Originally posted by azzamasin Until the mentality of PvP'ers change from one of being an ass hat the majority of the time to one that is as accommodating as the PvE'er then I'll stick with PvE.
Until all you carebears stop being whiney.....Oh wait, I sound just like you.
Not all PvPers are ass hats. Many Just PvEers, (seen a raid guild) are just as ass hatty.
This mentality you present of ASSUMIG all "PvPers are ass hats" IS the problem, and it wont change the dynamic at all. The article was aimed at changing the us vs them attitude, yet here a PvEer is the one being hostile.
Don't forget most ofter people "rise" to meet your expectations, so, if you expect ass hats, you tend to get ass hats.
No one is saying ALL PvPers just like no one is saying ALL PvEers. It is the minority that ruins it for the majority - period. Until one learns to control them, there will be no way to get this sorted.
Originally posted by azzamasin Until the mentality of PvP'ers change from one of being an ass hat the majority of the time to one that is as accommodating as the PvE'er then I'll stick with PvE.
Until all you carebears stop being whiney.....Oh wait, I sound just like you.
Not all PvPers are ass hats. Many Just PvEers, (seen a raid guild) are just as ass hatty.
This mentality you present of ASSUMIG all "PvPers are ass hats" IS the problem, and it wont change the dynamic at all. The article was aimed at changing the us vs them attitude, yet here a PvEer is the one being hostile.
Don't forget most ofter people "rise" to meet your expectations, so, if you expect ass hats, you tend to get ass hats.
No one is saying ALL PvPers just like no one is saying ALL PvEers. It is the minority that ruins it for the majority - period. Until one learns to control them, there will be no way to get this sorted.
Agreed. And that's all it takes, just a few bad players, because PvP by its nature has a much more significant impact on the play of another person than PvE.
As someone who played Shadowbane for 2 and half years, Sadowbane was ALL PVP It had only 2 Save places were PVP was not allowed. PVP can be fun but it can be a real pain when a level 70 character attacks a level 20 character just out side of the town gates. When two factions fought it was fun but not murder of a low level by a high level. That seems to happen a lot of the time in most PVP that I have seen. I don't mind losing in a PVP fight, but been Murdered by a bored 70th level I find distasfull in the lest.
Originally posted by GroovyFlower As long you can't handle loss in any form in open PvP you never will be, this mean don't buy or join OPEN PvP games.Flag system sucks don't belong in open PvP worlds.Calling others carebears or pansy when they whine and cry is there own fault, why they even join or buy games that have open PvP(free for all(full loot or even permadeath) pls go play games that are safe for you and controlled instance with zero loss.This discussion will never end so many buy games or join FFA full loot games and then starting to scream gankers/pk should leave them alone when pve or starting lol what a joke you all are if you still buy those games pls STAY AWAY.I play DayZ every god damn day i see players enter the server i play on and RAGE in genral chat "Why you kill me im starter ive nothing or im friendly" IN CAPS wtf are they STUPID or what why they even buy ARMA 2 and dl DayZ in first place is BEYOND ME?A nich community want FFA FULL LOOT or also with PERMADEATH and some games provide those condition for them, this means no bloody CAREBEAR have the right to even demand anything i say STFU and play or leave its after all FREE TO PLAY FULL LOOT PERMADEATH whats there to not understand i wonder???Btw i keep killing in DayZ whiners or not i never response to anyone winning or losing im a BANDIT luckly the server admin agree its we say when someone CRY again in chat... "Welcome to DayZ - Have nice day"My server i play lucky always packed we have heroes and bandits many rage but they keep comming i LMAO:PDont get so attached to your prescious pixels pls its only a game.
First off, players like you are the reason I avoid PvP.
Secondly, I do not buy games to be *your* content. I don't get paid by the game makers to be your content, I pay them for my own enjoyment. Sorry that does not include your enjoyment.
Thirdly, "Carebear" vs "Psychopath." I'll take carebear every time.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
No. The real problem is people who do not like pvp playing a game with pvp. Nothing is forced on you, you made a choice by selecting the game, it was not a supprise patch to add pvp. There is nothing wrong with a game with pve & pvp mixed, the problem is people crying about pvp when they play the game.
First of all how many MMOs without any form of PvP are outhere? That's right. So this argument is moot.
