So..like neverwinter...hey take a free game. .and as we are busy with the costumes for the shop you can make the content for us..and free..sound cool right?. We used to pay devs for that but as we see you so eager to help..we are going to give you their jobs and for free..arent we cool? You want raids?..use the tool..you want ppvp.and sieges?..use the tool..you want nice outfits?..for that we charge..use the shop.
I hope there will be a way for members of MMORPG.com to share their creations on the forums. Maybe make a sticky? It'd be interesting to see if any of us are actually creative. I know I'm not.
Now now children. If you don't want to create content with the Landmark tool, you don't have to. Before bashing it, you should check out some of the better made Neverwinter player-made missions which can be incredibly deep and well thought out.
Sounds like a game-changer to me, not sure what the haters are complaining about.
This^^^
This was not what I expected, but it definitely is something to look more into for sure.
Same boat, but a tad wary, the Iksar graphics are what I am waiting for, its the one race I truly got into in EQ1 and to a slightly lesser degree in EQ2 I would say it would be a slightly difficult race to get right.
My other concern is the BS perfect build crap you get off the raider types, even with so much choice is there still going to be a cookie cutter build.
Lastly just how random are the skills offered in successful story event, if you want to be a Necro are you constantly bombard with skills you don't want or is there a choice.
Now don't get me wrong, I am intrigued by the mechanics of the game, and I am still interested by the game but I am going to have to sadly I am being a tad shallow on the graphics, its to Wow, its going to take a lot of getting used to if at all.
Well, now is the chance for all the ass hats in the world who said they could design a better game than the given developer of the day a chance to step up and try it for themselves (of course using the developers pre set tools and parameters).
One thing MMORPG.com reminds me, is that there is no pleasing the people in this community. Make something flexible, convertible by users, people bitch. Make a pre-made game that is complete, people bitch. Make a game that is anything other than the second coming, people bitch.
I am really wondering if people really are just done with MMORPGs as a collective whole. I am not sure there is the financial motivation for a company to try really hard to break the mold in this genre, as the risk is monumental, and the reward almost never collected.
Regarding the topic, I sort of like this idea, but think it could go VERY badly too. In principle, I think it had potential. And SOE sure as hell is finding a way to save a buck, I will give them that, but I doubt it is their sole motivation. Making the tools for this has to be damn near as labor intensive as designing the world themselves. These tools will have to be bug freeish, and fairly easy to use for the premise they are trying to sell.
User generated content for more than a few players (coop game) will never EVER work?
Have you ever ask yourself why (besides space problems) role playing games (the old ones..in paper) cant be player by a lot of people at the same time in the same session?.. bacause when you generate content there have to be rules and an agreement between the users of that content..so..if they are releasing this tool to make things that you share with your friends..they MUST have separete instances ergo..farewell one of the pillars of a sandbox.
Even more..if you can place this content wheterver you want..is going to be a cesspool..because ruler are not agreed between the users..more or less like in neverwinter..what to play UGC?..go to that instance and you can..but out of that instance it wont affect the world in any way...so..what im foreseen is tow kind of games..one the game properly called..that will be as average as the last ones..and the cretation tool..that will be the player and his friends..the hability to play that content in their own instance (server..area.call it whatever you want)
In fact whey are delivering in almost every promise they made..but in a twisted way..they will give you pve..prolly in the game..they willgive you pvp..in your UGC that people can share..you can destry things..and interact with the terrain (again in the tollset)..so..in order to appeal everyone..they have compartimented the game
in any case..this game was off my radar since almost the beguinning..
PS: if you think ugc have place in a sandbox..ask why EVE dont have it (and i dont mean bases and moons..i mean that you CANT destroy moos or planets..nor change the shape of the galaxy) its because those deeps changes need an agreement between all players..and the devs..something you will never get
I really would like to see a huge world ala Eve Online with no separate srevers, and using Eve Online-esque character generation / tech.
