in chat "Where do I go for this quest! HALP!". I read somewhere that there is no quest directives via golden trails or roads... You will actually have to read quests again to know where to go.
I don't mind this so long as we get a jornel or something with details cause if im playng late at night and I log nd come back the next day, I am NOT going to rember the details of a quest I was in the middle of last night, especially which generic hill, the whatever colorered flower grows that I need to collect to finish said quest.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Originally posted by Jalitan I think of Neverwinter's Foundry tool when I imagine what it means. We will be able to develop content in instances where anything can happen. I don't think it truly means the main game world we play in everyday can be dramatically changed all the time.
instead of say a zone being dessert all the time it changes with the season snow floods and such fires, asteroid craters which i hope would be rare events set randomly
or say someone sets up a factory or dumps some crap in a river stuff might die or mutate
say your running from a giant and go into a building well that giant has to rip the top off if he can to get at you.( i remeber A DEV SAYING they wanted to do that)
now i imagine small stuff like lines on the ground will disapear but bigstuff no i dont really want to travel through the overthere and see a giant sand penis or a ftmfl obama comment etched into the sand in huge letters
i imagine that we will be able to graffiti the cities but npcs will clean up after a bit
Originally posted by Betaguy I just can't wait for people to all be yelling in chat "Where do I go for this quest! HALP!". I read somewhere that there is no quest directives via golden trails or roads... You will actually have to read quests again to know where to go.
I don't mind this so long as we get a jornel or something with details cause if im playng late at night and I log nd come back the next day, I am NOT going to rember the details of a quest I was in the middle of last night, especially which generic hill, the whatever colorered flower grows that I need to collect to finish said quest.
If there are quests they will be player made through Story Bricks. Players can create NPC's and make quests anywhere in the world using Story Bricks.
People tend to get unrealistic when hearing the hype from companies, even after seeing the difference between what has been said and what is presented time and time again.
Let's look at this a couple of ways:
First let's look at an MMO world where any player by themselves can transform any area of the world. Now let's use the example that is presented, being able to burn down an area. In total freedom you'd get a bunch of pyromaniacs who would burn the whole world to the ground and completely ruin the server for all play to the point that it would need a reset.
So that amount of freedom is clearly not going to be allowed.
Now they could solve this in a couple of ways. One: is make it so that enough people have to agree on an action to make it happen. This has 2 effects. First is that people no longer feel like they have the freedom of choice because they need a whole clan to get things to change in the world. Second is that huge clans would essentially own the server and be able to ruin things vindictively.
So that is likely not an option.
Lastly they can restrain this freedom to specific areas. This means you can't really change the world, but instead you can change predefined states in predefined areas which could likely be swapped back by other people or reset over certain spans of time so someone else could go do the same thing.
In the end you aren't going to end up with this MMO being a place where players can individually and fundamentally change the entire game world.
I just think it is important for potential player to look at things critically. Every game uses some exciting words and big claims to make their game sound amazing. Sometimes they even intend to launch with those things. But in the those big game changers tend to either be PR spin or determined to be not feasible in an MMO due to resources/complexity/both. How many MMOs said that players could change the world or that a game is truly innovative to have those not be so?
Maybe they did come up with a system that has a good deal of freedom and a changing environment driven by the players. Or maybe they have a very minimal impact system that doesn't do all that much in reality and just looks flashy at first. I would wait and see before getting too excited over something that may not be.
Isnt there more options in your scenario, such as one where people who burn down some property that does not belong to them become criminals and can be attacked and killed by anyone without them becoming PKs / criminals?
With a severe exp loss and possibly some other death penalties, it may be a working regulatory instrument.
It would be quite a realistic option also. In the real world, I can also decide to burn down the whole city...I can buy gas and lighter and just go for it. It would not be artificial tools, such as those you described that will prevent me from finishing my job. Other people / RL players would...guards / police can be established and I imagine it could be a fun profession too.
Not saying this game will necessarily be the holy grail of innovation, but I think this can be done in other ways than those you described.
No offense, just wanted to share my thoughts on this.
I agree with coretex666 as far is the cause and effect are concerned. In this forest burning scenerio I see lots of available options the one I like the most is said pyro comes to burn said forest down but little does he know that there is said rangers and said druids that protect said forest.etc etc etc. I like this because at the end of the day conflict makes things interesting, and there is all kinds of conflict to be had. A burnt forest gives druids something to do. This can be applied to almost any situation. Fighters, mages, and crafters all kept busy by a little conflict.
Originally posted by Jalitan I think of Neverwinter's Foundry tool when I imagine what it means. We will be able to develop content in instances where anything can happen. I don't think it truly means the main game world we play in everyday can be dramatically changed all the time.
It is open world like Planetside 2 not instanced.
that doesnt mean there wont be ANY instances... im sure there will be fore the love of marr if i have to get up at 2 am to raid vox i will shoot someone in the face with a fireball and that preety much requires instances. unless stuff is instant spawn and ona fight cooldown which sounds lame, and i dont want to wait for others to finish
now i imagine small stuff like lines on the ground will disapear but bigstuff no i dont really want to travel through the overthere and see a giant sand penis or a ftmfl obama comment etched into the sand in huge letters
i imagine that we will be able to graffiti the cities but npcs will clean up after a bit
I dunno, penis architecture has been popular throughout the ages.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 Eh, 'dynamic' is the flavor of the month. Developers spew this crap out all the time to hype up potential customers. Nothing's worse than Guild War 2's 'living story' bullcrap. Arena Net is simply saying, "here's your content but you have 1 month to play all of it before we delete the content from the server." Remember the world is "ALIVE!"
