1) Where is the Hook? 2) What am I missing out on? 3)Should I continue leveling my lancer to level 20?
Perhaps Lancer is not for me, perhaps FFXIV is not for me Idk ._.
Yeah, definitely continue to 20. And read the story line! It gets really good. I've gotten to play up to 22 in the story line and honestly I don't think there wasn't a moment doing a quest that I wasn't engaged in. And at level 15 you get the quest lines to do Satasha, TTC, and CM. All really great dungeons, if not a little short--most likely cause their for newbies. You can't treat this game like another run-of-the-mill mmo. The team has put a lot of work into almost every story line trying to make them really engaging--I would say this story beats GW2 and SWToR by leagues. The fact that it's mostly constant is nice too. The game really opens up as you level, more and more features unlock.
I like how long the GCD is though, it also makes it easier on the controllers and ps3 users, since they have a lot of skills they have to quickly shuffle through using tabs and buttons, any shorter will put them at even more of a disadvantage. There's a lot of skills they have to use in combat and the GCD gives them that time to cycle through and find them.
agree to disagree, some like it, some don't, that's just how it will always be with every game.
Combats perfectly fine to me. I mean i played ffxi forever and that games not exactly the most fast paced game in the world.
But based off classes pgl i liked the most out of the dps classes mine is 22. Forms and such to do certain skills, good defensive stuff for solo etc.
Cnj most boring class i've played in the beta, can't really ask much from a healer at low levels, but man just using cure and medica boring as crap lol, i've only done one dungeon with the conjurer tho so can't say mor ethen that.
Gladitaor, I've never been much of the tanking type person but wanted to try, and man defintley had to keep a rotation up to keep all the mobs on me, and have to worry about mp and tp instead of one of the another, fun and challenging to me.
I only did a test of the rest of the classes at 15. Thm is just basically spam of whatever skill, be it fire or ice and you get aoe, they'll get more exciting in the future for sure. Archer was actually pretty fun to solo with get to pin down mobs while running around etc.
Lancer just different rotation on skills, and they do more dammage from behind which i haven't been able to test yet. And lastly Marauder, It's intersting that their tanks, I need to try these dudes but most of their skills seem like attack skills to me, but their pretty defensive at same time.
Anyhow thats my opinion, just try to put more effort into the game, could end up being more fun to you. (Side note like the Ifrit fight that ho, will make you move around alot so its not like you get to sit their and spam skills, and it seems like theirs alot of aoe circles so the gcd seems fine for low level as it is)
If you play this like WoW at later levels you're dead. Judge the game's combat at level 15 on since Yoshi keeps telling people prior to this is the tutorial phase of the game.
It will be interesting in seeing you kiddies playing an old school strategy fighting mmorpg. managing resources, positioning, managing agro, crowd controlling its all there. Play the game like WoW if you want to. I suggest using this time to practice your fighting style with the class you picked so you are great at it later on instead of being caught off guard. I also jump out of AOE telegraphs making use of the jump buttion.
It will also be interesting in seeing the old Crowd Controller crowd showing em how its done.
When have players become so unoriginal and non innovative? I'm an old school SF2 tourney player. So I make up stuff as I move along.
I'm telling you right now. My pugilist is the fastest thing on the ground because of the way I fight. I know better than to not stand in one place and I"m constantly practicing positioning and dodging around enemies to get the highest dps bonuses.
Want a more active fighting style? Go lancer or pugilist and start practicing moving around and hitting from the side or rear, Also start practicing your combos.
I honestly feel bad for the console controller users. A PC fighter who is mobile is going to mop the floor with you in battles.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
It doesn't change, the combat is the combat, but it does get faster and more involved, with a lots of different skills and positioning and re-actionary skills and cross-class abilities.
Personally, I really enjoy the combat and do not think it is dull or boring. In fact, I was playing my lv 50 Dragoon yesterday, exploring and killing lv 45-48 Ixali in the North Shroud, and even a few levels below me I kind of had to stay on my game, and watch what I was doing every CD. Do I heal? Is he doing a weaponskill, should I move out of the way or stun him? Are my Jump abilities off CD?
I tanked Sastasha and Tam-tara Deepcroft on my Gladiator last night, and that was an absolute blast. Having to balance using Flash to grab mobs, then the combo to either increase enmity and do dmg, or to regain my MP from using Flash.
I don't know, it isn't boring or dull to me. /shrug
I dunno, I guess I can see why other people wouldn't like the combat, but to me it's the same MMO combat I've grown to love, only refined and made better. IMHO.
@ OP - Yes, the combat is terrible. I wanted to like the game so bad since I'm an old-school FF fanboy, but I just can't. The combat is so bad that it ruins the rest of the game for me. I hate fetch quests enough already but was willing to look past it - but the act of grinding them with this terrible combat system is not going to happen. It's sad but true.
I would even go as far to say that WoW's combat is more fun.
Serious death penalties makes every close call an adrenaline rush, and every minor achievement a major victory. This alternative rule-set should be in all MMORPGs.
@ OP - Yes, the combat is terrible. I wanted to like the game so bad since I'm an old-school FF fanboy, but I just can't. The combat is so bad that it ruins the rest of the game for me. I hate fetch quests enough already but was willing to look past it - but the act of grinding them with this terrible combat system is not going to happen. It's sad but true.