Why must we have such unrealistic graphics in all our games when Eve Online is working towards full body graphics someday like they have in the character creation?
User generated content for more than a few players (coop game) will never EVER work?
Have you ever ask yourself why (besides space problems) role playing games (the old ones..in paper) cant be player by a lot of people at the same time in the same session?.. bacause when you generate content there have to be rules and an agreement between the users of that content..so..if they are releasing this tool to make things that you share with your friends..they MUST have separete instances ergo..farewell one of the pillars of a sandbox.
Even more..if you can place this content wheterver you want..is going to be a cesspool..because ruler are not agreed between the users..more or less like in neverwinter..what to play UGC?..go to that instance and you can..but out of that instance it wont affect the world in any way...so..what im foreseen is tow kind of games..one the game properly called..that will be as average as the last ones..and the cretation tool..that will be the player and his friends..the hability to play that content in their own instance (server..area.call it whatever you want)
In fact whey are delivering in almost every promise they made..but in a twisted way..they will give you pve..prolly in the game..they willgive you pvp..in your UGC that people can share..you can destry things..and interact with the terrain (again in the tollset)..so..in order to appeal everyone..they have compartimented the game
in any case..this game was off my radar since almost the beguinning..
PS: if you think ugc have place in a sandbox..ask why EVE dont have it (and i dont mean bases and moons..i mean that you CANT destroy moos or planets..nor change the shape of the galaxy) its because those deeps changes need an agreement between all players..and the devs..something you will never get
What do you mean it will "never work?" Guess you never played second life then. Their server has 30,000 players all creating stuff in the open world. Everything you see was created by the players. If EQ-Next goes this route it will be even more sandbox than EVE.
Bet SoE even monetizes their game the same way second life does. In second life you buy a plot of land with real life money and you get exclusive rights to build whatever you want on that land unless you unlock it so anyone can build stuff on your plot. The more money you pay the more land you can buy.
Another game that does this is Entropia Universe. Some guy spend $2.5 million buying up Entropia Universe land deeds. EQ-Next has mind blowing potential if they can pull this off right.
For those of us hoping for the next great sandbox RPG game it doesn't sound like EQN is going to be the one.......I think alot of people were hoping this was EQ meets SWG...Instead it sounds like Minecraft meets Vindictus.....
why the hell do mmo veterans want to sit down designing lands?... wtf ..we want to raid/instance/group/socialise/explore/play
what a load of crap. And this was supposed to be the MMO of all time? its the killer of mmos.
Ummm crafters want to do that stuff? And it will have instances, grouping, social things, and ummm explorers like to find new things so player made content thats approved by SoE will give explorers this.
What do you mean it will "never work?" Guess you never played second life then. Their server has 30,000 players all creating stuff in the open world. Everything you see was created by the players. If EQ-Next goes this route it will be even more sandbox than EVE.
Bet SoE even monetizes their game the same way second life does. In second life you buy a plot of land with real life money and you get exclusive rights to build whatever you want on that land unless you unlock it so anyone can build stuff on your plot. The more money you pay the more land you can buy.
Another game that does this is Entropia Universe. Some guy spend $2.5 million buying up Entropia Universe land deeds. EQ-Next has mind blowing potential if they can pull this off right.
This sounds horrible. People spending real money to buy up EQ land and put whatever they want there (or more likely turn around and sell it themselves so someone else can put random crap wherever). I hope it's nothing like that.
This sounds very ambitious. I am impressed and I hope that they will be able to pull this off. Just one caution, how many of the features will have to be unlocked in their store.
Im going to try to see if i can make castle that has optical illusions on the outside and inside with staircases etc. That would be a fun project to try to learn about illusions at the same time.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
IF this was an ingame building feature (much like Minecraft) that would be indeed very cool, but it's not. It's an outside feature where players will build things and submit them to devs which in turn will decide if to implement it into EQN.....once in game it wont be changable. lame!
they are besically asking hard core fans to build structures for their game. that way you can now pay to do their job for them, with the only sattisfaction of telling you in-game friends "hey i built that"....../slowclap
and by the way those graphics suck for a game that prides it'self as "hard core". that looks like a lame version of Team fortress meets Wildstar.
