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[Column] General: Illusion of Choice
BillMurphy
Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,565
Do free-form or classless systems really offer as much choice as we would think? Or are they yet another example of an illusion of choice? Read on for our thoughts!
World of Warcraft introduced the latter example, talent trees, to the MMO genre. Many enjoyed the flexibility of the system. However, over time, talents didn’t seem to necessarily address the issue, with players often remarking that talent trees are an “illusion of choice”. The “flavor of the month” or cookie-cutter builds were still alive and well despite the seemingly flexible system.
Read more of Michael Bitton's Illusion of Choice.
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
Comments
True choice allows me to "gimp" my character if I want, just because I find the build "fun".
I do not now, nor have I ever, subscribed to the build-of-the-month club.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Agreed, choice is all about being able to make bad decisions, not just three similar decent ones.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
Skill-trees like the ones in wow, rift, tsw allowed you to play your character in multiple ways instead of being a pre-selected way by the developer, and while you do run into cookie cutters the good players could go outside the cookie cutters to form their own character.
In rift we had healing clerics running with 3 different builds because each build had their own strength which is far from wow where you needed different classes since each class had their own strength.
In PvP you could run with 2-3 different builds with class for the same role, each with their own sets of strength/weaknesses which is a variation you simply don't get without skill-trees.
The real issue is that many players don't actually want to try something different and instead feel more comfortable copying other players builds, and that's why you wish for devs deciding on available builds like they have done in wow.
I would rather have the chance to determine the way I wish to play in solo-, group-, raid- and PvP-content and switch build when I want to try something new that could fit me better.
I think illusion of choice would actually be good.
The majority of players don't want so spend time researching, theorycrafting, doing tests, and finding out what choices are optimal for them and their own personal playing style. It's not fun. Instead, they want to be presented with choices so that they can pick the correct ones, and influence their character's development, and feel good about it.
I think best games are those that manage to fool people into thinking there are alternatives when there really aren't.
Well if you want to create real choice, then you have to make a lot of situational builds and/or create balanced unbalance.
Situational builds: mage type/build A is better for situation X and mage type/build B is better for situation Y. This promotes situational changes that make it where X dps in not always better than Y and Z. This is why I like FFXI and FFXIV. You aren't stuck with one class, so if you only like DPS then you could freely change to the dps that is most desired for that encounter, but not so great a gap in DPS classes that it would be mandatory. I could see people complaining about not wanting to be expected to level multiples of the same role. Or people who are altiholics hating it.
Balanced Unbalance: Basically rock, paper, scissors. For example: In most circumstances, heavy armor classes beat rogue classes, rogue classes beat mage classes and mage classes beat heavy armor classes. So while you could be a badass dps mage, youd almost always get your ass kicked by a rogue in 1 vs 1 PvE or PvP. Unless you are very lucky or the other player is a dumbass. Now doing it this way would either mean kind of undermining the trinity or just not have the trinity. And I can see people that love the trinity might hate this. Or just people complaining because they cant build an uber character, that will win in any situation (yep that's right it would require Team Work and class interactivity to survive, shocking I know).
The system needs to be broader.
More roles.
Harder boss fights, that require more than the Trinity.
If there is anything "wrong" with the Trinity, it is that it has broken down the system to it's simplest. Which is Tank/DPS/Heal. Taking our options of choice away.
All of this is the core of each MMO. And as we have learned, when it's not made well people don't stick around for long.
I personally like the idea that each character must make choices as they level up that they are locked into. At higher levels, then, your character stands out alone with the strengths and weaknesses you developed along the way. That's what makes you special. Being locked into your "build" will impact how you will play that character along the way: if, for example, you wants a single target nuker, you will have trouble dealing with groups of mobs, difficulty soloing, and generate a but too much hate in groups if you nuke too hard too soon but because of these challenges it makes playing that build unique in gameplay and has its rewards for your efforts endgame when your dps will come in handy during raids. You basically earn your place later on because those using "builds" that are easier to level up will have more well rounded avatars but in this case will not be able to top your single target dps through a simple respec at max level.