I would even go as far to say that WoW's combat is way more fun.
Even though the combat and questing are nothing new, at all, there is something intangibly fun about ARR I can't quite put a finger on.
The characters, the world, the stories, the dialog.. I actually read the quest text, the cut scenes and mini boss battles... the animations and just feel to everything... when you hit with an ability it is just flashy enough to be "impactful" and really feel like it has weight. The sound design is incredible.
Everything just feels right, moves right, plays right, looks amazing...
Doesn't reinvent the wheel, but man it is a nice wheel.
In a world of clones, unorignal game design, poor production quality, or just a complete lack of addictive gameplay, FFXIV somehow manages to weave together juuuuuusssttt the right mix to deliver a unique and interesting game I can't wait to spend countless hours in.
I know many will not be able to look past the slower paced combat and kill/collect/fedex questing.
I understand some are just completely tired of it.
But the main story has thus far been worth the price of admission alone.
Throw in housing and grand companies and everything else I haven't seen yet, Guild leves and dungeons and raids are worth the price of subscription to me.
I think lots of people are so hell bent on "something new" and "something different" that they've forgotten what makes these games great. What makes these games worth subbing to.
To me, it's adventure. It's the feeling of awe and wonder and that push to keep going and see what is next, to hit that next milestone.
FFXIV:ARR has soul. It's classic, it's a bit old school, yet it's polished - refined. It's an evolution of the archetype, a step in the logical sequence.
I just need to find a good guild to pal around with. This is the kind of MMO experience best shared with others.
Originally posted by Fendel84M While I enjoy the action combat in MMOs lately. It is refreshing to go back to something slower with more of a strategic rather than twitch combat.
I feel the same way. I like the combat of GW2 and even some twitch based mmorpgs, but I also truly love the combat of old EQ1 and FFXI. I'm not a fan of quests, but as long as grinding a camp of mobs with friends is viable then I am good to go. So far, playing XIV 2.0, I really love what I see and can't wait until the next beta opens.
Originally posted by Lukavk Game is barely starting at 15. I had a buddy groaning about it being boring until we hit the dungeons then he was completely hooked. Though, honestly, it could just be this game isn't for you. I'd continue to the Ifrit fight and make my decision there at the least.
Levels 1-15 are essentially New Player/Tutorial levels. The game is deliberately designed to be more basic, more straight forward and uncomplicated so people new to MMORPGs can learn the basics and ease into the game.
The problem is how people who've played other MMOs tend to come in expecting it to play from day 1 like the higher level content in the last game they enjoyed - as illustrated by the complaints people regularly make. That never happens. I don't know why people keep expecting it to.
Go back and think of your favorite MMO. Consider how the game started you out. Was the starting game anywhere near as involved, fast-paced, complex or "open" as it was later in the game? I'm betting it wasn't. Did it stop you from playing, learning, advancing and ultimately enjoying the game? Again, I'm betting it didn't.
The early levels are intended as "Basic Training". Expecting the Beginning/Early levels of a new MMO to play like the Late/End-Game levels of the ones you played before is pretty much asking to be disappointed.
Regarding skill I may be dreaming but was not there some items in game that increased skill recharge or something like that? And if that is correct would that not mean the GCD would become shorter as well?
Originally posted by superpata Regarding skill I may be dreaming but was not there some items in game that increased skill recharge or something like that? And if that is correct would that not mean the GCD would become shorter as well?
Yeah, my skills at level 22 were ~2.4 second cooldowns. I can't remember the stat name... Who knows if there is a cap on it and how far down you can get it with top end gear though.
Even though the combat and questing are nothing new, at all, there is something intangibly fun about ARR I can't quite put a finger on.
The characters, the world, the stories, the dialog.. I actually read the quest text, the cut scenes and mini boss battles... the animations and just feel to everything... when you hit with an ability it is just flashy enough to be "impactful" and really feel like it has weight. The sound design is incredible.
Everything just feels right, moves right, plays right, looks amazing...
Doesn't reinvent the wheel, but man it is a nice wheel.
In a world of clones, unorignal game design, poor production quality, or just a complete lack of addictive gameplay, FFXIV somehow manages to weave together juuuuuusssttt the right mix to deliver a unique and interesting game I can't wait to spend countless hours in.
I know many will not be able to look past the slower paced combat and kill/collect/fedex questing.
I understand some are just completely tired of it.
But the main story has thus far been worth the price of admission alone.
Throw in housing and grand companies and everything else I haven't seen yet, Guild leves and dungeons and raids are worth the price of subscription to me.
I think lots of people are so hell bent on "something new" and "something different" that they've forgotten what makes these games great. What makes these games worth subbing to.
To me, it's adventure. It's the feeling of awe and wonder and that push to keep going and see what is next, to hit that next milestone.
FFXIV:ARR has soul. It's classic, it's a bit old school, yet it's polished - refined. It's an evolution of the archetype, a step in the logical sequence.
I just need to find a good guild to pal around with. This is the kind of MMO experience best shared with others.
I agree with this 100%
I see a lot of people saying stuff like skipping the quest dialogue, too slow, everythings spammy, mindless grind....but I have to ask, are we playing the same game?