Not new at all. An independent game called Divergence Online which is in pre alpha already has this feature. Have used it several times and is very fun. To be able to build is one thing, the buiildings making a difference in a game is another.
IF this was an ingame building feature (much like Minecraft) that would be indeed very cool, but it's not. It's an outside feature where players will build things and submit them to devs which in turn will decide if to implement it into EQN.....once in game it wont be changable. lame!
they are besically asking hard core fans to build structures for their game. that way you can now pay to do their job for them, with the only sattisfaction of telling you in-game friends "hey i built that"....../slowclap
and by the way those graphics suck for a game that prides it'self as "hard core". that looks like a lame version of Team fortress meets Wildstar.
It is part of the game.
Landscape is just the tool we will have access to prior to the game launch. It was all in the demonstration and if you had actually been watching it instead of trying to think of what you were going to write to complain about it you would have understood.
Meh, I forsee alot of nickel and diming in the future... oh you want to put this there? That'll be $1...Typical SOE. It'll cost you $1000 to do anything worthwhile XD
IF this was an ingame building feature (much like Minecraft) that would be indeed very cool, but it's not. It's an outside feature where players will build things and submit them to devs which in turn will decide if to implement it into EQN.....once in game it wont be changable. lame!
they are besically asking hard core fans to build structures for their game. that way you can now pay to do their job for them, with the only sattisfaction of telling you in-game friends "hey i built that"....../slowclap
and by the way those graphics suck for a game that prides it'self as "hard core". that looks like a lame version of Team fortress meets Wildstar.
It is part of the game.
Landscape is just the tool we will have access to prior to the game launch. It was all in the demonstration and if you had actually been watching it instead of trying to think of what you were going to write to complain about it you would have understood.
You might want to re-read Bill's article on this. It sounds pretty clear that these are two completely separate things. When you sign up for Beta, the email you receive talks about Beta programs (plural), and refers to the two as completely separate things with Landmark launching this winter and EQN only being in very early development.
___________________________ Have flask; will travel.
Wow, what a bunch of negative winers people on the site have become, it's depressing.
Oh I've been burned before and now I'm jaded, boohoo!
SOE is trying to rectify a long running problem - that players (us) burn content too fast by giving us the tools, and people are crying and calling them greedy for doing it, ridiculous.
The predecessors to modern MMOs were text based MUDS, if there's anyone actually old enough to remember, and many of the most successful worlds integrated user generated content/areas all the time. The tools were crap and it was almost like coding, but some of the best areas often came from the community. If it could be done back then, if sure as hell can be done now with those insanely good looking tools.
Landmark just looks like a PTR to me - a canvas where people can roam around and paint their ideas. Of course there will be griefers (there are assholes everywhere who are unhappy and like to make other people unhappy so they don't feel alone) but obviously SOE will know that and work to create systems to fight it. I hope they succeed.
As others have pointed out before, games like Neverwinter, Skyrim, Minecraft, etc have proven that there can be a successful, thriving community of quality user generated content. Some of the most fun I've had in any RPG came from modules I downloaded for NWN.
I'm really looking forward to EQ Next now, where a month ago I wasn't considering it at all. The level-less approach also looks great.
What peaked my interest a little is being able to work on the same project with friends or clan members, and then potentially sell that or make a solid effort on it to get it ingame through the rating system Landmark will come with. Essentially, Landmark could be the ultimate sandbox approach to player and clan housing - as long as they can avoid instancing and instead limit projects based on their rating, as otherwise this would ruin any purpose it can serve.
