Keep in mind the reason I tend to not believe this, is because this is the exact opposite of what Zenimax has said themselves. I just feel it's odd for them to say one thing and do the opposite instead. Why would they do that? They exist just to fool everyone and make a bad game? Makes a lot of sense.
Keep in mind the reason I tend to not believe this, is because this is the exact opposite of what Zenimax has said themselves. I just feel it's odd for them to say one thing and do the opposite instead. Why would they do that? They exist just to fool everyone and make a bad game? Makes a lot of sense.
Lol, are you serious, how long have you been around mmo's and the devs who make them?
Keep in mind the reason I tend to not believe this, is because this is the exact opposite of what Zenimax has said themselves. I just feel it's odd for them to say one thing and do the opposite instead. Why would they do that? They exist just to fool everyone and make a bad game? Makes a lot of sense.
Lol, are you serious, how long have you been around mmo's and the devs who make them?
Remember BioWare and SWTOR.
Didn't play that. Actually, I been around mmos for a while and I know what you mean. However, this isn't exactly the typical mmo, nor the typical mmo company we are talking about here. But you know what, you are right. I probably really should expect the game to be the complete opposite of what they say since many other mmo companies do that too.
IMO WoW had a ton of nooks and crannys, for how theme parked they made Azeroth. So I hope this game has them. Skooma dens, camps with crazy travellers that give you strange tasks, notes with information about hidden treasure - All this good stuff should be included!
I whole-heartedly agree. Exploration and dungeon finding are the biggest things that attract me to an RPGMMO. That's the main thing that I loved so much about the WoW universe was that there were so many places to go and so much to do. Even after being on my 3rd and 4th characters I could stumble across something I had never run into in the ones before. But dungeons are the climax of that experience and go hand in hand with exploration. I'm not talking about multi-man instanced dungeons, but the micro dungeons, and imo, that's where WoW really nailed it, as they had the best dungeons I've ever seen, and they TONS of micro dungeons for you to run around in, and it's in those areas where you can really get lost. Stromguard, the wizard's tower in Red Ridge, the tombs in the Ravenhill cemetary in Duskwood are some of the more popular ones. I can't tell you how many hours I spend in the Duskwood cemetary. But were countless myraid dungeons all over the world in the form of tombs, caves, towers and sunken ships. Those places are where I found the immersion into the world the greatest.
The funny thing about Skyrim is the emptiness, there was hardly anything to encounter in most of the "open world". Small animals every few minutes and a few guards now and then is not a fun game. The quests were bare bones and boring, even Oblivion was more fun. All people end up doing is following the icons , it doesn't much matter what the icons ended up being, they were still just hundreds of checkpoints in a very linear gameplay model.
Also, who compares a beautifully made game series like The Elder Scrolls to something so underwhelming nubile as World of Warcraft?
While I agree, the biggest reason people don't get sidetracked playing MMORPGs isn't that the world is different so much as because of the nature of the game. What I mean is the presence of other players creates a keep up with the Jones's kind of attitude that leads to players being more goal orientated. Competition makes you feel as if I spend 2 hours just screwing around, you will fall behind your friends.
In Skyrim I am out in the world by myself, I don't have to worry about somebody grabbing that resource before me, or having to wait for a boss to respawn, or somebody taking that chest before me. With other players swarming around you, it is going to be very hard to capture that experience, because their is constant pressure to be first or to grab something or do something before somebody else does. Also because it is hard to feel like an explorer breaking new ground in some undiscovered crook, when you have 10 elves bunny hopping around on the hill next to you.
This is why I like harvesting/crafting so much .... you can just wander the world, harvesting, and get lost. The ideal case is where I can harvest/craft arrows, or ammo or something.
Go out, shoot arrows and kill stuff, while hunting for more arrow materials to craft more arrows with. Get lost in the process, and discover something off the trail.
Keep in mind the reason I tend to not believe this, is because this is the exact opposite of what Zenimax has said themselves. I just feel it's odd for them to say one thing and do the opposite instead. Why would they do that? They exist just to fool everyone and make a bad game? Makes a lot of sense.
