No one said anything about forced grouping, just encouraged grouping, the way it was back in early DAoC. Soloing is always an option, its just the slower option.
I agree with Cirin (sp), I think many of you are missing the point. I played Everquest for 4+years and it was my first experience in an MMO, like it was for so many.
There wasn't a lot of information online that you could just access some wiki, mmorpg or curse gaming and ect. So what did you do, you chatted all the time. You wanted to sell something, you sat in that damn tunnel for 3hrs and while you waited in between your " WTS blah blah" you chatted it up.
I believe its an experience that cant be repeated unless something is so groundbreaking that it requires us to want to chat it up, but most wont. We'll just google or bing it.
The more you make combat require more of your attention the less time you'll have to chat it up, ever remember a really good Bard chatting much. Heck no he was too busy twisting. Imagine the whole group doing the same thing, who can chat.
Something is generally thought to be awesome when you do it or see it for the first time. You just arent going to get that same experience and/or feeling again. Not only that, think of the type of players and age groups that played EQ back then and think about the mindset of the new generation of MMO players. Its not the same. So many things are different.
Any way, I wish we could get that feeling we had back then. It would require a company to make a niche game for a select few players. I think there is room for niche games for different play styles. I hate that every PvE MMO thinks they have to be PvP also. I would gather to guess most investors don't want to invest in a niche game, would you?
So tell me...how do you feel combat in a "sandbox" would be different than that in a "themepark"? You clearly somehow think that just tossing out "themepark" as a slander means something...prove it.
Sandbox means UGC. Always has, always will. Regardless of how hard people try to act like Themepark and Sandbox are the same.
Your reason to group in Sandbox is circumstantial as opposed to task orientated Themepark. There's no failure to get that one thing done. A proper Sandbox has a bevy of options always available to you that will allow you to experience and grow.
Think buffet vs. ordering off the menu.
FYI
I never tossed Themepark as a slander. I'm merely pointing out flaws in your argument by comparing how one set of games do it vs. how EQ Next says they're challenging that idea. I actually like Themeparks, but find it hilarious the amount of recent reinterpretations the term Sandbox has taken.
How does combat factor in the discussion? It's a separate issue and can be handled many different ways in an MMO separate of PVP or PVE, Themepark or Sandbox.
No, the answer is to make the whole game dynamic. Not just quests. not just grinding, and quests have to remain in single and group form. But for the whole game to be dynamic means everything has to be persistent and have lasting world changes. With semi to permanent changes, I don't know how many players could live with that though.
-Content is what players and enemy npcs both have:
1.Each side has their own motives and will constantly push to meet those goals. Not through story or cutscenes but actual fights.
2.There needs to be single player goals/quests with clear markers for players and npcs. This is to give players and npcs smaller goals in conjunction to the world arch.
3.There needs to be clearly defined battle class roles. I know people always say crap about the trinity. But strict roles encourage player socialization and synergy.
4. If a settlement of fort is destroyed rather than just sieged. It is gone until rebuilt. There would have to be at least one safe city/region that can never be destroyed so the game doesn't come to a possible standstill.
Some examples:
1.If you die during a quest or event without a raise. You raise up at your last homepoint but you lost the chance at advancement for that quest or event unless it repeats later on but still keep whatever you earned before you died. The same applies to npcs, if they get killed no monster respawns to replace them. That's one less you or them that partakes in that battle.
2.If there is an invasion on a settlement by the enemy and you lose. You can't re-enter that settlement until your side wins it back no matter how long it takes. Same applies to the npc enemies.
3.Npc enemies fight for resources just as the player side does and compete against us in the markets. That resource could be a gear drop from one of us players that the enemies covet.(I don't know if losing a gear you worked hard for would be taking it too far, people might cry.)
Basically there would never be a safe spot. Ours and our enemies best chance for progression would be forming bonds with our or their allies. There would be deals between both sides, and we will never know if that deal is more harmful or good until we see the preceding effects. It would be like a quasi PvE/PvP instead of us versus them or us vs us always. Players and npcs would work on both sides. No clear evil vs good.
