Personally, my biggest disappointment is learning that they are basically no where close to being done and that the game we'll be playing this year will be the minecraft version. I like what I saw in EQN Landmark, even predicted that their player dev tools would exist separately from EQ Next itself, but not what I was hoping for. It seems like they can't answer most of our questions about things like combat and PvP, because they don't even know themselves. Seems like all the have are ideas, a world and the technology to create what they're designing. Thats it.
That said, I do love the ideas, just sort of bummed knowing that they aren't close to being done.
I think they are further along than what it may seem. The hardest parts which is complete systems in the game seem to be finished. Now it is about finishing the content which will be some, but by its very nature, not a whole lot. Between Landscape and how easy the toolset makes content creation, I think the game will be progressing at a fast pace now that it has been revealed.
I agree, but I don't want to get my hopes up. I just don't think they've shown us everything they've got done yet.
The engine has been more-or-less done since PS2 launched, and I'm sure things like the UI, crafting system, and itemization have been prototyped out on paper at least.
The bit that worries me is the piecing together all of the dynamic, emergent content generators. I think that's gonna take a lot of playtesting and iterating to get right.
I would like to start out with that I've never been an EQ player, so I won't comment on things that doesn't feel EQ about it.
Full Destructibility - I loved this one. This probably hooked me the most, that and how the world will be in three layers. I hope that the undergrounds are as huge or almost as huge as the top world. I really love that you can smash things into bits, this will be fun when fighting other people. This is a feature that I've dreamt on having in MMOs. The world should take damage and be able to change. I know that it will self heal after a period of time, but it's still awesome. And that you can accidentally end up in the undergrounds is cool as well. I got the whole Minecraft wibe from this and I love it.
Permanent Change - This also got me hooked, if it works as they say it will. It's a good thing that the world can change and that every server will be different. I like that idea, hopefully it will be as cool as they make it out to be. And I like that not every person will experience the same world, meet the same NPCs. This makes good stories in MMOs like this. "XYZ town just got burnt to the ground!" .. "What?!" I mean, some people might never see the things you've seen and I like that. Same with how mobs will move around. You've been to one peaceful place for ages and suddenly orcs move in and make it less peaceful.
A Life of Consequences - Maybe I got into this on the text above.
A Class Revolution - I'm not that interested in which route to take in order to be the best warrior or what build to have to make most damage. So this is more like a "M'neh" to me, cause it's all numbers, at least in other games, we don't have that much information about this one. I always pick mage or necromancer types because I like spells. I'm pretty simpel minded when it comes to things like this. I don't care much how to best utilize the skills, trees, gear or whatever. I'm more interested in the world and my own journey. So this didn't do anything for me. I do like that there is no levels and that you can change your class somewhat, because I don't want everybody to be the same.
The Graphics and Characters - I really enjoyed both. The graphics looked really nice and the characters looked pretty nice as well. Maybe the lion looked like Simba, but I don't care. Personally I like graphics that doesn't look to hyper realistic bacuse it's easier for the eyes I think. I don't care much for games that wanna looke exactly like real life, I rather play games that look different. Nothing new here or groundbreaking, don't care much for emotes either. Actually I don't care for graphics at all, but it looked nice and it didn't bother me at all.
Effects - I like how things were hard to see during combat. Dust everywhere, you might even lose the sight of the enemy. I liked that. And the combat looked smooth, but still early to say. Need to see some real footage from one view only, to see someone actyally play for a few minutes in order to see how the combat is. I've never liked the asian effects game, but this didn't look like that to me. Not to the same extent anyways. But hard to say if it's "fun" combat system this early.
Overwhelmed. I haven't seen such an innovative thing about MMORPGs in a long, long time. Destructible environment? Digging the soil to find hidden caves, magma rooms? NO DAMNED LEVELS! Hell yeah!
And I even like the graphic style.
Agree! I didn't ride the hypetrain before the live event, but I'm riding first class now.
I haven't taken part in the hype-fest that's been going on since they announced the reveal date earlier this summer. However, I did await the reveal date with some excitement. The way two websites said "you'll poop your pants" and things along that line had me expecting a really cool game. Yet I was underwhelmed as I watched the reveal live stream. Below are my opinions. Feel free to share you own opinions of the reveal below. Try to keep it civil and constructive.
