Originally posted by Impulse47 Originally posted by skyexileOriginally posted by Impulse47First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd. When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia. I -want- to like and play this game. That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs. So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years. It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles. Is there really no active dodging? I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back? Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills. Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?
If GW2, Tera and DCUO combat is so good, why arnt you playing them?Do you actually care to hear my reasons, or was this rhetorical? I assure you in each case, it had nothing to do with the respective combat systems.
Figured as much, yea at the end of the day content isnt what makes a good MMO, content and community is....will this have it? well, that remains to be seen.
Im getting a little sick of twitch combat. I like classes working together as a unit over who can dodge the right way fastest. IMO this does not bring skill to combat. Class skills and planing when attacks work best with what your teammates are doing really is the best combat IMO. Its real teaming, not he died so he must have sucked. Thats all GW2 twitch has given us.
Yes, the combat in FF XIV sucks and anyone pretending otherwise is a rabid fanboi. It's not even a matter of opinion, nobody could possibly have taste that piss poor; you'd have to be willfully pretending (or fooling yourself) otherwise, kinda like pretending like you like the taste of dirt.
Originally posted by Draemos Yes, the combat in FF XIV sucks and anyone pretending otherwise is a rabid fanboi. It's not even a matter of opinion, nobody could possibly have taste that piss poor; you'd have to be willfully pretending (or fooling yourself) otherwise, kinda like pretending like you like the taste of dirt.
I'm sure you're trolling, but I'm also sure there exists a person who enjoys the taste of dirt.
Originally posted by Draemos Yes, the combat in FF XIV sucks and anyone pretending otherwise is a rabid fanboi. It's not even a matter of opinion, nobody could possibly have taste that piss poor; you'd have to be willfully pretending (or fooling yourself) otherwise, kinda like pretending like you like the taste of dirt.
You are basically discrediting and insulting everyone who has said anything positive about the game. People aren't pretending. They have actually had positive experiences. It's rude of you to think that only your opinion matters and that everyone agrees with you. Why don't you add something constructive to the thread? All you've done is add gasoline to the fire.
Originally posted by Draemos Yes, the combat in FF XIV sucks and anyone pretending otherwise is a rabid fanboi. It's not even a matter of opinion, nobody could possibly have taste that piss poor; you'd have to be willfully pretending (or fooling yourself) otherwise, kinda like pretending like you like the taste of dirt.
You are basically discrediting and insulting everyone who has said anything positive about the game. People aren't pretending. They have actually had positive experiences. It's rude of you to think that only your opinion matters and that everyone agrees with you. Why don't you add something constructive to the thread? All you've done is add gasoline to the fire.
Not at all, you can say positive things about all sorts of stuff in this game... Just not combat. But you keep telling folks how much you like the taste of dirt... I think maybe you'll even convince yourself sooner or later.
The combat feels really weird/slow/not involved to me if i compare it to any other mmo out there, Everything else seems pretty nice so far. Sadly this is enough reason for me to not play FFXIV.
Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.
Me, my brother and my friends found no problems with the combat really. I don't think we are being lenient on the combat its that we found no issues with it, its decent paced and the GCD is insync with the recharge speed of the TP. If they remove GCD on the moves, DDs would run their 1k TP in afew seconds doing nothing but auto attacks for the majority of the fight while having a boat load of hate in the process resulting in said death. This combat is not suppose to be innovating, rather, its about polishing rather then making something new. (Don't reinvent the wheel, but make it better)
The Limit break system is just fine, its not suppose to be the "Ace in the Hole" or the "Trump card", its suppose to help the group depending on the user. The previous FF games( 7,8,9 etc) the limit break wasnt the game changer, rather it helped speed the battle. You don't depend on it nor is it about giving an advantage in the fight. What is the point of challenge if you have an advantage over it, rather its suppose to help you overcome the challenge but the majority of the fight depends on you the player and how you fight (or teamwork if in a group).
There is no reason to attack someone over opinion, if the game is not for you then there are other games that might interest you, but please don't bother others from enjoying their time with the game.
Regardless of what some may try to tell you, the combat is bland and boring, and no, it doesn't get better. And yes, I have a level 42 PLD (Legacy) and have spent time in the dungeons. As you get higher in level you do get a few more options in combat but in terms of combat depth this game is like wading in the kiddie pool.