One of the main selling points of FF is the story, and even the smallest quest has witty banter, humorous dialogue, or a touching tale. But you have to want to get into it, I guess.
The girl in Hyrstmill? The people running the Silver Bazaar? They all have touching stories, but if you just skip it all, yea it's all just grinded exp with no soul. Skipping it sounds like a totally travesty to me.
There is something I experienced last night that sort of hit me in the gut.
::POSSIBLE SPOILERS for people who talk to NPCs that aren't part of any quests::
Around level 15, you unlock the first dungeon: Sastasha. Well, when you finish it and go back to Baderon in Limsa Lominsa, there is actually a party of adventurers looking to undertake that mission, except you just finished it. They lament dragging their feet, but get excited to other oppurtunities. They go on to give you a moving speech about having a goal to strive for.
At this point, the NPCs I talk to have nothing to do with any quests whatsoever, and are just standing around
Fast forward a few minutes later to Gridania, and Mother Miuonne points you to a rather heartbreaking party going seperate ways, all blaming the poor Conjurer on their failures. Poor girl It was like, an emotionally scarring situation, at least for her. Then fast forward to the entrance of Tam-tara Deepcroft. That original party from Limsa is standing outside the entrance to the dungeon, right alongside another pair of adventurers that seem to be quite winded.
Talking to the winded pair, they comment on how being older they should be more calm and collected; but for some reason they were rash and didn't think things through before running into battle. As a result they nearly died, if not for some fruit the conjurer had picked on the way there.
The original party has nothing terribly interesting to say, just friendly competition and adventuring inspiration. It is nice to see them there, though. Nice to see adventurers progressing alongside us!
Fast forward to the next dungeon, Copperbell Mines.
The Original Party isn't there, and I frown. It almost became an expectation. Perhaps they were inside the Mines, or I would run into them afterwards.
But the two older adventurers from Tamtara were there. So I spoke to them.
And my heart broke.
The original party . . . was killed. They had become too reckless, trying to compete with themselves and other adventurers, to the point they became too rash. And they lost their lives.
It was . . . really saddening. They were dead.
And I would never have known any of this story, had I not spoken to the NPCs.
::end of possible spoilers::
They weren't part of any questline or anything.
Just some of the stuff you miss when you spam through NPC dialogue. : /
Did you get to where you can mix and match classes?The original classes are a bit bland,it creates the build up to when you can mix other classes.They definitely stream lined combat from say FFXi,probably to save cost and time,but it is still good enough imo.
I mean look at my Conjurer ,all i do is Stone and Wind and cure but with other classes it opens up a lot more versatility.They won't be done either,expect Samurai in first xpac and probably Blue mage as well.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If I don't like the combat, I won't like the game. I've been clear about that before, and the combat looks incredibly dull. Of course, I can't decide for sure until I play it. But honestly, I don't expect anything great.
Even though the combat and questing are nothing new, at all, there is something intangibly fun about ARR I can't quite put a finger on.
The characters, the world, the stories, the dialog.. I actually read the quest text, the cut scenes and mini boss battles... the animations and just feel to everything... when you hit with an ability it is just flashy enough to be "impactful" and really feel like it has weight. The sound design is incredible.
Everything just feels right, moves right, plays right, looks amazing...
Doesn't reinvent the wheel, but man it is a nice wheel.
In a world of clones, unorignal game design, poor production quality, or just a complete lack of addictive gameplay, FFXIV somehow manages to weave together juuuuuusssttt the right mix to deliver a unique and interesting game I can't wait to spend countless hours in.
I know many will not be able to look past the slower paced combat and kill/collect/fedex questing.
I understand some are just completely tired of it.
But the main story has thus far been worth the price of admission alone.
Throw in housing and grand companies and everything else I haven't seen yet, Guild leves and dungeons and raids are worth the price of subscription to me.
I think lots of people are so hell bent on "something new" and "something different" that they've forgotten what makes these games great. What makes these games worth subbing to.
To me, it's adventure. It's the feeling of awe and wonder and that push to keep going and see what is next, to hit that next milestone.
FFXIV:ARR has soul. It's classic, it's a bit old school, yet it's polished - refined. It's an evolution of the archetype, a step in the logical sequence.
I just need to find a good guild to pal around with. This is the kind of MMO experience best shared with others.
Very well said.
It's not so much the individual things that make the game, it's everything together.
It's not my "perfect dream game". Not at all. Right now, I'm about 80% love, 20% hate with this game. There are things about the game I'm not crazy about at all, and I wish had been approached differently. No question. I've done my share of "Why would you do that, Yoshi-P?" on the beta forums lol. However, the 80% that I love about make it, by far, an enjoyable experience well worth my time. My gauge of a game isn't if it's "the perfect game". No game is. My gauge is "are the good parts enough to make the not-so-good parts tolerable?". For me, it's a resounding 'Yes' with ARR.
It won't be for everyone, nor is it trying to be, nor should it be. That's not a dismissive "excuse". It's a fact; one that Yoshi-P himself has acknowledged. He's stated it's "too idealistic" to try and make a MMO to "please everyone". And that's absolutely true. Every MMO that has tried has failed - including WoW (after all, for all the millions playing WoW, millions more are playing something else). He and his team are crafting a specific kind of experience with a certain group of players in mind. And I think it's clear his approach is working as, despite the number of people saying the game isn't that great, many more are loving it. It's the complete inverse of how it was with 1.0... and is how it should be.
