Pointless thread is pointless, people should play the game(in OB when everyone can try) and not make their purchasing decision based off a single thread.
I also agree that the "It doesn't have enough innovation" is a vague, generic and very weak argument.
As an argument, it's perfectly sufficient. If you've played MMOs for a long time, and are simply fed up with how every new MMO that comes out feels almost exactly like the last game you played, "doesn't have enough innovation" is a perfectly valid, and strong argument against a new game.
It's not valid for everyone, because not everyone is tired of that type of MMO, but it is valid for everyone with the same history and experience as you. who came to the same conclusion as you.
Innovation is of course not a guarantee for a better game, but it indicates a different game, which might be all that person is looking for.
You have to be very specific about what you don't like. Not "It lacks innovation" Innovation itself is meaningless if you don't qualify it and use specifics. I will still disagree with the claim that the game is bad because it lacks something that hasn't been done before. All the new innovations I have seen in the past half a decade have come with serious tradeoffs. Most of the new innovations added to MMOs have either contributed to their loss of longevity and replayability. Making them sorter and shorter term games or have pushed the genre away from multi-player and further into Solo-player games, also contributing to their loss of long term playability. Yes, what I am saying is all this new innovation is a factor in why P2P games are failing. Mostly because it's been the wrong kind of innovation.
Hey man, I couldn't agree more. I have been doing a lot of discussion related to FFXIV and how it compare to other mmo's out there on the marker and how I feel about it. I so far, really don't like it. There are certain aspects I really love, and enjoy.
The Crafting/Gathering system is awesome. It's new, unique, and fresh. The way you harvest, and the way the profession works as a class is really cool and invigorating too see.
The Job/Class system is fantastic! Cross classing is very cool. I haven't gotten too high of a level with multiple classes to really unlock the full potential behind the system, but so far from what I've been able to do it's really cool!
That said, there isn't really anything else that the game brings in terms of new or innovative aspects. From the start of the game, I had no idea what to expect, or what I was getting into. I never played FFXI, nor have I played the 1.0 version of this game. My mind and perspective was a clean slate. As I made my character and logged in, I was greeted by a pretty cinematic, and then a wagon ride to town where I would start my adventure.
First thing I noticed that put me off
The Map is utterly horrific. Every single aspect about the map makes me sick. It is impossible too navigate, it's not user friendly at all, it's confusing and it makes my head spin. Trying to get from Point A to Point E without already having been to Points BCD is almost impossible. The map is blank until you discover it, and the quest tracking system is non existent.
Ok, no big deal I thought, it's still in beta no sweat they will fix it. So I continued on my adventure in Ul'Dah or w/e it's called. As I continued picked up coins for rich people, delivering letters and notes and cookies to little Suzy Q, load screen after load screen, I was quickly getting bored. I was already LEVEL THREE before I even left the city to kill a monster. Upon engaging in battle I thought to myself. Wow. That was gay. Am I lagging? Why am I just standing there?
The auto attack speed seems inconsistent and unreliable. I think it's like 2.35 seconds currently at my level now. I spend most of my time in combat yawning, waiting for my eternal 2.5 second Global Cooldown to end its tyrannical reign over the battlefield.
The combat in this game is really, really holding the potential of the game down. It's sluggish, bland, and very lack luster. This game is a serious lobotomy in terms of combat. In Tera I would mindlessly grind just because of how fun and badass the combat was. Guild Wars 2, even only having 5 abilities, was still fun and beautiful too look at, the animations were smooth, blended well and looked gorgeous and i felt as if I were actively engaged in combat. But you just don't see that sort of stuff in this game. It's too tasteless. It's boring as fuck quite frankly. The Global Cooldown defies the space/time continuum and exists in multiple eternities it's so long. You spend more time waiting for the GCD than you do anything else. It is beyond frustrating, it kills the game.
As I continued playing Messenger Boy Delivery System 2013, I noticed a continuing trend. Go here, talk to him, come back to me. Repeat until exhausted. The quests are repetitive and monotonous. There is very little variety in what you do.
As I grit my teeth and carried on they introduced Hunting Logs, which is basically just hunting quest that can be completed once for each class. Each Log has 10 tasks, and there are 5 logs total. Each task usually requires you to kill anywhere from 4-6 of 1-3 species of enemy. What it boils down too is just a grindy mob killing quest. It's only there to help keep you leveled with the current area and your Main Story quest. Without it you would fall behind in level, as there are very very few actual quests in the game.
They also have what are called "FATEs" which are pretty much just Events in GW2 or Rifts in... well, rift lol. They are static events that respawn every so often, and you get more exp/coin the more you participate in said FATE. They, along with Hunting Logs are the only way to level an alternate class, as once you complete your story quest, or any other regular quest, you cannot do it again, be it with the same class or an alternate class. So in order to level another class, you must grind FATE's and grind out your Hunting Log, which still yields marginal Exp.
So on top of this, they added "LeveQuests." Yes, it's spelled LeveQuest. They are repeatable quests that you can do ONE per THREE hours via Allowances that accumulate over time. You can have up too... I think it was 30 allowances at a time, and up too 15 active LeveQuests. When activating a LeveQuests, you have the option of setting the difficulty up to 4 levels higher than it's attainable level, which increases net Exp and Coin gain from it. If you fail the LeveQuest, get Disonnected or otherwise don't complete it, you lose 1 Allowance, and have to start over.
When you finish an LQ you have the option to teleport back to the LQ Giver immediately, which is nice I guess. You can complete LQ's an infinite number of times, pending on the amount of Allowances you have accumulated. I have had a few times now where I have had an empty quest log, and wasn't high enough level to progress the story. I have done every quest, hunting log, and a few FATEs along the way.
Anyway, back to my adventure. Whilst exploring the lands of Whateverthenameoftheworldis, I was constantly plagued by loading screens. Why they decided to chop the game apart into little pieces and throw in loading screens is beyond me. Games have been Fully Loaded/No Load screen for over a decade, it's not new technology, and it's not GPU intensive. It really ruins any aspect of Awe or entrancement that would be in the game, there is no magic too it. It's just loading screen after loading screen after levequest after loading screen. It seems you can't go more than 100 yards without running into one. That isn't too terrible though honestly, it doesn't kill the games environment. What does, is the fact that there are invisible walls E-V-E-R-Y-W-H-E-R-E. You have ZERO option for exploration and adventure. The entire time I was playing I felt boxed in and claustrophobic, as if the world was shrinking in upon me. If you want to swim over the river to the other bank to fight that mob, no, you cannot. You must walk half a mile around the small body of water to the other side. You want to climb that hill and get up on that cool rocky outcropping and look around? Nope. Invisible walls bro, go fuck yourself! You can't even jump off the dock down to the platform below you in order to save yourself 15 seconds. It's really just ridiculous the amount of restrictions they put in the game!
The zones seem hollow and empty. Sure they have nice graphics and a good theme to them, but there is no life. The quests are few and far between and they never seem to have a neat/fun or non "UGhhh..." quest. I do not want to play Delivery Boy/Messenger Boy sim. I want to play an MMO RPG with great active and thrilling combat with decent enough quests to get me by and keep me occupied. Aside from that LeveQuest system being flawed, the zones, despite being well designed at a graphical stand point, leave something too be desired.
Regardless of how well put together the Class/Job system is, that is the only thing this game has going for it. Everything else pales in comparison to other MMO's. Despite some of the rather poorly designed aspects of this game, the one thing that would otherwise be able to hold things together and keep it fun and entertaining and have you wanting more, the Combat System, sucks more than anything else. It is THE WORST aspect of the game (Aside from the map system), and the most boring combat system of any MMO I've ever played.
