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Community ?
page975
Member Posts: 312
I guess I'm old school, but I don't need nostalgia. My question can't be answered by web sites and Youtubes, it has to come from players:
Community - I'm tired of getting let down and tricked. I'm looking for an mmo where the community works together. I know their are Dungeons and Dynamic events. I love group based dungeons, every mmo has that, dynamic events are usually lonely. How about the world, and doing things together ? Will zones effect this ?
What scares me is the amount of personal stuff and quest lines that has to be accomplished. When mmos dynamics are set up in this way communities suffer because everyone is doing their own things, Guild chat are filled with questions instead of playing together.
Can I get a few examples of "Massive Multi Online Role Playing Game" type stuff, such as Guild events and team work ?
Comments
The hard thing about your question truly is, "Well, are people going to do that?" Truthfully if you're not in a guild that supports guild events, then you'll never see them. I know in every MMO I have played where I sat down and really looked for a guild that had the same interests as me, I was never let down.
If you're asking if the game will be good for guild events, with accomodating areas and the like, all I can give is a resounding maybe. While the areas are very beautiful if you ask me, and the cities are safe enough, a good amount of the outposts tend to be subject to FATEs, and there are not many areas without enemies.
And not to try to sound like an ass, but instead of asking for examples, why not make them? Create or join a guild that does events, and help them with it. Be active in helping a community instead of hunting one down? Granted, I can see this question being raised since it is P2P with a box cost, but there is open beta soon. You can't just join an MMO and expect people to run up to you and say ,"Let's work together, and plan an event for next week!"
Aim Small, Miss Small.
I understand where your coming from WATSKI, and thanks for the response
I'll give a good example of Guilds vs. Game dynamics :
Before release of GW2 I joined a very professional guild online. We had meetings before release, we had Ventrillo Voice chat, we had ranks. We were all set up for PvE and PvP. This guild was very well thought out !
On opening day it was like a dream come true, the friendliness, professionalism the atmosphere was second to none...Sure everyone was solo for the first few days, learning their character, the game, and so on.
Several days later people were attempting to group for PvE. Because of the games dynamics this was close to impossible. Dynamic Events and easy mode made this very less important to bother. Guild members were getting together for the jumping puzzles, big deal jump across stones with a friend, no real purpose in really having a friend along.
Next came PvP well so much for that !....Because of the games dynamics, they had waiting realms, when slots became available you would be auto zoned into your Guilds realms. Every move you made, every zone you zoned to put you back into the waiting room. This made Group organized PvP frustrating if not imposoible......As more weeks went by Group PvP was less and less...Infact people were quiting the game by the thousands, our guild lost many do to quiting.
Game dynamics setup of GW2 is a major let down for a community based game. In my OPINION its the game not the people.
Ah, and here is my argument for this... are you still in contact with any of these people? Are you planning on playing something else together? Maybe the game itself let your specific community down, but there were some that it didn't. And in a sense, if many of those people you only met due to GW2, then that should be the silver lining for you.
I can absolutely understand what you mean by the game letting you down, and this is the part that breaks my heart... there's no right answer here without you and your group trying it out. Until FF14 comes out, my guild has been doing other meet ups and events, and not everything worked. LOTRO? Didn't really hold our group interest. Guns of Icarus? We logged 10 hours in one day, and had a huge blast, and we'll probably do it again soon.
Maybe I should have clarified my earlier post in saying that. Personal and guild taste is everything, whether it's because you like raiding or RP or crafting or PVP. Out of those four, I can already say I doubt PVPers will find a lot of fun with FF14. And that's what I'm getting at. I hope you guys find a home in a game, but if you already have your community, then it'll come down to trial and error until everything falls in place. Until then, I hope the best.
Aim Small, Miss Small.
It's still far too soon to tell really. As for what we've seen so far? The mechanics of the game do not lend themselves to community at all. FATEs are interesting...but let's be honest, once the fight is over everyone goes right back to what they were doing. Required dungeons would have been a great way to usher people into a sense of community....but we have the duty finder now which grabs players cross-server.
