Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Will we ever see a pure PvE mmo?
Rydeson
Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
For the life of me, I can't remember if this topic as been brought up recently or not.. I have talked about here and there inside other threads, but it is something I think needs a separate thread of itself.. For the last 5+ years I've become turned off from mmo's in general.. I ask why? Simple, they all play alike.. Whether it be WoW, Rift, or ToR along with many others, they all keep following the same formula.. Which is lets have BOTH PvE and PvP .. That is the number 1 problem I have with how games are being designed now.. To me game design is like car shopping.. Dev's and customers need to learn some simple truths.. You can NOT buy a vehicle that seats 7, corner like it's on rails, go from 1-100mph in 7 seconds and still get 45 mpg....ALL for $18,000.. There is NO balance amongst cars, and as long as you are going to offer a wide selection, they will never be equal to each other.. Classes in MMO are exactly the same..
So.. Can we get a game that focuses on PvE and ignores "BALANCE".. Once we remove the PvP option, which also tosses out balance issues, we can finally open up our minds and create a PvE world truly worthy of the RPG universe.. lol We have seen roles and classes get nerfed or deleted, in the name of PvP balance.. Does anyone kite anymore? Does anyone mez mobs for longer then a minute anymore? Does anyone use FD or pull mobs anymore? When was the last time we saw true "hybrid" classes in a game? All these roles and classes were tossed in the garbage because they were too OP for the PvP crowd.. Not only does this limit the number of classes, but restricts the spells, abilities and skills available to the player base.. And once we go down that road, by limiting the abilities of the players, we turn around and LIMIT the abilities of the mobs in the game.. I used to remember using "see invisibility" quite often, or levitation on a regular basis, but those abilities were deleted for the most part..
As a result we are pretty much homogenized down into a Holy Trinity type of game play.. I think back to the days of EQ, and remember all the original options we as players used to have at our disposal.. From kiting, reverse kiting, fear kiting, pulling, buffing/debutting, crowd control used to make the game exciting and enjoyable.. Am I the only one that wants the hand cuffs taken off and let the PvE world grow? I truly believe that once we focus on PvE only skills and abilities, regardless how it might effect a PvP mindset, we can invent and create some stunning PvE encounters..
Comments
"EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Half? I'd say 20-25% tops
Krematory's right, if pure PvE is not an option, LotRO has the second best thing: a separate pvp area without any effect to the real world (except some mild world buffs), and with a separate pvp-only faction, so when pvp'ers whining about their precciuosss balance, Turbine can adjust the creeps without gimping the real classes. Too bad that's only the theory and in reality they occasionally messing with the freep skills too...
half is kind of stretching it.
maybe 25% max. PvP, oddly enough, is not THAT mandatory in MMORPG's it seems.
No doubt a company is losing out on a large player base though, no question
There is also PVE balance you know and many balances issues that are being addressed are in fact PVE balance issues.
PVP is quite neglected in most hybrid (pve/pvp) MMOs.
Isn't that new Dungeon and Dragons game pure PVE?
LotRO is about as close as you are going to get to pure PVE......While it has tacked on PVP with monster play it doesn't really affect teh PVE so I dont think msot pure PVE players have a problem with that......I do get what the OP is talking about though....Just about every single MMO I have ever played has PVP (some of these for no real reason at all), and often it does feel like it was just added on to appease a certain portion of gamers.
We already have pure PVE in several games including my fave FFXI.The PVP is totally a sideshow for those interested,has no bearing on the game.
As to mentioning the option to have several options at your disposal,i agree i love that about combat,it is what i call depth.However you have to be careful how you do them or the developer will just totally counter them with mob AI,which is what ALL devs are currently doing.
Perfect example kiting.In FFXI they have mobs that use Draw IN,so they draw the entire group into melee range.Then we have all those other cool abilities like Stun,sleep,gravity,bind all the dev does is start making bosses that are immune to all of it,so it is like our players have no abilities at all.Used to be you could have some cool abilities when taking the back of a mob or at least stay out of danger not anymore now they give Bosses huge damage moves if anyone hits them from behind.