The combat system in an MMO is the pinnacle of the games core and design. Who want's to play a game that isn't fun too play? Definitely not this guy. And for that reason, I have given up hope on this game. It is going to fail just like the previous rendition failed. It has many of the same problems, and many new problems that the dev's refuse too recognize and address. They are running horses with blindfolds on, not paying attention to what is going on around them, only wanting to get to the finish line ahead of the rest. Well, let me tell you something, run as fast as you want, but ignoring the fact that you have lost your jockey won't get you anywhere.
SORRY for the wall of text. My god.
I was just wondering about your opinion on another game, which I know has nothing to do with this game, but I am afraid it's going to suck! I really like the TES games and the new MMO they are coming out with next year has me worried/confused. Worried because I am so ignorant. Mainly, I just want to be able to explore and kill something that is a computer with someone who isn't when I feel like it. You know? I'm curious if you plan to play ESO and what you think about the openness of the world.
Sorry this post isn't really relevant to the thread, but I came to this thread for the good and the bad opinions and facts of everyone of the posters because I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a game and then not like it. I have signed up for beta on ESO, but not on FFXIV. I've found everyone's posts helpful, even when you get angry and nerd out.
I will also mention I am new to this site and to forums in general.
That said, there isn't really anything else that the game brings in terms of new or innovative aspects.
I see this a lot. "The game isn't new or innovative".
I think that argument is over-used a lot as a kind of "fool-proof, ace-card talking point", that people somehow feel is untouchable. As if to say "If you can't prove that it has something innovative, then I win". It's just not that simple.
Before it can be a strong argument, you have to define why it's so important that it be "innovative" in the first place. There are many things on the market that are not innovative, yet still manage to be very successful.
WoW wasn't particularly innovative at its launch either. All Blizzard did was took familiar concepts, wrangled them into a more streamlined and "accessible" format, and built a game based around an already beloved franchise. Their success is well known by now. The game, however, did nothing 'innovative' with the genre.
And you can say "well, Blizzard's different because WoW was a game released at the right time, to the right people" or whatever, and that's fine. But then it still shows that 'innovation' wasn't necessary.
Something doesn't have to be "innovative" to be good. It simply has to be well enough made and presented, to enough people. At the end of the day, execution and delivery carry far more weight than 'innovation'.
Why it's important to bring something new? Bringing something new adds a feeling of depth and longevity. The new system, whatever it may be, would draw people in and get them excited too play, just in order to utilize said system. I feel this game has a lot of well thought out ideas and plans for the game, but they were poorly executed. Like you said, Execution and delivery outweighs innovation, which I agree with. They could re use the same 'system' over and over, but if they don't polish it up and portray it in a way that looks prominent, then it won't provide anything too the game.
I'm not saying the game doesn't exactly have anything innovative, but what they did try and create didn't work, and therefore felt clunky and tacked on. Such as 'GuildHests' and 'LeveMetes' which are basically just daily quest hubs. Had they been implemented in a more strategic and well thought out fashion, I'm sure they would have been an exciting and attractive feature, but other than doing the GuildHest thing in order to get your Chocobo at level 20, there really isn't much a point to do them.
Here you demonstrate a clear penchant for hyperbole, which continues throughout your post. Another tendency I see with some people, they feel that adding a bunch of strong adjectives and exaggerated statements to their points somehow makes them stronger. They don't. They just make them look dubiously exaggerated.
"Utterly horrific", "makes me sick", "it's impossible to navigate", "makes my head spin", "almost impossible", "quest tracking system is non-existent".
In 3.5 lines of text (unquoted), you used 6 exaggerated/hyperbolic descriptions. That's a ridiculously slanted ratio.
Getting to any point on the map is not 'almost impossible'. It's not even difficult. The maps are not that confusing, major camps are clearly marked and labeled, anyone with a quest is marked with a symbol, and simply making your way in the general direction of what you're trying to get to is all that's necessary to get where you're going. For the most part, you can just follow the damn roads lol.
It is not impossible to navigate. Not by a long shot. I've been using the same map system as you constantly in my travels and have made my way where I needed to be every single time, without issue. Many others in my LS/FC are doing so as well, and doing just fine. Sounds like you're just poor at using maps, just weren't trying, or are just making things up.
Saying the quest tracking system is non-existant is a bold-faced lie. The quest tracking system is very present in this game. It's overkill, in my opinion.
There are markers on the map anywhere a quest is available
Yes, there are markers on the map, some times. For instance, the level 19-20 quest for joining a Grand Company, there are no quest markers on the map whatsoever, and the building you need to go into in order to do the quests, is unmarked as well. If I hadn't have asked around for 10 minutes I never would have find them.
There are circles indicating the location of quest objectives
There are circles and 'quest location' sort of markers on the map, yes. Again, they could be in an area you haven't discovered 3 zones away, and the map/quest does nothing in order to help you get there or figure out how.
There are quest markers over creatures' heads and on the mini-map.
Yea, there is a little "Q" above quest mobs heads and a red Dot indicator on the minimap.
There are "smoke" effects coming off objects, or smokey rings indicating the location of a quest objective's location
I think you are referring to like, that sort of aura around quest objectives? Such as "Dig here" or "Pick up this glowy shiny item." Yeah, that is true.
There are small gold arrows/glows indicating the direction of a quest/objective on your mini-map.
I have not noticed any sort of Gold Arrows or Glows of any sort. I think you just made that up, if there were such a thing, then I would have very little qualms with this map system. I just logged in, looked for a Golden Arrow/Glow, and it was nowhere too be found. Perhaps you could take a screenshot of this so I know what you are talking about?
A quest tracker is up on your screen, listing each one you have active.
Yes, there is a 'quest tracker' on your screen. It doesn't help you in anyway, it's just a reminder of what you are set out too do. It's just "Little Suzy wants you to get her four cookies. Cookies: 0/4"
The quest journal has a 'map' button that shows you where you have to go for the quest.
It is true that the quest log has a "map" button, and if you press said button, it will bring you too the localized map of where the quest needs to be completed. That is all. It doesn't even center the map over the quest, you are left too look around the map and find it. And again, it doesn't help guide you in any way or give you any indication of how to get there. You have to constantly click around on the little green text links until you backtrack your way across X amount of maps to where you currently are, and then follow that path in the opposite order back to the quest location. Sometimes doing this doesn't work, because you are separated by a giant cliff or a river, and need too take an Airship or a Boat to get there, which only exacerbates the problem.
Each quest in the journal even has a small picture of the NPC you need to talk to, for crying out loud.
And you're trying to call that 'non-existant'? Seriously?
Just because there is a picture of Dave Jones in the quest log, in no way does it help getting to Dave or finding his Hideout that (for some reason) isn't listed on the map. And, yes, it's pretty much non exsistant. It does very very little in terms of helping the played locate the person he or she is trying to get too, and once they do actually locate them it leaves them dumbfounded as too actually get to said person. They really could have done much much better. Maybe they will allow us too use addons in this game, and someone can program Quest Tracker RRB Version.
More hyperbole-filled ranting. You're confusing auto-attack speed with GCD. "Tyrannical reign over the battlefield'? Seriously? Are you so insecure in your own opinions that you have to inflate them with absurd exaggerations to make them seem "more powerful"?
No, not hyper-bole filled at all. I am not confused auto-attack speed with the GCD. And the GCD does reign supreme over the battlefield. Yes, seriously. It lords over your actions with a mighty grip, unyielding and relentless. It is far to long, and makes the combat feel as if I am fighting to take action, rather than fighting to kill my opponent. It gives no depth or sense of power too the player. It makes you feel weak, all of your abilities must wait for the GCD to let you attack (save for a few) and it is just too long. 2.5 seconds is absurd. It lasts an eternity it feels like, especially when you need to Taunt a mob, or use your Shield Bash to stun.
