I'm tired of beating around the bush so I'm just going to give my honest answers from what I know.
Gripe #1 : Fully instanced small CS sized zones. CS? Counterstrike-sized maps? There's some that are small when it makes sense for them to be small, like a few ask you to guard a certain object and they might just be a couple of rooms. There doesn't appear to be any functional upper limit on the size of the dungeons, I've already seen plenty that were many times larger than what NWN could render, we're not talking miles and miles but pretty damn sprawling, exhausting really.
Gripe #2 : every quest is a variation of every other. No moreso than any RPG, online or off. I made note of exactly zero (0) fedex quests, some people tell you to talk to some other people, but it's only a one-time leadin to the next actual adventure.
Gripe #3 : DnD rules thrown out of the window. A few, yeh. No attacks-of-opportunity from what I can tell. Those really mess you up with even the slightest bit latency, in my NWN experience. The control scheme and interface is certainly entirely unlike Neverwinter Nights or Baldur's Gate, but just because it isn't exactly like the other CRPG adaptions doesn't mean it isn't DND.
Gripe #4 : You have no free will to do anything. You mean you log in and it's just a rolling tech demo? No that's not the case. I observe just as much free-will as any other MMORPG, if you don't count PvP. Do you mean because there's no crafting? Personally I'm glad that they've abandoned that by-the-number MMOG game mechanic, though I wouldn't be surprised if they shoehorned it in someday.
Gripe #5 : log on> get in group> grind through some dungeon quests many times in a row> log off I guess if you enter the same dungeon over and over again, I guess that'd be your free will but I have no idea why you'd do that. There's about 20 mission areas (not all dungeon-like) in the starting area alone, yeh they're repeatable but you never actually have to repeat a mission. Sometimes you join a group and they happen to be doing a mission you've already done -- you can choose to repeat it at any time, it'll knock down your percentage of XP for mission completion but shouldn't affect that of your allies, so they won't mind bringing you along should you choose to go with them. It's actually a nice feature because it means you don't have to wait for a group that's doing something you can do, you can always do a quest that people of your level are doing.
Gripe #6 : Some may like it but I prefer a more open online experiance. Try SecondLife or some other freeform MMOG, they are only what you make of them. There is no MMORPG that is actually open-ended, most aren't even close. It is true that some MMORPGs have an aspect of exploring a vast overworld, but I find exploring an unknown encounter that is balanced to be challenging (but not impossible) for my level is just as exciting if not moreso, than trying to sneak into interesting areas in say, EQII, and getting my soulshard lost cuz some uberpowerful orc hit me. I suppose you could also say a lot of MMOGs have an economic system that gives you something more open-ended to do, I don't think we can say this won't exist in DDO yet; what have any of us seen, a mere five days? Not long enough for any economics to be worthwhile, day five I was just giving away +1 items that were of no use to me, because I knew I'd lose everything soon anyway.
Originally posted by MaShneegro Originally posted by zethcarn Maybe you can be a little more constructive and tell us why you think DDO is GW+subscription fee. I've seen people playing the beta it looks nothing like GW.
Fair enough Fully instanced small CS sized zones. every quest is a variation of every other. DnD rules thrown out of the window. You have no free will to do anything. log on> get in group> grind through some dungeon quests many times in a row> log off. that is all.
Some may like it but I prefer a more open online experiance.
I'm sorry but all you have say is tottaly wrong,
Fully instanced small CS sized zones.
Raid zones can have 12 or more people in them that dont need to be in same group so there is not fully instanced zones (you can have other people there)... and dont need to do same quest etc..
And they are not small, some are huge you can easy get lost.
every quest is a variation of every other.
An this you really cannot be more wrong, quests is a VERY diferent from each other and they put in this part most efforts, not only that you have main quest and sidequests but even you can get to bonus for doing it on different ways, and all this for EVERY one of them! You can do most of zones 2 or 3 times to not find all what is possible and miss something. And for difference of other similar products at start you have acces to so many that you will get to lv 3 and still not even enter in half dungeons, and not done 1/3 of quests aviable in first part of town after starting zone.
DnD rules thrown out of the window.
This is complete evidence of your ignorance as if you read all posts from people who tryed gme they say a game follow rules as much as possible, attack of oportunity is rule mentined before, and is used in D&D as it is turn based game in realtime DDo combat there is other things to prevent you from complicating combat unecesary.
You have no free will to do anything.