I agree with Cirin (sp), I think many of you are missing the point. I played Everquest for 4+years and it was my first experience in an MMO, like it was for so many.
There wasn't a lot of information online that you could just access some wiki, mmorpg or curse gaming and ect. So what did you do, you chatted all the time. You wanted to sell something, you sat in that damn tunnel for 3hrs and while you waited in between your " WTS blah blah" you chatted it up.
I believe its an experience that cant be repeated unless something is so groundbreaking that it requires us to want to chat it up, but most wont. We'll just google or bing it.
The more you make combat require more of your attention the less time you'll have to chat it up, ever remember a really good Bard chatting much. Heck no he was too busy twisting. Imagine the whole group doing the same thing, who can chat.
Something is generally thought to be awesome when you do it or see it for the first time. You just arent going to get that same experience and/or feeling again. Not only that, think of the type of players and age groups that played EQ back then and think about the mindset of the new generation of MMO players. Its not the same. So many things are different.
Any way, I wish we could get that feeling we had back then. It would require a company to make a niche game for a select few players. I think there is room for niche games for different play styles. I hate that every PvE MMO thinks they have to be PvP also. I would gather to guess most investors don't want to invest in a niche game, would you?
How do you look up the answers to a world based off UGC?
something that's ever changing by the player base?
so if you are not going to kill things in mass, and if you are not going to follow some kind of plot.
. . . .then what are you going to do?
kill lots of things and mine lots of thing so you can make more things to kill even more things and mine even more things.
don't get me wrong I like minecraft, but without some kind of content your just going in circle of a different nature but going in circles still none the less.
The point of a sandbox game is essentially, they give you the sandbox. You play in it and are only limited by the toys that are provided.
So basically you can choose to go be an explorer, or maybe the town alchemist, perhaps a well known chef that people seek out and pay to make fantastic buff foods and drinks. You could be a notorious bandit that hides in waiting for it to get dark and ambush travelers and steal from them or kill them. Maybe you want to make friends with the village of npc's you found. Only one will talk to you now and you noticed when you killed a savage creature near the village it raised faction with the npc's of that village. Or maybe you want to be a powerful leader of a large guild and set out to gather forces and take on other guilds from far away or take on some huge Mountain Giants. The world is what you make of it in a sandbox. You could be a furniture maker and a home owner. Perhaps an animal tamer and seller of mounts or pets you tamed to other players. These sorts of things are all possible in a good sandbox with the right tools. It's just up to the Devs how fun they want to make things or what direction they want to go with it all..
so if you are not going to kill things in mass, and if you are not going to follow some kind of plot.
. . . .then what are you going to do?
kill lots of things and mine lots of thing so you can make more things to kill even more things and mine even more things.
don't get me wrong I like minecraft, but without some kind of content your just going in circle of a different nature but going in circles still none the less.
The point of a sandbox game is essentially, they give you the sandbox. You play in it and are only limited by the toys that are provided.
So basically you can choose to go be an explorer, or maybe the town alchemist, perhaps a well known chef that people seek out and pay to make fantastic buff foods and drinks. You could be a notorious bandit that hides in waiting for it to get dark and ambush travelers and steal from them or kill them. Maybe you want to make friends with the village of npc's you found. Only one will talk to you now and you noticed when you killed a savage creature near the village it raised faction with the npc's of that village. Or maybe you want to be a powerful leader of a large guild and set out to gather forces and take on other guilds from far away or take on some huge Mountain Giants. The world is what you make of it in a sandbox. You could be a furniture maker and a home owner. Perhaps an animal tamer and seller of mounts or pets you tamed to other players. These sorts of things are all possible in a good sandbox with the right tools. It's just up to the Devs how fun they want to make things or what direction they want to go with it all..
I guess some people like to grind mobs all day for XP while others like to play a game that involves killing some rats for poor old Farmer Bob.
You're doing the same thing, but somehow, the grinder crowd seem to think their way is "better". Too bad the rest of the world disagrees.