The GCD has already been explained, time and again. That you can reduce the delay between attacks as you progress in the game has been explained time and again. It's an old, tired complaint that is perpetuated only by the intellectually lazy, the willfully ignorant, or the blatantly dishonest.
Yes, you can reduce the GCD by a small degree with Items and certain classes have buffs that will do this as well, such as a Pugilist's Greased Lightning buff. I am not intellectually lazy by any means, nor am I being ignorant or dishonest. There is no need for such harsh allegations and quite frankly I find that a bit rude. I have not been able to get the GCD any lower than 2.37 seconds, with all my gear and all my buffs. I don't know about endgame BiS gear and Raid level buffs, but I'm sure it won't be much better. And even then, they know the GCD is a huge factor in combat, they even have items and buffs to help remedy it. Clearly it is a plague to the system that needs too be reworked. What the hell kind of game needs Cooldown Reduction gear? This isn't League of Legends, it's an mmo. Global Cooldown should be static and unchanging throughout the game.
I honestly find that having gear/buffs too reduce the GCD too be a bad idea. It is an increase in burst damage/healing and an overall decrease in sustained damage/healing, considering the fact you will be blowing through MP and TP at a much faster rate. Sure, you will have too better manage said resources, but it's counter-intuitive, and defeats its own purpose. Why would you want to use your abilities more often, if you can use them for a shorter period of time? It just doesn't make any sense to me. If you have any insight on why this works and makes sense, and I'm just too ignorant of the fact, please let me know.
More hyperbole mixed with comparisons to two MMOs with completely different combat systems. Which type of combat system you prefer is personal preference, not divine dogma. If you prefer a more action-based combat system, then my advice would be to play MMOs with an action-based combat system.
Oh, great. Another "You don't like it, don't play it" response. You are getting a bit obtuse in your responses. Comparing two different mmo's isn't that absurd. It's pretty commonplace. Sure, they are at seemingly opposite ends of the spectrum, but it was a means of helping display a point, of which the combat system in this game being far too slow and boring. There is no divine dogma, there is no end-all omega point of which all must be the same.
I played and - for the most part - enjoyed TERA up to around level 57 which is when I finally got sick of the predictable repetition of it, along with the annoying glitches surfacing as I went. I really enjoyed the combat system in that game, however. I enjoy it for what it is.
Good, I'm glad you were able too enjoy it also. I quit as well, due too the many glitches and what not, it also just got old. I didn't have any friends too play it with so it quickly got boring too me. I'm glad we can agree on something. It truly did have great combat.
Here's the thing, though. That's TERA. This is FFXIV, and I also enjoy its combat for what it is.
I enjoy it largely because as you progress and get into different content, you find that the specifics of the combat system (GCDs and such) take a back-seat to the more immediate aspect of it: The mechanics of specific encounters and situations. When you're dealing with a tough encounter, avoiding AOEs, positioning yourself for better damage, or to avoid directional attacks from an enemy, dealing with adds before they have a chance to do any damage, etc... you're not really paying much specific attention to what the GCD is, or what rotations you're using.
I have yet to find the Global Cooldown being any sort of a crucial factor in any boss encounters or dungeons, it just feels like a thorn in my side. And why would you not have too deal with Avoiding AoE's, positioning and avoiding Directional attacks if the cooldown was lower? That just doesn't seem like a valid argument. If the cooldown were lower, those aspects would still be in place, and they are staples for any good boss fight. No one wants a tank'n'spank boss. That is boring. But using "Boss Mechanincs" as means to validate a boring and clunky combat system just doesn't work. And you are paying even more attention to the GCD when adds pop and you need to burn them and throw out a taunt or a stun to peel them off your healer. It makes the battle seem agonizing and annoying rather than fun, strategic, and thought out.
"Ok, I know the adds are coming soon, I better have my taunt and Flash ready to go... Ok, here they go... *You cast flash, but 2 of the adds didn't get hit by it as the Archer and CNJ drew aggro before it landed"
Now you have to wait up to 7 seconds to peel those mobs. Not because it's a hard fight, or you are bad, but simply because aggro happens. And you are being punished severely for it. Yeah, I know, Archer should have waited to throw out deeps on those adds, but you can't really ask the healer to stop healing.
When I was doing a Guildhest the other night that involved dealing with a main enemy that would randomly place a time-delayed AOE on a group member, while having a number of adds coming out to aid him, while also having blue flames popping up that had to be extinguished (without interruption) in order to weaken him to attacks... I wasn't focusing on "what's the cool-down of my attacks, and what rotation should I be using". I was focusing on dealing with the situations at hand.
People keep putting all this focus on "how basic the combat system is", with special focus on the lower levels; as though they expect to jump into the game at level 1 having all their level 50 abilities and content available to them. No MMO does this. Name me a MMO that starts you off at level 1 with all the options of combat, and the pacing, variety and challenge of end-game combat you'd expect to have by level cap. There isn't one. Funny how, in their rants, people seem to always ignore this detail, even when it's pointed out to them, and I have pointed it out to many.
I have all classes to level 20+, except for like, mining and blacksmithing, and my GLD is level 35. The combat now is just as slow and boring as it was at level 4, I just have a few more skills to use. Having more abilities doesn't amplify the combat systems fun factor, it just gives you more spells to use. None of which are grand or memorable, and they are all pretty lack luster. I don't want access too all my abilities at level 10, I want them too be spread out at a good pace so I feel like I am earning something and my character is progressing and becoming stronger. Aside from 1 measly ass stat point every level or so, the character progression in this game is tits. There is no sort of customization other than that silly stat point, and which skills you cross class with. Maybe this will change when they implement Jobs, but it's too soon too say for sure about that. And when I say 'basic' combat system, I mean this.
Skill one, Skill Two, Skill three, maybe use skill 4 or 5 if you need too, but you don't really, so skill one, skill two... etc, etc.
For example, in WoW, Devestate has a 30% chance to instantly refresh the cooldown of Shield Slam. ( This was a few years ago, don't crucify my if it's changed. There are no sort of mechanics like that in this game. Nothing at all even remotely similar. If they were too add in similar sort of mechanics, it would add a lot of depth too the combat system instantly, and be a lot more fun and have more meaning too your abilities, here are some quick suggestions off the top of my head.
When you cast Rampart, the next Flash cast within 4 seconds will also apply a searing burn to enemies hit, causing them to take 160 Efficiency over the next 12 seconds.
After casting casting Provoke, your next Shield Lob within 6 seconds will hit up too two additional targets and cause them too take 25% additional damage from your Fast Blade, Savage Blade and Riot Blade.
When you deal damage with Fast Blade, there is a 30% chance your next Savage Blade will immediately be ready to use at no TP cost, and hit up to two additional targets, or your next Riot blade will restore 200% additional MP and heal you for the same amount.
That is what I mean by 'basic' combat. It's not deep and has very little synergy between skills. It provides more options, more strategy and in the end, more fun. No body wants to spam their skill rotation until the sun goes down. It's just not fun, exciting, nor thrilling in any way.
The early levels of a game (some would argue every level up to cap, which I disagree with) are meant to ease new players (to the MMO in particular, or genre in general) into the game. They are designed simply and basically on purpose. This should be rather obvious to anyone who's played MMOs before as, again, no MMO starts off by throwing you in the deep end. That this very basic and quite logical detail eludes so many people, so often, is really quite saddening.
What's funny, and telling, about that, is every time I've brought it up, or challenged someone to refute it.. they've completely avoided it. If they were quoting me, they omitted that bit from their quote. Yet, they kept arguing the point as though I'd said nothing at all. Rather than acknowledging that I had a point, they chose to ignore it and proceed as though they hadn't been challenged. That, my friends, is called intellectual dishonesty.. and it seems to overrun gaming forums.