Developers are the least likely to take there word on something in a game they are designing. This is a well known fact. Why do you think there is a term for it, called: "Dev Speak". I feel sad for anyone who believe word for word what a developers says.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
The funny thing about Skyrim is the emptiness, there was hardly anything to encounter in most of the "open world". Small animals every few minutes and a few guards now and then is not a fun game. The quests were bare bones and boring, even Oblivion was more fun. All people end up doing is following the icons , it doesn't much matter what the icons ended up being, they were still just hundreds of checkpoints in a very linear gameplay model.
Also, who compares a beautifully made game series like The Elder Scrolls to something so underwhelming nubile as World of Warcraft?
Did we even play the same game? I could literally walk a hundred feet and have 2 or 3 "point's of Interest" on my compass for me to explore.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by kedara Exploration is nice, but what are the limitations on killing NPCs?
exactly.
this is why TES does not belong as a MMO.
killing, stalking, and robbing npc's is what makes TES an amazing rpg. i've never made a character that did not have sneak as a main skill.
they won't emulate the same experience online , and I would wager that the modding community has more creativity than the sister-company who is just using the IP because of how popular TES is. seriously... nothing is the same but the lent-out names and titles.
do yourself a favor and don't even leave Skyrim, because you will not get a newer and better TES until BETHESDA makes TES-6.
they are making a rail-road game for pvpers and linear gamers. nothing more.
No, you know what, I am going to stick to what I believe. Why? Because not a single person who has had a negative out look on this game has been able to actually show proof.
The least person I believe is azzamasin, because as usual, always here telling everyone how crappy the game is. Borderline conspiracy theorist XD.
"Im telling you Maaaaann ... they exist ... they exist maaaan .. and the government is just hiding it from you. Also ... Also .. that Elder Scrolls Online game maaaan is going to suck. I have seen things man. I have seen things!"
*coughs*
The fact you come on here so much just to rag on the game all the time, makes me actually believe you less. Actually this is a common scenario, the more you do it the less you are taken serious. People get tired of hearing the same thing over and over again.
No, you know what, I am going to stick to what I believe. Why? Because not a single person who has had a negative out look on this game has been able to actually show proof.
The least person I believe is azzamasin, because as usual, always here telling everyone how crappy the game is. Borderline conspiracy theorist XD.
"Im telling you Maaaaann ... they exist ... they exist maaaan .. and the government is just hiding it from you. Also ... Also .. that Elder Scrolls Online game maaaan is going to suck. I have seen things man. I have seen things!"
*coughs*
The fact you come on here so much just to rag on the game all the time, makes me actually believe you less. Actually this is a common scenario, the more you do it the less you are taken serious. People get tired of hearing the same thing over and over again.
That's fine, live in your shell and turn the radio up so you can't hear anyone's issue with the game but by all means do not come here bitching and complaining 2 or 3 months post launch and the majority of the player base has left because there's no endgame or that the game's exploration centric open world content feels nothing like Skyrim.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
No, you know what, I am going to stick to what I believe. Why? Because not a single person who has had a negative out look on this game has been able to actually show proof.
The least person I believe is azzamasin, because as usual, always here telling everyone how crappy the game is. Borderline conspiracy theorist XD.
"Im telling you Maaaaann ... they exist ... they exist maaaan .. and the government is just hiding it from you. Also ... Also .. that Elder Scrolls Online game maaaan is going to suck. I have seen things man. I have seen things!"
*coughs*
The fact you come on here so much just to rag on the game all the time, makes me actually believe you less. Actually this is a common scenario, the more you do it the less you are taken serious. People get tired of hearing the same thing over and over again.
That's fine, live in your shell and turn the radio up so you can't hear anyone's issue with the game but by all means do not come here bitching and complaining 2 or 3 months post launch and the majority of the player base has left because there's no endgame or that the game's exploration centric open world content feels nothing like Skyrim.
lol I don't complain, if a game sucks, I simply just leave.
