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Why did Neverwinter get a Pass?
Reehay
Member Posts: 172
Why did Neverwinter get a pass - On being the most linear, hub to hub, tug-a-long, faceroll, shallow themepark; when games like TERA get trashed for it? Small zones, follow the rails (paths) to the next hub, cut and paste dungeons, boss AI so predictable that my son's hamster could beat them... zero exploration value.. etc
I just got to max level, and while I noticed this obvious shallow linear experience very early, I felt compelled to at least get to max level before I made any reviews.
And how is this whack-a-mole game even remotely similar to Dungeon and Dragons? Its clearly more Diablo2 than anything D&D. Faceroll slaughtering AE groups of mobs and having loot spew out like loot pinatas and then scrambling to scoop up shinies on the ground? So did the developers just decide they needed to do the minimum to claim the powerful cloak of D&D? I think Gary Gygax would be ashamed - more likely, simply amused - to have his creation associated with this mess.
The Foundry has some good content, its the sole reason I enter the game each night (that and my 11 yr son plays - yes, his tastes in MMO are much less refined as mine).
I have my own theories on why Neverwinter gets a pass on this... but what are yours?
Comments
Because it didn't need one. It was what it was and it was pretty close to what people expected it to be.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I applaud you for even acknowledging that there is a story at all. I actually accepted so many Foundry quests now that I forget what my damn story quests even are, lol.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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You put the answer there yourself, Foundry.
But I like to goofing around with the professions as well, a bit similar to STO's DOff system, just much simplier and blander (though with the live launch there's Alchemy now as a new one)
This is going to sound bad, but I just don't think enough people care about Neverwinter to throw a fit over it.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Hehehe. I know what you're saying, OP.
Funny part is, as much as I agree with you, (and believe me, I agree 100% on all points) I still think the game gets a PASS.
Why? Because it didn't say it was going to be anything else than what it is, and what it does it does extremely well.
It's a D&D 4.0 ruleset digital experience. People don't play D&D to walk around and explore the country side.... or to collect epic mounts... or to raid.... or even to /dance. They play it to run dungeons/scenarios/modules with their friends.
That's in Neverwinter. The crappy 4.0 combat rules. Done in a way that feels EXCELLENT.
Running dungeons/scenarios with friends.
Foundry system for players to create their own content. (Most of it sucks, but that's the fault of the players making them)
It's FREE. (which counts to some as a reason to not bitch too much about what it lacks or does wrong)
It just generally works. A lot better than most of the other jokes that call themselves "MMO" and don't work on launch day.
Neverwinter for sure has faults, and even some game breaking faults (like the zen cheating and other exploits) but I guess as it's really enjoyable to just PLAY the game, and being allowed to do so without paying for it, the players don't seem to bitch as much.
Plus, as it's not really a threat to any other games/titles, people probably don't feel as much of a need to speak out about it, protecting their own game, or attacking the opposition. People are clique-ish by nature. There's just no defining anti-Neverwinter clique to rile things up.
That's how I saw it as well.
Yeah, I don't think people care enough about the game to even write a hate post about it. I was a bit suprised to see as much love as I saw around here..but it was really short lived.
Most of the praise I saw for it was about the combat, not necessarily about the hub to hub linear brain dead design.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
This ^
Why do games now need a 'pass' for not trying to be the next messiah of the genre. Neverwinter has plenty of problems, but that doesn't stop it from being an enjoyable game for a lot of people. I'm pretty much done with the game, but I still have quite a few friends that are enjoying it. Just don't expect it to be the MMO that will hold you over all the other MMOs ever.
Pretty much this. I guess my response was a bit long winded, but, still.... Overall I think it comes down to the combat being so enjoyable that it overshadowed the negative aspects. Esp. considering the negative aspects were all expected, and also traits shared with other more successful games. So, not worth the energy or thought to bring it up, but instead, talk about how GOOD the GOOD part of the game is.
I wouldn't complain about this. It's refreshing that a game does something so well that the general talk about the game isn't about what was done wrong.