I don't want to be thrown into chaos at level 1, I just want a steady pace for my questing and leveling experience, and I want to engage in battle sooner than level three lolz. I agree, the beginning of any mmo is pretty slow and leisurely. Guild Wars 2 probably had the most intense intro to the game for an MMO, they did a really good job with that aspect and it was a lot of fun. I even died a couple times, I'll admit it, they kinda did throw you into the deep end, at least with the Sylvari and Tiger people classes, can't remember their name.
More hyperbole. Surprise, surprise. The simpler 'kill and collect' quests only happen in the first set of quests you'll receive, either on the main storyline or in your class quests, etc. They phase out around level 5 or so and become more varied. Either you didn't get that far, or you did and are just being dishonest here.
I'm sorry you don't like the way I describe things and you label them as hyperbole. It's just a way of descriptive writing that gives more weight too the words, rather than just being like "It wasn't fun i don't like it" it gives a sense of what I was feeling at the time and how I reacted internally. After completing the entire Beta Quest line, I can attest most of the quests consisted of Teleporting back and forth between camps and towns and talking to people. Like, I would say a good 70% of the quests I did were "Go talk to Frank in Drybone camp." So, I go and talk to Frank, sit through 11 pages of diablogue, and then Frank tells me "Ey, go talks to the guys who gave yous this quests, eh?" so then I teleport back to Ul'Dah Adventurers guild and the process repeats. Occasionally there are the big quests where Bandits try to kill you and you and a couple NPC's have to stave them off, but I can only recall maybe 4 of those sort of quests. I have no problems with "Go kill 12 Mobs and bring me some of their blood" type of quests. It's a lot better than running back and forth talking to people.
More hyperbole and dishonest misrepresentation. I'm noticing a pattern here.
There are lots of quests in the game. All over the place. More open up as you level - even back in locations you've already been through. I've leveled up on multiple classes, using quests as a primary vehicle, only doing other things on the side for some variety. I still have more to do, and will have even more to do in full release and as the game develops down the road.
Yes, the hunting log requires you to go locate and kill a small number of certain mob types. That's why it's called a 'Hunting Log'. 'cause you're "hunting stuff". Go figure, huh? It also has the benefit of helping you learn your way around an area and get to know the location of certain mob types, etc.
It's also optional. I've done only the first set of one class's Hunting Log. Again, I've leveled up just fine through FATEs, Quests and Dungeons.
Uhm...not really... And again you use the word hyperbole. Sheesh. I have done all of the Main Story quests, which there are 21 of. I have done 91 side quests, and 21 Class Quests. It definitely is a lot more than it seemed like at the time, but it really seemed like there weren't enough quests too be done. And if I hadn't done the hunting log, I would have, and did fall behind in level. There were 2 times in particular I had to go do some FATEs and completed the hunting log in order to progress my Main Questline. Nothing wrong with that, the game doesn't need to hold your hand the entire way through, but it was sort of aggravating not knowing if I'd missed a quest or done something wrong.
I'm just going to comment on the rest of your post here, as it's really more of the same. Hyper-exaggerated opinion, incomplete details, contradictions, and misinformation asserted as fact.
Not hyper exaggerated at all, yes, it is my opinion on the game. I did not leave details incomplete, and I don't think that i contradicted myself either, and there is definitely no misinformation at all. Again, I said that this is "how I feel about it." It is my opinion on the game and how the systems are put together. You don't have too like it, you don't have too agree. But to call someone ignorant and stupid because of their views on a game is pretty ironic and just silly.
There's something funny that happens throughout your post, and you clearly didn't recognize it while you were typing it. You're basically undermining one of your greater arguments: the whole "not many ways to level" thing.
You list: Quests, Hunting Log, FATEs, and Levequests as ways to level. There's a great variety of each of those things, spread out across the various zones. That alone would provide a variety of things to do. Only that's not all there is.
You are confusing "ways too level" with "efficient waystoo level." You could do nothing but kill mobs the whole time and you would level, is it efficient? No. But it's possible. Fates and Levequests are decent ways too level, sure, but they aren't fun and get progressively more boring the more you do them. Aside from LeveQuests, FATE's and Hunting logs, you have your basic quests, and then dungeons. I don't like running dungeons over and over, WoW burnt me out on the constant dungeon grind years ago. I am somewhat opinionated in that aspect. I do enjoy a good dungeon once in a while, but as a main means of Exp gain, blech, no thank you.
I also pointed out that LQ's and FATE's are the only way to level alternate classes, seeing as how Story, Class, and Side Quests aren't repeatable, which gives you limited options. Perhaps you are referring to that?
There are also Guildhests and Dungeons. Each class has its own chain of storyline quests via its guild, which all help to level you up on each class, and reward you new skills as you go as well. There are also Grand Companies, which provide additional tasks and quests to help you level. There are also Job-specific quests and storylines, which help you level further, reward new skills and new armor (AF armor, specifically).
One quest every 5 levels doesn't help you level much. The Class Quests will maube give you 10-20% of your current level, and an item you can't use for a couple levels. I found that almost every quest reward item, was 1-3 levels higher than I am. Say you are level 12, turn in a quest you got at level 12, you would receive an item that you can't use until level 14. Does-not-compute. It's nice that they incorporated acquisition of skills via Class Quests, that is pretty cool and adds a lot of flavor to the class and makes you feel more involved. But using them as a means for extended Exp Gain doesn't work as you only get one per 5 levels. I never cared for any of the "hests' or 'leves' in the game. They just didn't feel right to me.
So really, if someone playing this game has difficulty leveling, then they simply aren't trying. Because, by my count, there are at least 9 individual types of activities players can participate in, in whatever variety, to play and progress in the game.
No one will ever have to "do the same activity over and over again", unless they choose to. And if they choose to, that's their own fault, not the game's.
Ok, riddle me this. I have leveled an Archer to 20, a Marauder to 20, and a Thaumaturge to 20. I have completed all the Class quests for them, all the Side quests from there respective homelands, all three main city/suburbs quests have been completed. What now remains if I want to level a Gladiator or Conjurer? Hunting Logs, LeveQuests, and FATE's, until you are high enough level too do Dungeons, Guildhests and Grand Company quests. That is what I am trying to say. You do have some options as leveling your first few classes, but once you have done the quests for the areas, which you most definitely will have done, there are very few options left.
A wall of text is fine. Not everyone is 'offended' by having to read. Not everyone 'requires' a 'TL;DR' to offset a stunted attention span. I love having a good read and prefer a lengthier post filled with details, examples, explanations and supporting (and supportable) facts, than an unsupported and unqualified 'snippet' with no further explanation.
Problem with your post, though, is that it's so bloated by empty and ultimately useless filler, in the form of hyperbole and misinformation. You could have cut your post down to about 1/4th its size, simply stated what you didn't like and why, summarized it with 'It just isn't my game, I guess", and left it at that. But somehow, I get the impression you had other intentions with your post.
I'm sorry you think that everything I type is super exaggerated hyperbole, because it's just the way I write. I am not here too 'simply state' things. I am here to give my honest opinion and voice my concerns about the game in detail and with earnest.
Originally posted by Lydeck Tell me again why this needed it's own thread?
To add a balanced viewpoint to compare to the rabid fanboy nonsense that a might make someone waste $30+ on a mediocre game.
There are a lot of threads that have many view points. I'm sorry you think that this game is mediocre, I wish you'd explain why, but I guess you are too busy championing against fans.
I'm sorry you think that everything I type is super exaggerated hyperbole, because it's just the way I write. I am not here too 'simply state' things. I am here to give my honest opinion and voice my concerns about the game in detail and with earnest.
