I don't want to spend hours questing and raiding for top gear items only to get a pop-up in the middle of my screen telling me to "Pay 9000 SOE Bucks to use this item. Click here for more details."
"Buy a key to open your lockbox"
lol F2P
Buy expansion to keep leveling
lol P2P
Subscription gets you everything! Until we want you to pay more.
I think your calculator is broken. Do you actually think a free game with a cash shop is cheaper in the long run? I suppose if you just dabble in the mediocre parts of a game and enjoy playing the supporting cast to the exceptional then yes, so welcome to mediocrity Enjoy your stay. I prefer exceptional and exceptional in a F2P with cash shop costs far more than a P2P with a sub. This is not debatable.
Its easy to sniff out the average players and financially challenged. They all love F2P's.
Actually I play all types of MMOs. And if financially challenged players were the only ones who liked F2P they wouldn't make any money would they?
You are correct, but you ignored the FIRST group he mentioned, the "average players". I do not necessarily agree with him, but it is known that a small user of knuckle heads that blow cash in P2W style cash shops keep them afloat. Over the younger generation of MMO player the ability to buy a badass sword or raid for hours to get it and many will buy it because they must have instant gratification and prefer it to earning something.
Actually there are 4 levels of users in most F2P games: the mythical whales (who'd spend just as much on a P2P game legally or illegally), the power user (splurges quite a bit from time to time but not much more than 100-200 dollars at a time and splurge intervals could be months or years apart, depending on game and quality offered), the average user (perfectly comfortable to sub if available or pay roughly 10$ a month, lump sum for a few months a time or every month, on whatever items he/she needs) and the free user (no money but got allot of time, most prevalent in games where everything can be earned via in-game means).
It doesn't really matter whether or not there is a sub option.
There hasn't been much information released, but if this game is supposed to be more of a sandbox than previous EQ titles, and if the economy is supposed to be anything that resembles Player Driven, or if crafting plays a major role in EQN, there is RMT conversion to in game currency.
Not really even looking at it. Cash Shop means items that crafters can't make a living off of. It's like having all television being pay per view. Subscription gives all players equal access and equal footing. Cash Shop games are imbalanced by their presence.
Cash shops don't bother me at all if it is a pve game. I only hate them in a pve game if we are very restricted in bags,crafting combines and zones because they want you to buy stuff in the shop.
It doesn't really matter whether or not there is a sub option.
There hasn't been much information released, but if this game is supposed to be more of a sandbox than previous EQ titles, and if the economy is supposed to be anything that resembles Player Driven, or if crafting plays a major role in EQN, there is RMT conversion to in game currency.
It doesn't really matter whether or not there is a sub option.
There hasn't been much information released, but if this game is supposed to be more of a sandbox than previous EQ titles, and if the economy is supposed to be anything that resembles Player Driven, or if crafting plays a major role in EQN, there is RMT conversion to in game currency.
Game over.
Two words: EVE-Online.
EVE's got nothing to do with this. It's very different when there is no economy established. Once this game launches, the wealthiest players will be those who spend the most money in the Cash Shop at release. And Once they are set up they ill not be brought down easily. Everyone knows the opportunities early on in the life of an MMO are critical and set the path for the entire game. They are not the same opportunities that will be available 30, 60, 90 days after release. Those who capitalize on them are set for a long time.
Hopefully it will be more like EQ2 as less like PS2. Having one weapon cost between 250-1000 SC is not made up for by 500 a month if you have a sub. I don't mind cosmetics being pay only (though even EQ2 is putting cosmetics into in game recipes) but not to the extent PS2 has it.
I don't think they will either. EQN will have a larger audience so I hope they don't do that to armor and weapons.
Several of you have now mentioned that SOE games all present sub options, as if this completely dismisses the F2P/Cash shop argument. While it is technically true that they have offered sub options, it doesn't mean you get to completely ignore the cash shop. Newer games such as PS2 offer a sub option but look below at what you get, a few boosts, extra character slots, and $5 worth of station cash a month.... so you can spend that in the cash shop...