Your blatant trolling aside, one activity is more in line with this genre. MMO. Not singleplayer half assed fetch quest simulator, MMORPG. Massively multiplayer. Meaning, playing together, something quest grinding discourages. One is social and has freedom. One is a huge resource drain to try to dress up the same activity, and act as if the players are retarded.
So...MMO means group-based? Wow, guess you define the genre?
MMO's have EVOLVED (google can explain that one), also many of us that started with EQ have families, careers, other hobbies, etc.. It would be in Sony's best interest to cater to both solo and group content. I completely agree that the group content should be more rewarding, though, numerically or gear-wise.
Yep they have evolved. That is why we keep doing this way that you described as evolved, and games keep failing. I know my way is so primitive, and the only reason that I enjoyed it then was because I didn't know any better. I know the only reason I remember having fun doing things that way is because of some rose tinted glasses feeding my nostalgia.
BUT
What if my nostalgia isn't due to rose tinted glasses? What if I really did have fun when I wasn't being dragged around on a leash? What if grouping up, and socializing with other players were what really made the killing fun? This standard that the genre has "evolved" into has proven time and time again that it doesn't work as game after game that follows it fails. How about for once we try it the way we are suggesting, and make MMO's actually mean interacting with and depending on the other players again instead of continuing to run around beside them with little to no interaction?
Kill quests should be like Legends and Lores quests, with a nice bonus to numbers of Orcs killed etc. I had so much fun completing those L&L quests, and they never felt like quests even though they were, we just killed just to kill, and was fun when we got a piece we needed
I forget what Rifts new quest things are called, where it triggers when you kill a mob, those are solid too, cause its completed in the field, I just need to feel more of a reward though, building towards something.
Given the direction PS2 has taken - after lots of early talk from the devs about all these new ideas they were going to go with.. SOE has made it more and more generic - I'm skeptical EQN will be any different.
There will be talk about no "kill 10 rats quests" - yet you'll strangely discover that every 10 rats you kill, you get bonus xp 5 times per day... and so forth.
Same old stuff - repackaged in slightly different paper.
There will be talk about no "kill 10 rats quests" - yet you'll strangely discover that every 10 rats you kill, you get bonus xp 5 times per day...
Maybe they'll put it in a heart and not tell you to do it, you just get the suggestion when you enter the zone. I hear that's an innovative way to do it.
Yup. They said that things like "Go kill 10 rats" is not fun and they want to stay away from that kind of stuff. I can easily see them doing away with quest journal stuff all together. Just making quests "happen" in the real world as players explore. No turn in NPCs, no fetch me this, fetch me that. Just playing a living, cinematic world.
Skyrim proved that free roaming game play has the power to attract a much larger audience of players. I have friends who never touched an RPG before in their life, hell barely any video games in general outside of a few Madden or Call of Duty games, and they'd say "Oh man you really got to play this game, it's so awesome!" and I'm sitting there expecting them to tell me all about some new racing or sports game, and then they say "Skyrim!!!" "You can do whatever you want, and the combat is fun and blah blah blah". Of course, me being super gamer guy I was already privy to TES at this stage lol.
Point is, if you make a great world, and say "Be free! Go do something fun today!" you're going to draw quite a large crowd and be remembered well.
SOE created one of the most amazing games of all time (EQ) and if any of the mmo journalists who've seen the game are any indication, we're in for a real treat August 2nd.
I believe maybe you are too swayed by hype. He said he doesn't like the kill 10 rats model.
well lots of developers said that. Even Anet said that with GW2. But in reality, that's not avoidable unless the game has no combat and no missions. Everything that does has a kill x of y style to it or some traditional method. Some mask it better than others, but people with critical eye can see through that mask.