Now, keep in mind I'm not bashing either of these things. In fact I quite enjoy FATEs and the duty finder as opposed to the old school sit with lfg fag up all day system...but being brutally honest...they do make community less of a focus and detract from that old school mentality.
Now, that isn't to say that these things completely KILL the community either. In fact I would often fill as many slots in party with people from my server as I could. This way I would (hopefully) remember those people and they would in turn (hopefully) remember me.
Community goes a LONG, LONG way in the longevity of an mmo. You can have the greatest combat and content in the world....but if there's little to no sense of community most people will get bored, and quickly. Obviously you have the solo-minded players that I like to make fun of because theyre playing an mmo after all...but it does weigh heavily upon a game if the community is lacking.
That being said....players from ffxi and 1.0 are GENERALLY your more community oriented people. How well the game will hold up in this regard will require time after the official release to truly gauge. In beta people are trying to soak in as much of the game as they can, meaning they are sort of rushing through to content to experience everything it's offering.
Depends on how you like to look at things :
-Guild first, game second.
-Game first Guild second.
Nothing wrong with either way of looking at it.
However I Look for game first. I'M A FIRM BELIEVER THAT GAME DYNAMICS SET THE PACE FOR COMMUNITY !...Many disagree, but I could give many more examples.
More later, I'm off to the gym
Sad news !...I was thinking it's like all the rest
Well, FF14 will be fun for a month or two anyway.
Thanks everyone,
Well, that's true at low levels. Since anyone can level far away than 30, there is a lot of info where it's said that higher level Fates are far away from this idea. You have to use your habilities in a correct order.
Obviously, there will not be the same coordination and tactics than in dungeons, but this game is not a "spam key" game, or "use habilities as fast as you can"
I stopped trying to find some mythical mmo that had a built in amazing community. It really comes down to outwardly being helpful and polite in game. You will be shocked at how effective a few overtly nice people can change the mood of an entire server.
Well developers can make or break a community. 3 examples:
Guildwars 2 - Dynamic events, Kill as a group and walk away.
Rift - I'll bet very few ever knew about the mechanics. Both my friend and I played as a duo. We found that we had to play exactally togeather, matching quest for quest, If we played on our own we had to play on are alts. Others would try and play with us BUT because of the chains and quest hubs, they would never be on the same quest as us. At times we would play catch up with someone to have three only for the next day we would be off track.... at least until end game it was a solo game with rifts, again do one and walk away.
WoW- we all know this, cross realm dungeon finder, no exp for open world, easy, on and on, but I don't have to tell you this !
See, community is REALLY up to the developer. Sure, you can play solo too.
@OP:
From the little experience I had in FFXIV 1.0 until cancelling, and then the cb phase 3, I can at least tell you that so far the community is fantastic.
The F.A.T.E. system is a dynamic event system that works rather similarly to other game's dynamic systems, except I felt that the F.A.T.E. system is a bit more personal somehow. For instance, one of them that I did was a giant plant spawn, basically like a flower monster or something. It took a long time to take down, and it was not something one goes up and kills by themselves. What I found interesting about this (again, as an example) over other dynamic systems are a few things:
1) The mob spawned in an area that resembled it's natural habitat. I.E. the environment had other plants that looked "related" or part of the same genus. The color schemes blended well, and the plant monster, although MUCH larger than everything around it (think dungeon or raid boss), it blended in well and just felt like it really was an organic event.
2) Being that the map system (which if i may add, is awesome imo) utilizes X, Y coordinates, I could call for help and see others calling for help when F.A.T.E.S. were too much to handle alone. > "Hey all, please come help us take down this F.A.T.E. spawn at 46,38 !! We'll keep it occupied till you get here!" -- Not that the F.A.T.E. isn't visible on the map for others to see, but, this let's players quickly communicate to others exactly where something is without the luxury of pointing at it with their finger on the map.