There are a lot of things I like in this game, but the combat is nowhere on the list.
I have never been a fan of twitch combat. I am interested in the group dynamics on how people work together which was FFXI's strong suit and I am hoping for this in FFXIV. I want games to make people work together not concentrate on dodging here and there. The GCD is a bit long in my opinion but I can live with it as the rest of the game is to my liking.
Regardless of what some may try to tell you, the combat is bland and boring, and no, it doesn't get better. And yes, I have a level 42 PLD (Legacy) and have spent time in the dungeons. As you get higher in level you do get a few more options in combat but in terms of combat depth this game is like wading in the kiddie pool.
There are a lot of things I like in this game, but the combat is nowhere on the list.
While I agree, there is more for me to like then not so I will pick it up......
Hopefully somewhere down the line they will actually add some OOMPH to the combat they can start by adding some decent skillchains, at least for the love of all holy give us individual limit breaks, not much fun when only the DPS should use them because it's the only one worth using........
There is nothing polished when it comes to target-lock system in ff14, games which were released years ago has more advance target lock in them.
also with so few skills available for each class, its literally impossible to control pointed character good or bad. Dont expect to ever hear that you are better healer than anyone else in game. Everyone will be the same. Carried by gears at first but in end game it will be just sad clone wars.
I think 99% of all mmo's have out dated combat. Maybe its time to implement real action combat with complicated combo's to max out dps. I think Blade and SOul is trying to do something like that ?
But each mmo feels the same way, cast fireball cast AoE attack 1 attack 2 attack 3 etc etc. And i must admit that it is becoming cboring when you play mmo's. It doesnt matter how many spells or attacks one has on his spellbar, it at feels the same.
I dont mind tab target tough, at least you know where your attacks / spells land instead of a reticle what can be a pain in large fights to hit the focus target. Specialy when you need to heal ^^
I hope that some mmo's find a middle way where attacks and spells feel realy like a true action rpg
Originally posted by Odinthedark1 its not "Action packed" but the basic mmo combat, nothing wrong with the classic combat either i actually prefer over to hybrid garbage stuff like gw2, neverwinter, etc...but thats my opinion. I love the game so far but the start is so very slow paced i refuse to get into it till OB when we keep our chars....i could go on about all the things i love about the game, but in short i find the classic combat to be fun and have nothing against.
Yeah. It seems some gamers don't have roots in RPG gaming and wouldn't know a good combat system from a hole in a wall.
The combat system in FFXIV is solid and serves its purpose. The combat is a means to an end to get people to work together, but these days gamers want to solo MMO's or for everything to go fast and not be challenging, which is one of the major problems in the genre.
The main thing is FFXIV combat is nowhere near as cumbersome as FFXI's combat was or as slow, it is a sped up version closer to FFXII and this needs to be recognized, half the people here probably are either not Final Fantasy fans and are expecting it to compare to their "other game" when if you knew anything you would know the combat in FFXIV is a step forward for Final Fantasy and any fan should recognize and be thrilled with that. I know I am.
I love the combat system in this as it is both classic and updated and challenging enough to encourage players to help one another.
There is nonthing wrong with Tab Target combat if its done right. Just take a look at Blade and Soul and you can see just how good tab target can be. The problem with this game is that you are just standing still pressing 1,2,3 mob afther every mob. I play Lineage 2 and even it has better tab target combat and that game is 10 years old. Even though I currently play TERA that has action aim I still prefer tab target but this is just way to basic.
I think 99% of all mmo's have out dated combat. Maybe its time to implement real action combat with complicated combo's to max out dps. I think Blade and SOul is trying to do something like that ?
But each mmo feels the same way, cast fireball cast AoE attack 1 attack 2 attack 3 etc etc. And i must admit that it is becoming cboring when you play mmo's. It doesnt matter how many spells or attacks one has on his spellbar, it at feels the same.