Well i don't mind quests but i do mind quests that give you XP and potions ( potions shouldn't even be in game unless player made ) But why not have the quest giver say " oh i hear there is a monster in so and so cave some where in westcommon lands that may drop a clue to where he hides his stash of goods" to get to that mob would take fighting to a spot and then pulling and camping until you killed the ph a few times before he spawned. Then if there was a few in group you would have to rinse repeat. Them type of quests gave exp,loot and most importantly down time to chat inbetween spawns. They usually called for a well balanced group also as spawns would be random and may get nasty spots where there was a few in camp.
I want the fear factor of getting to a camp and then trying to hold the camp and if you wiped you knew you had to get back there first to get your corpses then hopefully before somebody else took the camp.
Seriously all this game has to do is be SEMI-Intelligent and let the players dictate gameplay in a non-linear fashion, give the players the world and set them out to discover its vast uncharted mysteries.
Thats it, just make this game dangerous and exciting, make is fun but intelligent, thats it. Everyone MMO since WoW has been too arcady, and too linear, too many quest markers everywhere. All EQN needs to do is put the adventure back in MMO's and it will be remembered for years to come.
I AM NOT talking Sandbox here, but rather that quests need to be progressive and explorative, not linear and straight forward. Why not give us the option to type in our responses? Seriously everyone has their opinions but voiceovers honestly have no current place in MMO's. Give us quest text and let the player make the story or at least give us a chance to roleplay off yours!
Simple stuff EQN, Dont Blow it up!
This ------------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.
The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...
100% agree with the OP. I don't even have anything to add, just wanna show some support for the idea that we might get a game that we play and not one where they tell us how to play.
so if you are not going to kill things in mass, and if you are not going to follow some kind of plot.
. . . .then what are you going to do?
kill lots of things and mine lots of thing so you can make more things to kill even more things and mine even more things.
don't get me wrong I like minecraft, but without some kind of content your just going in circle of a different nature but going in circles still none the less.
I would much rather kill things in mass. YOu at least got to pick your own speed, difficulty and content then. The game didn't treat you like an idiot. Grinding a ton of mobs but being social and meeting other people as you killed >>>>>>>>>>> solo linear quest grinding where the quest text really doesn't matter.
More rose-colored glasses.....so pitiful people lack the simple critical thinking to analyze these things.
There is no reason to be social in MMO's because WE KNOW IT ALL already. For them to change that they would have to do something truly revolutionary. We talked because we didn't know what "social mobs" were, or what "pulling" was, or "tanking", or ANYTHING else. Now we all know and do it without thinking.... I can only hope they have somehow figured out something that changes the face of things but I would be naive to believe they have.
**edit**
Just to clarify....everyone whines about the asian grind-fest MMOs and yet you're here trying to say you would prefer that but only if it actually requires MULTIPLE people to waste hours on end doing the same mind-numbing thing over and over?
Again...don't get me wrong I LOVE group-based content and really hope they have a need for mezzing, rooting, controlling, etc.. but your argument seems COMPLETELY counter-intuitive.
That's not completely true. A good amount of the social reinforcement in EQ came from the difficulty of the game. Often times you absolutely couldn't do something on your own and needed the help of others.
-Almost all the content in the game was group. In games like Tera, solo content is not only present in the game, but often times it's forced because there is no group content for levels at a time. (You could always kill solo mobs in a group though, that's always fun). Solo isn't just an extra feature to appeal to a different demographic, often times it's promoted as the way better exp rate option, or simply the only thing available, which is pathetic because an MMORPG should have group content for all levels and areas of the game right along side solo content. Grouping is also more onerous on the players, so it should always be the better/faster way to level up or get loot. It should not be discouraged by having faster exping solo content.
-Corpse runs also built on this. When you died and lost all your gear at the bottom of a dungeon or deep into a really bad area, you needed the help of other people to get it back. Hell this didn't just apply to soloers who slipped up. A whole group could have wiped, and then they needed to enlist the aid of another group in the dungeon to help them work back to the downed group's corpses lol. It was a very social mechanic.
-Trading was also very personal and social. There was no auction house so you had to wheel and deal in person. I think out of the things I listed so far that this was actually a bad thing *sitting around spamming /ooc trying to sell a few items was not fun*. But never the less it was an aspect of the game that got you talking to a lot more people.