Also, MMO's need seasoned players rolling new characters to level up so that newer players have others to party with along the way. By offering a game with strict, unchangeable paths you will have plenty of players with multiple characters so that they can enjoy playing the game a little differently. I believe this is an important feature to maintain the health of the lower level zones throughout the lifespan of the game
I thought I'd be the lone exception but the very first post of WhiteLantern proved me wrong
The systems you mentioned in the column do giving a real choice - to those players who are welcoming that choice. Sadly my experience is similar as yours, most people just want to follow the cookie-cutter builds or the actual "best one".
Most, but not all of them. There are a minority who like to theory craft and fiddling with the choices, which aren't illusions just to answer the title question. "your build is lame", "I dps'ing more than you", "cool, I'm the top on the e-peen chart", etc., those players are obviously not in this minority
But that's the beauty of it, we don't have to be all alike. Just as WhiteLantern wrote, if I find a build / setup fun to play, I don't give a **** whether it's the über-top-optimal-best build exists in the current patches and updates, or not. Heck, I won't even care if it's only barely viable, until it's fun. But that's just me of course.
And for the history arch, while wow indeed had the talent trees, the very same time CoH had the powersets (and later with Champions we received Freeform), so choices are with us since a long time, it's not just a recent fad. Though I agree, TSW has set a new standard for theory crafting
And if most players narrowing themselves into cookie-cutting builds, it's their loss, but it doesn't turn the choices into illusions.
As always, Imo.
Hey even UO had builds.
I think people just want more choices, period.
And they want all of those choices to be good choices.
That is why I like a system like FFXIV or EVE - you can be everything, if you invest enough time / effort - but in EVE you can only fly one ship at a time, and in FFXIV you can only be one class at a time.
Skill based, class based, really doesn't matter.
Really, what is the difference between a Paladin class that can use heavy armor, shields, 1 handed maces or swords, and has healing magic.
And a custom build character via a skill system who raised their skills in heavy armor, shields, 1H maces and swords, and healing magic?
NOTHING.
You can say - well I could swap healing magic for dark magic!
OK, Shadow Knight / Death Knight etc. class.
Well, I could swap heavy armor for light armor!
OK, Cleric class or Templar whatever.
As BM says, it's really the illusion of choice.
Classes and such just roll your possible combinations into easy to understand and digest groupings.
Skill systems just remove that layer of transparency.
With enough classes, all the skill combinations players could ever want could be covered.
I thought it was going to be about every Bioware game ever.
I am 50/50 for this article.
Classless games can make you lose a bit of identity but at the same time, Its all up to you to make sure that your representing what it is you wanna be.
If you want to be a rogue in TSW or any other game, dress like one. Roleplay your character! If your obsessed with the idea of doing the most optimal of whatever then yes you may be relegated to a few weapon combos but no one is imposing that upon you, except yourself.
Your argument far as RIFT goes seems silly. Some nerd will always find what the best distribution of points to get max dmg/heals/threat. If you don't want to use lightning magic. Then don't. You said it yourself you don't mind being hit with the nerf bat or buffed. So why does it matter in this case if its a classless or class system?
Roleplay is what you make of it. Your letting your class title dictate how you play.
I don't see how any of these games are giving any kind of illusion. They let people roleplay how they want to. Now if your only concern was maximizing dps/etc then yes your going to be restricted but that's ALL games.
I play whatever I have fun with and its simple as that. If my raid/party doesn't like it. They can go suck it. Its your time...game how you want.
EDIT: One thing that always bugged me about Class games. Why can't a Mage pick up a sword? Is he physically incapable of lifting it? No. Then why? Because the game creators deemed that Mages couldn't equip them. Doesn't this bother your sense of immersion? In class games. If I wanted to be a mage with a sword in hand. That would be impossible. On the other hand like TSW I can. That isn't a illusion that is a CHOICE I made!
MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!
People will either do extensive research to find the best build or they will get frustrated and quit.
The only real choice people will be facing if an MMO locks you into permanent choices is what MMO should I play next.
true true but making a game with such choices only means youd have to do research but other things can be used to determine if your choice is as you say a correct choice or not, it does make for alot of people giving up but hey if you cant learn from your mistakes then why try at all?
I wish you had included UO and skill based games in this discussion. I agree, that anything that tries to move away from classes is only creating the illusion of choice. The function of a class is to give the player a foundation to build upon that mirrors the players preferred play style.
DPS FotM builds regardless of the type of game, typically leave holes in Defense since all the build focus is on Offense. I would like to say that Tank FotM builds focus on Defense, but they also focus the build on Offense. The Balanced build is often ridiculed on forums when ever it is suggested. But the Balanced build is actual what is meant by Over Powered Builds. The balance often has the right blend of Defense and Offensive, make the class highly survivable and able to kill any class or build given time. This is also the reason for such terms as "Face Roll", or "Tab Targeting Requires No Skill".
FotM leaves gaping holes in defense, these players feel that if they play a classless, skills base game then they can build up all their skills and eliminate any holes. The flaw in this think is that the hole is inherent to the player and their play style, not the game. In order to make up for the flaw in the player's play style, the never used skills have to be ground. This is evident by skill grinding & Bots in game. The result is a character with a low over all skill profile. That is easily out matched by another character that follows a class build profile.
Given a choice, the average human will make the wrong one.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I pretty much disagree because I am one of those types who has always made the atypical role work and usually work well. I dislike being tied to something rigid as a class and I detest even more if that class is relegated to only 1 role.
I'll take illusion of choice any day over rigidity any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I beg to differ my good sir.
My first Character in Asheron's Call was a Sword and Bow specialized character with low Strength and no source of healing, no source of wielding magical loot and no melee defense. He was as gimped as one could be in that game and I leveled him to the high 50's before I realized just how gimped he was. At that time there was no such thing as respeccing a character so after about 6 months of play I shelved him and made a new character. It happened all the time in old school games and was one of those things that made players better.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Games are based on illusions. At least I'm pretty sure my warrior isn't real. Also, MMORPGs in general are a grind, what makes one more fun than the other is how well they are able to create an illusion or a sense of not being grindy(while still sucking your time).
You always hear Blizzard spouting the drivel about fewer interesting choices, and what they seem to always not understand is what makes the choice interesting is not simply A or B, it is sacrifice and the time investment to get there that makes it interesting. Do I want really want A if I have to take several non optimal talents to get there or do I want B which I don't like as much as A but the stuff in between is slightly better. If you can swap A and B on a whim then there is no real choice made and it is completely uninteresting.
Also Rift there are tons of different activities in the game. You have a ton of flexibility in how you build your character to tackle those activities. Sure if you are looking to fulfill a specific role in your raid you may need to go with a certain build, but there is a whole lot of game outside of raiding and there is tons of flexibility to be had. And yes you can make a terrible build, that is why the system is interesting because your choices do actually matter and do impact how the character plays.
The difference between the choices you have in Rift vs. WoW is not an illusion, it is very real. The only important choice you make in WoW is which tree/specialty you choose. After that it doesn't really matter what you pick as like they say "there are no wrong choices" and even if there were you can change the choice on a whim.
Even back when WoW had real trees(before they got snipped in Cat and canned in MoP), even if there were mostly cookie cutter builds with few real choices, the illusion of choice was an important one because you are making progress and you feel like you have a say in what you choose. Having choices feels good, even if we always choose the same thing. Really the problem with WoW back then was not that the talent tree system was broken but that Blizzard's implementation of the talent tree sucked, and instead of making it interesting they decided to just can it.