Are you sure you think about same game as rest of us? grind dungeon ?? man dungeons are FUN here it is not grinding it is chalange to overcome and win it, and you can go to more then 30 - 40 of them right from start!
There is many things you can complain about this game but all of what you mentioned here is completly flawed and wrong.
Im really looking forward to multiclassing. However I dont like that there will be no monster drops, I mean, the monsters wont even drop its own weapons And I hope there will be alot of solo quests, as I enjoy soloing sometimes.
Originally posted by Bent The DDO experience will be equalivent to trying to play PnP D&D in the middle or a highschool cafeteria. I hope hope hope they have RP servers... Otherwise... Woe to the Role Players /local RPer "Greetings, Ist thou wish to journey into yonder duegon" /local I 0Wn U 2 FoR3vrs "No, why would I want to go into a duegon with a queer?" then the explict whisper spam start while you try to enter his name correctly into your block list.
lol i agree man, DDO looks okay but all instances might get boring... still better than sitting down and playing with a bunch of people, alot easier
Wanderhome. Ek'dwo Mistrider. Loyal Rebel. Loyal Star Wars Fan. Lover of pre-CU SWG.
I am personally really anticipating the new questing system, rather than being given a quest to kill X number of Y dudes, then come back to me, or get X number of Y creatures, which you will need ot kill about Z of, then come back to me. Those quests get really really old after awhile, and lose their point, I like the idea that your character actually has the feeling of having some weight in the world, rather than just being another guy, 2nd in line to kill the boss at the end of the cave. The combat at least sounds more engaging too, and I really want to try that out. I also like that the focus is more on you and having adventures, rather than dinging as fast as possible, and getting uber loot. Personally I think thats a self destructive way to do things, because once you get all that stuff, what are you going to do with it? Theres nowhere to go after that. Furthermore, if your only goal is to get to the highest level and get the best gear, but once you do that, theres no more point in playing that character, why bother in the first place? When I got my first lvl 60 in WoW, all I found was that it wasnt enjoyable. DDO seems to be about your character, and adventuring with friends and stuff, and leveling is just a bonus, which is how it should be: gameplay and story first, then getting cool stuff and leveling.
You can burn through the content in this game in 2-4 weeks if you play 4 or 5 hours each day. many hard core MMOGers play twice that amount and will have capped lvl and burned through all the content in this game to date in ~2~ weeks.
It promise something new and that is most excitating, as i love D&D and play it over 20 years now with some pause, and i played too much other MMO that more or less started to look one alike other too much, grinding, bad monster inteligence and not enough thinking.
DDO promise to give us FUN from start to end without stupid time sinks.. and i hope it will deliver FUN
Originally posted by BACONX I Can tell you this right now- this game will not be for solo players. Grouping is essential, just like..hmmm, D&D.
Wrong for the logic. And I am a grouper myself. Peoples taking pleasure in the lack of solo are shotting themselves in the feets, since the next thing you will know, it will be *insert whatever you like* that will be nerfed with no consideration by the devs and some of your friends will support the devs and say it was always suppose to be that way. LOL.
Solo remove nothing from grouping. Someone happy at the lack of solo purpose is like someone happy to see a compagny going bankrupt for not reason beside that they didn't work there.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Well, I'm not all that sure thats what they meant by that post, because it is rediculous to like no solo play because people who like soloing wont get to do it, which is just petty, instead I think they are saying that the focus is not on soloing. In the FAQs there is a question about solo content, which the devs said, at least at that time that there would be a bit of solo missions at low lvls, however the focus wasnt on soloing. While in WoW, I soloed almost all the missions and usually didnt do a quest if it required a group. However in this game it seems a little different than in WoW, since a lot of the quests will need a small group, which I think will be more fun. For some reason, if you add a lot of solo content, then everyone will want to do that, because it is presumably easier to just solo something rather than group it. Because of this group missions suffer, and fall prey to bad grouping. By focusing on group play rather than solo play, it is more likely that groups will form easier, and the groups will be better, because you must rely on your group a lot more than in other MMOs, so in some ways the death of solo play means the growth of group play. As I said before it would be petty to mock people who prefer soloing over grouping because that is their choice, however I believe that the focus is more toward grouping than on soloing.
The DDO experience will be equalivent to trying to play PnP D&D in the middle or a highschool cafeteria. I hope hope hope they have RP servers... Otherwise... Woe to the Role Players /local RPer "Greetings, Ist thou wish to journey into yonder duegon" /local I 0Wn U 2 FoR3vrs "No, why would I want to go into a duegon with a queer?" then the explict whisper spam start while you try to enter his name correctly into your block list.