I dont mind tab target tough, at least you know where your attacks / spells land instead of a reticle what can be a pain in large fights to hit the focus target. Specialy when you need to heal ^^
I hope that some mmo's find a middle way where attacks and spells feel realy like a true action rpg
I don't think we necessarily need action/twitch based, real-time combat. I'd just like to see more variety. Unfortunately, two of the most unique combat systems in the genre are targeted towards and designed for kids. I'm speaking of course of Wizard101 and Pirate101. Very unique and quite fun, but lacking the depth that you would see from a game targeted at an older audience.
I get used to longer GCDs, part I didn't like. What worries me and I'd like to see in harder dungeons in long fights is TP management. Especially if you're tank and new waves of adds incoming and you sitting at boss with 0 tp, waiting for auto-attack regen...
Oh, btw, talking about action combat in MMOs, you'll find nothing here. There is good action combat, but not found in MMOs. Go play DMC 3 on Hell and Hell mode, there lies true action combat.
TERA and GW2 have some of the most repetitive combat in MMO history (havent played DCUO). not exactly good games to bring up as examples of good MMORPG combat.
No, FFXIV doesnt suddenly morph into a half assed 'action' combat system.
I agree it isnt that strong and wish they could have had some play on ATB, but depth in combat is enormously more important to me than how often you have to move when a mob blinks. i have no idea how much depth is ultimately in FFXIV combat though.
I have to agree, the combat in GW2 gets old in about 5mins. I'm sorry "Active dodging" is a repetitive combat gimmick to keep players busy but not in a good way. In a kind of mindless don't look over here and notice the lack of skills on your hotbar way.
FF XIV does not need the spastic shallow gameplay of a console game thank you.
I think 99% of all mmo's have out dated combat. Maybe its time to implement real action combat with complicated combo's to max out dps. I think Blade and SOul is trying to do something like that ?
But each mmo feels the same way, cast fireball cast AoE attack 1 attack 2 attack 3 etc etc. And i must admit that it is becoming cboring when you play mmo's. It doesnt matter how many spells or attacks one has on his spellbar, it at feels the same.
I dont mind tab target tough, at least you know where your attacks / spells land instead of a reticle what can be a pain in large fights to hit the focus target. Specialy when you need to heal ^^
I hope that some mmo's find a middle way where attacks and spells feel realy like a true action rpg
I don't think we necessarily need action/twitch based, real-time combat. I'd just like to see more variety. Unfortunately, two of the most unique combat systems in the genre are targeted towards and designed for kids. I'm speaking of course of Wizard101 and Pirate101. Very unique and quite fun, but lacking the depth that you would see from a game targeted at an older audience.
In response to Moth, combos have been in the better MMO's since day one, its called a DPS rotation. Games like Vangaurd had DPS rotations that would make you dizzy with their complexity and power.
Your idea of "combos" when used in the context of action MMO's are freaking child's play when compared to the deep skill systems of earlier MMO's.
Hopping around like a dog with ass burn to avoid a charging boss does not constitute complexity, nor does the poor excuse for combos in todays actions MMO, Tera, GW2 etc.
the point of this topic is to point out if target-lock in ff14 is either good or bad.
Lets be fair for the sake of all those who havent been playing closed beta but are considering buying this game.
Combat system in FF14 is really easy to manage and there is not very many skills. Some classes are supposed to use specific skills from the back or from the side of the enemy to deal more damage and Casting classes can try to kite a little bit mobs to avoid getting hit and interrupted. Some oldschool mages however pointed on beta forums that most effective way to play cast classes is just standing still. Kiting doesnt seem to be effective on neither class except archer.
Archer seems to be the only class which you can use to beat stronger targets than it should according to his level or gears. So playing only one class can make you feel like you are outplaying the game.
So conclusion is that this games is for you only if you like very simple combat style which is all about repeating same short pattern of skills.
"he is good geared but he cant play his class well" - said no one ever in FF14 .
It's not the number of skills available. It's what you do with them that counts. Super Mario World had good combat even though you generally had at most one attack available at a time--or two if you count jumping as an attack.
To me, the distinguishing feature of good combat is that what the player does in combat is important, not just what level and gear he came in with.
Anyway I'm getting off-topic here. Someone said the combat involves tactics. That's good. However, I watched a video of the Ifrit battle (maybe a bad example?) and it seems like there is very little to the fight except burn down the adds when they spawn. The boss never really does anything interesting that causes a change in play style.