As a person with all 50's who finally got access to them last weekend, I can say that no I don't find combat "very dull".
I find it to be a big improvement from 1.0, but I didn't think combat at the end of 1.23's changes was "very dull" either. I think it was challenging, I think that few people beat a lot of endgame encounters despite countless attempts. I met a lot of people who really struggled with their roles, the OP and many others complaining are simply super gamers.
There are some gamers apparently, you know them by name of course as they are locally famous within their MMO's. These are the people who don't have to theorycraft on forums, they don't pay attention to class guides, all it takes them is five seconds in a new MMO and they have everything down to a T.
These are the people who upon reaching cap get world firsts in all content, with their eyes closed playing 30 minutes a week (because they have a life). They don't ever look at the strategies of others, they form their own, wait... scratch that they don't need strategies because they know the secret to "WoW clone" mmo combat.
Tab, 1, 2, 3
It's so simple. Unfortunately millions of MMORPG gamers from the first days of Everquest 1, through every game since then (*talking non "action" MMO), all of WoW's encounters, all of XI, all of every MMORPG just don't learn. It is all the same, tab> 1, 2, 3. You don't even have to have your eyes open.
I played GW2 and Tera and thought I was pretty good at their hack and slash combat system, but I am sure I didn't even scratch the surface of those amazing real life combat simulators because I still have to apply effort to play even "non-skill based" MMORPG's. So if you are just that good, like the OP someone who has conquered every encounter from Lady Vox in early EQ1 through everything else added since, you will find this game to be a complete joke faceroll LOL kiddiepool garbage crap BORING eyes bleeding mindless spamfest.
But hey, that's why some people are just gaming gods and it's why we respect them as much as we do. I wish I could be like them, but I'm still having fun in my simple tab-1, 2, 3=WIN games (I still haven't figured out how to pull that off). Unfortunately there are not enough people like me, most people who play MMORPG's are just that damn good and that is why this game will likely fail. People have done IT ALL before in mmorpg's they demand something new, they beat this game before it even launched. Come on Yoshi-P give them something that even remotely challenges them!!!
People, please stop saying slower = more strategic or tactical. The speed of the combat has nothing to do with these concepts. "Combat simulators" (essentially hitting hotkeys and dicerolling effects) aren't strategic or tactical. FFXIV's combat isn't strategic or tactical, nor is Everquest's or FFXI's or any slower paced MMO. If you want an example of strategy or tactical combat go play a Tactics style game or a squad based shooter. I'd hate to say it, but even Call of Duty or even a single player JRPG like Final Fantasy is far more strategic and tactical than a slow combat simulator MMORPG.
People, please stop saying slower = more strategic or tactical. The speed of the combat has nothing to do with these concepts. "Combat simulators" (essentially hitting hotkeys and dicerolling effects) aren't strategic or tactical. FFXIV's combat isn't strategic or tactical, nor is Everquest's or FFXI's or any slower paced MMO. If you want an example of strategy or tactical combat go play a Tactics style game or a squad based shooter. I'd hate to say it, but even Call of Duty or even a single player JRPG like Final Fantasy is far more strategic and tactical than a slow combat simulator MMORPG.
Yeah all REAL gamers with even half a brain play Call of Duty.
Only stupid brainless idiots would play RPG's and think they are challenging. Idiots, look at all those losers THINKING they were enjoying MMORPG's that were "challenging", so stupid man what is wrong with those people. Right AIMonster? There are no tactics, strategy, or brain activity involved in these MMO's at all. Dogs and cats and Rube Goldberg machines make up most of their playerbases probably not adult human beings!
STOP SAYING YOU AREN'T AN IDIOT PLAYING A MINDLESS/SLOW BUTTON MASHER PEOPLE!
Everyone knows the game he is playing, or designing in his room is where the real fun/challenge is at.
Its MMO combat. I really dont understand what people want from MMO's anymore. You tab target, click/press on the shorcuts, stuff happens ... MMO. Developers have tried different things and have failed miserably yet you want the next one to revolutionize combat again. WTF? Has anyone ever whined about CoD being just another point and click shooter? God of War for being just another "tap the attack button 100 times" game? Uncharted for being another "climber." No! Almost everyone is happy just to get another iteration of the same damned thing with a new story and different maps to do the same damned thing on. Not MMO's though, those need to change the face of gaming for every new release or ... well its doesnt really matter because even the new, 'fresh' ones always fail anyway.
I think its time all the WoW converts go back to consoles. Whatever "MMO-magic" attracted them to Warcraft in the first place is only ever accepted in WoW and is going to die with WoW.
People, please stop saying slower = more strategic or tactical. The speed of the combat has nothing to do with these concepts. "Combat simulators" (essentially hitting hotkeys and dicerolling effects) aren't strategic or tactical. FFXIV's combat isn't strategic or tactical, nor is Everquest's or FFXI's or any slower paced MMO. If you want an example of strategy or tactical combat go play a Tactics style game or a squad based shooter. I'd hate to say it, but even Call of Duty or even a single player JRPG like Final Fantasy is far more strategic and tactical than a slow combat simulator MMORPG.