Daily Members-Only Sales (in the cash shop)
500 Station Cash each month*** (to spend in the cash shop)
25-50% increased resource gain
25-50% increased XP gain
Increased passive cert point gain
Additional Character Slots
In older games that were built with the P2P model (such as EQ and EQ2) they have dedicated all their newest and best art assets to the cash shops. Almost all the items in the cash shops are not available to be earned in the game. So on these games you need to subscribe AND use the cash shop. So it isn't like you can just sub to the game and have everything you would have been able to purchase inside the cash shop. We all know that would be WAY more expensive because F2P games are FAR FAR more expensive to play than P2P games. (Unless you are just playing it for a week and stopping before you need to pay for it, which should be called a free trial.)
F2P/Cash shops also devastate crafting based economies. So the game is effected on a large scale regardless of my personal decision to use or not use the cash shop.
When I play a game I want to just pay for the game and then earn my rewards inside the game. However F2P games by definition mean rewards are for giving them money, not from earning them in the game.
If you like F2P, great!!! I am happy for you cause every single game seems to have gone that way (because they cost more for the players). However there is a reason why those of us that don't like it are so vehemently opposed to it. It impacts gameplay, rewards, economies, communities, and balance.
I rather assumed that it'll be like EQ2 and that as long as you pay (or buy with SC) the appropriate "membership level", that the rest of the cash shop is just cosmetics and xp potions and stuff.
I really don't want "full F2P" where you have to buy a key to every dropped box or authorization to use every item.
Either allow some kind of membership that includes everything or do like LoTRO does and let us buy content pieces - buy a zone, get everything in that zone to play with forever - mobs, zones, items, etc.
But we don't really have a choice, so it's just wait and see until we find out what kind of F2P it is.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
You are correct, but you ignored the FIRST group he mentioned, the "average players". I do not necessarily agree with him, but it is known that a small user of knuckle heads that blow cash in P2W style cash shops keep them afloat. Over the younger generation of MMO player the ability to buy a badass sword or raid for hours to get it and many will buy it because they must have instant gratification and prefer it to earning something.
They rob themselves of one of the core experiences of the game for the sake of a meaningless reward. It's their choice, why should we care? We can still raid all we want and earn the stuff the way we enjoy.
I haven't played too many F2P MMOs, but when I did I never payed as much as with a monthly sub. When the game is designed to not be fun unless you spend, I just find another one that is.
The one thing we know for a fact about EQN is that is will have a PS2 style cashshop, and not a sub option, subs still work for many sandboxes such as EVE and makes sense given the way economies and progression work in them. I cannot see how a cashshop will not undercut crafting and player made content.
I thought my concerns may be shared by other here, so we should chat about it... proceed.
Nah, it can't be like PS2's. I'm pretty sure you wont be able to buy weapons and gear there.
EQN will have a larger audience so I hope they don't do that to armor and weapons.
We'll see. EQ2 targetted the same audience WoW did. They just failed. Doesn't matter how big their audience is if they fail again.
EQ2 did not target WoW's audience until long after EQ2's launch though. They were chasing WoW, which was dumb, as many MMOs have learned over the years.
If it has a cash shop with anything that can remotely be considered p2w (weapons, faster mounts, lockboxes with exclusive buffs, etc) consider me signed off. There'll be good B2P/subscription games coming soon enough anyway.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Comments
Actually there are 4 levels of users in most F2P games: the mythical whales (who'd spend just as much on a P2P game legally or illegally), the power user (splurges quite a bit from time to time but not much more than 100-200 dollars at a time and splurge intervals could be months or years apart, depending on game and quality offered), the average user (perfectly comfortable to sub if available or pay roughly 10$ a month, lump sum for a few months a time or every month, on whatever items he/she needs) and the free user (no money but got allot of time, most prevalent in games where everything can be earned via in-game means).
It doesn't really matter whether or not there is a sub option.