So the first impression was the art style/graphics. People lump this into the same thing, but it's not really. The graphics definitely looked modern, but the art style was a turn off. IMHO, WoW was as cartoony as it gets without going kiddy mode or cell-shaded. It had the cartoony colors and the unrealistic proportions of body parts. Then you have SWTOR, which was a nod more towards realism while still being somewhat cartoony. It did away with the unrealistic proportions for the most part. I feel that EQN is a cross between these two games. Overall, the "look" of the game sort of set the tone for the rest of the reveal for me. I was disappointed. I didn't expect photo-realistic graphics and art-style, but I WAS expecting a continuation of the style the two previous EQ games had.
Next we have the classes and combat system. I'm a huge fan of player choice in the ability to customize your character. The more choice the better. Being able to multi-class is definitely a huge step in the right direction and an improvement of the majority of MMORPG's out there. Also, being tasked with finding these elusive classes sounds like a mini-game in and of itself. It will be the main motivator for me to go out and explore the world. However, without the traditional method of progression (ie. getting more powerful through levels or skilling up) what will motivate a person to keep playing. This was one of the drawbacks of GW2 for me and one of the major reasons I quit playing. I never felt more powerful as I leveled up in GW2, because everything scaled with me. I also felt no sense of progression as far as abilities went, since there was a limited amount of space for skills, and I have a very good idea of the character I like to play. So in EQN, once I create my sword wielding, magic slinging, self buffing/healing character what's to keep me playing since there's no real progression?
The combat system being a mix between tab targeting and action-based doesn't bother me a whole lot. I can jive with either as long as it's fun and well polished. The problem comes down to the limited amount of abilities you're able to use at any given time. I feel like GW2 was a horrible influence on the genre concerning this and was probably the largest reason I had for leaving GW2 after a few weeks after release. I don't like the several hotbars needed in games like WoW, but only having a handful of abilities is severely limiting and definitely not any better.
Next we have destructible environments. This is both a good and a bad thing. In a perfect world, this feature would be awesome, because in a perfect world the community playing it would be mature and wouldn't unneccessarily destroy pieces of the world. However, this isn't a perfect world and MMORPGs are full of trolls, griefers, and kiddies. Like someone else said before, what's stopping someone from turning the world into swiss cheese? For those who will actually muster any motivation to explore Norath, what will keep them exploring once all the beautiful scenery is destroying by its community. He said something about the environment healing, but didn't say anything about how long that would take. If it takes too long, then we encounter what I just described. If it's too short, then what's the point of the feature anyways? Then of course there's the question of how will all of this affect performance?
Next we have the next iterration of public questing. I've been on board with public quests since WAR brought them into the genre years ago. It was a novel idea for a genre stuck with either no questing or static quest hub questing. RIFT and then GW2 took this concept to the next level. EQN seems to be taking the idea a couple notches further. Definitely something to be happy about and probably the only thing I got from this reveal that had me raise an eyebrow in interest.
Yet here we are to the final problem and the one I feel is the biggest one for me. He mentioned that we've been playing DnD for 35 years. Yet he forgets that many of us have been exploring vast, beautiful worlds (either online or offline) for over a decade. So what's going to motivate us to explore yet another one? GW2 kept my interest after its failure to capture me in the progression department by having a gorgeous world to explore with lots of nice scenery easter eggs. But that didn't hold my interest more than a few weeks. Just like in real life, I want to see the world, and see all of its wonders. However, unlike the real world, EQN doesn't seem to motivate you to explore in any particular direction. Since we don't know where these class trainers are, we'll just be wondering around aimlessly for hours, days, weeks, or months trying to find them. Usually, a game has something progression-based to drive you on. It could be gaining more levels or even a good story, but there are no levels in EQN, and there was no mention of an over-arcing story.
So in short, if EQN fails to capture me, it won't be because the art-style isn't to my liking or a myriad of other valid reasons, but because once I create my character and look around the bold new world, where will I go, why, and why should I care considering I've already done the explore just for the sake to explore over a dozen times before in much more photo-realistic games.