Ifrit is a lvl 20 fight... It's like saying (sorry for this, but it's what most people will understand) : ''omg deadmines is so not complex, the rest of the game must suck then ! '' -_- ...
Originally posted by Impulse47 First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd. When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia. I -want- to like and play this game. That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs. So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years. It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles. Is there really no active dodging? I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back? Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills. Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?
Old school Final Fantasy combat was even slower...I fail to see the problem.
Anyway I'm getting off-topic here. Someone said the combat involves tactics. That's good. However, I watched a video of the Ifrit battle (maybe a bad example?) and it seems like there is very little to the fight except burn down the adds when they spawn. The boss never really does anything interesting that causes a change in play style.
Ifrit is a lvl 20 fight... It's like saying (sorry for this, but it's what most people will understand) : ''omg deadmines is so not complex, the rest of the game must suck then ! '' -_- ...
Did you played Ascalon Catacombs in GW2? It's level 35 dungeons, and it's more complex than, let's say, Razorfen Kraul in Wow on level 35. But, in the end-game in GW2... Oh, wait...
Comments
Do you actually care to hear my reasons, or was this rhetorical? I assure you in each case, it had nothing to do with the respective combat systems.
Figured as much, yea at the end of the day content isnt what makes a good MMO, content and community is....will this have it? well, that remains to be seen.
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
I'm sure you're trolling, but I'm also sure there exists a person who enjoys the taste of dirt.
You are basically discrediting and insulting everyone who has said anything positive about the game. People aren't pretending. They have actually had positive experiences. It's rude of you to think that only your opinion matters and that everyone agrees with you. Why don't you add something constructive to the thread? All you've done is add gasoline to the fire.
Not at all, you can say positive things about all sorts of stuff in this game... Just not combat. But you keep telling folks how much you like the taste of dirt... I think maybe you'll even convince yourself sooner or later.
The combat feels really weird/slow/not involved to me if i compare it to any other mmo out there, Everything else seems pretty nice so far. Sadly this is enough reason for me to not play FFXIV.
Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.
Me, my brother and my friends found no problems with the combat really. I don't think we are being lenient on the combat its that we found no issues with it, its decent paced and the GCD is insync with the recharge speed of the TP. If they remove GCD on the moves, DDs would run their 1k TP in afew seconds doing nothing but auto attacks for the majority of the fight while having a boat load of hate in the process resulting in said death. This combat is not suppose to be innovating, rather, its about polishing rather then making something new. (Don't reinvent the wheel, but make it better)
The Limit break system is just fine, its not suppose to be the "Ace in the Hole" or the "Trump card", its suppose to help the group depending on the user. The previous FF games( 7,8,9 etc) the limit break wasnt the game changer, rather it helped speed the battle. You don't depend on it nor is it about giving an advantage in the fight. What is the point of challenge if you have an advantage over it, rather its suppose to help you overcome the challenge but the majority of the fight depends on you the player and how you fight (or teamwork if in a group).
There is no reason to attack someone over opinion, if the game is not for you then there are other games that might interest you, but please don't bother others from enjoying their time with the game.
Regardless of what some may try to tell you, the combat is bland and boring, and no, it doesn't get better. And yes, I have a level 42 PLD (Legacy) and have spent time in the dungeons. As you get higher in level you do get a few more options in combat but in terms of combat depth this game is like wading in the kiddie pool.
There are a lot of things I like in this game, but the combat is nowhere on the list.
While I agree, there is more for me to like then not so I will pick it up......
Hopefully somewhere down the line they will actually add some OOMPH to the combat they can start by adding some decent skillchains, at least for the love of all holy give us individual limit breaks, not much fun when only the DPS should use them because it's the only one worth using........
There is nothing polished when it comes to target-lock system in ff14, games which were released years ago has more advance target lock in them.
also with so few skills available for each class, its literally impossible to control pointed character good or bad. Dont expect to ever hear that you are better healer than anyone else in game. Everyone will be the same. Carried by gears at first but in end game it will be just sad clone wars.
I think 99% of all mmo's have out dated combat.
Maybe its time to implement real action combat with complicated combo's to max out dps.
I think Blade and SOul is trying to do something like that ?
But each mmo feels the same way, cast fireball cast AoE attack 1 attack 2 attack 3 etc etc.