No one's saying slower=more strategic.
They're saying (though perhaps not clearly) that the combat is slower because as you level up, the combat does become more strategic and tactical. Actions have to be wisely chosen and well-placed. You have other party members to coordinate with. You have enemies' actions or reactions to deal with. There's time required to adjust for positioning required by certain attacks. You have combos and limit breaks to pay attention to. You have a limited amount of resources to work with, such as TP - which does start to deplete quickly if you're just spamming the same keys over and over again without thought.
In fact, in a sense, a GCD is a "resource" in itself, in the form of Time. Think about it. Once you hit a skill, you have 2.5 seconds (maybe less if you have gear that reduces it later on) of time in-between where the most you may have available is your auto-attack, or perhaps usage of an item.
If a fight is at a critical point where it's "you or them" and one attack can make all the difference... that next 2.5 seconds can turn the tides of the fight, or it could be the end for you. Pick the right ability or action, and that next 2.5 seconds can turn things around. Pick the wrong ability, and the next 2.5 seconds could bring your demise.
Because you can't just immediately follow up with an "oh-shit, Undo" ability, or something that sufficiently compensates for a mistake (ie. spam abilities thoughtlessly)... what you choose to do at any given moment can have a big impact. I've had that happen already several times in the lower level fights.... And I'm talking level 15/17 fights.
You also have to remember that the game is not about the *combat* itself. It's about the ways in which each of those skills is used, or how it can be used. A skill that seems "useless" in most fights could suddenly be the game changer in another, all because of some effect it has that you'd previously considered "useless" or at least "not useful enough".
People tend to be looking at this situation at entirely too shallow a level. The abilities themselves and the mechanics of using them (tab vs. action, etc) is only the basis of a game's combat system. Not the entirety of it. It's the aggregate of all those things I mention above, not just any one thing in particular.
Originally posted by Lukavk Game is barely starting at 15. I had a buddy groaning about it being boring until we hit the dungeons then he was completely hooked. Though, honestly, it could just be this game isn't for you. I'd continue to the Ifrit fight and make my decision there at the least.
Yoshi-P gave a very long write up on the design philosophy of the game and actually mentioned in there that the early levels are designed to be easy (aka boring) because they wanted to appeal to a broader audience early on and hopefully convince people to dive deeper. I personally didn't make it far enough to test content above 15 but I also have played enough MMO's to know the beginning levels are going to be slow. As a huge fan of FFXI, the combat itself did not bother me because I am a little tired of all MMO's feeling like they have to push the pace to get good combat. I know this isn't XI, but the skillchain system is what kept that games slow combat from feeling boring to me, so hopefully the group mechanics of XIV has something in place to sprucen up the slow pace. Either way I found the game enjoyable and can't wait for re-release.
Comments
Its my biggest complaint.
Yeah, definitely continue to 20. And read the story line! It gets really good. I've gotten to play up to 22 in the story line and honestly I don't think there wasn't a moment doing a quest that I wasn't engaged in. And at level 15 you get the quest lines to do Satasha, TTC, and CM. All really great dungeons, if not a little short--most likely cause their for newbies. You can't treat this game like another run-of-the-mill mmo. The team has put a lot of work into almost every story line trying to make them really engaging--I would say this story beats GW2 and SWToR by leagues. The fact that it's mostly constant is nice too. The game really opens up as you level, more and more features unlock.
Having now played Conjurer to 10 and Lancer to 10 I actually love the combat.
Sure, it's nothing super fast paced or action packed.
But it's oddly satisfying, and to me the rest of the game is just fantastic so the combat really "fits."
I mean... heh.
Combats perfectly fine to me. I mean i played ffxi forever and that games not exactly the most fast paced game in the world.
But based off classes pgl i liked the most out of the dps classes mine is 22. Forms and such to do certain skills, good defensive stuff for solo etc.
Cnj most boring class i've played in the beta, can't really ask much from a healer at low levels, but man just using cure and medica boring as crap lol, i've only done one dungeon with the conjurer tho so can't say mor ethen that.
Gladitaor, I've never been much of the tanking type person but wanted to try, and man defintley had to keep a rotation up to keep all the mobs on me, and have to worry about mp and tp instead of one of the another, fun and challenging to me.
I only did a test of the rest of the classes at 15. Thm is just basically spam of whatever skill, be it fire or ice and you get aoe, they'll get more exciting in the future for sure. Archer was actually pretty fun to solo with get to pin down mobs while running around etc.
Lancer just different rotation on skills, and they do more dammage from behind which i haven't been able to test yet. And lastly Marauder, It's intersting that their tanks, I need to try these dudes but most of their skills seem like attack skills to me, but their pretty defensive at same time.
Anyhow thats my opinion, just try to put more effort into the game, could end up being more fun to you. (Side note like the Ifrit fight that ho, will make you move around alot so its not like you get to sit their and spam skills, and it seems like theirs alot of aoe circles so the gcd seems fine for low level as it is)
Can't wait for arcanist :<
If you play this like WoW at later levels you're dead. Judge the game's combat at level 15 on since Yoshi keeps telling people prior to this is the tutorial phase of the game.