I totally agree! I think a RP server is a must, although the majority of the first players will be D&D experienced players, the rest will have no notion, and in many cases, no desire to RP. While originating in the PnP RP tradition, there's not much of it left in the current mmorpg's, sometimes only the fantasy theme seems to have survived. Many - if not most - mmorpgs don't even have a RP server.
The prospect of a mmorpg experience with the immersion of a traditional PnP RP game is really a very nice one. I hope and pray it will be what we expect it to be! Can't wait!!
Originally posted by MaShneegro You can burn through the content in this game in 2-4 weeks if you play 4 or 5 hours each day. many hard core MMOGers play twice that amount and will have capped lvl and burned through all the content in this game to date in ~2~ weeks.
MaShneegro, you're obviously in beta. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the xp rewards may change for the live game and more quests could get added? Just a thought.
Originally posted by MaShneegro You can burn through the content in this game in 2-4 weeks if you play 4 or 5 hours each day. many hard core MMOGers play twice that amount and will have capped lvl and burned through all the content in this game to date in ~2~ weeks.
MaShneegro, you're obviously in beta. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the xp rewards may change for the live game and more quests could get added? Just a thought.
Please don't let this be another GW!!
If you look at the official DDO foums site, over 50% of the posters would love it if it would take at least 5 whole months to play through the whole game to reach lvl10!!
Well of course it's still beta .. let's hope for the best!!
It's just hapiness regarding that there is game that isn't just H&S. And lots of us knows that it's not the real copy of PHB or DMG. But man it's Online game that it built on tradition of rules(not 100%).
So from my point I will play this game with joy.
Originally posted by darquenblade
Originally posted by Hirata I don't know I really think that because this game is so catered to a particular group of indivduals that you will have mostly pen and paper players playing the game and it should be pretty RP orientated (or so I hope) lol I have high hopes for this game especially after the last review
I believe that this is a common misconception about the game. In reality, the number of actual D&D fans (as in those who play PnP) will actually be quite small in comparison to the legions who will jump aboard simply because it is the newest MMO on the block. Going to the official boards, you will see that many of the hardcore D&Ders are actually quite upset with how the game is coming along, because unfortunately your average D&D player is unbelievably nitpicky and unforgiving when it comes to the adaptation of the rules for this game. Basically, if it is not a digital representation of the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide, they aren't going to play it.
I've played D&D for about 15 years now, and I just don't care. This is a friggin' video game. If I want to get a true D&D experience, I'll actually play D&D. For me, DDO is pretty good at what it does, even if it does change some things around and is not 100% faithful to the PnP rules. Some people (read: hardcore D&D fans) need to start being realistic on what they should expect.
Comments
I'm tired of beating around the bush so I'm just going to give my honest answers from what I know.
Gripe #1 : Fully instanced small CS sized zones.
CS? Counterstrike-sized maps? There's some that are small when it makes sense for them to be small, like a few ask you to guard a certain object and they might just be a couple of rooms. There doesn't appear to be any functional upper limit on the size of the dungeons, I've already seen plenty that were many times larger than what NWN could render, we're not talking miles and miles but pretty damn sprawling, exhausting really.
Gripe #2 : every quest is a variation of every other.
No moreso than any RPG, online or off. I made note of exactly zero (0) fedex quests, some people tell you to talk to some other people, but it's only a one-time leadin to the next actual adventure.
Gripe #3 : DnD rules thrown out of the window.
A few, yeh. No attacks-of-opportunity from what I can tell. Those really mess you up with even the slightest bit latency, in my NWN experience. The control scheme and interface is certainly entirely unlike Neverwinter Nights or Baldur's Gate, but just because it isn't exactly like the other CRPG adaptions doesn't mean it isn't DND.
Gripe #4 : You have no free will to do anything.
You mean you log in and it's just a rolling tech demo? No that's not the case. I observe just as much free-will as any other MMORPG, if you don't count PvP. Do you mean because there's no crafting? Personally I'm glad that they've abandoned that by-the-number MMOG game mechanic, though I wouldn't be surprised if they shoehorned it in someday.
Gripe #5 : log on> get in group> grind through some dungeon quests many times in a row> log off
I guess if you enter the same dungeon over and over again, I guess that'd be your free will but I have no idea why you'd do that. There's about 20 mission areas (not all dungeon-like) in the starting area alone, yeh they're repeatable but you never actually have to repeat a mission. Sometimes you join a group and they happen to be doing a mission you've already done -- you can choose to repeat it at any time, it'll knock down your percentage of XP for mission completion but shouldn't affect that of your allies, so they won't mind bringing you along should you choose to go with them. It's actually a nice feature because it means you don't have to wait for a group that's doing something you can do, you can always do a quest that people of your level are doing.