There hasn't been much information released, but if this game is supposed to be more of a sandbox than previous EQ titles, and if the economy is supposed to be anything that resembles Player Driven, or if crafting plays a major role in EQN, there is RMT conversion to in game currency.
Game over.
When Im enjoying a game I couldnt care less if theres a cashshop or not nor what would be in it.
When I stop having fun I leave, I have yet to pay a game where the cashstore truely effected my gaming experiance.
Not really even looking at it. Cash Shop means items that crafters can't make a living off of. It's like having all television being pay per view. Subscription gives all players equal access and equal footing. Cash Shop games are imbalanced by their presence.
Game Off.
Two words: EVE-Online.
EVE's got nothing to do with this. It's very different when there is no economy established. Once this game launches, the wealthiest players will be those who spend the most money in the Cash Shop at release. And Once they are set up they ill not be brought down easily. Everyone knows the opportunities early on in the life of an MMO are critical and set the path for the entire game. They are not the same opportunities that will be available 30, 60, 90 days after release. Those who capitalize on them are set for a long time.
Valuable sub option
No weapon/armor buy like PS2
No lockbox or any RNG based open check deals
Pretty please...
If they use the EQ2 model, you have NO worries. Guess we'll just have to wait until Aug 2nd.
Hopefully it will be more like EQ2 as less like PS2. Having one weapon cost between 250-1000 SC is not made up for by 500 a month if you have a sub. I don't mind cosmetics being pay only (though even EQ2 is putting cosmetics into in game recipes) but not to the extent PS2 has it.
I don't think they will either. EQN will have a larger audience so I hope they don't do that to armor and weapons.
In older games that were built with the P2P model (such as EQ and EQ2) they have dedicated all their newest and best art assets to the cash shops. Almost all the items in the cash shops are not available to be earned in the game. So on these games you need to subscribe AND use the cash shop. So it isn't like you can just sub to the game and have everything you would have been able to purchase inside the cash shop. We all know that would be WAY more expensive because F2P games are FAR FAR more expensive to play than P2P games. (Unless you are just playing it for a week and stopping before you need to pay for it, which should be called a free trial.)
F2P/Cash shops also devastate crafting based economies. So the game is effected on a large scale regardless of my personal decision to use or not use the cash shop.
When I play a game I want to just pay for the game and then earn my rewards inside the game. However F2P games by definition mean rewards are for giving them money, not from earning them in the game.
If you like F2P, great!!! I am happy for you cause every single game seems to have gone that way (because they cost more for the players). However there is a reason why those of us that don't like it are so vehemently opposed to it. It impacts gameplay, rewards, economies, communities, and balance.
EQ2 SCS sure.. Just hopefully not as many items at the start.
Vanguard.. NO. Gear and craft killing items in the SCS and F2P users cannot use yellow tier items without buying item unlock items.
PS2.. Definitely not. Even though non shop users can advance at a decent rate now it is still unbalanced.
I rather assumed that it'll be like EQ2 and that as long as you pay (or buy with SC) the appropriate "membership level", that the rest of the cash shop is just cosmetics and xp potions and stuff.
I really don't want "full F2P" where you have to buy a key to every dropped box or authorization to use every item.
Either allow some kind of membership that includes everything or do like LoTRO does and let us buy content pieces - buy a zone, get everything in that zone to play with forever - mobs, zones, items, etc.
But we don't really have a choice, so it's just wait and see until we find out what kind of F2P it is.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
They rob themselves of one of the core experiences of the game for the sake of a meaningless reward. It's their choice, why should we care? We can still raid all we want and earn the stuff the way we enjoy.
I haven't played too many F2P MMOs, but when I did I never payed as much as with a monthly sub. When the game is designed to not be fun unless you spend, I just find another one that is.
We'll see. EQ2 targetted the same audience WoW did. They just failed. Doesn't matter how big their audience is if they fail again.
Nah, it can't be like PS2's. I'm pretty sure you wont be able to buy weapons and gear there.
EQ2 did not target WoW's audience until long after EQ2's launch though. They were chasing WoW, which was dumb, as many MMOs have learned over the years.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.