I'm guilty of talking about what's wrong with games a lot. A LOT. So, even someone like me who over analyzes got a lot of enjoyment out of Neverwinter. I stopped playing about a month or 2 ago, and never reached cap ( i don't rush through MMOS ) -- but i had fun. Just got bored of the same old same old, that's all. Hard for me to put time and emotional investment in "level up, get better gear, craft something, do it again with a tank/dps/healer toon" anymore when I've done it so much over the years in what seems to be a neverending stream of Fantasy stories.
Yeah I'm with you there. Only problem is that these conventions seem to have become law. I'm so bored of gear grinding trinity games, yet all of my friends are on the teat when it comes to tab target timer healing and treadmills.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
To put it succinctly, it's Cryptic. It's what they do , it's what people expect from them. No one holds them to a high standard.
They don't care now, but when the game went live, "open beta" if that is what they pretended it was, they did care.
As always, tons of people trashed the new game and tons of people defended it. I think that either the number of people hyped for this stinker was lower then the norm or people tried it and left so fast, by the time the official launch occured (today?) it didn't matter to the masses anymore and only the extremely intelligent that spent $200 are the main ones sticking it out.
A crap game was made by guess what? A crap developer with a crap publisher....
The combat and the foundry xp exploit were the only reason I even played for almost a week.
This is how I feel.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
There you have it folks, a game that was was able to deliver what it promised due to it not promising to reinvent the wheel. How many MMOs, or just video games in general can you recall in recent memory that actually did this, that didn't give grandiose promises and fail to live up to them due to the promises being unrealistic and/or ego-stroking?
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Given the lack of +1 feature on this site I'll just leave this here:
+1
Alas, the end-game is where NW fails to shine. Almost any end-game 5-man dungeon and boss fight is based on an absurd number of adds, thus putting a disproportionate emphasis on CC and kiting. As a result, the Guardian Fighter (tank), Trickster Rogue (single target DPS) and Great Weapon Fighter (melee aoe DPS) appear superfluous, while the Control Wizard (CC dps) is absolutely mandatory as is the Devoted Cleric (Healer), the latter being more understandable. This fundamental unbalance in design pidgeon-holes most classes into specific builds, which is quite unnerving as respecs are of course, this is a F2P costly, be it in time or real money. There is absolutely nothing rewarding to do on your own once you hit max level. The foundry (user-generated quest campaigns) are a great addition during levelling as they grant a very decent amount of xp, but they're limited to very basic loot tables which become worthless in regard to other activities. As in most MMOs, PvP and it's classic battleground sysem is a CC mess, only bearable during the (short) time required to get the full PvP set. Which could be at least somewhat useful except that due to very poor loot distribution mechanisms, the in-game auction house is flooded with cheap epic gear. From there, the time required to get the marginally better BoS items increases exponentially and hardly feels worth the effort (especially if you do not benefit from a stable guild). Finally, the EVE-inspired time-based crafting system is efficient and even fun, until you realise the absurd amount of time required to max a profession out, especially as the intermediate rewards are close to totally worthless. However, these flaws are relatively superficial and could easily be adressed by moderate tweaking thus my opinion on NW remains positive. The game has a solid foundation, a fun combat system and a casual-friendly approach. In its current state, and while it failed to suck me in on a long term basis, it was and remains very worth a shot
I would say its because that is what they said it was gonna be. Neverwinter was always billed as a sort of hybrid of NWN + some MMO features.
Its meant to be very instance based just like NWN and one of the reasons for this is the Foundry.
Think about it: A DM could long into NWO make 20 foundrt missions and have some friends exclusively run those as a campaign and make their own mini online private game that he ran with his friends as a player as well.
Basically there is the "official" campaign and then there is the player crafted campaign. You can call it an MMO but it not meant to be the traditional EQ MMO. Its meant to be be more like NWN servers in many ways.
Really NWO would far more damaged by making some standard 4th edition class be completely represented wrong than by having linear content in the "official campaign". You know like making bow rangers into tanks or something.