It is, you write using extremes, and it is off putting to the reader.
"Tyrannical reign" over the fight? (in reference to the GCD)
The combat at level 4 is no different from level 35?
You are literally covering every inch of your writing in hyperbole. It does a great disservice to yourself, the topic, and the reader.
Sorry, but you have 0 credibility in my eyes, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
Originally posted by Lydeck Tell me again why this needed it's own thread?
To add a balanced viewpoint to compare to the rabid fanboy nonsense that a might make someone waste $30+ on a mediocre game.
There are a lot of threads that have many view points. I'm sorry you think that this game is mediocre, I wish you'd explain why, but I guess you are too busy championing against fans.
Already have. The combat pacing is terrible and is something I'd have expected out of a game in 2002. It does its best to hide it with lots of particle effects, but its just god awful boring combat system... Hell it's even more boring than LOTRO, and that game had a boring combat system even when it released in 2007
The combat is fine in my opinion, just have to get used to it like every combat in every mmo.
Further a great fun beautifull mmo. Ppl that moan about combat are just to busy in their head with not accepting combat as it is.
Of course they aren't "accepting it as it is". It's a giant leap back in progress over the last half decade in MMO releases.
People don't "get used to" boring combat systems. They stop playing,
The very fact that your argument was "it's fine" and "get used to it" speaks volumes about just how awful it is. Combat is like 80% of what any MMO consists of.
I'm not going to respond to all of your post, just some quick things I noticed.
Why it's important to bring something new? Bringing something new adds a feeling of depth and longevity. The new system, whatever it may be, would draw people in and get them excited too play, just in order to utilize said system. I feel this game has a lot of well thought out ideas and plans for the game, but they were poorly executed. Like you said, Execution and delivery outweighs innovation, which I agree with. They could re use the same 'system' over and over, but if they don't polish it up and portray it in a way that looks prominent, then it won't provide anything too the game.
The first couple sentences don't form a coherent argument - you say adding something new brings a feeling of 'depth and longevity', but then only talk about how it draws people in in the short term. That seems like the opposite of something built to last; so are you arguing that XIV isn't immediately gripping, or are you arguing that it doesn't have a 'feeling of longevity' (whatever that should mean)?
Everything that is currently in the game seems highly polished to me (though some complain that certain aspects like the map system feel counter-intuitive), so you'll have to explain what you mean there - also what would it mean for a game mechanic to look 'prominent'? I'm not clear on that either. It seems like you have problems with the design, not the implementation, so let's not confuse the two.
I'm not saying the game doesn't exactly have anything innovative, but what they did try and create didn't work, and therefore felt clunky and tacked on. Such as 'GuildHests' and 'LeveMetes' which are basically just daily quest hubs. Had they been implemented in a more strategic and well thought out fashion, I'm sure they would have been an exciting and attractive feature, but other than doing the GuildHest thing in order to get your Chocobo at level 20, there really isn't much a point to do them.
You were either very loose with words here or you are not as well-informed as you say; 'GuildHests' are not anything like 'LeveMetes' beyond that they are tasks completed for xp and other rewards. There is nothing hub-like about Hests, they are more like mini-dungeons, and they are not done daily, they have 1-time bonus rewards.
What was not well-thought out about the implementation of GuildHests? Each assigns a task designed to teach the player useful gameplay mechanics and group coordination skills that they will encounter later in dungeons and eventually raids. They accomplish this rather effectively from what I've seen. What would you have done differently?
I can understand how people would be underwhelmed with GuildLeves, but I think a large part of that comes from a way the player doesn't think through why they are designed how they are, not because they are poorly designed (though maybe their tutorial is). Once you reach the point where you are doing primarily Leves and FATEs to level your 4th or 5th class and on, all the forms of efficient xp remaining are doable in groups, and are made much more efficient if done this way. For example, you can coordinate with a group to all take different guildleves, help eachother with them, and all the ones that aren't yours reward you without using up an allowance for them, so you can go beyond your limits. This is an admittedly roundabout way of encouraging grouping and, indirectly, community-building. FATEs are also good xp when grinded as a group (you can take on all the boss-events you wouldn't have been able to solo, which are numerous). The hunting log is much more efficient when a party helps eachother complete them, and gives more open-world grouping opportunities. Finally, you still have dungeons - obviously group-only content. Though not as blunt about it as they were in FFXI, SE wants you to group, especially as you progress further in the game; anyone expecting to solo all classes to 50 will either have to be satisfied with a very casual pace, roll several alts, or have/make friends who play the game.
Again, you seem to have meant FATEs and 'Grand Company Leves' rather than GuildHests in your last sentence. These have plenty of point to do them, as you can earn all sorts of gear and other rewards by building up free company seals. Free companies will become even more important once PvP is out. If you meant that there is no point in doing regular 'GuildLeves', then I am not sure what to say, since one of your complaints earlier was that you wanted more efficient sources of xp, and they are an option for that (especially for crafting and gathering classes, the xp rewarded is very good). If your complaint is that they aren't the most interesting option, well that could be admitted - but then you're implying that there *are* more interesting options available...Again I'm not sure what to make of your argument here.
"Ok, I know the adds are coming soon, I better have my taunt and Flash ready to go... Ok, here they go... *You cast flash, but 2 of the adds didn't get hit by it as the Archer and CNJ drew aggro before it landed"
Now you have to wait up to 7 seconds to peel those mobs. Not because it's a hard fight, or you are bad, but simply because aggro happens. And you are being punished severely for it. Yeah, I know, Archer should have waited to throw out deeps on those adds, but you can't really ask the healer to stop healing.
I have done some tanking myself in this and other games, and I understand this feeling, but one could just as well argue that a little adjustment in play-style would help here. In FFXIV I have to take an extra moment to make sure I'm properly positioned for my AoE taunt to hit, rather than firing it off too soon. I'm not going to argue that that makes it any more 'strategic', but it definitely means being a little more careful with your button presses (not to imply that you were not). It seems like something like this could be alleviated to some extent just by taking the single-target taunt off the GCD, if it isn't already (I'm not sure, I didn't tank to a high enough level or recall). I'm not trying to convince you that the current GCD is optimal for tanking or that it couldn't stand to be lowered a bit, but it seems like a certain amount of player adaption can take the teeth off this issue to a decent extent. Apparently not to a degree you are satisfied with; understandable.
You are confusing "ways too level" with "efficient waystoo level." You could do nothing but kill mobs the whole time and you would level, is it efficient? No. But it's possible. Fates and Levequests are decent ways too level, sure, but they aren't fun and get progressively more boring the more you do them. Aside from LeveQuests, FATE's and Hunting logs, you have your basic quests, and then dungeons. I don't like running dungeons over and over, WoW burnt me out on the constant dungeon grind years ago. I am somewhat opinionated in that aspect. I do enjoy a good dungeon once in a while, but as a main means of Exp gain, blech, no thank you.
I also pointed out that LQ's and FATE's are the only way to level alternate classes, seeing as how Story, Class, and Side Quests aren't repeatable, which gives you limited options. Perhaps you are referring to that?
Okay, so let's compare to WoW since you brought it up: dungeon grinding, questing, in some level ranges (usually later) daily quests, and PvP (though this came fairly late in the lifespan of the game). Here, you have all of those except that leves, unlike daily quests, can be done continually so long as you have enough allowances saved up, the world quests run out since you can do everything on one character (though there is no rule against making alts), and PvP isn't in yet (it'll be out in the first content update post-launch; it offers its own line and systems of progression, though I don't know if you can earn normal xp through it). Besides all that you still have the features you mentioned left over (Fates, Hunting Logs, Leves) - not counting the non-repeatable story, guildhests (technically these are repeatable, and I've found they are helpful to repeat at least once per class when training oneself in an unfamiliar role/class), and mission quests. Even later in the game you still have as many or more options than WoW (especially if you can level normally through PvP), and more than the vast majority of MMOs on the market. So the complaint is more precisely that you don't like the sorts of options that are available; okay. What would you like to see?
