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I have a simple question

Perhaps the supporters can provide an adequate answer to this interesting yet puzzling question.

Why is it that a game such as Lineage2 for example could allow pre order people into beta as one of the perks of ordering and still allow you to cancel your order if your so inclined to do so after playing what you are about to purchase while on the other hand SoG (AKA DnL) grants no such thing to SoG orders and to top it all off bills you upon entering the game and does not provide any kind of refund should you find the product lacking in any way.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Let me sit a while and contemplate this interesting puzzle.

Comments

  • bl1ndbl1nd Member Posts: 102

    First ur question is totally stupid by the fact that 500k $ is nothing for them so they dont care about that

    Second they are risking releasing a prelude with half of content, they gotta be sure their game is REALLY good

    And their pioneer offer cant be compared to other preorders because it was aimed at the hardcore fans of DnL, there is gonna be more preorders in some months

    It sounds to me like u didnt have any money to pay and ur just jealous....

  • snaggletoothsnaggletooth Member Posts: 23
    I am still waiting for an answer.
  • bl1ndbl1nd Member Posts: 102

    Refund? man u ever think about what ur writing? thats like going to a movie and after u see it asking for a refund....

    If u taste it u gotta pay it, sounds totally fair to me

    If u dont log in they said u can ask for a refund.....

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321

    I think the answer is fairly obvious. After almost 4 years of development they were still no closer to release than they were 3 years ago and broke or almost so. Investment bankers considered them a bad risk due to their lack of progress and would not loan them any more money. So they came up with a scheme to raise some capitol.

    As far as the no refund goes, if I had pre ordered and SoG turns out to be a turkey I would challenge the charge with my credit card company since it was DnL supposedly that you were pre ordering not SoG. The worst thing that would happen is they would say no, but I would bet most card companies would refund your money. I would do it ASAP though and not wait until next year.

    Yeah I know 60 bucks is nothing right fanboys? You spend more than that on cat litter every day. But if I don't care for being ripped off for sixty cents let alone sixty dollars.

     

    I miss DAoC

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321

    dupe post sorry

    I miss DAoC

  • cHAWEcHAWE Member Posts: 8



    Originally posted by snaggletooth

    Perhaps the supporters can provide an adequate answer to this interesting yet puzzling question.
    Why is it that a game such as Lineage2 for example could allow pre order people into beta as one of the perks of ordering and still allow you to cancel your order if your so inclined to do so after playing what you are about to purchase while on the other hand SoG (AKA DnL) grants no such thing to SoG orders and to top it all off bills you upon entering the game and does not provide any kind of refund should you find the product lacking in any way.
    HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
    Let me sit a while and contemplate this interesting puzzle.


     

    I saw the same post in the official site....

    U dont have to preorder if u dont want.....

    When u complete the puzzle just told us what u discover ;P

    BECOUSE I CAN

  • bl1ndbl1nd Member Posts: 102


    Originally posted by Jackdog
    I think the answer is fairly obvious. After almost 4 years of development they were still no closer to release than they were 3 years ago and broke or almost so. Investment bankers considered them a bad risk due to their lack of progress and would not loan them any more money. So they came up with a scheme to raise some capitol.
    As far as the no refund goes, if I had pre ordered and SoG turns out to be a turkey I would challenge the charge with my credit card company since it was DnL supposedly that you were pre ordering not SoG. The worst thing that would happen is they would say no, but I would bet most card companies would refund your money. I would do it ASAP though and not wait until next year.
    Yeah I know 60 bucks is nothing right fanboys? You spend more than that on cat litter every day. But if I don't care for being ripped off for sixty cents let alone sixty dollars.

    Oh god another pathetic person that dont realise they are wasting time in something they dont like....

    Man u dont like it right? then what are u doing here?

    Bank risk? u ppl like to talk serious bs without any backup, well thats what happens when u have kids know it all in a forum

    Now the preorders is a way to raise capitol god u ppl like to talk so much bs.... thats why they limited it right? if they wanted to raise money they could made 20000 preorders avalaible, they sould 8881 in 2 days

  • snaggletoothsnaggletooth Member Posts: 23

    I am still waiting for a LOGICAL answer as to why they did not allow people to play test first before billing. Or is the only logical answer that they were afraid of losing 90% of those orders in the end?

    If the developers are so scared of losing those orders than you know exactly what DnL is.

    Actions speak louder than words.

  • shaeshae Member Posts: 2,509



    Originally posted by snaggletooth

    I am still waiting for a LOGICAL answer as to why they did not allow people to play test first before billing. Or is the only logical answer that they were afraid of losing 90% of those orders in the end?
    If the developers are so scared of losing those orders than you know exactly what DnL is.
    Actions speak louder than words.