I haven't seen many ppl complaining about getting killed in duels, arenas or wars. I've seen however plenty of ppl getting ganked while grinding, afk levelling, questing, etc. And that happened in mixed PvE / PvP games - because that's where the 2 sides clash. Like I've previously said casual players tend to avoid open PvP games (or the ones heavily centered on that). However for some strange reason, the PvP addicts keep popping in these mixed MMOs. The funny thing is that often their dedicated channel / server / etc. has low population, and they bitch all the time about it and blame ppl for not joining - not realising that when ppl do have a choice, they simply don't like killing other players all the time and they find better ways to spend their time. So the real question is: if you love PvP that much, why the heck aren't you playing an open PvP game instead of wasting your time among those annoying "carebears"?
IMO the reason why a game relies heavily on PvP is lack of content. It's tedious and time consuming to create an original lore with plenty of activities, real (chain) quests, and overall in depth content, and since most games only manage to stay in business for a couple of years there's no wonder some devs prefer to simply put together an open PvP world, some armor sets & skills, a couple of useless crafting skills and just let ppl go rampant. Who the heck is gonna notice the game's lack of depth? The players? They're too busy ripping their heads off!
PvP'ers should get their own game... It's a different kind of player then the ones that PvE and like to do dungeons and raids. But please respect us who don't like PvP... We are no carebears, and if it must be so then I'm glad I am one, but have some respect to thers who like to play the game in a different way.
So, "risk vs reward" tactic got too old, so pvpers changed toon, now it is " all games must be ffa pvp", so there are no other choice but to play ffa pvp? "dead wrong" if developers go that way? then big chunk of people will play sprpg's instead and mmo's are going to die-out, and I bet people will still blame developers for not develop games properly or games are too buggy.
PvP crowd could never be satisfied period.
I play CSS all the time, and let me tel you, pvp get too stale and boring after a while, I did try to play bfbc2 same thing and all other fps games, because they all have the same tone " defeat other players or be defeated", there arent any real purpose for pvp, even if siege is added or destructible housing.
It is not just NEW players that have an aversion to PvP. As a well seasoned MMO'er for well over 12 years, I have PvP'd in many an MMO. The problem is not "understanding" how PvP works but rather that the whole PvP system is broken...especially for low level players vs. high level players. And since most MMO's are level based, it happens wherever pvp is found. Makes no difference if you have YEARS of experience, you simply are not competing on a level playing field. As far as I am concerned players should NEVER be allowed to pvp until they have maxed their characters in level. Even then, it should only be if players CONSENT.
Good article, i fully agree. No Need for different servers. Just need one server with flagged open world pvp. I would even like it to have full loot. But in a form of some sort timer. Lets say you flag yourself for pvp for one hour your safe from full looting. Going beyond dat hour you open yourself for full loot. Now obviouslyt the hardcore pvp has nothing to worry about as surely they will remain flagged as thats their thrill. Bit the occasional or casual pve-pvp player still can get a taste of pvp and even had the time to become more experianced in pvp without tje worry of loosing his stuff. In time that casual player even night get better at pvp, gjving the hardcore pvp a much better challenge. Seems like a win win situation. Obviously the "carebear i want forced pvp" will not like such a system because it means they have to fight other people who are actually interested in pvp
Originally posted by azzamasin Until the mentality of PvP'ers change from one of being an ass hat the majority of the time to one that is as accommodating as the PvE'er then I'll stick with PvE.
In general, it is a mind set that is totally different.....When you add in permadeath and full loot aspects to the PVP then it becomes even worse.....I dont think msot PVErs dont like PVP because they aren't good at it, but because it just isn't all that fun for most of them and not a preferred playstyle.
At what point did pvp in mmos become about competition?!!!! Its not about ,oh at least we all have fun. Its about wtf pwning your enemy in a world were only the stronger truly survive. That is what suspends disbelief and ads excitement.
Example: You are heading back to stormwind after a night killing monsters an baddies with your giant gang of friends that all studied up on the enemies tactics and weaknesses and,OH NOES, an ogre comes running out of the tree line at you axe raised.
A. Does the ogre rip your f'in head off if you can't stop him,
B. you ask the ogre to stop and explain to him that your not really a fighter and just heading home so maybe he'll understand(even though you brag about your deeps at raid).