I'm glad that humans come in so many various forms. If I were more like you I wouldn't have had as good a time in beta. Bring on the release!
Also this thread is a giveaway as to how attracted to drama the mmorpg.com posters are. If this thread were labeled, "This is my kind of game" it would have garnered the response of 2-5 or so enthused personages but the rest would just lurk saying to themselves "Win one for the optimists!"
God bless your little heart I hope you find a game to your liking. Post about it when you do. GL and godspeed.
the expectation of MMO players rised so much than a good game now is not enough... is not that every game right now is no good... is that people nowdays are expecting something that will never exist. MMO are that, MMO, you cant expect every game to innovate the genre. Can you tell me how much Action games have evolved? The game have incredible features like All-in-one character, best crafting system ever, gear-to-materia system to keep crafting alive forever, Playing PvP you earn points to buy Skills for PvP so no need to balance PvE skills for pvp, full dungeon leveling system (a dungeon every 3-5 levels), Housing non totally instanced (Housing areas have multiple houses so instead having an instanced house, you have an instanced neighborhood), Personal chat channels (Linkshell are an item to give to these you want to talk, independent of your Free Company), No based on Faction vs Faction (is players vs game, PvP games are that, games, in the lore you are not in war with other cities, races, whatever) etc etc etc... maybe somethings are not INNOVATIVEOMFG, but are so good systems.
I am tired to read "is like others MMORPG" and thats because is another MMORPG. There are Action MMO, MMOFPS, MMORTS, MMOGTFO... let MMORPG to be that, Role Playing Games, and if you dont like them, dont play them.
I agree, people have definitely become jaded towards MMO's. Though some gripes are warranted some people take it a bit to far. OP made valid points and if he/she feels the game is not for them I can respect that.
Personally I'm only interested in this game along with Wildstar, and EQ next. I will continue to play Rift as well and World of warcraft when I can. Though I will probably narrow it down to only two MMOs when the first 3 release. I would have to say the videos on Wild Star has got my attention.
Originally posted by Lydeck Tell me again why this needed it's own thread?
To add a balanced viewpoint to compare to the rabid fanboy nonsense that a might make someone waste $30+ on a mediocre game.
There are a lot of threads that have many view points. I'm sorry you think that this game is mediocre, I wish you'd explain why, but I guess you are too busy championing against fans.
Already have. The combat pacing is terrible and is something I'd have expected out of a game in 2002. It does its best to hide it with lots of particle effects, but its just god awful boring combat system... Hell it's even more boring than LOTRO, and that game had a boring combat system even when it released in 2007
I know. Isn't it great? Finally, a game that is returning to a traditional MMORPG combat system where success rates are determined by character stats and not how fast a player can slap keys on a keyboard. There are other genres for that that do it better.
The games not for you. I loved everything you hate. AND, its goin to have a sub.
Im old school MMO, of all the new games in the last 5 years or more, none have grabbed me like FF14!
The map takes some getting used to, the graphics are outstanding. Combat is fun when you have a few classes under your belt.
The game grabbed me at level 5, I usually play a game to level 10 to see if it hooks me. They made a solid, fun game and did it right. plus theres a sub!
The sub part Is the icing on the cake for me. Its only a few dollars, not enough to kill anyone, but it will keep the trolls down. At least if your goin to troll in a game, one that has a sub, you better be good at it! LOL
FFIV is a classic, throw back design MMORPG, with a fresh new coat of paint. It makes no apology for that. The differences between this style MMORPG and others are obvious and require no debate. No need to compare and debate them. There is no doubt that those coming from games like TERA, GW2, and NW will find the combat and play of FFIV slow and dated. That's as much a given as the difference felt when jumping on a ferris wheel after taking a ride on a new age roller coaster ride. It doesn't mean the Ferris Wheel was not an enjoyable ride, it just means the ride is different thereby eliciting a different level of enjoyment. Why MMORPG players feel the need to compare and criticize is beyond me. Different games for different folks.
I love chess. It's the same game now that it's been for ever. It requires no innovation, and I know of no chess player who is clamoring for change. Is it a game that everyone likes? Not by a long shot. Does that make it a bad game? No. It is possibly one of the greatest games ever invented and played by some of the greatest minds in the world.
The key question is "Is FFIV a good game in it's style of play." I think most would agree that it is. Now whether that style of play is amenable to everyone is a totally different matter altogether.
FFIV is a classic, throw back design MMORPG, with a fresh new coat of paint. It makes no apology for that. The differences between this style MMORPG and others are obvious and require no debate. No need to compare and debate them. There is no doubt that those coming from games like TERA, GW2, and NW will find the combat and play of FFIV slow and dated. That's as much a given as the difference felt when jumping on a ferris wheel after taking a ride on a new age roller coaster ride. It doesn't mean the Ferris Wheel was not an enjoyable ride, it just means the ride is different thereby eliciting a different level of enjoyment. Why MMORPG players feel the need to compare and criticize is beyond me. Different games for different folks.
I love chess. It's the same game now that it's been for ever. It requires no innovation, and I know of no chess player who is clamoring for change. Is it a game that everyone likes? Not by a long shot. Does that make it a bad game? No. It is possibly one of the greatest games ever invented and played by some of the greatest minds in the world.
The key question is "Is FFIV a good game in it's style of play." I think most would agree that it is. Now whether that style of play is amenable to everyone is a totally different matter altogether.
Different strokes for different folks, people.
Play your game.
Is it also a coincidence that the same games that are so fast paced and high action oriented, are the same ones that can't hold any longevity and thus can't demand a subscription?
FFIV is a classic, throw back design MMORPG, with a fresh new coat of paint. It makes no apology for that. The differences between this style MMORPG and others are obvious and require no debate. No need to compare and debate them. There is no doubt that those coming from games like TERA, GW2, and NW will find the combat and play of FFIV slow and dated. That's as much a given as the difference felt when jumping on a ferris wheel after taking a ride on a new age roller coaster ride. It doesn't mean the Ferris Wheel was not an enjoyable ride, it just means the ride is different thereby eliciting a different level of enjoyment. Why MMORPG players feel the need to compare and criticize is beyond me. Different games for different folks.
I love chess. It's the same game now that it's been for ever. It requires no innovation, and I know of no chess player who is clamoring for change. Is it a game that everyone likes? Not by a long shot. Does that make it a bad game? No. It is possibly one of the greatest games ever invented and played by some of the greatest minds in the world.
The key question is "Is FFIV a good game in it's style of play." I think most would agree that it is. Now whether that style of play is amenable to everyone is a totally different matter altogether.
Different strokes for different folks, people.
Play your game.
Is it also a coincidence that the same games that are so fast paced and high action oriented, are the same ones that can't hold any longevity and thus can't demand a subscription?
This is my feeling also. Too many flashy action combat games and not enough meat and bones to keep players interested long enough to pay a sub.
FFIV is a classic, throw back design MMORPG, with a fresh new coat of paint. It makes no apology for that. The differences between this style MMORPG and others are obvious and require no debate. No need to compare and debate them. There is no doubt that those coming from games like TERA, GW2, and NW will find the combat and play of FFIV slow and dated. That's as much a given as the difference felt when jumping on a ferris wheel after taking a ride on a new age roller coaster ride. It doesn't mean the Ferris Wheel was not an enjoyable ride, it just means the ride is different thereby eliciting a different level of enjoyment. Why MMORPG players feel the need to compare and criticize is beyond me. Different games for different folks.
