Warhammer Online's Tome of Knowledge (ToK), I've seen numerous attempted copies at this, but never something as truly deep as WAR had. It made PvE (as a PvP player) 100% more enjoyable.
Other games have done player economies but I've never seen one as complex and actually brought together all most all aspects of the game. Everyone was really interdependent on each other to make it work. The cycling resource qualities really let a good crafter stand out above the rest.
This right here. Was just talking to a buddy about their system today. And you could make a profession out of just a portion of the system. I never really did much crafting. I liked to roam and resource gather though, then put up resources on the AH or give the best stuff to crafter friends.
This is what I would have said too. But it wasn't just the crafting. It was how all the Professions needed something from another Profession. A Commando could get animal hides a lot easier than a Master Weaponsmith. It created its own economy.
The way the economy worked in SWG in general is probably the number one thing MMO's are missing. For instance:
Problem:
"Our players are running out of stuff to do! They're eating through this content faster than we can make it!"
Solution:
"Give their classes jobs and services that depend on every other class. The content will invent itself."
Problem:
"But, WoW doesn't do that! Maybe we should make a new business model that allows us to make the same money in less time? Eureka!"
Solution:
"How about you give their classes jobs and services that depend on every other class instead? That way, they always have something important to do, and your community doesn't leave the game before you finish the new content. And since your community never leaves in the first place, they will grow strong and will stick with you for the long haul."
I know it sucks. The crafting system was awsome. To get the best gear, you had to get it from a top notch crafter who made it from considerable resources. YOU DIDNT LOOT YOUR GEAR.
I know thats a strange concept in todays MMO. But in that game crafters made the best gear. I was a droidsmith who made bomb droids mainly for Bounty Hunting. I had to set harvesters, place factories-run factories to make sub-components for days just to get the crates to run a factory to make droids.
Then armorsmith with reverse engineering I made about 20 suits of modded armor. I sold suits for 40 million credits.
eh just pisses me off. that was just my crafter. After awhile, with invasions, my crafter saw combat. yes crafters made the invasion defenses AND could repair them. I could just about win a invasion by myself contrusting turrets, NPC, and barricades.
Been waiting for SOE to bring these awsome game elements back in a new game.
Played:SWG(pre NGE/CU sucked)Yep its true, anyone who quit SWG because of the NGE/CU missed out on a much better combat system. DCUO, Fallen Earth, STO, The Secret World. Battlefield series. Planetside 2. Still playing SWG.
Besieged/Campaign/Nyzul Isle and a few others from FFXI that slip me for the name of them.
Besieged is by far the most popular i have seen,it fills up every time no matter what.FFXI is so limited however being a PS2 game,if some developer did it with a modern game engine and added a few more features to it,i could hang out doing that 3/4/5 times every day .
Another feature i miss a lot and wish was never abandoned and improved was the Renkai system with magic bursts.The depth of the system was brilliant.
The straight out sub class system ,all games mimic it with their own Hybrid brand but never a straight out sub class system the way FFXI did it cutting your secondary class in half and having to actually play those classes instead of just placing check marks to gain abilities.
I love the imbue idea from Runes of magic,it has depth and takes a lot of time to really get to the o/p stage,i like that.It is because i hate when games keep you from getting anywhere with player or item progression,in ROM imbue system,if you wanted to spend the enormous amount of time and effort,you could gear your player with some very awesome gear.At least this way it is up to the player,if they are too lazy then they can rush forward in levels ,to those that are not lazy they get the benefits.
Another feature i am not sure if was copied was again ROM,you could actually attack other guild halls,unlike GW2 that doesn't actually have guild halls or GH battles lol.I know there has been castle sieges that take place outside but i never heard of any actual Guildhall sieges.
I am sure there are many more features i loved,i am just tired and can't think right now ,plus i have food on my mind :P.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I know it sucks. The crafting system was awsome. To get the best gear, you had to get it from a top notch crafter who made it from considerable resources. YOU DIDNT LOOT YOUR GEAR.