It will be interesting in seeing you kiddies playing an old school strategy fighting mmorpg. managing resources, positioning, managing agro, crowd controlling its all there. Play the game like WoW if you want to. I suggest using this time to practice your fighting style with the class you picked so you are great at it later on instead of being caught off guard. I also jump out of AOE telegraphs making use of the jump buttion.
It will also be interesting in seeing the old Crowd Controller crowd showing em how its done.
When have players become so unoriginal and non innovative? I'm an old school SF2 tourney player. So I make up stuff as I move along.
I'm telling you right now. My pugilist is the fastest thing on the ground because of the way I fight. I know better than to not stand in one place and I"m constantly practicing positioning and dodging around enemies to get the highest dps bonuses.
Want a more active fighting style? Go lancer or pugilist and start practicing moving around and hitting from the side or rear, Also start practicing your combos.
I honestly feel bad for the console controller users. A PC fighter who is mobile is going to mop the floor with you in battles.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
It doesn't change, the combat is the combat, but it does get faster and more involved, with a lots of different skills and positioning and re-actionary skills and cross-class abilities.
Personally, I really enjoy the combat and do not think it is dull or boring. In fact, I was playing my lv 50 Dragoon yesterday, exploring and killing lv 45-48 Ixali in the North Shroud, and even a few levels below me I kind of had to stay on my game, and watch what I was doing every CD. Do I heal? Is he doing a weaponskill, should I move out of the way or stun him? Are my Jump abilities off CD?
I tanked Sastasha and Tam-tara Deepcroft on my Gladiator last night, and that was an absolute blast. Having to balance using Flash to grab mobs, then the combo to either increase enmity and do dmg, or to regain my MP from using Flash.
I don't know, it isn't boring or dull to me. /shrug
I dunno, I guess I can see why other people wouldn't like the combat, but to me it's the same MMO combat I've grown to love, only refined and made better. IMHO.
Your usage my vary.
@ OP - Yes, the combat is terrible. I wanted to like the game so bad since I'm an old-school FF fanboy, but I just can't. The combat is so bad that it ruins the rest of the game for me. I hate fetch quests enough already but was willing to look past it - but the act of grinding them with this terrible combat system is not going to happen. It's sad but true.
I would even go as far to say that WoW's combat is more fun.
Serious death penalties makes every close call an adrenaline rush, and every minor achievement a major victory. This alternative rule-set should be in all MMORPGs.
This pretty much sums it up for me too.
Even though the combat and questing are nothing new, at all, there is something intangibly fun about ARR I can't quite put a finger on.
The characters, the world, the stories, the dialog.. I actually read the quest text, the cut scenes and mini boss battles... the animations and just feel to everything... when you hit with an ability it is just flashy enough to be "impactful" and really feel like it has weight. The sound design is incredible.
Everything just feels right, moves right, plays right, looks amazing...
Doesn't reinvent the wheel, but man it is a nice wheel.
In a world of clones, unorignal game design, poor production quality, or just a complete lack of addictive gameplay, FFXIV somehow manages to weave together juuuuuusssttt the right mix to deliver a unique and interesting game I can't wait to spend countless hours in.
I know many will not be able to look past the slower paced combat and kill/collect/fedex questing.
I understand some are just completely tired of it.
But the main story has thus far been worth the price of admission alone.
Throw in housing and grand companies and everything else I haven't seen yet, Guild leves and dungeons and raids are worth the price of subscription to me.
I think lots of people are so hell bent on "something new" and "something different" that they've forgotten what makes these games great. What makes these games worth subbing to.
To me, it's adventure. It's the feeling of awe and wonder and that push to keep going and see what is next, to hit that next milestone.
FFXIV:ARR has soul. It's classic, it's a bit old school, yet it's polished - refined. It's an evolution of the archetype, a step in the logical sequence.
I just need to find a good guild to pal around with. This is the kind of MMO experience best shared with others.
I feel the same way. I like the combat of GW2 and even some twitch based mmorpgs, but I also truly love the combat of old EQ1 and FFXI. I'm not a fan of quests, but as long as grinding a camp of mobs with friends is viable then I am good to go. So far, playing XIV 2.0, I really love what I see and can't wait until the next beta opens.
Levels 1-15 are essentially New Player/Tutorial levels. The game is deliberately designed to be more basic, more straight forward and uncomplicated so people new to MMORPGs can learn the basics and ease into the game.
The problem is how people who've played other MMOs tend to come in expecting it to play from day 1 like the higher level content in the last game they enjoyed - as illustrated by the complaints people regularly make. That never happens. I don't know why people keep expecting it to.
Go back and think of your favorite MMO. Consider how the game started you out. Was the starting game anywhere near as involved, fast-paced, complex or "open" as it was later in the game? I'm betting it wasn't. Did it stop you from playing, learning, advancing and ultimately enjoying the game? Again, I'm betting it didn't.
The early levels are intended as "Basic Training". Expecting the Beginning/Early levels of a new MMO to play like the Late/End-Game levels of the ones you played before is pretty much asking to be disappointed.
Yeah, my skills at level 22 were ~2.4 second cooldowns. I can't remember the stat name... Who knows if there is a cap on it and how far down you can get it with top end gear though.
I agree with this 100%
I see a lot of people saying stuff like skipping the quest dialogue, too slow, everythings spammy, mindless grind....but I have to ask, are we playing the same game?