And i must admit that it is becoming cboring when you play mmo's.
It doesnt matter how many spells or attacks one has on his spellbar, it at feels the same.
I dont mind tab target tough, at least you know where your attacks / spells land instead of a reticle what can be a pain in large fights to hit the focus target.
Specialy when you need to heal ^^
I hope that some mmo's find a middle way where attacks and spells feel realy like a true action rpg
Yeah. It seems some gamers don't have roots in RPG gaming and wouldn't know a good combat system from a hole in a wall.
The combat system in FFXIV is solid and serves its purpose. The combat is a means to an end to get people to work together, but these days gamers want to solo MMO's or for everything to go fast and not be challenging, which is one of the major problems in the genre.
The main thing is FFXIV combat is nowhere near as cumbersome as FFXI's combat was or as slow, it is a sped up version closer to FFXII and this needs to be recognized, half the people here probably are either not Final Fantasy fans and are expecting it to compare to their "other game" when if you knew anything you would know the combat in FFXIV is a step forward for Final Fantasy and any fan should recognize and be thrilled with that. I know I am.
I love the combat system in this as it is both classic and updated and challenging enough to encourage players to help one another.
I don't think we necessarily need action/twitch based, real-time combat. I'd just like to see more variety. Unfortunately, two of the most unique combat systems in the genre are targeted towards and designed for kids. I'm speaking of course of Wizard101 and Pirate101. Very unique and quite fun, but lacking the depth that you would see from a game targeted at an older audience.
I get used to longer GCDs, part I didn't like. What worries me and I'd like to see in harder dungeons in long fights is TP management. Especially if you're tank and new waves of adds incoming and you sitting at boss with 0 tp, waiting for auto-attack regen...
Oh, btw, talking about action combat in MMOs, you'll find nothing here. There is good action combat, but not found in MMOs. Go play DMC 3 on Hell and Hell mode, there lies true action combat.
I have to agree, the combat in GW2 gets old in about 5mins. I'm sorry "Active dodging" is a repetitive combat gimmick to keep players busy but not in a good way. In a kind of mindless don't look over here and notice the lack of skills on your hotbar way.
FF XIV does not need the spastic shallow gameplay of a console game thank you.
In response to Moth, combos have been in the better MMO's since day one, its called a DPS rotation. Games like Vangaurd had DPS rotations that would make you dizzy with their complexity and power.
Your idea of "combos" when used in the context of action MMO's are freaking child's play when compared to the deep skill systems of earlier MMO's.
Hopping around like a dog with ass burn to avoid a charging boss does not constitute complexity, nor does the poor excuse for combos in todays actions MMO, Tera, GW2 etc.
the point of this topic is to point out if target-lock in ff14 is either good or bad.
Lets be fair for the sake of all those who havent been playing closed beta but are considering buying this game.
Combat system in FF14 is really easy to manage and there is not very many skills. Some classes are supposed to use specific skills from the back or from the side of the enemy to deal more damage and Casting classes can try to kite a little bit mobs to avoid getting hit and interrupted. Some oldschool mages however pointed on beta forums that most effective way to play cast classes is just standing still. Kiting doesnt seem to be effective on neither class except archer.
Archer seems to be the only class which you can use to beat stronger targets than it should according to his level or gears. So playing only one class can make you feel like you are outplaying the game.
So conclusion is that this games is for you only if you like very simple combat style which is all about repeating same short pattern of skills.
"he is good geared but he cant play his class well" - said no one ever in FF14 .
It's not the number of skills available. It's what you do with them that counts. Super Mario World had good combat even though you generally had at most one attack available at a time--or two if you count jumping as an attack.
To me, the distinguishing feature of good combat is that what the player does in combat is important, not just what level and gear he came in with.
Ifrit is a lvl 20 fight... It's like saying (sorry for this, but it's what most people will understand) : ''omg deadmines is so not complex, the rest of the game must suck then ! '' -_- ...
Old school Final Fantasy combat was even slower...I fail to see the problem.
Did you played Ascalon Catacombs in GW2? It's level 35 dungeons, and it's more complex than, let's say, Razorfen Kraul in Wow on level 35. But, in the end-game in GW2... Oh, wait...