I know thats a strange concept in todays MMO. But in that game crafters made the best gear. I was a droidsmith who made bomb droids mainly for Bounty Hunting. I had to set harvesters, place factories-run factories to make sub-components for days just to get the crates to run a factory to make droids.
Then armorsmith with reverse engineering I made about 20 suits of modded armor. I sold suits for 40 million credits.
eh just pisses me off. that was just my crafter. After awhile, with invasions, my crafter saw combat. yes crafters made the invasion defenses AND could repair them. I could just about win a invasion by myself contrusting turrets, NPC, and barricades.
Been waiting for SOE to bring these awsome game elements back in a new game.
Well, the game was not without its problems. I mean, I loved the concept to death. But it simply was not realized completely. It didn't reach its full potential, which is why no one copies it. And it was never stable.
I think what would have worked well with that system is to have an in-game middle man that helped maintain the prices on the player run economy. For instance:
1. A Smuggler trades in his Bantha hides (or whatever) to a centralized bank that processes everything about the hide.
2. It would calculate the base worth of the hide by the cumulative average of the quality of each element within the hide.
3. It would then raise or lower the value of the hide depending on the rarity of the elements, quality, supply, etc.
4. It would then pay the Smuggler that amount, per unit, and place the elements inside the vault.
5. Or, the Smuggler could opt to keep the elements for his own use. These processed elements are account bound. He is also not paid their worth, and instead pays a processing fee.
6. A Weaponsmith would then go to the bank and purchase those elements for that set cost, plus a processing fee.
7. He would then craft a cool gun with these elements account bound unless sold back to the bank.
8. Selling them back to the bank would give him his money back, at cost, minus the additional percentage.
9. Using them to craft, he could produce an item, and then sell the item to the AH or another player directly.
10. The AH would start with a base amount depending on the item, and multiply it by varying factors: quality, supply, level, etc.
11. Selling it directly to a player, it could be set at whatever price the crafter and buyer wanted.
While specific to SWG there were a few additional things to consider (like the Vendor Management Profession), this is an example of how a game like SWG where it focussed on these sorts of class services can implement a player driven economy, while avoiding a lot of the pitfalls player driven economies fall into - such as price gouging. Which, let's be honest... is the main reason why people hate player driven economies dictated by crafters and such.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Wait--attempted copies, or successful copies? We've seem several companies talk the talk.
But--are you encouraging someone in the industry to make the dreaded ::horrors:: clone???
I'd love a clone of a legendary game. UO clone, DAoC clone, yes please.
We just get clones of a really poorly designed game, and as a result all the clones suck.
On top of that, DAoC and UO don't really exist anymore, not the good versions of them. So yeah, I'd love a classic DAoC clone, it'd be like reviving a dinosaur.
Originally posted by Theocritus Anarchy Online's mission system....I loved rolling missions in AO, especially being able to mess with the sliders for difficulty and other options.
Shadowbane's system of protecting a players worn gear but otherwise making their back packs, including the gold they are carrying lootable upon death (and in the case of thieves, they can steal from your backpack directly)
This allowed a player to wear their best gear, and make choices when gathering loot regarding when was it the right time to go back and bank. (and penalties for guessing wrong)
I remember fondly playing a half-giant and being the group mule. I had th emost storage so I would carry all the loot and have to find my way back to bank it whil e they continued to farm. They usually did send a guard with me. I remember once when we got back to our tower(our city was under construction) and it was camped by a large group. There was much gnashing of teeth when I let them know that all that loot was gone. I was given 2 guards after that, lol.
The faction system from EverQuest. Having almost every kill affect your faction standing one way or the other was a game in itself. Killing the wrong guy could make you kill on sight to NPCs who where friendly to you and at the same time help you to become friends with your enemies. I think it is loads better than the static factions in current games.
SWG had the same system but since they are not around anymore I figured it would safe to use it.