[quote]I’d like to see more random content added to ESO’s PVE, and the Dark Anchors are something we haven’t really seen that much of but they’re one solution to this (though they don’t happen in the starting experience). But more than “dynamic” stuff, I’d really like to know if the “real world” of Tamriel opens up into a more explorable and less directed experience. You can, from what I’ve played, go just about anywhere and the landscape does not feel like you’re fenced in. But what good is all that space if there’s not a lot of little minutia to uncover? More than just treasure chests in the wild, I want to see caves without a quest tied to them, dwemer ruins that go deep into the earth and offer chances to discover something I’d not ordinarily find if I just followed the storyline.[/quote]
The same here. I like to twink and to replay the game not twice but often. If it is each time exactly the same I will wander off soon. So hopefully some dynamic stuff or optional zones like in Guild Wars 2 will be found in the game as well.
One thing everyone seems to be ignoring. Developers do not know howe to make a game with exploration. Even Single player games like Skyrim wasn't true exploration. Developers make combat oriented games. You can not explore without being swarmed by enemies every 30 seconds. In Skyrim how many enemies did you have to fight through to explore a cave, dungeon, or castle? And once inside did you find anything without fighting more swarms of enemies? The same is true for MMO's even more so. There isn't one MMO that lets you explore freely. Stand still for 30 seconds to check your map and you are being swarmed by enemies. Did Louis and Clark spend every minute of every hour of every day fighting to cross the America? No they did not. They had other hurdles to cross but fighting was not the primary action.
One thing I am confused about. Is TESO WoW 3.0, Dark Age Camelot 2.0, or SWTOR 2.0? The developerws must be doing something right if every one thinks it is somethhing else.
One thing everyone seems to be ignoring. Developers do not know howe to make a game with exploration. Even Single player games like Skyrim wasn't true exploration. Developers make combat oriented games. You can not explore without being swarmed by enemies every 30 seconds. In Skyrim how many enemies did you have to fight through to explore a cave, dungeon, or castle? And once inside did you find anything without fighting more swarms of enemies? The same is true for MMO's even more so. There isn't one MMO that lets you explore freely. Stand still for 30 seconds to check your map and you are being swarmed by enemies. Did Louis and Clark spend every minute of every hour of every day fighting to cross the America? No they did not. They had other hurdles to cross but fighting was not the primary action.
One thing I am confused about. Is TESO WoW 3.0, Dark Age Camelot 2.0, or SWTOR 2.0? The developerws must be doing something right if every one thinks it is somethhing else.
While I disagree on a personal level, exploration without combat is not worth doing I will say that there can be other things to do. But exploring for exploring sakes for me is as pointless as grinding quests. Exploration needs danger to make the sense of amazement and awe worth doing. For me at least this is the case.
I've not played it but from my understanding the PvE leveling progression is very similar to GW2 with a dash of quest hub design from WoW. The PvP is still unknown since it's not been tested yet but I suspect it will be similar to DAoC.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
killing, stalking, and robbing npc's is what makes TES an amazing rpg. i've never made a character that did not have sneak as a main skill.
Well, for you I suppose.
None of my characters really ever used sneak and I never indiscriminately killed NPC's. Well, once a long time ago in Morrowind and I learned that the world was becoming barren.
In any case, people have to realize that this is an mmo and there need to be concessions for the multi-player aspect of it.
Just like when you take a book and make it into a movie you have to fit it to the new format so does a single player game need to be fitted to an mmo format.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
For the time being, I'm going to take everything you say about upcoming MMOs that aren't EQN with a grain of salt.
I mean... you saw a preview demo that impressed you guys enough to give EQN the best of E3 award and said this:
"What we can say is that we saw grand plans for the world's largest sandbox and it was more than enough to stand head and shoulders above any game we saw at E3. When Sony pulls back the curtain later this summer, you will not be disappointed. EverQuest Next is this year's E3 Best of Show, and in just a couple months you'll all understand why. We promise."
If it was it me, and I knew what you know, I'd find it hard not to feel bored with features in MMOs that have become so standard that they feel "a lot tired."
As a matter of fact, if I was a developer and had an MMO in the works, I'd be foolish not to step back a bit and wait for THE BIG REVEAL to give myself some time to react. Maybe even postpone the release by a few months... know what I mean? Nudge, nudge... wink wink...
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm looking forward to just heading out into a random direction and just see what I can find. I love Skyrim and all the other TES games, if ESO lives up to what Skyrim has given us then I'm in for the long haul.