    Here is your logical answer. It was a pure marketing decision, nothing more and nothing less.

    Farlan Entertainment and NP Cube knew they had to push back the release date again, which would be the third time around, they also know they have a very weak product as it stands right now so they needed a  plan that could manage to bring in some numbers, hold some people until release time and continue to make certain that no big amount of information was released about the actual state of the game.

    So in comes the SoG, Pre-Order to DnL idea. It's actually quite genious when you think about it.

    - They've managed to appease most of the fans by offering SoG, which abviously wasn't planned but works well. Not only they do not have to own up to pushing the release date back again but they get to say things like "A first in MMO history" and "Never before seen in the MMO industry".

    - They also get a very solid excuse as to the state of the game, already they have members of the community saying things like "SoG will not be the full game, it's just a sample and a way to affect the future of the game world". I mean seriously, why come up with an excuse for a lack of content when your community will do it for you.

    - They also get to keep the NDA up on the actual beta test for the official DnL release date, so of course information about a weak product will be a little more controled.

    - And then of course, there's the numbers. MMO players are a fickle bunch,  pushing the game back again would have been really bad for the future numbers, this way not only can they try to save some community numbers but they can also start selling pre-orders, create hype and start having a minimal amount of revenue streaming in.

    There you have it, a very logical way of looking at it. It's all about damage control, numbers and taking advantage of the community whatever way you can. In other words, it's what passes as marketing in the MMO world.

    The absolute best thing about all of this though, is that the community has fallen for it hand over fist, which I think is quite hillarious considering how both Farlan and NP Cube have treated them over the last 4 years.

    I just hope they can manage to pull off at least half of what they said they would for all those people that have pre-ordered.

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by shae
    Originally posted by snaggletooth
    I am still waiting for a LOGICAL answer as to why they did not allow people to play test first before billing. Or is the only logical answer that they were afraid of losing 90% of those orders in the end?
    If the developers are so scared of losing those orders than you know exactly what DnL is.
    Actions speak louder than words.
    Here is your logical answer. It was a pure marketing decision, nothing more and nothing less.
    Farlan Entertainment and NP Cube knew they had to push back the release date again, which would be the third time around, they also know they have a very weak product as it stands right now so they needed a plan that could manage to bring in some numbers, hold some people until release time and continue to make certain that no big amount of information was released about the actual state of the game.
    So in comes the SoG, Pre-Order to DnL idea. It's actually quite genious when you think about it.
    - They've managed to appease most of the fans by offering SoG, which abviously wasn't planned but works well. Not only they do not have to own up to pushing the release date back again but they get to say things like "A first in MMO history" and "Never before seen in the MMO industry".
    - They also get a very solid excuse as to the state of the game, already they have members of the community saying things like "SoG will not be the full game, it's just a sample and a way to affect the future of the game world". I mean seriously, why come up with an excuse for a lack of content when your community will do it for you.
    - They also get to keep the NDA up on the actual beta test for the official DnL release date, so of course information about a weak product will be a little more controled.
    - And then of course, there's the numbers. MMO players are a fickle bunch, pushing the game back again would have been really bad for the future numbers, this way not only can they try to save some community numbers but they can also start selling pre-orders, create hype and start having a minimal amount of revenue streaming in.
    There you have it, a very logical way of looking at it. It's all about damage control, numbers and taking advantage of the community whatever way you can. In other words, it's what passes as marketing in the MMO world.
    The absolute best thing about all of this though, is that the community has fallen for it hand over fist, which I think is quite hillarious considering how both Farlan and NP Cube have treated them over the last 4 years.
    I just hope they can manage to pull off at least half of what they said they would for all those people that have pre-ordered.


    Well said, and don't forget they also created demand and hype by releasing a limited number for the pioneer deal or whatever it is. A very effective x-mas time trick to create demand.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • snaggletoothsnaggletooth Member Posts: 23

    I thought it was just because they ran out of money.

    " pushing the game back again would have been really bad for the future numbers"

    But they are pushing the game back again. Not only are they pushing it back again 6 months but also charging for it at the same time.  lol

    and their NDA means nothing because SoG is DnL and everyone who downloads DnL or whatever they call it on Dec 8'th will be telling everyone it's a load if it is which it most likely is.

    So in reality their plan is about as stupid as can be because once those 8,000 monkies wise up and see they just paid $60 for an exact duplicate of what everyone else is playing for free on Dec 8'th they will have just blown their own brains out.