As far as I know Asheron's Call feature of spending earnable experience to purchase skills has never been copied. Neither has its crafting system called Tinkering, which allowed each loot item the possibility of being enchanted up to 10 times.
Gameplay involves earning experience points through a variety of activities, including engaging and defeating monsters in combat, fulfilling quests, and interacting with NPCs. Those earned experience points can then be invested to improve the character's abilities by spending it on attributes or skills. Additional skill points are awarded after the character reaches certain levels, and these skill points can then be used to acquire a new skill. In addition to earning experience, questing and combat yields 'loot', such as armor, weapons, health potions, and spell scrolls. Many types of loot can be improved or imbued with special spells and effects via Asheron's Call's 'tinkering' crafting system.
I believe that's a description of the GW2 skill system.
Many elements of Asheron's Call are radically different from most other MMORPGs. For example, Asheron's Call does not divide its world into different level zones. While some areas are much more dangerous to players than others, there is nonetheless a mix of different creatures types that creates much more unpredictability than is present in other games. Another key difference is that Asheron's Call does not use character level as the major determinant in the outcome of a combat. Level simply determines what skills are available, and it is the skills and equipment of players and creatures that determine the outcome. Whereas in many games a player will be able to move a cursor over an opponent and instantly know from their level whether they will be successful in combat, in Asheron's Call a character might be able to defeat much higher level foes or lose to much lower level ones, again depending upon one's skill choices and equipment. As with the absence of specific level zones, this creates a higher degree of unpredictability than in most games of this type.
I believe that TSW does this as well.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
never played asheron's call but the spending earnable exp on skills sounds like the Merit system in ffxi. after you hit max level you could gain exp towards a "level up" each level earning you a merit point to spend on traits and skills for your toon
Sort of similar but not exactly. EXP earned can be spent on skills and attributes when ever you want. Level is nothing but a number to denote how often you can a skill point. 1 every 5 level, and each skill costs a set amount of points i.e. War Magic costs 16 points to train and 16 more points to specialize.
Getting skill points each time you level sounds very similar to TSW design if i'm not mistaken, they don't have the spend exp points into skill thing if that was what you were referring to but the everytime you level (and by level I mean fill the bar) it only gives you skill points, you could fill that bar over and over and over again and never see an improvement in your battles if you don't spend your points.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
"Never copied" hmm that could make up for long quote discussions, anyways.
Eq AA system (Alternative Advancement), the best solution to the endgame problematic I am aware of.
To those who doesn't know AA, it was an alternative xp system side by side with the standard levels. Usually when reaching max level players will turn on AA xp, and any xp gained will go to the AA levelling system, and earn AA points. AA points can then be used on skills that further improve Your character.
Example of AA skills coul be, damage mitigation, faster fun speeds, class specifc features, and lots and lots more. When AA was introduced with SoL expansion, there were a few hundrede AA to get and getting all would take serious efford (back then months of playing pretty hardcore). Today with how many expansions are there 15? the amount of AA to possibly get is past the 5000 mark.
Effectively it is a skill system on top of traditional levelling, that deals very effectively with the problem of only improving with gear when reaching max level. Offcourse hardcore players will get max AA, and some AA are not as usuable as others, and Eq has suffered greatly from easymode mechanics introduced making 5000 not that daunting, but still it would probably take several hundrede days /played.
Comments
Originally posted by Mystlynx
This right here. Was just talking to a buddy about their system today. And you could make a profession out of just a portion of the system. I never really did much crafting. I liked to roam and resource gather though, then put up resources on the AH or give the best stuff to crafter friends.
This is what I would have said too. But it wasn't just the crafting. It was how all the Professions needed something from another Profession. A Commando could get animal hides a lot easier than a Master Weaponsmith. It created its own economy.
The way the economy worked in SWG in general is probably the number one thing MMO's are missing. For instance:
Problem:
"Our players are running out of stuff to do! They're eating through this content faster than we can make it!"
Solution:
"Give their classes jobs and services that depend on every other class. The content will invent itself."