3) I've played plenty, if not all of the other MMO's that boast dynamic event style questing, and they all felt shallow, repetitive, and boring. FFXIV is not built around this F.A.T.E. system, so that helps. It's just more of an extra "thing" players can do when they are out in the world. Also, the very nature of FFXIV players so far seems to be akin to FFXI demeanor. This is a good thing. It also helped my enjoyment of the F.A.T.E. experiences more than the other dynamic games. In FFXIV, people often stayed together after doing F.A.T.E.S. with others. There would be good cohesion, and then it's like "Hey, mind if I tag along with you for a while? Mind if WE tag along? Wanna tag along with US?" etc.
Outside of that (F.A.T.E.) the community is quite friendly, and always helpful whenever I asked a question. They WANT to play with other players. They WANT others to succeed with them. They WELCOME new players and quite effortlessly a new player can join this community of FFXI and FFXIV players and find a sense of belonging and worldliness.
The crafting system promotes player bonding and interaction as well as that feeling of "who's that really good blacksmith? I wanna talk to him and see about some work he can do for me" - This kind of thing is so important to have in order for such a community to exist.
Of course there are always bad apples, but they won't last. The people that actually don't mind paying a sub for this game are most likely going to generally be pretty friendly to other players.
Hay this sounds nice, Please understand that the only thing I have to go on is what you guys tell me. This subject is not something that you can find from developers or Youtubes, it has to be asked here.
Thanks, this sounds like their can be some hope for an mmo.....Because we can all agree we need one
I have to say, between these two attitudes toward community, Foomerang's is the one that's going to be more conducive to actually building community. If everyone expects to have quality human interaction somehow delivered to them, or for the game to somehow change them to want to participate in such relations, they are less likely to actually participate.
First you concern yourself with others and what their concerns are (in game, this could mean something as simple as helping newbies who ask questions, or otherwise helping someone out enthusiastically), and community has a chance to manifest out of that sort of thing.
Btw, there's no need to focus so much on mechanics - if there is anything about the game itself that could be said to encourage a friendly community, it is that 1) The IP is Final Fantasy and the sort of people attracted to that are generally not brutes, and 2) There has already been a precedent established by XI's famously friendly community, with many of those players migrating together to XIV, and the atmosphere of the forums, that has generally lead to a widespread expectation of good community in XIV - if everyone expects good community, it is that much more likely to be realized, but only because each player is more likely to contribute to it themselves.
I may be miss leading some here.
I had never played FF14. I don't know how well the developers will make the community aspects of this game. This is why I'm asking !
One thing I am sure of from close to 10 years experiance is that game design is a large part of community building. I even game examples. And you and I both know dynamic events are not community, dungeon finders are not community.
I understand that FF14 has both, Yes, this could be a problem, but not always a game breaker....I'm just trying to find out if FF14 is BUILT BY DEVELOPERS so it can have one.
If a game is made without community in mind. Being nice to players is just that, being nice....But if you can't play with them because your on part four of a ten part quest chain you cant play with them, you can only be nice !
Vanilla WoW I had 25 people on my friends list, same with EQ2....Rift none because I could not play with them. CHAIN QUEST !
I'm in no way bashing or trolling FF14.....I'm just trying to findout the answer to an un-talked about subject. One that could split a game between a solo game and an mmo.
And I'm saying that, although mechanics are important, it's ultimately the attitudes of people that will decide whether there is real community or not. It's the difference between just scattering to the winds when a dynamic event ends and asking if anyone wants to group up to handle another nearby or quest together - and the difference between adding someone to your friends list if you liked running a dungeon with them, or instead forming groups on your own server if you have friends/guildmates on it, etc. Or about helping people on the earlier stages of a 'chain quest' that you are further along on, just so they can get caught up. It's not just about 'being nice', even though I used that example.
If merely playing in the same vicinity of other players with the same objective is not community as you say (and which I agree with), then the limits of what a developer can encourage (just this) do not reach to establishing community itself.