Yes, some of it came from being lost in a new experience, but much of it was based on the games mechanics. Not saying games today have bad communities, and are completely anti-social, but EQ did force a lot more social interaction. If you think that's a good or bad thing is completely up to you.
Also, starting off each of your posts with a childish insult only makes you look.... well, obviously childish.
The good news OP is that the voice overs will not only be there but the NPCs mouths and faces will be moving with it due to recording with SoEMote. I think any new MMO that just has NPCs staring at you while text is displayed is very dated. When NPCs "talk" to you the world seems far more immersive.
I agree about the lack of quest markers or linear quests 1000%. Instead of text entering however I wonder if they can make SoEMote do the same thing. Give you an option to type it or speak it. That would blow my mind. I definitely hope they go back to [keyword] in any case.
I think the open world of exploration will be there though. Dave mentioned being able to progress specifically by exploring the frontier so that sounds like good news in that regard. We'll see.
Originally posted by Aelious The good news OP is that the voice overs will not only be there but the NPCs mouths and faces will be moving with it due to recording with SoEMote. I think any new MMO that just has NPCs staring at you while text is displayed is very dated. When NPCs "talk" to you the world seems far more immersive.
I agree about the lack of quest markers or linear quests 1000%. Instead of text entering however I wonder if they can make SoEMote do the same thing. Give you an option to type it or speak it. That would blow my mind. I definitely hope they go back to [keyword] in any case.
I think the open world of exploration will be there though. Dave mentioned being able to progress specifically by exploring the frontier so that sounds like good news in that regard. We'll see.
I don't think they will go back to keyword, but it was kinda funny not having a quest journal or map was kinda fun. The quests in general were lol.
Hail...keyword....keyword....keyword.... "Go forth and kill 13 frogloks and bring me their slime coated tongues!
Head over to frogloks..... oh no map... where are they? /Runs around for an hour then finds them lol....
Each one has a chance to drop slime coated foot, slime coated skin, and slime coated tongues....
Ok what did I need again? No quest journal.... hmmmm Well I got 13 slime coated skins, I think he said that.
Return to him and hand him 13 slime coated skins "I do not need these! Take them back!"
Damn it, run back to frogs, hope you remember where they are without a map.
Kill them.
Run back.
Hand in 13 slime coated tongues.. "Dun da da dun dun dun dunnnnn!" You have received 3 silver and a loaf of bread! Woo hoo!
Yup. They said that things like "Go kill 10 rats" is not fun and they want to stay away from that kind of stuff. I can easily see them doing away with quest journal stuff all together.
Screw that... I want to see exactly that, a quest to "Go kill 10 rats". I want those 10 rats to be superfreak dragon style beasties. And, I want them to be spread all around the world. They should be dynamic event public style bosses that roam the countryside(read: don't just constantly respawn in one place to get chain killed every 15 minutes).
A type of epic quest or something. I want to see them take that "Go kill 10 rats" quest and make us love it this time around. They should make some epic world quest out of the generic rat killing quest in every MMO game from here on out.
Pour some fun and passion into it, and make it enjoyable.
Let it be like the rainbow, a promise to never let those terrible "quests" happen again.
Yup. They said that things like "Go kill 10 rats" is not fun and they want to stay away from that kind of stuff. I can easily see them doing away with quest journal stuff all together.
Screw that... I want to see exactly that, a quest to "Go kill 10 rats". I want those 10 rats to be superfreak dragon style beasties. And, I want them to be spread all around the world. They should be dynamic event public style bosses that roam the countryside(read: don't just constantly respawn in one place to get chain killed every 15 minutes).
A type of epic quest or something. I want to see them take that "Go kill 10 rats" quest and make us love it this time around. They should make some epic world quest out of the generic rat killing quest in every MMO game from here on out.
Pour some fun and passion into it, and make it enjoyable.
Let it be like the rainbow, a promise to never let those terrible "quests" happen again.