To spark some discussion and give my thread some traction, I'll throw in a poll.
Good response though I disagree with portions, which I will go into detail:
Thank god Im too old to believe in what you kids call hype. I find it silly and childish. They are promoting the game and it takes a small amount of intelligence to take it with a grain of salt. Playing the actual game should be the goal.
Art style is subjective. You either like it or your don't. I happen to like it so it works for me. While style is very important, its never enough to stop me from playing a game especially if the content or mechanics are fun and/or good.
I can foresee *countless* comparisons to GW2, some valid some not. In terms of progression I interpreted EQN as being the progression itself. For the first time I wont log onto a game to complete some form of content or gear but merely to progress in a changing world. The problem I had with other level-less games is its still based on a level-like mechanic. In those models I will get bored because the construct of the game screams level to progress but they don't exist. This game looks to be non linear but I have no idea because I haven't played it.
I agree with you that gamers will abuse the freedom. But to me thats part of the fun. You ask who will stop these gamers from doing this? Hopefully other gamers. I think its more of a balance question. If there are more people who want to BUILD the game versus those who want to Destroy it the game can potentially grow. The uncertainty of that is what will have me logging on every day. Its unpredictable. The minute it becomes certain/deterministic... my view changes.
GW2 is a great game but its flawed to me. Its world is beautiful but like every single other game its static. You run around a static map (not a world) and interact with timed events. Over time that will get boring for most people, myself included. But obviously the game has its audience. The difference I see with EQN starts with foundation. The game is built from 'blocks' that can change size and characteristics. Name me one MMO that does that today. That changes everything simply because it introduces a new experience no one has ever had before. When was the last time you had that? It provides flexibility an opportunity on a huge scale. Can they deliver the experience with the technology? Thats the million dollar question that only play will answer.
I see this game failing to capture a lot of people. And you know what that's ok. This game like every other one that is out there is not for everyone. GW2 failed to capture me. I can name countless others.
Let the market splinter into niche genres so each get to play the game we would love. I've been waiting for something like this for decades. Crossing fingers they can deliver. What they have shown so far looks promising.
Good post. The only thing I have a problem with is where you say "you kids." As a man in my 30's, with a career, a veteran, and a kid of my own approaching teenage years, it just rubs me the wrong way. But hay, if you're much older than me then that's your right. I say the same thing to people in their early 20's, lol.
I'm in my 40s. Not much older but at my age tend to see those younger than me as kids. Did not mean to infer children but can see how that can be the case.
The MAIN problem is that mmo developers don't seem to "get" action combat.
Like GW2, and NWN both.
A GOOD action combat system has DEPTH. It may very well focus on just a handful of "buttons" to attack, but a GOOD action combat system allows you to combo and to have many many variations and "moves" which you can do with thees LIMITED buttons.
MMO's, like GW2 and NWN, do not do this. They give you a limited amount of abilities to use and give you ZERO depth in using them. You can't combo this and that, pull off moves that aren't just "one" button press
THAT is what makes the action-combat mmo's so BORING to play, and it has NOTHING to do with the action combat, it has to do with developer sthat don't understand what good action combat systems do.
One of my favorite melee action games, Severance (aka blade of darkness) uses a simple 4 button presses, just like the Jedi Knight games used the w/s/a/d and what not to do combat with.
However it does it in such a smart way. You basically have an "action" button (your mouse button by default) and when you press this button and hold it, you then can press the w/s/a/d keys to pull off various moves, and depending on the combinations you press them in, there are a LOT more moves then simply "four."
This is where action-mmo's get it all wrong, they just put one-ability on a key and don't allow players to find combo's and pull off special moves, etc. That's why it gets so bloody boring.
Comments
I pooped my pants because of the technical achievements:
Voxel based
Destructible stuff
Realistic Day Night Change
"Digging" through the world
....
The "Meh" moments:
mobs telegraphing
flashy combat
a bit too cartoony
no word on player driven economy and lots of other things that actually would make it a sandbox MMO
I agree, but I don't want to get my hopes up. I just don't think they've shown us everything they've got done yet.
The engine has been more-or-less done since PS2 launched, and I'm sure things like the UI, crafting system, and itemization have been prototyped out on paper at least.