Problem:
"But, WoW doesn't do that! Maybe we should make a new business model that allows us to make the same money in less time? Eureka!"
Solution:
"How about you give their classes jobs and services that depend on every other class instead? That way, they always have something important to do, and your community doesn't leave the game before you finish the new content. And since your community never leaves in the first place, they will grow strong and will stick with you for the long haul."
ReplyAdd Multi-QuoteRemove Multi-QuoteQuote
I know it sucks. The crafting system was awsome. To get the best gear, you had to get it from a top notch crafter who made it from considerable resources. YOU DIDNT LOOT YOUR GEAR.
I know thats a strange concept in todays MMO. But in that game crafters made the best gear. I was a droidsmith who made bomb droids mainly for Bounty Hunting. I had to set harvesters, place factories-run factories to make sub-components for days just to get the crates to run a factory to make droids.
Then armorsmith with reverse engineering I made about 20 suits of modded armor. I sold suits for 40 million credits.
eh just pisses me off. that was just my crafter. After awhile, with invasions, my crafter saw combat. yes crafters made the invasion defenses AND could repair them. I could just about win a invasion by myself contrusting turrets, NPC, and barricades.
Been waiting for SOE to bring these awsome game elements back in a new game.
Played:SWG(pre NGE/CU sucked)Yep its true, anyone who quit SWG because of the NGE/CU missed out on a much better combat system. DCUO, Fallen Earth, STO, The Secret World. Battlefield series. Planetside 2. Still playing SWG.
Besieged/Campaign/Nyzul Isle and a few others from FFXI that slip me for the name of them.
Besieged is by far the most popular i have seen,it fills up every time no matter what.FFXI is so limited however being a PS2 game,if some developer did it with a modern game engine and added a few more features to it,i could hang out doing that 3/4/5 times every day
.
Another feature i miss a lot and wish was never abandoned and improved was the Renkai system with magic bursts.The depth of the system was brilliant.
The straight out sub class system ,all games mimic it with their own Hybrid brand but never a straight out sub class system the way FFXI did it cutting your secondary class in half and having to actually play those classes instead of just placing check marks to gain abilities.
I love the imbue idea from Runes of magic,it has depth and takes a lot of time to really get to the o/p stage,i like that.It is because i hate when games keep you from getting anywhere with player or item progression,in ROM imbue system,if you wanted to spend the enormous amount of time and effort,you could gear your player with some very awesome gear.At least this way it is up to the player,if they are too lazy then they can rush forward in levels ,to those that are not lazy they get the benefits.
Another feature i am not sure if was copied was again ROM,you could actually attack other guild halls,unlike GW2 that doesn't actually have guild halls or GH battles lol.I know there has been castle sieges that take place outside but i never heard of any actual Guildhall sieges.
I am sure there are many more features i loved,i am just tired and can't think right now ,plus i have food on my mind :P.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well, the game was not without its problems. I mean, I loved the concept to death. But it simply was not realized completely. It didn't reach its full potential, which is why no one copies it. And it was never stable.
I think what would have worked well with that system is to have an in-game middle man that helped maintain the prices on the player run economy. For instance:
1. A Smuggler trades in his Bantha hides (or whatever) to a centralized bank that processes everything about the hide.
2. It would calculate the base worth of the hide by the cumulative average of the quality of each element within the hide.
3. It would then raise or lower the value of the hide depending on the rarity of the elements, quality, supply, etc.
4. It would then pay the Smuggler that amount, per unit, and place the elements inside the vault.
5. Or, the Smuggler could opt to keep the elements for his own use. These processed elements are account bound. He is also not paid their worth, and instead pays a processing fee.
6. A Weaponsmith would then go to the bank and purchase those elements for that set cost, plus a processing fee.
7. He would then craft a cool gun with these elements account bound unless sold back to the bank.
8. Selling them back to the bank would give him his money back, at cost, minus the additional percentage.
9. Using them to craft, he could produce an item, and then sell the item to the AH or another player directly.
10. The AH would start with a base amount depending on the item, and multiply it by varying factors: quality, supply, level, etc.