Like killing the rats in the original plane of fear.... took a full group about 3 minutes to down a rat.
SWTOR Referral Bonus! Referral link 7 day subscriber level access Returning players get 1 free server transfer
I would agree for the most part. I've seen people post that the hype is so high that there is no way that the game could do anything but disappoint people. I disagree. I think all it really needs to do is give people a few changes like you describe, a few things that people who are sick of the theme park treadmill have been screaming for, and people will flock to it. It doesn't need to do anything perfectly or be absolutely amazing on all fronts to bring people in at all. A breath of fresh air is going to attract many, regardless of whether that breath is giant or not that big.
Comments
This! Exactly what they need to do.
I agree with Cirin (sp), I think many of you are missing the point. I played Everquest for 4+years and it was my first experience in an MMO, like it was for so many.
There wasn't a lot of information online that you could just access some wiki, mmorpg or curse gaming and ect. So what did you do, you chatted all the time. You wanted to sell something, you sat in that damn tunnel for 3hrs and while you waited in between your " WTS blah blah" you chatted it up.
I believe its an experience that cant be repeated unless something is so groundbreaking that it requires us to want to chat it up, but most wont. We'll just google or bing it.
The more you make combat require more of your attention the less time you'll have to chat it up, ever remember a really good Bard chatting much. Heck no he was too busy twisting. Imagine the whole group doing the same thing, who can chat.
Something is generally thought to be awesome when you do it or see it for the first time. You just arent going to get that same experience and/or feeling again. Not only that, think of the type of players and age groups that played EQ back then and think about the mindset of the new generation of MMO players. Its not the same. So many things are different.
Any way, I wish we could get that feeling we had back then. It would require a company to make a niche game for a select few players. I think there is room for niche games for different play styles. I hate that every PvE MMO thinks they have to be PvP also. I would gather to guess most investors don't want to invest in a niche game, would you?
Sandbox means UGC. Always has, always will. Regardless of how hard people try to act like Themepark and Sandbox are the same.
Your reason to group in Sandbox is circumstantial as opposed to task orientated Themepark. There's no failure to get that one thing done. A proper Sandbox has a bevy of options always available to you that will allow you to experience and grow.
Think buffet vs. ordering off the menu.
FYI
I never tossed Themepark as a slander. I'm merely pointing out flaws in your argument by comparing how one set of games do it vs. how EQ Next says they're challenging that idea. I actually like Themeparks, but find it hilarious the amount of recent reinterpretations the term Sandbox has taken.
How does combat factor in the discussion? It's a separate issue and can be handled many different ways in an MMO separate of PVP or PVE, Themepark or Sandbox.
No, the answer is to make the whole game dynamic. Not just quests. not just grinding, and quests have to remain in single and group form. But for the whole game to be dynamic means everything has to be persistent and have lasting world changes. With semi to permanent changes, I don't know how many players could live with that though.
-Content is what players and enemy npcs both have:
1.Each side has their own motives and will constantly push to meet those goals. Not through story or cutscenes but actual fights.
2.There needs to be single player goals/quests with clear markers for players and npcs. This is to give players and npcs smaller goals in conjunction to the world arch.
3.There needs to be clearly defined battle class roles. I know people always say crap about the trinity. But strict roles encourage player socialization and synergy.
4. If a settlement of fort is destroyed rather than just sieged. It is gone until rebuilt. There would have to be at least one safe city/region that can never be destroyed so the game doesn't come to a possible standstill.
Some examples:
1.If you die during a quest or event without a raise. You raise up at your last homepoint but you lost the chance at advancement for that quest or event unless it repeats later on but still keep whatever you earned before you died. The same applies to npcs, if they get killed no monster respawns to replace them. That's one less you or them that partakes in that battle.
2.If there is an invasion on a settlement by the enemy and you lose. You can't re-enter that settlement until your side wins it back no matter how long it takes. Same applies to the npc enemies.
3.Npc enemies fight for resources just as the player side does and compete against us in the markets. That resource could be a gear drop from one of us players that the enemies covet.(I don't know if losing a gear you worked hard for would be taking it too far, people might cry.)