Comments
Keep in mind the reason I tend to not believe this, is because this is the exact opposite of what Zenimax has said themselves. I just feel it's odd for them to say one thing and do the opposite instead. Why would they do that? They exist just to fool everyone and make a bad game? Makes a lot of sense.
Lol, are you serious, how long have you been around mmo's and the devs who make them?
Remember BioWare and SWTOR.
Didn't play that. Actually, I been around mmos for a while and I know what you mean. However, this isn't exactly the typical mmo, nor the typical mmo company we are talking about here. But you know what, you are right. I probably really should expect the game to be the complete opposite of what they say since many other mmo companies do that too.
I whole-heartedly agree. Exploration and dungeon finding are the biggest things that attract me to an RPGMMO. That's the main thing that I loved so much about the WoW universe was that there were so many places to go and so much to do. Even after being on my 3rd and 4th characters I could stumble across something I had never run into in the ones before. But dungeons are the climax of that experience and go hand in hand with exploration. I'm not talking about multi-man instanced dungeons, but the micro dungeons, and imo, that's where WoW really nailed it, as they had the best dungeons I've ever seen, and they TONS of micro dungeons for you to run around in, and it's in those areas where you can really get lost. Stromguard, the wizard's tower in Red Ridge, the tombs in the Ravenhill cemetary in Duskwood are some of the more popular ones. I can't tell you how many hours I spend in the Duskwood cemetary. But were countless myraid dungeons all over the world in the form of tombs, caves, towers and sunken ships. Those places are where I found the immersion into the world the greatest.
The funny thing about Skyrim is the emptiness, there was hardly anything to encounter in most of the "open world". Small animals every few minutes and a few guards now and then is not a fun game. The quests were bare bones and boring, even Oblivion was more fun. All people end up doing is following the icons , it doesn't much matter what the icons ended up being, they were still just hundreds of checkpoints in a very linear gameplay model.
Also, who compares a beautifully made game series like The Elder Scrolls to something so underwhelming nubile as World of Warcraft?
While I agree, the biggest reason people don't get sidetracked playing MMORPGs isn't that the world is different so much as because of the nature of the game. What I mean is the presence of other players creates a keep up with the Jones's kind of attitude that leads to players being more goal orientated. Competition makes you feel as if I spend 2 hours just screwing around, you will fall behind your friends.
In Skyrim I am out in the world by myself, I don't have to worry about somebody grabbing that resource before me, or having to wait for a boss to respawn, or somebody taking that chest before me. With other players swarming around you, it is going to be very hard to capture that experience, because their is constant pressure to be first or to grab something or do something before somebody else does. Also because it is hard to feel like an explorer breaking new ground in some undiscovered crook, when you have 10 elves bunny hopping around on the hill next to you.
This is why I like harvesting/crafting so much .... you can just wander the world, harvesting, and get lost. The ideal case is where I can harvest/craft arrows, or ammo or something.
Go out, shoot arrows and kill stuff, while hunting for more arrow materials to craft more arrows with. Get lost in the process, and discover something off the trail.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Developers are the least likely to take there word on something in a game they are designing. This is a well known fact. Why do you think there is a term for it, called: "Dev Speak". I feel sad for anyone who believe word for word what a developers says.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Did we even play the same game? I could literally walk a hundred feet and have 2 or 3 "point's of Interest" on my compass for me to explore.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
It's called "discussing issues" and he isn't the only one to bring this up. If one was savvy enough one could find sources for the OP's concerns.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
exactly.
this is why TES does not belong as a MMO.
killing, stalking, and robbing npc's is what makes TES an amazing rpg. i've never made a character that did not have sneak as a main skill.
they won't emulate the same experience online , and I would wager that the modding community has more creativity than the sister-company who is just using the IP because of how popular TES is. seriously... nothing is the same but the lent-out names and titles.
do yourself a favor and don't even leave Skyrim, because you will not get a newer and better TES until BETHESDA makes TES-6.
they are making a rail-road game for pvpers and linear gamers. nothing more.
No, you know what, I am going to stick to what I believe. Why? Because not a single person who has had a negative out look on this game has been able to actually show proof.
The least person I believe is azzamasin, because as usual, always here telling everyone how crappy the game is. Borderline conspiracy theorist XD.