  • shaeshae Member Posts: 2,509




    Originally posted by Fadeus

    Well said, and don't forget they also created demand and hype by releasing a limited number for the pioneer deal or whatever it is. A very effective x-mas time trick to create demand.




    Yup, the limited numbers part was a favorite of mine too, if that doesn't give away what their dong, I just don't know what else to say. I also like the fact that by limiting the numbers their also managing to stay away from the huge numbers these servers are going to get hit with on factual release date, a side bonus I'm sure but still...
  • shaeshae Member Posts: 2,509



    Originally posted by snaggletooth

    I thought it was just because they ran out of money.
    Quite honestly, the numbers from pre-orders would not be enough to surplus any developement team cost for the next 6 months. Certainly the numbers don't hurt, but it's doubtfull their financial situation is that critical, or else they would pull a full release for monthly subs.
    " pushing the game back again would have been really bad for the future numbers"
    But they are pushing the game back again. Not only are they pushing it back again 6 months but also charging for it at the same time.  lol
    Yes they are pushing the release of DnL back, exactly like I said but my point was that with this SoG move, they've managed to all but scave away from the responsibilities of outright not releasing. And they aren't really charging for you waiting, you had the option to purchase a beta and get priority into SoG and more to go long with it but you also try to get into SoG for free come it's Dec. release time.
    and their NDA means nothing because SoG is DnL and everyone who downloads DnL or whatever they call it on Dec 8'th will be telling everyone it's a load if it is which it most likely is.
    And that's just outright wrong, the NDA is still very much so in tact and serving a purose. DnL is not SoG, I even said this in my reply, they already have the community spouting this (did you even read my reply ?). They have said many times over that SoG is a pre-quel, those that are still involved in Beta are still forced onto the NDA, make what you wish of that but it's pretty obvious from where I'm standing.
    So in reality their plan is about as stupid as can be because once those 8,000 monkies wise up and see they just paid $60 for an exact duplicate of what everyone else is playing for free on Dec 8'th they will have just blown their own brains out.



    The plan being stupid, well I'd argue with that as well. They've done what they've set out to do, they've pulled the wool over many of the community's eyes, and they've managed to keep people interested, one heck of a marketing strategy if you ask me.
  • snaggletoothsnaggletooth Member Posts: 23

    "Quite honestly, the numbers from pre-orders would not be enough to surplus any developement team cost for the next 6 months.

    they dont have a team of anymore than 15 people..and not high paid pro's either.. $500,000 is way more than enough for 6 months of development.

    "but it's doubtfull their financial situation is that critical, or else they would pull a full release for monthly subs.""

    than what exactly was the point of charging people $60 in the first place if they didn't need any money? They could have simply let people into the beta for free like they are doing on Dec 8'th to calm down the fans. And if they didn't need the cash than they wouldnt have cared about letting people test first than order. Why are they charging people as soon as they log in and not giving any refunds? If that doesnt spell "we need money" than I don't know what does.

    they had no more cash so they had to get it from somewhere..the fact they had to take it from the fans just shows how bad off they really are..

  • JimiKJimiK Member UncommonPosts: 22

    LOL LMAO & ROFL!! U guys are hilarious!

    On the 8th you will all be in line to get a free acct - screaming and kicking for one I bet... ::::02::

    Good luck to you is what I say - and Im so happy none of u whiners are among the 8881.

    - J

  • snaggletoothsnaggletooth Member Posts: 23

    "On the 8th you will all be in line to get a free acct "

    the only reason anyone will be getting it on the 8'th is for two reasons.

    1. it's free.

    2. just like with Shadowbane -- Everyone likes seeing a train wreck happen. It's just human nature.

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by snaggletooth
    "Quite honestly, the numbers from pre-orders would not be enough to surplus any developement team cost for the next 6 months.
    they dont have a team of anymore than 15 people..and not high paid pro's either.. $500,000 is way more than enough for 6 months of development.
    "but it's doubtfull their financial situation is that critical, or else they would pull a full release for monthly subs.""
    than what exactly was the point of charging people $60 in the first place if they didn't need any money? They could have simply let people into the beta for free like they are doing on Dec 8'th to calm down the fans. And if they didn't need the cash than they wouldnt have cared about letting people test first than order. Why are they charging people as soon as they log in and not giving any refunds? If that doesnt spell "we need money" than I don't know what does.
    they had no more cash so they had to get it from somewhere..the fact they had to take it from the fans just shows how bad off they really are..

    If you think salaries are the largest or only expense to any company you are seriously mistaken.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916

    Well, if this marketing exercise was a desperate attempt to keep the game development on the financial rails, then I hope my $60 will help to keep them going image

    I'm all for supporting the smaller game developers. That's where the really good games come from, not from the big corporate outfits that are trying to make games that are "all things to everyone" in a deluded attempt to capture 90% of the MMO playerbase.