Basically there would never be a safe spot. Ours and our enemies best chance for progression would be forming bonds with our or their allies. There would be deals between both sides, and we will never know if that deal is more harmful or good until we see the preceding effects. It would be like a quasi PvE/PvP instead of us versus them or us vs us always. Players and npcs would work on both sides. No clear evil vs good.
How do you look up the answers to a world based off UGC?
something that's ever changing by the player base?
The point of a sandbox game is essentially, they give you the sandbox. You play in it and are only limited by the toys that are provided.
So basically you can choose to go be an explorer, or maybe the town alchemist, perhaps a well known chef that people seek out and pay to make fantastic buff foods and drinks. You could be a notorious bandit that hides in waiting for it to get dark and ambush travelers and steal from them or kill them. Maybe you want to make friends with the village of npc's you found. Only one will talk to you now and you noticed when you killed a savage creature near the village it raised faction with the npc's of that village. Or maybe you want to be a powerful leader of a large guild and set out to gather forces and take on other guilds from far away or take on some huge Mountain Giants. The world is what you make of it in a sandbox. You could be a furniture maker and a home owner. Perhaps an animal tamer and seller of mounts or pets you tamed to other players. These sorts of things are all possible in a good sandbox with the right tools. It's just up to the Devs how fun they want to make things or what direction they want to go with it all..
THIS^^^^^.
Yep they have evolved. That is why we keep doing this way that you described as evolved, and games keep failing. I know my way is so primitive, and the only reason that I enjoyed it then was because I didn't know any better. I know the only reason I remember having fun doing things that way is because of some rose tinted glasses feeding my nostalgia.
BUT
What if my nostalgia isn't due to rose tinted glasses? What if I really did have fun when I wasn't being dragged around on a leash? What if grouping up, and socializing with other players were what really made the killing fun? This standard that the genre has "evolved" into has proven time and time again that it doesn't work as game after game that follows it fails. How about for once we try it the way we are suggesting, and make MMO's actually mean interacting with and depending on the other players again instead of continuing to run around beside them with little to no interaction?
Kill quests should be like Legends and Lores quests, with a nice bonus to numbers of Orcs killed etc. I had so much fun completing those L&L quests, and they never felt like quests even though they were, we just killed just to kill, and was fun when we got a piece we needed
I forget what Rifts new quest things are called, where it triggers when you kill a mob, those are solid too, cause its completed in the field, I just need to feel more of a reward though, building towards something.
FF14 Kill Log is also cool
Given the direction PS2 has taken - after lots of early talk from the devs about all these new ideas they were going to go with.. SOE has made it more and more generic - I'm skeptical EQN will be any different.
There will be talk about no "kill 10 rats quests" - yet you'll strangely discover that every 10 rats you kill, you get bonus xp 5 times per day... and so forth.
Same old stuff - repackaged in slightly different paper.
Maybe they'll put it in a heart and not tell you to do it, you just get the suggestion when you enter the zone. I hear that's an innovative way to do it.
I believe maybe you are too swayed by hype. He said he doesn't like the kill 10 rats model.
well lots of developers said that. Even Anet said that with GW2. But in reality, that's not avoidable unless the game has no combat and no missions. Everything that does has a kill x of y style to it or some traditional method. Some mask it better than others, but people with critical eye can see through that mask.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Well i don't mind quests but i do mind quests that give you XP and potions ( potions shouldn't even be in game unless player made ) But why not have the quest giver say " oh i hear there is a monster in so and so cave some where in westcommon lands that may drop a clue to where he hides his stash of goods" to get to that mob would take fighting to a spot and then pulling and camping until you killed the ph a few times before he spawned. Then if there was a few in group you would have to rinse repeat. Them type of quests gave exp,loot and most importantly down time to chat inbetween spawns. They usually called for a well balanced group also as spawns would be random and may get nasty spots where there was a few in camp.