C.You stop the ogre and set up some basci ground rules for a fair and fun fight and there will ceetianly be no killing or looting of enyone because you both in the end are just looking for competition.
mmo -RPG<<<<<<<<<<<< if your rpin in a freakin world of dangers and baddies expect to get f'ed up or become the hero you pretend to be through training and practice. Pvp should be looked at as a bar fight. You go to a bar in the wrong hood or start something with some one knowing you aint never been in a real fight in your life guess what. Your about to get WTFLOLPWNX0RRED and the same thing is true with pvp. Long live FULL LOOT ___ R.I.P UO and Release RoM I miss you both so much : D (even though RoM cheesed it a bit later on lol)
I disagree with this whole honor code crap. One in wvwvw in guild wars 2 you know what your getting into when you enter it. So if I shoot an arrow threw your back while you busy fighting a mob why shouldn't I? Its open world pvp not like you didn't know there would be players out there wanting to idk kill you! honor pff sounds like you want me to ask you nicely to kill you! I do however agree pvp and pve should be seperate, but seperate can never be equal.
My fellow gamers hear me! why must we fight like this? Who else would understand your passion for gaming than you fellow gamers? We all love an hate lots of things about games, but we share a common love for gameing. Pvp and pve should be a choice. If you don't like pvp then you dont have to play it but dont shit on the pvp for attacking your keep (I for one love that about gw2 getting an army together and attack another army even if I do die alot still a good time) and pvp dont attack your fellow gamers who just want to enjoy story content they have chosen not to bother you on the field of battle. Why are we attacking each other? Isnt it bad enough the media does a good job of bashing us all that we shouldnt wast time fighting with each other. I for one enjoy both side of the game. Nothing like exploring a good story line, then switching over to engage in some epic conflict with your army. Isn't there fun to be had on both sides?
I personally LOVE open world PvP. My fondest MMO memories are of random drawn out encounters in the open world. The best way to go is to have 1. PvE server with battlegrounds. 2. Open PvP server
People like to fondly remember how good it was in DAoC and even in that game it was garbage, it was just better garbage. DAoC PvP was ok at first - it had a point, it got a lot of people involved, people fought for their realm...then they added points, RAs, ladders, and it became and epeenfest and sucked.
MMORPG PvP is at its best when there is a reason to do it and it doesn't involve personal rewards like points, perks, or ratings. And almost nobody does PvP like this. Instead they make it a grief-based epeenified minigame that has no point or meaning.
Why is it garbage? Because PvP should be about competition and it should have a point other than just randomly murdering people, and if it IS about just randomly murdering people, that's fine, but that doesn't belong in MMORPGs because MMORPGs are bigger and better than that. If it's e-sport, that's fine too, but what's the point in having an e-sport minigame contained in games (MMORPGs) that are already huge, when the minigame has zero to do with the core gameplay, zero impact or meaning on the persistent game worlds, and is basically pointless other than to be a minigame?
I mean, if you really just do PvP with MMORPG style characters (gear, spells, hotbar abilities, etc) then why not just separate the PvP from the MMORPG and play a game that is ONLY the PvP element of MMORPGs, like Forge? It occurs to me that a lot of MMORPG PvPers don't really like MMORPGs - they don't want to PvE, don't want to level, they just want fantasy themed quake and to think that using 20 skills is somehow more "skillful" than simply playing online FPS, even if good PvP players basically have scripts for every situation and all do the same thing with those skills all the time.
FFA style PvP or PvP servers are all about grief. Ganking, corpse camping, graveyard camping. Groups steamrolling soloists. Antis ganking PKs, PKs ganking whoever they can. You're red you're dead. LOL. So compelling. It's not about competition at all, it's just lord of the flies barbarism or worse in a virtual setting. I sometimes wonder if players who enjoy FFA PvP, where it's basically just random murder, might possibly have some mental or social disorders.
Instanced PvP is all about grief with gear imbalances, class imbalances, spec imbalances. Call it competitive if you must but there are simply too many factors that can shift it away from skill and ability. In most instanced PvP it is incredibly unlikely that you'll find an even match. It does happen. It's a beautiful thing when it does happen. But the dozens of not so beautiful matches are a high price to pay for that rare shot at perfection.