I love chess. It's the same game now that it's been for ever. It requires no innovation, and I know of no chess player who is clamoring for change. Is it a game that everyone likes? Not by a long shot. Does that make it a bad game? No. It is possibly one of the greatest games ever invented and played by some of the greatest minds in the world.
The key question is "Is FFIV a good game in it's style of play." I think most would agree that it is. Now whether that style of play is amenable to everyone is a totally different matter altogether.
Different strokes for different folks, people.
Play your game.
Is it also a coincidence that the same games that are so fast paced and high action oriented, are the same ones that can't hold any longevity and thus can't demand a subscription?
This is my feeling also. Too many flashy action combat games and not enough meat and bones to keep players interested long enough to pay a sub.
Guess you didint really played long enough, as the game is made to be simple early on. And flashy combat is a plus for me.
There are small gold arrows/glows indicating the direction of a quest/objective on your mini-map.
I have not noticed any sort of Gold Arrows or Glows of any sort. I think you just made that up, if there were such a thing, then I would have very little qualms with this map system. I just logged in, looked for a Golden Arrow/Glow, and it was nowhere too be found. Perhaps you could take a screenshot of this so I know what you are talking about?
Not the map when you hit 'M' .The compass on your right hand side up top. There are golden arrows. Ayulin did not make it up. You're not very observant. Highlight the quest and look at the compass.
Comments
You have to be very specific about what you don't like. Not "It lacks innovation" Innovation itself is meaningless if you don't qualify it and use specifics. I will still disagree with the claim that the game is bad because it lacks something that hasn't been done before. All the new innovations I have seen in the past half a decade have come with serious tradeoffs. Most of the new innovations added to MMOs have either contributed to their loss of longevity and replayability. Making them sorter and shorter term games or have pushed the genre away from multi-player and further into Solo-player games, also contributing to their loss of long term playability. Yes, what I am saying is all this new innovation is a factor in why P2P games are failing. Mostly because it's been the wrong kind of innovation.
I was just wondering about your opinion on another game, which I know has nothing to do with this game, but I am afraid it's going to suck! I really like the TES games and the new MMO they are coming out with next year has me worried/confused. Worried because I am so ignorant. Mainly, I just want to be able to explore and kill something that is a computer with someone who isn't when I feel like it. You know? I'm curious if you plan to play ESO and what you think about the openness of the world.
Sorry this post isn't really relevant to the thread, but I came to this thread for the good and the bad opinions and facts of everyone of the posters because I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a game and then not like it. I have signed up for beta on ESO, but not on FFXIV. I've found everyone's posts helpful, even when you get angry and nerd out.
I will also mention I am new to this site and to forums in general.
Why it's important to bring something new? Bringing something new adds a feeling of depth and longevity. The new system, whatever it may be, would draw people in and get them excited too play, just in order to utilize said system. I feel this game has a lot of well thought out ideas and plans for the game, but they were poorly executed. Like you said, Execution and delivery outweighs innovation, which I agree with. They could re use the same 'system' over and over, but if they don't polish it up and portray it in a way that looks prominent, then it won't provide anything too the game.
I'm not saying the game doesn't exactly have anything innovative, but what they did try and create didn't work, and therefore felt clunky and tacked on. Such as 'GuildHests' and 'LeveMetes' which are basically just daily quest hubs. Had they been implemented in a more strategic and well thought out fashion, I'm sure they would have been an exciting and attractive feature, but other than doing the GuildHest thing in order to get your Chocobo at level 20, there really isn't much a point to do them.
Just because there is a picture of Dave Jones in the quest log, in no way does it help getting to Dave or finding his Hideout that (for some reason) isn't listed on the map. And, yes, it's pretty much non exsistant. It does very very little in terms of helping the played locate the person he or she is trying to get too, and once they do actually locate them it leaves them dumbfounded as too actually get to said person. They really could have done much much better. Maybe they will allow us too use addons in this game, and someone can program Quest Tracker RRB Version.
Oh, great. Another "You don't like it, don't play it" response. You are getting a bit obtuse in your responses. Comparing two different mmo's isn't that absurd. It's pretty commonplace. Sure, they are at seemingly opposite ends of the spectrum, but it was a means of helping display a point, of which the combat system in this game being far too slow and boring. There is no divine dogma, there is no end-all omega point of which all must be the same.
Good, I'm glad you were able too enjoy it also. I quit as well, due too the many glitches and what not, it also just got old. I didn't have any friends too play it with so it quickly got boring too me. I'm glad we can agree on something. It truly did have great combat.
I have yet to find the Global Cooldown being any sort of a crucial factor in any boss encounters or dungeons, it just feels like a thorn in my side. And why would you not have too deal with Avoiding AoE's, positioning and avoiding Directional attacks if the cooldown was lower? That just doesn't seem like a valid argument. If the cooldown were lower, those aspects would still be in place, and they are staples for any good boss fight. No one wants a tank'n'spank boss. That is boring. But using "Boss Mechanincs" as means to validate a boring and clunky combat system just doesn't work. And you are paying even more attention to the GCD when adds pop and you need to burn them and throw out a taunt or a stun to peel them off your healer. It makes the battle seem agonizing and annoying rather than fun, strategic, and thought out.
"Ok, I know the adds are coming soon, I better have my taunt and Flash ready to go... Ok, here they go... *You cast flash, but 2 of the adds didn't get hit by it as the Archer and CNJ drew aggro before it landed"
Now you have to wait up to 7 seconds to peel those mobs. Not because it's a hard fight, or you are bad, but simply because aggro happens. And you are being punished severely for it. Yeah, I know, Archer should have waited to throw out deeps on those adds, but you can't really ask the healer to stop healing.
I have all classes to level 20+, except for like, mining and blacksmithing, and my GLD is level 35. The combat now is just as slow and boring as it was at level 4, I just have a few more skills to use. Having more abilities doesn't amplify the combat systems fun factor, it just gives you more spells to use. None of which are grand or memorable, and they are all pretty lack luster. I don't want access too all my abilities at level 10, I want them too be spread out at a good pace so I feel like I am earning something and my character is progressing and becoming stronger. Aside from 1 measly ass stat point every level or so, the character progression in this game is tits. There is no sort of customization other than that silly stat point, and which skills you cross class with. Maybe this will change when they implement Jobs, but it's too soon too say for sure about that. And when I say 'basic' combat system, I mean this.
Skill one, Skill Two, Skill three, maybe use skill 4 or 5 if you need too, but you don't really, so skill one, skill two... etc, etc.
For example, in WoW, Devestate has a 30% chance to instantly refresh the cooldown of Shield Slam. ( This was a few years ago, don't crucify my if it's changed. There are no sort of mechanics like that in this game. Nothing at all even remotely similar. If they were too add in similar sort of mechanics, it would add a lot of depth too the combat system instantly, and be a lot more fun and have more meaning too your abilities, here are some quick suggestions off the top of my head.
I don't want to be thrown into chaos at level 1, I just want a steady pace for my questing and leveling experience, and I want to engage in battle sooner than level three lolz. I agree, the beginning of any mmo is pretty slow and leisurely. Guild Wars 2 probably had the most intense intro to the game for an MMO, they did a really good job with that aspect and it was a lot of fun. I even died a couple times, I'll admit it, they kinda did throw you into the deep end, at least with the Sylvari and Tiger people classes, can't remember their name.