I think devs need to put some better thought into their game designs instead of making mistakes then fixing them with immune systems or total revamps in the system.There is no need what so ever to look outside the Trinity system,it works very well,you just need a decent thinking system designer to make it fun and challenging.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
They seem the same to me, too. LOTRO is something I would consider pure PVE, as the PVP is completely separate gameplay. The same with WOW and, well, most western MMOs out today.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Krematory's right, if pure PvE is not an option, LotRO has the second best thing: a separate pvp area without any effect to the real world (except some mild world buffs), and with a separate pvp-only faction, so when pvp'ers whining about their precciuosss balance, Turbine can adjust the creeps without gimping the real classes. Too bad that's only the theory and in reality they occasionally messing with the freep skills too...
The Secret World takes that one step further in that factions don't get anything for winning in PvP. Not that I've seen, anyway.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I praised TSW at launch too, that without classes FC will be unable to botch classes the way they did in AoC around 2008ish... my memory is leaking nowadays
(when they fck'ed classes one by one just to please pvp'ers). Well, it lasted for about a few months, till the first bigger ability revamp, with some of those backed by pvp reasons alone...
But I agree, TSW's pvp is pretty separate, though less than LotRO's. "factions don't get anything for winning" - actually they do, and the effect means more than in LotRO when the freeps have all the keeps. Plus, in TSW you have a whole set of pvp currency / trader / gear and stuff which is not the case in LotRO.
LoTRO, DDO, and FFXI all come to mind, and those aren't even necessarily "PVE only" either --
FFXI back in the day was pure PVE but then a few years after launching they tacked on a PvP option in the form of battlegrounds, basically. It didn't work well, but it didn't matter because not many people were interested anyways, and it had 0 effect on the game.
Fact of the matter is, even when/if you find your "PVE only" mmo, it will not be free of PVP. It may be free of player-vs-player COMBAT, but that just leaves a big void in place of filled player egos. What you end up with is competitive PVE that, in my opinion, is much worse and much more immature and annoying than typical combat-based pvp.
For example, Damage Meters. DPS score. Gear score. Currency amount. Friendslist size, etc... all these things become the new hotness when players don't have the option to 'kill eachother' - they still seek the 'MY EPEEN IS BIGGER THAN YOURS" gratification.
My advice is to check out FFXIV when open beta starts. The game launches in August, and I can tell you already from closed beta experience that this is another fantastic PVE experience with a friendly, helpful, non-jackass and non-troll filled community that digs the IP.
goodluck
Soe tryed that when released eq2,they did say there will never be any pvp in everquest but they soon gave up for the whiners.
Lets just hope they learnd their lesson and wont have any pvp at all in eq next.
GW2 strongly caters to PvE and PvP has no effect on PvE (besides WvW bonuses for your server). There isn't even PvP specific gear, only skins.
WoW, play on an RP or Normal server and you've got pure PvE
Rift is pretty heavily focused on PvE. PvP gear is useless in PvE and they've even removed a lot of the faction restrictions.
EQ2 PvE servers are pure PvE
Vanguard as another poster mentioned is pure PvE
You really do have a lot of AAA options if you're looking for pure PvE.
Seems like AAA quality, pure PvP is the more difficult game type to find although some posts around here would have you believe otherwise.
Skills in EQ2 changed in PvP combat, sometimes completely changing how the skill works. PvP never had any impact on PvE whatsoever in that game, because the skills were always separate.
Although they did learn their lesson, EQ2 failed compared to WoW because it lacked PvP at launch, now they are integrating it fully into EQN with OWPvP.
If we do see a pure PvE MMO it will be from a small/indie developer just like pure PvP MMOs tend to come from that sector.
The Big publishers want to appeal to as many people as possible to recoup their investments capital quickly.The Brodudes who think PvP should be in every game are too large a demographic to ignore,as are those of us who like variety in our MMOs and enjoy both PvE and PvP.
Just my opinion of course.
CoH began as both purely PVE and Lootless. A couple of those things that modern players like to insist cannot exist in a working title.
As happens to older titles, it evolved new systems as it aged (usually expressed as 'caved in to the whiners' or 'wanted to make more money', depending who you ask).
A lot of the precursors to MMOs were PVE only, too. Most MUDs, in fact.
But as someone pointed out upthread, no PVP does not mean you won't see balance changes and discussion.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Oh, is that why EQ2 'failed' at launch?
I've seen a couple of lot of different theories on that one, don't think I've seen 'lack of pvp' take the blame before...particularly considering WoW's state in early Vanilla...not sure you could call that brawling-on-the-road PVP at all, really. Still, some people do remember it with great fondness, even nine years later.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.