One of the main selling points of FF is the story, and even the smallest quest has witty banter, humorous dialogue, or a touching tale. But you have to want to get into it, I guess.
The girl in Hyrstmill? The people running the Silver Bazaar? They all have touching stories, but if you just skip it all, yea it's all just grinded exp with no soul. Skipping it sounds like a totally travesty to me.
There is something I experienced last night that sort of hit me in the gut.
::POSSIBLE SPOILERS for people who talk to NPCs that aren't part of any quests::
Around level 15, you unlock the first dungeon: Sastasha. Well, when you finish it and go back to Baderon in Limsa Lominsa, there is actually a party of adventurers looking to undertake that mission, except you just finished it. They lament dragging their feet, but get excited to other oppurtunities. They go on to give you a moving speech about having a goal to strive for.
At this point, the NPCs I talk to have nothing to do with any quests whatsoever, and are just standing around
Fast forward a few minutes later to Gridania, and Mother Miuonne points you to a rather heartbreaking party going seperate ways, all blaming the poor Conjurer on their failures. Poor girl
It was like, an emotionally scarring situation, at least for her. Then fast forward to the entrance of Tam-tara Deepcroft. That original party from Limsa is standing outside the entrance to the dungeon, right alongside another pair of adventurers that seem to be quite winded.
Talking to the winded pair, they comment on how being older they should be more calm and collected; but for some reason they were rash and didn't think things through before running into battle. As a result they nearly died, if not for some fruit the conjurer had picked on the way there.
The original party has nothing terribly interesting to say, just friendly competition and adventuring inspiration. It is nice to see them there, though. Nice to see adventurers progressing alongside us!
Fast forward to the next dungeon, Copperbell Mines.
The Original Party isn't there, and I frown. It almost became an expectation. Perhaps they were inside the Mines, or I would run into them afterwards.
But the two older adventurers from Tamtara were there. So I spoke to them.
And my heart broke.
The original party . . . was killed. They had become too reckless, trying to compete with themselves and other adventurers, to the point they became too rash. And they lost their lives.
It was . . . really saddening. They were dead.
And I would never have known any of this story, had I not spoken to the NPCs.
::end of possible spoilers::
They weren't part of any questline or anything.
Just some of the stuff you miss when you spam through NPC dialogue. : /
Did you get to where you can mix and match classes?The original classes are a bit bland,it creates the build up to when you can mix other classes.They definitely stream lined combat from say FFXi,probably to save cost and time,but it is still good enough imo.
I mean look at my Conjurer ,all i do is Stone and Wind and cure but with other classes it opens up a lot more versatility.They won't be done either,expect Samurai in first xpac and probably Blue mage as well.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Very well said.
It's not so much the individual things that make the game, it's everything together.
It's not my "perfect dream game". Not at all. Right now, I'm about 80% love, 20% hate with this game. There are things about the game I'm not crazy about at all, and I wish had been approached differently. No question. I've done my share of "Why would you do that, Yoshi-P?" on the beta forums lol. However, the 80% that I love about make it, by far, an enjoyable experience well worth my time. My gauge of a game isn't if it's "the perfect game". No game is. My gauge is "are the good parts enough to make the not-so-good parts tolerable?". For me, it's a resounding 'Yes' with ARR.
It won't be for everyone, nor is it trying to be, nor should it be. That's not a dismissive "excuse". It's a fact; one that Yoshi-P himself has acknowledged. He's stated it's "too idealistic" to try and make a MMO to "please everyone". And that's absolutely true. Every MMO that has tried has failed - including WoW (after all, for all the millions playing WoW, millions more are playing something else). He and his team are crafting a specific kind of experience with a certain group of players in mind. And I think it's clear his approach is working as, despite the number of people saying the game isn't that great, many more are loving it. It's the complete inverse of how it was with 1.0... and is how it should be.
As a person with all 50's who finally got access to them last weekend, I can say that no I don't find combat "very dull".
I find it to be a big improvement from 1.0, but I didn't think combat at the end of 1.23's changes was "very dull" either. I think it was challenging, I think that few people beat a lot of endgame encounters despite countless attempts. I met a lot of people who really struggled with their roles, the OP and many others complaining are simply super gamers.
There are some gamers apparently, you know them by name of course as they are locally famous within their MMO's. These are the people who don't have to theorycraft on forums, they don't pay attention to class guides, all it takes them is five seconds in a new MMO and they have everything down to a T.
These are the people who upon reaching cap get world firsts in all content, with their eyes closed playing 30 minutes a week (because they have a life). They don't ever look at the strategies of others, they form their own, wait... scratch that they don't need strategies because they know the secret to "WoW clone" mmo combat.
Tab, 1, 2, 3
It's so simple. Unfortunately millions of MMORPG gamers from the first days of Everquest 1, through every game since then (*talking non "action" MMO), all of WoW's encounters, all of XI, all of every MMORPG just don't learn. It is all the same, tab> 1, 2, 3. You don't even have to have your eyes open.
I played GW2 and Tera and thought I was pretty good at their hack and slash combat system, but I am sure I didn't even scratch the surface of those amazing real life combat simulators because I still have to apply effort to play even "non-skill based" MMORPG's. So if you are just that good, like the OP someone who has conquered every encounter from Lady Vox in early EQ1 through everything else added since, you will find this game to be a complete joke faceroll LOL kiddiepool garbage crap BORING eyes bleeding mindless spamfest.