The bit that worries me is the piecing together all of the dynamic, emergent content generators. I think that's gonna take a lot of playtesting and iterating to get right.
I would like to start out with that I've never been an EQ player, so I won't comment on things that doesn't feel EQ about it.
Full Destructibility - I loved this one. This probably hooked me the most, that and how the world will be in three layers. I hope that the undergrounds are as huge or almost as huge as the top world. I really love that you can smash things into bits, this will be fun when fighting other people. This is a feature that I've dreamt on having in MMOs. The world should take damage and be able to change. I know that it will self heal after a period of time, but it's still awesome. And that you can accidentally end up in the undergrounds is cool as well. I got the whole Minecraft wibe from this and I love it.
Permanent Change - This also got me hooked, if it works as they say it will. It's a good thing that the world can change and that every server will be different. I like that idea, hopefully it will be as cool as they make it out to be. And I like that not every person will experience the same world, meet the same NPCs. This makes good stories in MMOs like this. "XYZ town just got burnt to the ground!" .. "What?!" I mean, some people might never see the things you've seen and I like that. Same with how mobs will move around. You've been to one peaceful place for ages and suddenly orcs move in and make it less peaceful.
A Life of Consequences - Maybe I got into this on the text above.
A Class Revolution - I'm not that interested in which route to take in order to be the best warrior or what build to have to make most damage. So this is more like a "M'neh" to me, cause it's all numbers, at least in other games, we don't have that much information about this one. I always pick mage or necromancer types because I like spells. I'm pretty simpel minded when it comes to things like this. I don't care much how to best utilize the skills, trees, gear or whatever. I'm more interested in the world and my own journey. So this didn't do anything for me. I do like that there is no levels and that you can change your class somewhat, because I don't want everybody to be the same.
The Graphics and Characters - I really enjoyed both. The graphics looked really nice and the characters looked pretty nice as well. Maybe the lion looked like Simba, but I don't care. Personally I like graphics that doesn't look to hyper realistic bacuse it's easier for the eyes I think. I don't care much for games that wanna looke exactly like real life, I rather play games that look different. Nothing new here or groundbreaking, don't care much for emotes either. Actually I don't care for graphics at all, but it looked nice and it didn't bother me at all.
Effects - I like how things were hard to see during combat. Dust everywhere, you might even lose the sight of the enemy. I liked that. And the combat looked smooth, but still early to say. Need to see some real footage from one view only, to see someone actyally play for a few minutes in order to see how the combat is. I've never liked the asian effects game, but this didn't look like that to me. Not to the same extent anyways. But hard to say if it's "fun" combat system this early.
Note: English is not my first language.
English is not my first language.
Agree! I didn't ride the hypetrain before the live event, but I'm riding first class now.
This game looks very promesing, new and fresh.
English is not my first language.
I'm in my 40s. Not much older but at my age tend to see those younger than me as kids. Did not mean to infer children but can see how that can be the case.
The MAIN problem is that mmo developers don't seem to "get" action combat.
Like GW2, and NWN both.
A GOOD action combat system has DEPTH. It may very well focus on just a handful of "buttons" to attack, but a GOOD action combat system allows you to combo and to have many many variations and "moves" which you can do with thees LIMITED buttons.
MMO's, like GW2 and NWN, do not do this. They give you a limited amount of abilities to use and give you ZERO depth in using them. You can't combo this and that, pull off moves that aren't just "one" button press
THAT is what makes the action-combat mmo's so BORING to play, and it has NOTHING to do with the action combat, it has to do with developer sthat don't understand what good action combat systems do.
One of my favorite melee action games, Severance (aka blade of darkness) uses a simple 4 button presses, just like the Jedi Knight games used the w/s/a/d and what not to do combat with.
However it does it in such a smart way. You basically have an "action" button (your mouse button by default) and when you press this button and hold it, you then can press the w/s/a/d keys to pull off various moves, and depending on the combinations you press them in, there are a LOT more moves then simply "four."
This is where action-mmo's get it all wrong, they just put one-ability on a key and don't allow players to find combo's and pull off special moves, etc. That's why it gets so bloody boring.