Yup... thats why my wife and I stopped playing GW2. 1st chapter of the living story is all done but talking to the last guy to get the reward and no way to finish it, just not interested.
Originally posted by rommello lol players change the environment....player choice matters....this is gw2 all over again
This is very different. Its like Neverwinters foundry but my bet is it will put the foundry to shame. Maybe it wont but my guess is this will be a lot more depth. From what we have gotten so far it could work like this... So say you make a quest where you go break someone out of jail. In something like Neverwinter you just click open the door and your friend is free. In EQN you could blow up a wall to get in his cell. Or uses horses to pull the cell door out of the wall. Sounds a lot more fun then just clicking open a cell door. Everything in the game will be able to be manipulated like this. Book selves, doors, potted plants and so on. Can you think of how much more fun quest could be if you could really see happen as the quest text says? I cant count how many times I have read something like "You kick open the door" and all it does in game is swing open. Yawn.
Isnt there more options in your scenario, such as one where people who burn down some property that does not belong to them become criminals and can be attacked and killed by anyone without them becoming PKs / criminals?
With a severe exp loss and possibly some other death penalties, it may be a working regulatory instrument.
But now haven't you started to move drastically away from do anything anywhere?
My advice to players who want extensive freedom is to assess what they want and what the game offers not by what they themselves might be able to do, but what others may be able to do to them. I think a lot of people forget that side of it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
Let's say people set out to troll and grief (like they do in every single game already if there are ways to do so). So they log in and constantly destroy areas. Sure some people will stop their gameplay to rebuild those areas, but if it just keeps getting destroyed over and over most people will just give up on rebuilding it as a waste of time.
People tend to severely underestimate the lengths others will go to in order to ruin a game. However, you need to look deeply into all that when designing systems where players can have an impact on other players. I also went with destroy things as it seemed like they already confirmed people would be able to destroy some things.
If you look into it deeply the only possibility is that this "effecting the world" aspect will likely be quite limited and not the minecraft esq style people are hoping for and already hyping themselves for.
Easy enough to test Smed's commitment to emergent gameplay; on the very first day, in full view of the newbie starting zone, begin construction of a gigantic billboard that just says "Blizzard".
If he doesn't tear that one down, feel free to tap the Coke people for product placement endorsement cash, or maybe a nice X-Box ad.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
he means pay lots of cash to build things. $.$
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
I don't mind this so long as we get a jornel or something with details cause if im playng late at night and I log nd come back the next day, I am NOT going to rember the details of a quest I was in the middle of last night, especially which generic hill, the whatever colorered flower grows that I need to collect to finish said quest.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
come on... pretty please with cherry on top?
:-)
I must be able to place a tulip on top of a dragon's head. I want to change the environment!
It is open world like Planetside 2 not instanced.
instead of say a zone being dessert all the time it changes with the season snow floods and such fires, asteroid craters which i hope would be rare events set randomly
or say someone sets up a factory or dumps some crap in a river stuff might die or mutate
say your running from a giant and go into a building well that giant has to rip the top off if he can to get at you.( i remeber A DEV SAYING they wanted to do that)
now i imagine small stuff like lines on the ground will disapear but bigstuff no i dont really want to travel through the overthere and see a giant sand penis or a ftmfl obama comment etched into the sand in huge letters
i imagine that we will be able to graffiti the cities but npcs will clean up after a bit
If there are quests they will be player made through Story Bricks. Players can create NPC's and make quests anywhere in the world using Story Bricks.
I agree with coretex666 as far is the cause and effect are concerned. In this forest burning scenerio I see lots of available options the one I like the most is said pyro comes to burn said forest down but little does he know that there is said rangers and said druids that protect said forest.etc etc etc. I like this because at the end of the day conflict makes things interesting, and there is all kinds of conflict to be had. A burnt forest gives druids something to do. This can be applied to almost any situation. Fighters, mages, and crafters all kept busy by a little conflict.
that doesnt mean there wont be ANY instances... im sure there will be fore the love of marr if i have to get up at 2 am to raid vox i will shoot someone in the face with a fireball and that preety much requires instances. unless stuff is instant spawn and ona fight cooldown which sounds lame, and i dont want to wait for others to finish
I dunno, penis architecture has been popular throughout the ages.
https://www.google.com/search?q=phallic+symbol+monuments&rlz=1C1CHMO_enUS531US531&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=QJW_Ub_bE8mRrQHL9oH4Cg&ved=0CGAQsAQ&biw=1091&bih=874
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
hallo ~_~
Yup... thats why my wife and I stopped playing GW2. 1st chapter of the living story is all done but talking to the last guy to get the reward and no way to finish it, just not interested.
nice selective memory you get there
I know you really dont mean stuff like this
http://samanna.net/2pix/pop3.png
But SWG was certainly complicated
This is very different. Its like Neverwinters foundry but my bet is it will put the foundry to shame. Maybe it wont but my guess is this will be a lot more depth. From what we have gotten so far it could work like this... So say you make a quest where you go break someone out of jail. In something like Neverwinter you just click open the door and your friend is free. In EQN you could blow up a wall to get in his cell. Or uses horses to pull the cell door out of the wall. Sounds a lot more fun then just clicking open a cell door. Everything in the game will be able to be manipulated like this. Book selves, doors, potted plants and so on. Can you think of how much more fun quest could be if you could really see happen as the quest text says? I cant count how many times I have read something like "You kick open the door" and all it does in game is swing open. Yawn.
But now haven't you started to move drastically away from do anything anywhere?
My advice to players who want extensive freedom is to assess what they want and what the game offers not by what they themselves might be able to do, but what others may be able to do to them. I think a lot of people forget that side of it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre