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How can you create community with action combat.
Kiyoris
Member RarePosts: 2,130
This is pure console combat. I made a gif to show my point!
They talked a lot about community. Communities don't tend to work or even exist in action MMO. No mention about community in the presentation either.
Comments
I wasn't aware you had to make a game tab-target to build the community or make it "fun" (In fact most people I've played mmo's with have long wanted something different then tab-targeting and dozens upon dozens of hotkeys).
Action combat has no bearing on ao "Community."
EQ1 vs UO for instance, each different combat systems (UO was not build around the "trinity" aspect and played quite differently, however both were EXTREMELY social mmo's (imo UO even more so, because of the housing and other social aspects that came with that sort of open game).
Life IS Feudal
Dissapointing.
Games with this type of combat, are infact fun. But that type of fun will wear out quickly.
For an MMO to have longevity, you have to have a community that works togather, Roles for a class, deep character progression.
Exploding stuff will be fun, but after the 2,000 time of doing an over the top spin kick to a brick wall, destroying it utterly, it will get boring. Its tactical Strategy that keeps things interesting.
Hope I'm wrong on judging this, its still early.
If thats all you see, then thats all you get?
I mean completely ignore the 40 classes announced, with multiclass capabilities, along with a huge seemless world and a procedurally generated "underworld". Also ignore the statements that EQN will be sandbox and hardcore. Ignore exploring, and necessary grouped content. Ignore community crafting.
Ignore those aspects completely and then, yes, this game will be solo oriented. Yay for not listening?
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Guys, you are all overreacting, action combat is not the issue with grouping or socializing. The game can still be hard with action combat in, just give 10X heath to the mob and boom, you need to invite the whole zone to help you down a rat that you need for a kill 10 rats quest. You guys have to stop being 'EQ widows' and come to the light of modern gaming, the water here is nice.
Well, as one of the fans, I'm overwhelmingly in favor of action-combat... if it's done well. I think it's debatable how many would be against it. Games like GW2, etc. were pretty popular with more action-oriented combat. It would definitely be interesting to see them poll it on their main website. Internet forums are a pretty miserable scale of any gameplay mechanic, so there's no way of knowing actual percentages.
And, with the type of world environments they are building, I'm not sure how well tab-target style would be able to fit in. It seems like they are designing the interactive layout specifically with all the action-gameplay in mind.
I was not aware of this. This is good news then.
I'm with you.
Well they already confirmed that you will have a max of 8 abilities to be used at one time. It seems like they have a pretty good idea of how they want to handle combat.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
EQ had basically static camps and had downtime and slow gameplay, which allowed for a community to prosper.
You're likely going to talk to someone if you're together sitting on a table with her / him. You're not going to talk much if you're doing jumping jacks.
Simple concept, reason why EQ community was so great many believe, apparently super hard concept for developers to understand.
The game is fine.. I for one have not been interested in it at all until today.. It seems very interesting now that I've seen the video. Ppl have to stop expecting things to be done the way they want them to be. MMO's are about getting as many ppl as possible together to enjoy gaming and have fun. In addition every one wants change and something different but when they see it they cry because its not the change they wanted... action combat is much more difficult and complicated than old school combat... old school combat is the thinking man's battle field and action combat is about being adaptable and coming up with solutions to problems on the fly. It can also be strategic depending on what skills u bring in to the battle.
I have never understood the perception that action combat is a barrier to community. If anything shy introverts who desire community and are afraid to reach out and attempt to create one are the real barrier to community building.. Not to mention every one seems to want to judge everything.
everyone should go out with an open mind expecting nothing and see what they find.... maybe they will find good times and good ppl.
My favorite mechanism for community building was downtime between fights at a camp. EQ1 got this right. EQ2 got this wrong. Most mmo's get this wrong.
As long as downtime is needed between fights, then that lends itself towards people talking and socializing while there is nothing else to do while people regen mana and health. Of course this is only true if the party is camped somewhere. If the party runs to find more mobs after each fight, then people aren't talking and typing as they run. So there needs to be camping.
I'm not saying the camp has to stay at the same spot for hours or days or years on end. Moving is fine once or twice an hour to find a new mob location. But unless the group has time in between most of the fights where they have nothing to do but talk, then the community will be missing out on that really big way for people to socialize.
It isn't a reply to this to say that a full group of players can stop and chat if they want to instead of running to the next group of monsters. It simply does not happen. It never has, and it never will. Just like how groups won't stop in the middle of a linear dungeon run to chat, or in the middle of a quest instance. I've played so, so many mmos and I've never seen a group just stop what they're doing just to talk unless the people are long time friends already.
This kind of socializing has to be "forced" through downtime with nothing else to do which would prevent players from talking to other people.
Whether the combat is action or tab targetting doesn't affect any of this really.
Pure Console Combat huh? Do you even own a console? Have you not played Guild Wars 2,Neverwinter Online,TERA or any of the other newly or recently released PC games with the same kind of combat? I haven't played a Console game with that kind of combat since Champions of Norrath a decade or so ago. Nice try blaming consoles on what you think is poor combat though. I guess Diablo 3 current PC only but moving to consoles soon after being out how long now has poor combat because it was designed for consoles first instead of PC too.
Let not start blaming consoles. The whole Action Combat thing has been the flavor of the month for a good minute on PC. Three of the last Four hyped mmo releases were Action Combat on PC only? Shouldn't this be titled Pure PC Combat?
The depths pc gamer's will go to blame poor or unfavorable game reveals on consoles are starting to get deep now.
Aye good stuff indeed.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
It's not so much the combat itself, but the game design for a console style combat system just lends to an independent playstyle and the rest of the game's mechanics will most likely support that.
I can see what the op is trying to say, with simple (console), oriented game play you can't become as attached to the game as you would if you had to think tactically. Action based games tend to be very shallow and easy to learn, whereas tactical games take time, effort, and understanding to play well; giving the player a sense of accomplishment.
However, this game will have a community regardless of action combat, it is just one I won't be a part of.
P.s. Did I use the semi colon right? That damn thing confuses me...
I can understand where that mentality comes from... but essentially you are saying that in order to get what you want.. you want to force other ppl to do things that they don't want.... at the end of the day... if ppl were playing for the community factor they wouldn't race to lvl cap/end game... I for one never race to the lvl cap and enjoy taking my time and enjoying the exp... but just because i like to do so, and others like to do so... it doesn't mean we should force others to do so... what brings a community together is enjoying playing with others....
for example... you run a hard dungeon and the group wipes and wipes and wipes.... so ppl rage quit.. you run another group through and u make it on the first try.... You are so impressed by each others abilities that you ask to add the person to your friend list.... thats how community and friends should be made.... I've done so in most mmo's i've played... i do not hesitate to give compliments where they are do... and show others i appreciate their play style and would love to play with them again.... if they are in any way interested in more game friends.. you would have made several...
slowing down gameplay won't force those who don't wish to talk to do so... they'll just watch tv... or do something else while waiting for the time to pass.
How can you create a community when the majority of people now have such close minded opinions of what constitutes a community?
I don't need to rest for mana for 5 minutes and type out lines and lines of text to feel a part of a community or feel that one does or does not exist.
Community is what you make of it and besides like the argument I had with a "Hater" on reddit earlier: You could have the combat so slow that it takes a minute between attacks and you'll still not see the type of interaction you think you might see because the demographics of the genre are different. You'd have people standing around twiddling their thumbs and not discussing anything. If a discussion would pop up it would inevitably lead to real life issues and not quality role-play.
I have always considered community to be based on the interactivity of the people playing, verbal (or in this case typing in a chat box)communication is only one facet of true communication. IMO there can be just as much interactivity and communication within a setting without typing to or about someone as with.
Another thing to note, many people use this thing called a VOIP system to talk with people they really want to talk with i.e. their close friends and allies. Unless you live in rural southern United States, you'll not commonly see people talking and discussing things with total strangers. That aspect you loved so much about early MMO's will never be like that because then you had a vested interest in the new genre.
And lastly, who's to say there will not be the type of communication going on, especially considering the resources needed, the time investment required and the shear scope and size of the world.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Me: Double Facepalm.
Very untrue... action based combat is just as deep or as shallow as the other type. In fact action based games if done well are much more complicated then tactical games simply because in tab target games ur only concerned with how u use ur skills whereas in action games movement and agility become an important part of gameplay as well. so not only do you need to know what skills to use to be effective.. but you also need to know when and from where to use them.
Actually they said it will be a crossed between tab targeting and action type combat. With not alot of abilities available to you at one time.