At the core, MMORPGs are PvE games. You level, you get gear, you grow a character, you usually have variety of classes, builds, roles and between all of that you're not likely to ever have an even one on one match. An MMORPG would be poorly designed if all the classes were equally viable against each other because it's an impossibility.
Groups can come closer but it's still unlikely that you'll ever have a group of players of similar ability, gear, perfection of builds, etc.
The other thing that's garbage about PvP in MMORPGs is the effect it can have on the core game. Every dev says "our PvP is going to be amazing" and it usually is not. It's usually an imbalanced and incomplete mess that they continually try to tweak even though there's no hope of it ever being balanced. And every tweak they do has impact on the rest of the game.
Now there are some players who do like the PvE side of things and also like to PvP, and they like that PvP is an optional and contained minigame and sideshow they can hop in/out of whenever. Or they've grown into liking it since for whatever reason every MMORPG on the planet is obligated to have a PvP minigame component now matter what (even a game like Nevrwinter when D&D has zero to do with PvP and is the pregodfather of all things group-based PvE, or in TESO where the company has provided 10+ years of PvE godliness and zero PvP).
I would find it refreshing to see an MMORPG created that has ZERO PvP...just to see how it goes. I've done quite a bit of PvP in my MMORPG history but I've grown sick of it because to me it's just a pointless and repetitive minigame and I often find PvPers to be amongst the worst (attitude/behavior) players in MMORPGs. It wouldn't bother me at all if such people didn't play a PvE only MMORPG, in fact, I think it'd be pretty cool to see how it would shake down not having people that don't actually like the game itself and only want to grief other players not in a game.
The thing for me is, if you "say" you really love PvP, why would you want to PvP in an MMORPG when MMORPG PvP is so fundamentally flawed with no hope of improving? If you really love competition, wouldn't you be better off in the various game genres that do competitive PvP well instead?
I actually think a lot of players ENJOY griefing other players and that's part of the lure and success of MMORPG PvP. The opportunity to have better gear than someone else and to wftpwnbbq nubs. The opportunity to be experienced with a FOTM build steamrolling noobs dumb enough to enter PvP with no clue. Seems lame to me but I think a lot of people get off on this.
I know somebody who in WoW built up every BoA item possible when they got bored with PvE and all he did was reroll alts constantly and take them 10-19 thru BGs til they leveled out. He took great pleasure in massacring undergeared and clueless nubs that had no chance to beat his gear advantage. He'd level out, start a new alt, repeat. He enjoyed it when people sent him harassing tells especially if they rolled an alt on his server just to whine.
IMO, this is reprentative of a lot of MMORPG and there are LOTS of people who enjoy MMORPG PvP this way to some extent.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
Comments
No one is saying ALL PvPers just like no one is saying ALL PvEers. It is the minority that ruins it for the majority - period. Until one learns to control them, there will be no way to get this sorted.
Agreed. And that's all it takes, just a few bad players, because PvP by its nature has a much more significant impact on the play of another person than PvE.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Secondly, I do not buy games to be *your* content. I don't get paid by the game makers to be your content, I pay them for my own enjoyment. Sorry that does not include your enjoyment.
Thirdly, "Carebear" vs "Psychopath." I'll take carebear every time.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
First of all how many MMOs without any form of PvP are outhere? That's right. So this argument is moot.
I haven't seen many ppl complaining about getting killed in duels, arenas or wars. I've seen however plenty of ppl getting ganked while grinding, afk levelling, questing, etc. And that happened in mixed PvE / PvP games - because that's where the 2 sides clash. Like I've previously said casual players tend to avoid open PvP games (or the ones heavily centered on that). However for some strange reason, the PvP addicts keep popping in these mixed MMOs. The funny thing is that often their dedicated channel / server / etc. has low population, and they bitch all the time about it and blame ppl for not joining - not realising that when ppl do have a choice, they simply don't like killing other players all the time and they find better ways to spend their time. So the real question is: if you love PvP that much, why the heck aren't you playing an open PvP game instead of wasting your time among those annoying "carebears"?