I'm sorry you don't like the way I describe things and you label them as hyperbole. It's just a way of descriptive writing that gives more weight too the words, rather than just being like "It wasn't fun i don't like it" it gives a sense of what I was feeling at the time and how I reacted internally. After completing the entire Beta Quest line, I can attest most of the quests consisted of Teleporting back and forth between camps and towns and talking to people. Like, I would say a good 70% of the quests I did were "Go talk to Frank in Drybone camp." So, I go and talk to Frank, sit through 11 pages of diablogue, and then Frank tells me "Ey, go talks to the guys who gave yous this quests, eh?" so then I teleport back to Ul'Dah Adventurers guild and the process repeats. Occasionally there are the big quests where Bandits try to kill you and you and a couple NPC's have to stave them off, but I can only recall maybe 4 of those sort of quests. I have no problems with "Go kill 12 Mobs and bring me some of their blood" type of quests. It's a lot better than running back and forth talking to people.
Not hyper exaggerated at all, yes, it is my opinion on the game. I did not leave details incomplete, and I don't think that i contradicted myself either, and there is definitely no misinformation at all. Again, I said that this is "how I feel about it." It is my opinion on the game and how the systems are put together. You don't have too like it, you don't have too agree. But to call someone ignorant and stupid because of their views on a game is pretty ironic and just silly.
You are confusing "ways too level" with "efficient waystoo level." You could do nothing but kill mobs the whole time and you would level, is it efficient? No. But it's possible. Fates and Levequests are decent ways too level, sure, but they aren't fun and get progressively more boring the more you do them. Aside from LeveQuests, FATE's and Hunting logs, you have your basic quests, and then dungeons. I don't like running dungeons over and over, WoW burnt me out on the constant dungeon grind years ago. I am somewhat opinionated in that aspect. I do enjoy a good dungeon once in a while, but as a main means of Exp gain, blech, no thank you.
I also pointed out that LQ's and FATE's are the only way to level alternate classes, seeing as how Story, Class, and Side Quests aren't repeatable, which gives you limited options. Perhaps you are referring to that?
One quest every 5 levels doesn't help you level much. The Class Quests will maube give you 10-20% of your current level, and an item you can't use for a couple levels. I found that almost every quest reward item, was 1-3 levels higher than I am. Say you are level 12, turn in a quest you got at level 12, you would receive an item that you can't use until level 14. Does-not-compute. It's nice that they incorporated acquisition of skills via Class Quests, that is pretty cool and adds a lot of flavor to the class and makes you feel more involved. But using them as a means for extended Exp Gain doesn't work as you only get one per 5 levels. I never cared for any of the "hests' or 'leves' in the game. They just didn't feel right to me.
Ok, riddle me this. I have leveled an Archer to 20, a Marauder to 20, and a Thaumaturge to 20. I have completed all the Class quests for them, all the Side quests from there respective homelands, all three main city/suburbs quests have been completed. What now remains if I want to level a Gladiator or Conjurer? Hunting Logs, LeveQuests, and FATE's, until you are high enough level too do Dungeons, Guildhests and Grand Company quests. That is what I am trying to say. You do have some options as leveling your first few classes, but once you have done the quests for the areas, which you most definitely will have done, there are very few options left.
I'm sorry you think that everything I type is super exaggerated hyperbole, because it's just the way I write. I am not here too 'simply state' things. I am here to give my honest opinion and voice my concerns about the game in detail and with earnest.
the world design is nice but the graphics are outdated, even by mmo standards. especially the foliage...
The only thing outdated is the foliage.
Everything else is not.
To add a balanced viewpoint to compare to the rabid fanboy nonsense that a might make someone waste $30+ on a mediocre game.
There are a lot of threads that have many view points. I'm sorry you think that this game is mediocre, I wish you'd explain why, but I guess you are too busy championing against fans.
It is, you write using extremes, and it is off putting to the reader.
"Tyrannical reign" over the fight? (in reference to the GCD)
The combat at level 4 is no different from level 35?
You are literally covering every inch of your writing in hyperbole. It does a great disservice to yourself, the topic, and the reader.
Sorry, but you have 0 credibility in my eyes, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
Already have. The combat pacing is terrible and is something I'd have expected out of a game in 2002. It does its best to hide it with lots of particle effects, but its just god awful boring combat system... Hell it's even more boring than LOTRO, and that game had a boring combat system even when it released in 2007
Of course they aren't "accepting it as it is". It's a giant leap back in progress over the last half decade in MMO releases.
People don't "get used to" boring combat systems. They stop playing,
The very fact that your argument was "it's fine" and "get used to it" speaks volumes about just how awful it is. Combat is like 80% of what any MMO consists of.
Those are your words, i said fine because i liked the combat.
It gives more an oldschool final fantasy feel (in a new and cool way) and it fits good in the game.
Actually they are your words, that's why they have quotations around them.
You know what i mean, and if you dont.. o well enough said.
I'm glad that humans come in so many various forms. If I were more like you I wouldn't have had as good a time in beta. Bring on the release!
Also this thread is a giveaway as to how attracted to drama the mmorpg.com posters are. If this thread were labeled, "This is my kind of game" it would have garnered the response of 2-5 or so enthused personages but the rest would just lurk saying to themselves "Win one for the optimists!"
God bless your little heart I hope you find a game to your liking. Post about it when you do. GL and godspeed.
I agree, people have definitely become jaded towards MMO's. Though some gripes are warranted some people take it a bit to far. OP made valid points and if he/she feels the game is not for them I can respect that.
Personally I'm only interested in this game along with Wildstar, and EQ next. I will continue to play Rift as well and World of warcraft when I can. Though I will probably narrow it down to only two MMOs when the first 3 release. I would have to say the videos on Wild Star has got my attention.
I know. Isn't it great? Finally, a game that is returning to a traditional MMORPG combat system where success rates are determined by character stats and not how fast a player can slap keys on a keyboard. There are other genres for that that do it better.
The games not for you. I loved everything you hate. AND, its goin to have a sub.
Im old school MMO, of all the new games in the last 5 years or more, none have grabbed me like FF14!
The map takes some getting used to, the graphics are outstanding. Combat is fun when you have a few classes under your belt.
The game grabbed me at level 5, I usually play a game to level 10 to see if it hooks me. They made a solid, fun game and did it right. plus theres a sub!
The sub part Is the icing on the cake for me. Its only a few dollars, not enough to kill anyone, but it will keep the trolls down. At least if your goin to troll in a game, one that has a sub, you better be good at it! LOL
Way too much drama in this thread.
FFIV is a classic, throw back design MMORPG, with a fresh new coat of paint. It makes no apology for that. The differences between this style MMORPG and others are obvious and require no debate. No need to compare and debate them. There is no doubt that those coming from games like TERA, GW2, and NW will find the combat and play of FFIV slow and dated. That's as much a given as the difference felt when jumping on a ferris wheel after taking a ride on a new age roller coaster ride. It doesn't mean the Ferris Wheel was not an enjoyable ride, it just means the ride is different thereby eliciting a different level of enjoyment. Why MMORPG players feel the need to compare and criticize is beyond me. Different games for different folks.
I love chess. It's the same game now that it's been for ever. It requires no innovation, and I know of no chess player who is clamoring for change. Is it a game that everyone likes? Not by a long shot. Does that make it a bad game? No. It is possibly one of the greatest games ever invented and played by some of the greatest minds in the world.
The key question is "Is FFIV a good game in it's style of play." I think most would agree that it is. Now whether that style of play is amenable to everyone is a totally different matter altogether.
Different strokes for different folks, people.
Play your game.
Is it also a coincidence that the same games that are so fast paced and high action oriented, are the same ones that can't hold any longevity and thus can't demand a subscription?
This is my feeling also. Too many flashy action combat games and not enough meat and bones to keep players interested long enough to pay a sub.
Guess you didint really played long enough, as the game is made to be simple early on. And flashy combat is a plus for me.
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