I want the fear factor of getting to a camp and then trying to hold the camp and if you wiped you knew you had to get back there first to get your corpses then hopefully before somebody else took the camp.
This ------------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.
The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...
www.CeaselessGuild.com
100% agree with the OP. I don't even have anything to add, just wanna show some support for the idea that we might get a game that we play and not one where they tell us how to play.
Asdar
That's not completely true. A good amount of the social reinforcement in EQ came from the difficulty of the game. Often times you absolutely couldn't do something on your own and needed the help of others.
-Almost all the content in the game was group. In games like Tera, solo content is not only present in the game, but often times it's forced because there is no group content for levels at a time. (You could always kill solo mobs in a group though, that's always fun). Solo isn't just an extra feature to appeal to a different demographic, often times it's promoted as the way better exp rate option, or simply the only thing available, which is pathetic because an MMORPG should have group content for all levels and areas of the game right along side solo content. Grouping is also more onerous on the players, so it should always be the better/faster way to level up or get loot. It should not be discouraged by having faster exping solo content.
-Corpse runs also built on this. When you died and lost all your gear at the bottom of a dungeon or deep into a really bad area, you needed the help of other people to get it back. Hell this didn't just apply to soloers who slipped up. A whole group could have wiped, and then they needed to enlist the aid of another group in the dungeon to help them work back to the downed group's corpses lol. It was a very social mechanic.
-Trading was also very personal and social. There was no auction house so you had to wheel and deal in person. I think out of the things I listed so far that this was actually a bad thing *sitting around spamming /ooc trying to sell a few items was not fun*. But never the less it was an aspect of the game that got you talking to a lot more people.
Yes, some of it came from being lost in a new experience, but much of it was based on the games mechanics. Not saying games today have bad communities, and are completely anti-social, but EQ did force a lot more social interaction. If you think that's a good or bad thing is completely up to you.
Also, starting off each of your posts with a childish insult only makes you look.... well, obviously childish.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
I agree about the lack of quest markers or linear quests 1000%. Instead of text entering however I wonder if they can make SoEMote do the same thing. Give you an option to type it or speak it. That would blow my mind. I definitely hope they go back to [keyword] in any case.
I think the open world of exploration will be there though. Dave mentioned being able to progress specifically by exploring the frontier so that sounds like good news in that regard. We'll see.
I don't think they will go back to keyword, but it was kinda funny not having a quest journal or map was kinda fun. The quests in general were lol.
Hail...keyword....keyword....keyword.... "Go forth and kill 13 frogloks and bring me their slime coated tongues!
Head over to frogloks..... oh no map... where are they? /Runs around for an hour then finds them lol....
Each one has a chance to drop slime coated foot, slime coated skin, and slime coated tongues....
Ok what did I need again? No quest journal.... hmmmm Well I got 13 slime coated skins, I think he said that.
Return to him and hand him 13 slime coated skins "I do not need these! Take them back!"
Damn it, run back to frogs, hope you remember where they are without a map.
Kill them.
Run back.
Hand in 13 slime coated tongues.. "Dun da da dun dun dun dunnnnn!" You have received 3 silver and a loaf of bread! Woo hoo!
Ahhh bring it back lol.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Screw that... I want to see exactly that, a quest to "Go kill 10 rats". I want those 10 rats to be superfreak dragon style beasties. And, I want them to be spread all around the world. They should be dynamic event public style bosses that roam the countryside(read: don't just constantly respawn in one place to get chain killed every 15 minutes).
A type of epic quest or something. I want to see them take that "Go kill 10 rats" quest and make us love it this time around. They should make some epic world quest out of the generic rat killing quest in every MMO game from here on out.
Pour some fun and passion into it, and make it enjoyable.
Let it be like the rainbow, a promise to never let those terrible "quests" happen again.
Like killing the rats in the original plane of fear.... took a full group about 3 minutes to down a rat.
SWTOR Referral Bonus!
Referral link
7 day subscriber level access
Returning players get 1 free server transfer
Leveling assistance items given to new player!
See all perks Here