Gripe #6 : Some may like it but I prefer a more open online experiance.
I suppose you could also say a lot of MMOGs have an economic system that gives you something more open-ended to do, I don't think we can say this won't exist in DDO yet; what have any of us seen, a mere five days? Not long enough for any economics to be worthwhile, day five I was just giving away +1 items that were of no use to me, because I knew I'd lose everything soon anyway.
Try SecondLife or some other freeform MMOG, they are only what you make of them. There is no MMORPG that is actually open-ended, most aren't even close. It is true that some MMORPGs have an aspect of exploring a vast overworld, but I find exploring an unknown encounter that is balanced to be challenging (but not impossible) for my level is just as exciting if not moreso, than trying to sneak into interesting areas in say, EQII, and getting my soulshard lost cuz some uberpowerful orc hit me.
Fair enough
Fully instanced small CS sized zones.
every quest is a variation of every other.
DnD rules thrown out of the window.
You have no free will to do anything.
log on> get in group> grind through some dungeon quests many times in a row> log off. that is all.
Some may like it but I prefer a more open online experiance.
I'm sorry but all you have say is tottaly wrong,
Fully instanced small CS sized zones.
Raid zones can have 12 or more people in them that dont need to be in same group so there is not fully instanced zones (you can have other people there)... and dont need to do same quest etc..
And they are not small, some are huge you can easy get lost.
every quest is a variation of every other.
An this you really cannot be more wrong, quests is a VERY diferent from each other and they put in this part most efforts, not only that you have main quest and sidequests but even you can get to bonus for doing it on different ways, and all this for EVERY one of them! You can do most of zones 2 or 3 times to not find all what is possible and miss something. And for difference of other similar products at start you have acces to so many that you will get to lv 3 and still not even enter in half dungeons, and not done 1/3 of quests aviable in first part of town after starting zone.
DnD rules thrown out of the window.
This is complete evidence of your ignorance as if you read all posts from people who tryed gme they say a game follow rules as much as possible, attack of oportunity is rule mentined before, and is used in D&D as it is turn based game in realtime DDo combat there is other things to prevent you from complicating combat unecesary.
You have no free will to do anything.
Are you sure you think about same game as rest of us? grind dungeon ?? man dungeons are FUN here it is not grinding it is chalange to overcome and win it, and you can go to more then 30 - 40 of them right from start!
There is many things you can complain about this game but all of what you mentioned here is completly flawed and wrong.
Im really looking forward to multiclassing. However I dont like that there will be no monster drops, I mean, the monsters wont even drop its own weapons
And I hope there will be alot of solo quests, as I enjoy soloing sometimes.
lol i agree man, DDO looks okay but all instances might get boring... still better than sitting down and playing with a bunch of people, alot easier
Wanderhome. Ek'dwo Mistrider. Loyal Rebel. Loyal Star Wars Fan. Lover of pre-CU SWG.
I am personally really anticipating the new questing system, rather than being given a quest to kill X number of Y dudes, then come back to me, or get X number of Y creatures, which you will need ot kill about Z of, then come back to me. Those quests get really really old after awhile, and lose their point, I like the idea that your character actually has the feeling of having some weight in the world, rather than just being another guy, 2nd in line to kill the boss at the end of the cave. The combat at least sounds more engaging too, and I really want to try that out. I also like that the focus is more on you and having adventures, rather than dinging as fast as possible, and getting uber loot. Personally I think thats a self destructive way to do things, because once you get all that stuff, what are you going to do with it? Theres nowhere to go after that. Furthermore, if your only goal is to get to the highest level and get the best gear, but once you do that, theres no more point in playing that character, why bother in the first place? When I got my first lvl 60 in WoW, all I found was that it wasnt enjoyable. DDO seems to be about your character, and adventuring with friends and stuff, and leveling is just a bonus, which is how it should be: gameplay and story first, then getting cool stuff and leveling.
You can burn through the content in this game in 2-4 weeks if you play 4 or 5 hours each day. many hard core MMOGers play twice that amount and will have capped lvl and burned through all the content in this game to date in ~2~ weeks.
Experience and best equipment come from quests only.