    The problem is that game development is complex and costly, and the financial backers and shareholders in the development companies want big returns, and fast, and they don't like risks.

    But I'm happy to risk a few bucks on something that may be great fun, especially if me and others like me put our money where our mouth is and hopefully make that fun a possibility.

  • JimiKJimiK Member UncommonPosts: 22

    Yea keep tellin yourself that Snaggle - Ill see you on the 8th and u can google at my drake ::::03::


    - J

  • shaeshae Member Posts: 2,509



    Originally posted by snaggletooth

    "Quite honestly, the numbers from pre-orders would not be enough to surplus any developement team cost for the next 6 months.
    they dont have a team of anymore than 15 people..and not high paid pro's either.. $500,000 is way more than enough for 6 months of development.
    "but it's doubtfull their financial situation is that critical, or else they would pull a full release for monthly subs.""
    than what exactly was the point of charging people $60 in the first place if they didn't need any money? They could have simply let people into the beta for free like they are doing on Dec 8'th to calm down the fans. And if they didn't need the cash than they wouldnt have cared about letting people test first than order. Why are they charging people as soon as they log in and not giving any refunds? If that doesnt spell "we need money" than I don't know what does.
    they had no more cash so they had to get it from somewhere..the fact they had to take it from the fans just shows how bad off they really are..



    The problem is that now your no loner looking at common sense and logic, something for which you requested earlier, and you are letting your personal feelings regarding the issues with DnL prevent you from actually thinking out a reponse instead of taking a factual position.

    Fact is that no one knows the financial position of either Farlan or NP Cube, if you then why did you pose the question in the first place since you know so much more then everyone else ? Fact is, as I said earlier, I'm sure the cash influx they received through pre-order is usefull but it's not what a company would do if they were completely out of money for the project, it just doesn't make any sense.

    Anyways, my personal oppinion, there is alot of bad reasons why they did what they did but I doubt heavily money was the primary reason but thats why it's called an oppinion, I could certanly be wrong.

  • sunisuni Member Posts: 59



    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    Well, if this marketing exercise was a desperate attempt to keep the game development on the financial rails, then I hope my $60 will help to keep them going image
    I'm all for supporting the smaller game developers. That's where the really good games come from, not from the big corporate outfits that are trying to make games that are "all things to everyone" in a deluded attempt to capture 90% of the MMO playerbase.
    The problem is that game development is complex and costly, and the financial backers and shareholders in the development companies want big returns, and fast, and they don't like risks.
    But I'm happy to risk a few bucks on something that may be great fun, especially if me and others like me put our money where our mouth is and hopefully make that fun a possibility.



    I totally agree... I tried to pre-pay (order) but couldn't due to a series of mishaps that caused me to miss out... hehe, maybe I should bash the dev's and the game and clickandbuy.com and everybody else like the rest of the haters do...! Believe me, if I wrote my story here it would sound just as whiney as everybody elses sad tale, especially if I added my opinions regarding clickandbuy.com... image

    Any dunce has to know the game will have flaws, but by golly, I like what has been presented so far and I sure hope the dev's are able to pull it off, even if it takes a few more years... It is not like my life is going to come to an end because of this online game...  image

  • ronan32ronan32 Member Posts: 1,418



    Originally posted by Jackdog

    I think the answer is fairly obvious. After almost 4 years of development they were still no closer to release than they were 3 years ago and broke or almost so. Investment bankers considered them a bad risk due to their lack of progress and would not loan them any more money. So they came up with a scheme to raise some capitol.
    As far as the no refund goes, if I had pre ordered and SoG turns out to be a turkey I would challenge the charge with my credit card company since it was DnL supposedly that you were pre ordering not SoG. The worst thing that would happen is they would say no, but I would bet most card companies would refund your money. I would do it ASAP though and not wait until next year.
    Yeah I know 60 bucks is nothing right fanboys? You spend more than that on cat litter every day. But if I don't care for being ripped off for sixty cents let alone sixty dollars.
     



    you have to be the biggest fanboy i know, you are always on here bad mouthing the game, if you dont like the game why bother writing, because you are a fanboy, and a miserable bastard
  • snaggletoothsnaggletooth Member Posts: 23

    shae -- you lack commen sense. Thats your problem. All you need to do is read between the lines. It's all right there most of the time.

    "Yeah I know 60 bucks is nothing right fanboys? You spend more than that on cat litter every day."

    haha

This discussion has been closed.