But hey, that's why some people are just gaming gods and it's why we respect them as much as we do. I wish I could be like them, but I'm still having fun in my simple tab-1, 2, 3=WIN games (I still haven't figured out how to pull that off). Unfortunately there are not enough people like me, most people who play MMORPG's are just that damn good and that is why this game will likely fail. People have done IT ALL before in mmorpg's they demand something new, they beat this game before it even launched. Come on Yoshi-P give them something that even remotely challenges them!!!
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
People, please stop saying slower = more strategic or tactical. The speed of the combat has nothing to do with these concepts. "Combat simulators" (essentially hitting hotkeys and dicerolling effects) aren't strategic or tactical. FFXIV's combat isn't strategic or tactical, nor is Everquest's or FFXI's or any slower paced MMO. If you want an example of strategy or tactical combat go play a Tactics style game or a squad based shooter. I'd hate to say it, but even Call of Duty or even a single player JRPG like Final Fantasy is far more strategic and tactical than a slow combat simulator MMORPG.
Yeah all REAL gamers with even half a brain play Call of Duty.
Only stupid brainless idiots would play RPG's and think they are challenging. Idiots, look at all those losers THINKING they were enjoying MMORPG's that were "challenging", so stupid man what is wrong with those people. Right AIMonster? There are no tactics, strategy, or brain activity involved in these MMO's at all. Dogs and cats and Rube Goldberg machines make up most of their playerbases probably not adult human beings!
STOP SAYING YOU AREN'T AN IDIOT PLAYING A MINDLESS/SLOW BUTTON MASHER PEOPLE!
Everyone knows the game he is playing, or designing in his room is where the real fun/challenge is at.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Its MMO combat. I really dont understand what people want from MMO's anymore. You tab target, click/press on the shorcuts, stuff happens ... MMO. Developers have tried different things and have failed miserably yet you want the next one to revolutionize combat again. WTF? Has anyone ever whined about CoD being just another point and click shooter? God of War for being just another "tap the attack button 100 times" game? Uncharted for being another "climber." No! Almost everyone is happy just to get another iteration of the same damned thing with a new story and different maps to do the same damned thing on. Not MMO's though, those need to change the face of gaming for every new release or ... well its doesnt really matter because even the new, 'fresh' ones always fail anyway.
I think its time all the WoW converts go back to consoles. Whatever "MMO-magic" attracted them to Warcraft in the first place is only ever accepted in WoW and is going to die with WoW.
No one's saying slower=more strategic.
They're saying (though perhaps not clearly) that the combat is slower because as you level up, the combat does become more strategic and tactical. Actions have to be wisely chosen and well-placed. You have other party members to coordinate with. You have enemies' actions or reactions to deal with. There's time required to adjust for positioning required by certain attacks. You have combos and limit breaks to pay attention to. You have a limited amount of resources to work with, such as TP - which does start to deplete quickly if you're just spamming the same keys over and over again without thought.
In fact, in a sense, a GCD is a "resource" in itself, in the form of Time. Think about it. Once you hit a skill, you have 2.5 seconds (maybe less if you have gear that reduces it later on) of time in-between where the most you may have available is your auto-attack, or perhaps usage of an item.
If a fight is at a critical point where it's "you or them" and one attack can make all the difference... that next 2.5 seconds can turn the tides of the fight, or it could be the end for you. Pick the right ability or action, and that next 2.5 seconds can turn things around. Pick the wrong ability, and the next 2.5 seconds could bring your demise.
Because you can't just immediately follow up with an "oh-shit, Undo" ability, or something that sufficiently compensates for a mistake (ie. spam abilities thoughtlessly)... what you choose to do at any given moment can have a big impact. I've had that happen already several times in the lower level fights.... And I'm talking level 15/17 fights.
You also have to remember that the game is not about the *combat* itself. It's about the ways in which each of those skills is used, or how it can be used. A skill that seems "useless" in most fights could suddenly be the game changer in another, all because of some effect it has that you'd previously considered "useless" or at least "not useful enough".
People tend to be looking at this situation at entirely too shallow a level. The abilities themselves and the mechanics of using them (tab vs. action, etc) is only the basis of a game's combat system. Not the entirety of it. It's the aggregate of all those things I mention above, not just any one thing in particular.
Forest for the trees.
Yoshi-P gave a very long write up on the design philosophy of the game and actually mentioned in there that the early levels are designed to be easy (aka boring) because they wanted to appeal to a broader audience early on and hopefully convince people to dive deeper. I personally didn't make it far enough to test content above 15 but I also have played enough MMO's to know the beginning levels are going to be slow. As a huge fan of FFXI, the combat itself did not bother me because I am a little tired of all MMO's feeling like they have to push the pace to get good combat. I know this isn't XI, but the skillchain system is what kept that games slow combat from feeling boring to me, so hopefully the group mechanics of XIV has something in place to sprucen up the slow pace. Either way I found the game enjoyable and can't wait for re-release.
Oh and here is that long read by Yoshi....
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/388196/yoshida-explanations.html
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.