- No camping
- No soloing
- No farming
- No grind
- No <Put any typical MMOG player deprecable attitude here>
Tusken Raiders - Your Italian Guild on Star Wars: The Old Republic
It promise something new and that is most excitating, as i love D&D and play it over 20 years now with some pause, and i played too much other MMO that more or less started to look one alike other too much, grinding, bad monster inteligence and not enough thinking.
DDO promise to give us FUN from start to end without stupid time sinks.. and i hope it will deliver FUN
Wrong for the logic. And I am a grouper myself. Peoples taking pleasure in the lack of solo are shotting themselves in the feets, since the next thing you will know, it will be *insert whatever you like* that will be nerfed with no consideration by the devs and some of your friends will support the devs and say it was always suppose to be that way. LOL.
Solo remove nothing from grouping. Someone happy at the lack of solo purpose is like someone happy to see a compagny going bankrupt for not reason beside that they didn't work there.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Well, I'm not all that sure thats what they meant by that post, because it is rediculous to like no solo play because people who like soloing wont get to do it, which is just petty, instead I think they are saying that the focus is not on soloing. In the FAQs there is a question about solo content, which the devs said, at least at that time that there would be a bit of solo missions at low lvls, however the focus wasnt on soloing. While in WoW, I soloed almost all the missions and usually didnt do a quest if it required a group. However in this game it seems a little different than in WoW, since a lot of the quests will need a small group, which I think will be more fun. For some reason, if you add a lot of solo content, then everyone will want to do that, because it is presumably easier to just solo something rather than group it. Because of this group missions suffer, and fall prey to bad grouping. By focusing on group play rather than solo play, it is more likely that groups will form easier, and the groups will be better, because you must rely on your group a lot more than in other MMOs, so in some ways the death of solo play means the growth of group play. As I said before it would be petty to mock people who prefer soloing over grouping because that is their choice, however I believe that the focus is more toward grouping than on soloing.
Originally posted by Bent
The DDO experience will be equalivent to trying to play PnP D&D in the middle or a highschool cafeteria. I hope hope hope they have RP servers...
Otherwise... Woe to the Role Players
/local RPer "Greetings, Ist thou wish to journey into yonder duegon"
/local I 0Wn U 2 FoR3vrs "No, why would I want to go into a duegon with a queer?"
then the explict whisper spam start while you try to enter his name correctly into your block list.
I totally agree! I think a RP server is a must, although the majority of the first players will be D&D experienced players, the rest will have no notion, and in many cases, no desire to RP. While originating in the PnP RP tradition, there's not much of it left in the current mmorpg's, sometimes only the fantasy theme seems to have survived. Many - if not most - mmorpgs don't even have a RP server.
The prospect of a mmorpg experience with the immersion of a traditional PnP RP game is really a very nice one. I hope and pray it will be what we expect it to be! Can't wait!!
Cast your vote: The importance of character customisation
MaShneegro, you're obviously in beta. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the xp rewards may change for the live game and more quests could get added? Just a thought.
Originally posted by snydale
Originally posted by MaShneegro
You can burn through the content in this game in 2-4 weeks if you play 4 or 5 hours each day. many hard core MMOGers play twice that amount and will have capped lvl and burned through all the content in this game to date in ~2~ weeks.
MaShneegro, you're obviously in beta. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the xp rewards may change for the live game and more quests could get added? Just a thought.
Please don't let this be another GW!!
If you look at the official DDO foums site, over 50% of the posters would love it if it would take at least 5 whole months to play through the whole game to reach lvl10!!
Well of course it's still beta .. let's hope for the best!!
Cast your vote: The importance of character customisation
I anticipate content... Lots and lots of it
Going through handmade dungeons with a bunch of friends sounds like a fun idea 
I believe that this is a common misconception about the game. In reality, the number of actual D&D fans (as in those who play PnP) will actually be quite small in comparison to the legions who will jump aboard simply because it is the newest MMO on the block. Going to the official boards, you will see that many of the hardcore D&Ders are actually quite upset with how the game is coming along, because unfortunately your average D&D player is unbelievably nitpicky and unforgiving when it comes to the adaptation of the rules for this game. Basically, if it is not a digital representation of the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide, they aren't going to play it.
I've played D&D for about 15 years now, and I just don't care. This is a friggin' video game. If I want to get a true D&D experience, I'll actually play D&D. For me, DDO is pretty good at what it does, even if it does change some things around and is not 100% faithful to the PnP rules. Some people (read: hardcore D&D fans) need to start being realistic on what they should expect.