Although I hope that Landmark doesn't go heavy on the grind for obtaining materials. I can understand some basic logic and to incentivize player collaboration on projects, such as gathering stone from a quarry and wood from a forest, ect. But I'm not a fan of the idea that any creative effort would be limited by hours of grind, since after all, Landmark is not the main game.
They just revealed the game and the rumor mill is in full production churning out speculation in record numbers. Good thing I don't rely on this site to give me my gaming facts. One thing I am sure of, this game will be an abominable disappointment compared to the wild imagination most of this sites forum goers have.
Comments
You want raids?..use the tool..you want ppvp.and sieges?..use the tool..you want nice outfits?..for that we charge..use the shop.
Sorry people but i dont work for free
You guys better get to work making eqn for the rest of us so we have something to play. Do a decent job please, thanks.
Someone was very smart at SOE, they said "they'll make the game for us, and they'll pay us to do it."
Same boat, but a tad wary, the Iksar graphics are what I am waiting for, its the one race I truly got into in EQ1 and to a slightly lesser degree in EQ2 I would say it would be a slightly difficult race to get right.
My other concern is the BS perfect build crap you get off the raider types, even with so much choice is there still going to be a cookie cutter build.
Lastly just how random are the skills offered in successful story event, if you want to be a Necro are you constantly bombard with skills you don't want or is there a choice.
Now don't get me wrong, I am intrigued by the mechanics of the game, and I am still interested by the game but I am going to have to sadly I am being a tad shallow on the graphics, its to Wow, its going to take a lot of getting used to if at all.
Well, now is the chance for all the ass hats in the world who said they could design a better game than the given developer of the day a chance to step up and try it for themselves (of course using the developers pre set tools and parameters).
One thing MMORPG.com reminds me, is that there is no pleasing the people in this community. Make something flexible, convertible by users, people bitch. Make a pre-made game that is complete, people bitch. Make a game that is anything other than the second coming, people bitch.
I am really wondering if people really are just done with MMORPGs as a collective whole. I am not sure there is the financial motivation for a company to try really hard to break the mold in this genre, as the risk is monumental, and the reward almost never collected.
Regarding the topic, I sort of like this idea, but think it could go VERY badly too. In principle, I think it had potential. And SOE sure as hell is finding a way to save a buck, I will give them that, but I doubt it is their sole motivation. Making the tools for this has to be damn near as labor intensive as designing the world themselves. These tools will have to be bug freeish, and fairly easy to use for the premise they are trying to sell.
User generated content for more than a few players (coop game) will never EVER work?
Have you ever ask yourself why (besides space problems) role playing games (the old ones..in paper) cant be player by a lot of people at the same time in the same session?.. bacause when you generate content there have to be rules and an agreement between the users of that content..so..if they are releasing this tool to make things that you share with your friends..they MUST have separete instances ergo..farewell one of the pillars of a sandbox.
Even more..if you can place this content wheterver you want..is going to be a cesspool..because ruler are not agreed between the users..more or less like in neverwinter..what to play UGC?..go to that instance and you can..but out of that instance it wont affect the world in any way...so..what im foreseen is tow kind of games..one the game properly called..that will be as average as the last ones..and the cretation tool..that will be the player and his friends..the hability to play that content in their own instance (server..area.call it whatever you want)
In fact whey are delivering in almost every promise they made..but in a twisted way..they will give you pve..prolly in the game..they willgive you pvp..in your UGC that people can share..you can destry things..and interact with the terrain (again in the tollset)..so..in order to appeal everyone..they have compartimented the game
in any case..this game was off my radar since almost the beguinning..
PS: if you think ugc have place in a sandbox..ask why EVE dont have it (and i dont mean bases and moons..i mean that you CANT destroy moos or planets..nor change the shape of the galaxy) its because those deeps changes need an agreement between all players..and the devs..something you will never get
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
What about all that sand at the beginning?
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame
I really would like to see a huge world ala Eve Online with no separate srevers, and using Eve Online-esque character generation / tech.