IMO the reason why a game relies heavily on PvP is lack of content. It's tedious and time consuming to create an original lore with plenty of activities, real (chain) quests, and overall in depth content, and since most games only manage to stay in business for a couple of years there's no wonder some devs prefer to simply put together an open PvP world, some armor sets & skills, a couple of useless crafting skills and just let ppl go rampant. Who the heck is gonna notice the game's lack of depth? The players? They're too busy ripping their heads off!
So, "risk vs reward" tactic got too old, so pvpers changed toon, now it is " all games must be ffa pvp", so there are no other choice but to play ffa pvp? "dead wrong" if developers go that way? then big chunk of people will play sprpg's instead and mmo's are going to die-out, and I bet people will still blame developers for not develop games properly or games are too buggy.
PvP crowd could never be satisfied period.
I play CSS all the time, and let me tel you, pvp get too stale and boring after a while, I did try to play bfbc2 same thing and all other fps games, because they all have the same tone " defeat other players or be defeated", there arent any real purpose for pvp, even if siege is added or destructible housing.
Let's party like it is 1863!
No Need for different servers. Just need one server with flagged open world pvp. I would even like it to have full loot. But in a form of some sort timer. Lets say you flag yourself for pvp for one hour your safe from full looting. Going beyond dat hour you open yourself for full loot. Now obviouslyt the hardcore pvp has nothing to worry about as surely they will remain flagged as thats their thrill. Bit the occasional or casual pve-pvp player still can get a taste of pvp and even had the time to become more experianced in pvp without tje worry of loosing his stuff. In time that casual player even night get better at pvp, gjving the hardcore pvp a much better challenge. Seems like a win win situation. Obviously the "carebear i want forced pvp" will not like such a system because it means they have to fight other people who are actually interested in pvp
In general, it is a mind set that is totally different.....When you add in permadeath and full loot aspects to the PVP then it becomes even worse.....I dont think msot PVErs dont like PVP because they aren't good at it, but because it just isn't all that fun for most of them and not a preferred playstyle.
Every game I've ever played that had the choice of PvE servers and PvP servers, the PvP servers were far less populated.
PvP is like raiding - companies are constantly chasing after a small demographic, at the expensive of the average player.
Instead, we should see games cater to different tastes, rather than one game try to please all people.
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
At what point did pvp in mmos become about competition?!!!! Its not about ,oh at least we all have fun. Its about wtf pwning your enemy in a world were only the stronger truly survive. That is what suspends disbelief and ads excitement.
Example: You are heading back to stormwind after a night killing monsters an baddies with your giant gang of friends that all studied up on the enemies tactics and weaknesses and,OH NOES, an ogre comes running out of the tree line at you axe raised.
A. Does the ogre rip your f'in head off if you can't stop him,
B. you ask the ogre to stop and explain to him that your not really a fighter and just heading home so maybe he'll understand(even though you brag about your deeps at raid).
C.You stop the ogre and set up some basci ground rules for a fair and fun fight and there will ceetianly be no killing or looting of enyone because you both in the end are just looking for competition.
mmo -RPG<<<<<<<<<<<< if your rpin in a freakin world of dangers and baddies expect to get f'ed up or become the hero you pretend to be through training and practice. Pvp should be looked at as a bar fight. You go to a bar in the wrong hood or start something with some one knowing you aint never been in a real fight in your life guess what. Your about to get WTFLOLPWNX0RRED and the same thing is true with pvp. Long live FULL LOOT ___ R.I.P UO and Release RoM I miss you both so much : D (even though RoM cheesed it a bit later on lol)
The best way to go is to have
1. PvE server with battlegrounds.
2. Open PvP server
This way everyone can play the way they like.
IMO, PvP in MMORPGs is garbage.
People like to fondly remember how good it was in DAoC and even in that game it was garbage, it was just better garbage. DAoC PvP was ok at first - it had a point, it got a lot of people involved, people fought for their realm...then they added points, RAs, ladders, and it became and epeenfest and sucked.
MMORPG PvP is at its best when there is a reason to do it and it doesn't involve personal rewards like points, perks, or ratings. And almost nobody does PvP like this. Instead they make it a grief-based epeenified minigame that has no point or meaning.