11. Selling it directly to a player, it could be set at whatever price the crafter and buyer wanted.
While specific to SWG there were a few additional things to consider (like the Vendor Management Profession), this is an example of how a game like SWG where it focussed on these sorts of class services can implement a player driven economy, while avoiding a lot of the pitfalls player driven economies fall into - such as price gouging. Which, let's be honest... is the main reason why people hate player driven economies dictated by crafters and such.
I agree with this. So many features in cox that I loved and find surprising that they haven't been used more.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I'd love a clone of a legendary game. UO clone, DAoC clone, yes please.
We just get clones of a really poorly designed game, and as a result all the clones suck.
On top of that, DAoC and UO don't really exist anymore, not the good versions of them. So yeah, I'd love a classic DAoC clone, it'd be like reviving a dinosaur.
^THIS
Erm....Camelot Unchained? GW2?
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
FFXIV has scalable mission and rewards. You can make your levequest up to +4 level higher.
I remember fondly playing a half-giant and being the group mule. I had th emost storage so I would carry all the loot and have to find my way back to bank it whil e they continued to farm. They usually did send a guard with me. I remember once when we got back to our tower(our city was under construction) and it was camped by a large group. There was much gnashing of teeth when I let them know that all that loot was gone. I was given 2 guards after that, lol.
Currently bored with MMO's.
Pre-PoP EQ twinking.
Where you could wear any item at any level if you could get your hands on it.
It increases replay value greatly to be able to farm for items that your alt will use..... FUNGI TUNIC yes pls.
OP...that's easy ..............Dark Age of Camelot
Some have copied parts of the game...but none understand the mechanics that make the game great.
GW 2 ,RIFT,AOC come to mind
EQ questing system.
No ! points... you have to /type quest key information and have converations with NPC to find secret quests.
In addition, EQ leveling through mob killing. Sure quests gave some bonus xp.. but it was not the main xp path.
Amen to that. Everyone is using instancing now and one of its major selling points is the ability to dynamically scale content.
I'd also love to see games copy EverQuest's Alternate Advancement system and Vanguard's Diplomacy system.
Oh yeah, I hope companies start copying Wildstar's path system, hehe.
The faction system from EverQuest. Having almost every kill affect your faction standing one way or the other was a game in itself. Killing the wrong guy could make you kill on sight to NPCs who where friendly to you and at the same time help you to become friends with your enemies. I think it is loads better than the static factions in current games.
SWG had the same system but since they are not around anymore I figured it would safe to use it.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Getting skill points each time you level sounds very similar to TSW design if i'm not mistaken, they don't have the spend exp points into skill thing if that was what you were referring to but the everytime you level (and by level I mean fill the bar) it only gives you skill points, you could fill that bar over and over and over again and never see an improvement in your battles if you don't spend your points.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
"Never copied" hmm that could make up for long quote discussions, anyways.
Eq AA system (Alternative Advancement), the best solution to the endgame problematic I am aware of.
To those who doesn't know AA, it was an alternative xp system side by side with the standard levels. Usually when reaching max level players will turn on AA xp, and any xp gained will go to the AA levelling system, and earn AA points. AA points can then be used on skills that further improve Your character.
Example of AA skills coul be, damage mitigation, faster fun speeds, class specifc features, and lots and lots more. When AA was introduced with SoL expansion, there were a few hundrede AA to get and getting all would take serious efford (back then months of playing pretty hardcore). Today with how many expansions are there 15? the amount of AA to possibly get is past the 5000 mark.
Effectively it is a skill system on top of traditional levelling, that deals very effectively with the problem of only improving with gear when reaching max level. Offcourse hardcore players will get max AA, and some AA are not as usuable as others, and Eq has suffered greatly from easymode mechanics introduced making 5000 not that daunting, but still it would probably take several hundrede days /played.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0