"Im telling you Maaaaann ... they exist ... they exist maaaan .. and the government is just hiding it from you. Also ... Also .. that Elder Scrolls Online game maaaan is going to suck. I have seen things man. I have seen things!"
*coughs*
The fact you come on here so much just to rag on the game all the time, makes me actually believe you less. Actually this is a common scenario, the more you do it the less you are taken serious. People get tired of hearing the same thing over and over again.
That's fine, live in your shell and turn the radio up so you can't hear anyone's issue with the game but by all means do not come here bitching and complaining 2 or 3 months post launch and the majority of the player base has left because there's no endgame or that the game's exploration centric open world content feels nothing like Skyrim.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
lol I don't complain, if a game sucks, I simply just leave.
[quote]I’d like to see more random content added to ESO’s PVE, and the Dark Anchors are something we haven’t really seen that much of but they’re one solution to this (though they don’t happen in the starting experience). But more than “dynamic” stuff, I’d really like to know if the “real world” of Tamriel opens up into a more explorable and less directed experience. You can, from what I’ve played, go just about anywhere and the landscape does not feel like you’re fenced in. But what good is all that space if there’s not a lot of little minutia to uncover? More than just treasure chests in the wild, I want to see caves without a quest tied to them, dwemer ruins that go deep into the earth and offer chances to discover something I’d not ordinarily find if I just followed the storyline.[/quote]
The same here. I like to twink and to replay the game not twice but often. If it is each time exactly the same I will wander off soon. So hopefully some dynamic stuff or optional zones like in Guild Wars 2 will be found in the game as well.
One thing everyone seems to be ignoring. Developers do not know howe to make a game with exploration. Even Single player games like Skyrim wasn't true exploration. Developers make combat oriented games. You can not explore without being swarmed by enemies every 30 seconds. In Skyrim how many enemies did you have to fight through to explore a cave, dungeon, or castle? And once inside did you find anything without fighting more swarms of enemies? The same is true for MMO's even more so. There isn't one MMO that lets you explore freely. Stand still for 30 seconds to check your map and you are being swarmed by enemies. Did Louis and Clark spend every minute of every hour of every day fighting to cross the America? No they did not. They had other hurdles to cross but fighting was not the primary action.
One thing I am confused about. Is TESO WoW 3.0, Dark Age Camelot 2.0, or SWTOR 2.0? The developerws must be doing something right if every one thinks it is somethhing else.
While I disagree on a personal level, exploration without combat is not worth doing I will say that there can be other things to do. But exploring for exploring sakes for me is as pointless as grinding quests. Exploration needs danger to make the sense of amazement and awe worth doing. For me at least this is the case.
I've not played it but from my understanding the PvE leveling progression is very similar to GW2 with a dash of quest hub design from WoW. The PvP is still unknown since it's not been tested yet but I suspect it will be similar to DAoC.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Well, for you I suppose.
None of my characters really ever used sneak and I never indiscriminately killed NPC's. Well, once a long time ago in Morrowind and I learned that the world was becoming barren.
In any case, people have to realize that this is an mmo and there need to be concessions for the multi-player aspect of it.
Just like when you take a book and make it into a movie you have to fit it to the new format so does a single player game need to be fitted to an mmo format.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
@ Bill
For the time being, I'm going to take everything you say about upcoming MMOs that aren't EQN with a grain of salt.
I mean... you saw a preview demo that impressed you guys enough to give EQN the best of E3 award and said this:
"What we can say is that we saw grand plans for the world's largest sandbox and it was more than enough to stand head and shoulders above any game we saw at E3. When Sony pulls back the curtain later this summer, you will not be disappointed. EverQuest Next is this year's E3 Best of Show, and in just a couple months you'll all understand why. We promise."
If it was it me, and I knew what you know, I'd find it hard not to feel bored with features in MMOs that have become so standard that they feel "a lot tired."
As a matter of fact, if I was a developer and had an MMO in the works, I'd be foolish not to step back a bit and wait for THE BIG REVEAL to give myself some time to react. Maybe even postpone the release by a few months... know what I mean? Nudge, nudge... wink wink...
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm looking forward to just heading out into a random direction and just see what I can find. I love Skyrim and all the other TES games, if ESO lives up to what Skyrim has given us then I'm in for the long haul.
Ratero.