Anyway, to more directly answer your question, FFXIV is, in some ways, less restricted than other MMOs in the ways you worry about. There is Level Syncing, there is the fact that you can and will level multiple classes on one character (rather than a bevy of alts - and this means going through leveling zones again too), there is always some kind of content that people can participate in together.
There are single-player story quests, instanced single-player quests here and there, and the dungeon finder, but these can all be worked around for community purposes.
Thank you for another view Twrule, that was good
As I say, I'm not trying to start any fights here. Without playing yet I'm just trying to get a feel of what I like most in an mmo and thats playing with others. I really miss doing things with others.
I just stopped playing Darkfall UW. To me it had that old school feel when twenty of us were on our mounts riding across the land feeling invensible. In the mornings 6am several of us would be on team speak, and by 7 when others came online we would go off and PvE in dangerous lands and watch each others backs so we don't get ganked....But in the end I found that so much PvP was not for me and developers need to add more content....Very community driven !...And thats what I love.
FF14 seems like a great deep game. I'm really looking forward to it. As far as community, I'll do my part and try and get things going but I'm behind many of you with the learning curve.
Thanks everyone, and have a good night.
Bottom line (at least imo):
The gameplay mechanics of ffxiv do not in and of themselves lend well to community building/fostering thus far. Therefore, it will become highly important for those players wishing to try and experience a deeper sense of community to seek out like minded others (particularly in the early stages of the game...start 'em young
) in order to build that community around themselves. This does not necessarily forming your your own free company...but at least finding one with a similar mindset.
All in all, when it comes to community in MMO's...yes, the mechanics themselves can lean more towards one or the other....BUT at the end of the day you get out what you put into it. Even the mega solo-heavy games on the market have developed at least some sense of it.
OP, I don't want to sound like a white knight but you shouldn't base a community on just ONE game content like FATE/dynamic event like many people are suggesting in this thread. I'll be clear to you that EARLY game FATEs right now are suppose to be casual zergfest that anyone can jump in for some quick XP fun. As you get to higher level with the harder FATEs, good luck zerging since not everyone will follow the same leveling path as you. You might at most have 2 or 3 others beside you while fighting off 5 mobs. You're going to have to start partying with another guy when doing FATEs to reduce casualty rate. Then when it gets harder, invite more to your party (preferably a healer). Now you're starting to have more opportunity to make connections with people from your own server that you might befriend or form a guild with or meet up with again in a different party.Trust me, these dynamic events gradually progress in term of difficulty and doesn't just stay as "mindless zergfest" like the newbies from low lvl areas make you think.
With that being said, I think you should look forward to dungeon/raid/crafting mechanics building the community. You need good friends to play with if you don't want to deal with the downsides of PUGs from dungeon finder. You need to have a solid Free Company (guild) for 8 man contents and 24 man raids in the future. You need good crafting friends to help you solidify your character whether through materia melding (gear enchanting), cosmetic gears, or just a simple quick gear repair. Those are the things that you should look forward to that will bolster the community and not EARLY game dynamic events that are designed for casual solo/party play.
@Namath, very good points.
/panic
I was one of the people that explained my experience with F.A.T.E.S. to the OP, also using it as an example of why I personally felt this specific 'dynamic event' was more enjoyable over 'that one' simply because of the community that exists in the game.
That being said, I am totally stoked for the level of difficulty and group coordination up at higher levels. I do agree that so far, it seems lower levels in FFXIV is far more 'accessible' than they were in FFXI. I guess that's part of the small amount of effort to have a larger player base than just FF fans. /shrug.
At any rate, the crafting, economy, story, and housing alone will be great supporters of a good community foundation.
I'm guessing, as you said Namath, at higher levels, the F.A.T.E.S. begin to feel more like NMs and HNMs were in FFXI. Rare spawn camping, hunting, searching... great times. I want that essence back, if even in the form of higher difficulty F.A.T.E.S.
/cheers