Why must we have such unrealistic graphics in all our games when Eve Online is working towards full body graphics someday like they have in the character creation?
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame
What do you mean it will "never work?" Guess you never played second life then. Their server has 30,000 players all creating stuff in the open world. Everything you see was created by the players. If EQ-Next goes this route it will be even more sandbox than EVE.
Bet SoE even monetizes their game the same way second life does. In second life you buy a plot of land with real life money and you get exclusive rights to build whatever you want on that land unless you unlock it so anyone can build stuff on your plot. The more money you pay the more land you can buy.
Another game that does this is Entropia Universe. Some guy spend $2.5 million buying up Entropia Universe land deeds. EQ-Next has mind blowing potential if they can pull this off right.
Ummm crafters want to do that stuff? And it will have instances, grouping, social things, and ummm explorers like to find new things so player made content thats approved by SoE will give explorers this.
Are all mmo gamers drones like this guy?
This sounds horrible. People spending real money to buy up EQ land and put whatever they want there (or more likely turn around and sell it themselves so someone else can put random crap wherever). I hope it's nothing like that.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
IF this was an ingame building feature (much like Minecraft) that would be indeed very cool, but it's not. It's an outside feature where players will build things and submit them to devs which in turn will decide if to implement it into EQN.....once in game it wont be changable. lame!
they are besically asking hard core fans to build structures for their game. that way you can now pay to do their job for them, with the only sattisfaction of telling you in-game friends "hey i built that"....../slowclap
and by the way those graphics suck for a game that prides it'self as "hard core". that looks like a lame version of Team fortress meets Wildstar.
Who said that EQN was "hardcore"?
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame
It is part of the game.
Landscape is just the tool we will have access to prior to the game launch. It was all in the demonstration and if you had actually been watching it instead of trying to think of what you were going to write to complain about it you would have understood.
You might want to re-read Bill's article on this. It sounds pretty clear that these are two completely separate things. When you sign up for Beta, the email you receive talks about Beta programs (plural), and refers to the two as completely separate things with Landmark launching this winter and EQN only being in very early development.
___________________________
Have flask; will travel.
Oh I've been burned before and now I'm jaded, boohoo!
SOE is trying to rectify a long running problem - that players (us) burn content too fast by giving us the tools, and people are crying and calling them greedy for doing it, ridiculous.
The predecessors to modern MMOs were text based MUDS, if there's anyone actually old enough to remember, and many of the most successful worlds integrated user generated content/areas all the time. The tools were crap and it was almost like coding, but some of the best areas often came from the community. If it could be done back then, if sure as hell can be done now with those insanely good looking tools.
Landmark just looks like a PTR to me - a canvas where people can roam around and paint their ideas. Of course there will be griefers (there are assholes everywhere who are unhappy and like to make other people unhappy so they don't feel alone) but obviously SOE will know that and work to create systems to fight it. I hope they succeed.
As others have pointed out before, games like Neverwinter, Skyrim, Minecraft, etc have proven that there can be a successful, thriving community of quality user generated content. Some of the most fun I've had in any RPG came from modules I downloaded for NWN.
I'm really looking forward to EQ Next now, where a month ago I wasn't considering it at all. The level-less approach also looks great.
What peaked my interest a little is being able to work on the same project with friends or clan members, and then potentially sell that or make a solid effort on it to get it ingame through the rating system Landmark will come with. Essentially, Landmark could be the ultimate sandbox approach to player and clan housing - as long as they can avoid instancing and instead limit projects based on their rating, as otherwise this would ruin any purpose it can serve.
Although I hope that Landmark doesn't go heavy on the grind for obtaining materials. I can understand some basic logic and to incentivize player collaboration on projects, such as gathering stone from a quarry and wood from a forest, ect. But I'm not a fan of the idea that any creative effort would be limited by hours of grind, since after all, Landmark is not the main game.