Why is it garbage? Because PvP should be about competition and it should have a point other than just randomly murdering people, and if it IS about just randomly murdering people, that's fine, but that doesn't belong in MMORPGs because MMORPGs are bigger and better than that. If it's e-sport, that's fine too, but what's the point in having an e-sport minigame contained in games (MMORPGs) that are already huge, when the minigame has zero to do with the core gameplay, zero impact or meaning on the persistent game worlds, and is basically pointless other than to be a minigame?
I mean, if you really just do PvP with MMORPG style characters (gear, spells, hotbar abilities, etc) then why not just separate the PvP from the MMORPG and play a game that is ONLY the PvP element of MMORPGs, like Forge? It occurs to me that a lot of MMORPG PvPers don't really like MMORPGs - they don't want to PvE, don't want to level, they just want fantasy themed quake and to think that using 20 skills is somehow more "skillful" than simply playing online FPS, even if good PvP players basically have scripts for every situation and all do the same thing with those skills all the time.
FFA style PvP or PvP servers are all about grief. Ganking, corpse camping, graveyard camping. Groups steamrolling soloists. Antis ganking PKs, PKs ganking whoever they can. You're red you're dead. LOL. So compelling. It's not about competition at all, it's just lord of the flies barbarism or worse in a virtual setting. I sometimes wonder if players who enjoy FFA PvP, where it's basically just random murder, might possibly have some mental or social disorders.
Instanced PvP is all about grief with gear imbalances, class imbalances, spec imbalances. Call it competitive if you must but there are simply too many factors that can shift it away from skill and ability. In most instanced PvP it is incredibly unlikely that you'll find an even match. It does happen. It's a beautiful thing when it does happen. But the dozens of not so beautiful matches are a high price to pay for that rare shot at perfection.
At the core, MMORPGs are PvE games. You level, you get gear, you grow a character, you usually have variety of classes, builds, roles and between all of that you're not likely to ever have an even one on one match. An MMORPG would be poorly designed if all the classes were equally viable against each other because it's an impossibility.
Groups can come closer but it's still unlikely that you'll ever have a group of players of similar ability, gear, perfection of builds, etc.
The other thing that's garbage about PvP in MMORPGs is the effect it can have on the core game. Every dev says "our PvP is going to be amazing" and it usually is not. It's usually an imbalanced and incomplete mess that they continually try to tweak even though there's no hope of it ever being balanced. And every tweak they do has impact on the rest of the game.
Now there are some players who do like the PvE side of things and also like to PvP, and they like that PvP is an optional and contained minigame and sideshow they can hop in/out of whenever. Or they've grown into liking it since for whatever reason every MMORPG on the planet is obligated to have a PvP minigame component now matter what (even a game like Nevrwinter when D&D has zero to do with PvP and is the pregodfather of all things group-based PvE, or in TESO where the company has provided 10+ years of PvE godliness and zero PvP).
I would find it refreshing to see an MMORPG created that has ZERO PvP...just to see how it goes. I've done quite a bit of PvP in my MMORPG history but I've grown sick of it because to me it's just a pointless and repetitive minigame and I often find PvPers to be amongst the worst (attitude/behavior) players in MMORPGs. It wouldn't bother me at all if such people didn't play a PvE only MMORPG, in fact, I think it'd be pretty cool to see how it would shake down not having people that don't actually like the game itself and only want to grief other players not in a game.
The thing for me is, if you "say" you really love PvP, why would you want to PvP in an MMORPG when MMORPG PvP is so fundamentally flawed with no hope of improving? If you really love competition, wouldn't you be better off in the various game genres that do competitive PvP well instead?
I actually think a lot of players ENJOY griefing other players and that's part of the lure and success of MMORPG PvP. The opportunity to have better gear than someone else and to wftpwnbbq nubs. The opportunity to be experienced with a FOTM build steamrolling noobs dumb enough to enter PvP with no clue. Seems lame to me but I think a lot of people get off on this.
I know somebody who in WoW built up every BoA item possible when they got bored with PvE and all he did was reroll alts constantly and take them 10-19 thru BGs til they leveled out. He took great pleasure in massacring undergeared and clueless nubs that had no chance to beat his gear advantage. He'd level out, start a new alt, repeat. He enjoyed it when people sent him harassing tells especially if they rolled an alt on his server just to whine.
IMO, this is reprentative of a lot of MMORPG and there are LOTS of people who enjoy MMORPG PvP this way to some extent.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.