This tells me that Blizzard doesnt have faith in their own product. Sub based games are alive and well. Just because you are a cheapscate doesnt mean that other gamers wont pay premium dollars for a good game.
And considering how long this game has been in development there is probably a lot of costs that needs to be covered.
This one is gonna crash and burn.
It tells me that the accounts have more data to work with and have determined that F2P is more profitable than P2P. Blizz found that out with their cash shop selling pets and mounts. You do a little work animating a new mount, put it up on the shop, and it prints money!
As more companies try more things in cash shops, more data becomes available on what sells, in what volumes and how much can be made from it. EVE and GW2 sell currency via indirect methods, so they basically get the money dummies were spending on gold sellers (probably more because it now "legal" in the game and you won't get banned for it).
But you need to look at the whole picture. Free to play is -not- the best model. Freemium -is- the best model. That is subscription based, but also optionaly free with limitations on gameplay pluss a cash shop. That way you cover all bases. Subscribers get their money worth and the cheapscates gets to pick a little here and there for less money but also get less access to the game.
The entire F2P vs P2P is riddiculous. So when a suit like this guy comes out stating the game will not be subscriber based it means he is either a moron or the game design doesnt work with a subsciber system. OR they are looking to create a pure milk machine that can fleece players for much more money than the "industry standard" of 15 bucks a month. Either way this info is one in the negative column on this game for me.
In a couple of years once 99.999% of online games are F2P at least the P2P vs F2P threads will be dead.
That will be refreshing.
SoE will never have another sub game, nor will any major publisher.
rip P2P
Rubbish. Pure utter rubbish. The future is Freemium with subscribers with full access and "free" players with limits on gameplay, and cash shops for vanity/game enhancing stuff. This is bussiness. Only morons say no to more money.
F2P Cash Shops are for fast cash grabs. I think it's a trend that is self limiting and will soon prove to be less profitable that it's recently been. A shitty game isn't worth paying for no matter how you ask for the money.
By the time Titan is anywhere near ready to launch, F2P will be sooooo last decade.
Thank goodness Titan will be "F2P". Blizzard will finally have a taste of horrendous failure like all these others whom are doing quick cash-grabs with these cash shops.
Originally posted by Buttdart The reason most F2P MMO's are declared 'fail' by the playerbase is because the hardcore - who always lead the way and set the standard in the games, whether they're making youtube vids, running blogs with concrete number-crunching, or running uberguilds - do the math, realize that the company puts out a game where you end up paying more than you would've if it were just $15/month IF you want to play on the high level, and that puts people off when they realize that in order to be a badass and stand out (which lets not kid ourselves, it's what people want to do in these games), they have to open their wallets.The old-school MMO player wants an MMO where your chance to stand out is a combination of enduring effort in-game AND a roll of the dice, not just "oh, that guy opened his wallet, that's why he has attention". It's fine if you are just a casual/social player though and want that kind of gameplay.The hardcore player of the organized guilds who triumph through their organization in games are done. The money is in catering to casuals, public pickup groups for 8-man dungeons, braindead mechanics that everyone can do (I mean you might as well make it braindead because even if it's complex, it just means the group has to watch the youtube video longer nowadays, right?), on and on.TL;DR, stop hoping for old-school MMO's where you feel you achieve something and/or lucked out on a drop. Those days are gone. If you want to be badass in the future MMO, you should get a higher paying job.
Lulz at the idea of being a "badass" in any MMORPG.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
In a couple of years once 99.999% of online games are F2P at least the P2P vs F2P threads will be dead.
That will be refreshing.
SoE will never have another sub game, nor will any major publisher.
rip P2P
I'm pretty sure TESO will be P2P, less scrubs that way also the amount of idiot kids that play f2p because they are too tight to even pay £3 to go f2p > premium > vip like on lotro or swtor is insane, take swtor you get tons of benefits and 6!!! char slots for paying £3 and going prefered yet they still moan over that the self righteous tight arses.
Also FFXIV will be P2P and thats a big publisher, trust me i prefer it this way, less scrubs, less cash shop milking us for bank tabs and ponies and better community.
if a dev/publisher only cares about money the game will be free to play, if they care about the game more than money it will be p2p simple as.
In a couple of years once 99.999% of online games are F2P at least the P2P vs F2P threads will be dead.
That will be refreshing.
SoE will never have another sub game, nor will any major publisher.
rip P2P
Rubbish. Pure utter rubbish. The future is Freemium with subscribers with full access and "free" players with limits on gameplay, and cash shops for vanity/game enhancing stuff. This is bussiness. Only morons say no to more money.
Amen, brother.
F2P + Premium subs + Cash Shop = Maximum revenue
Add to that the initial "founders packs" at launch, followed by "booster packs" with every expansion/update.
And don't forget that you can have the Cash Shop 100% operational at the start of Beta. So you start making mega-bucks long before the development is even complete !
What a bunch of hogwash. The reason F2P games are deemed fail by the playerbase is because instead of the games focusing on quality content (quests, rewards, dungeons, raids) releases, they focus on cash shop releases instead. I have played so many F2P games where they release a big update only to see that 90% of the released content is for the cash shop, and the game content itself is left un-touched. F2P games are nothing but an outlet for people who want instant gratification instead of actually having to work for something. It is sad how deteriorated the playerbase of MMORPG's has become. Instead of working for something, at times for weeks, you would rather spend 50 dollars and buy it. Hey, it is your choice, but how much appreciation do you have for it and how long does it last? Most people I know, and based on experience enjoy something a lot more when they have to pour all their blood, sweat, and tears into it. In my experience, most F2P games are full of spoiled little brats who have either stolen or had their parents poor 100's of dollars into a F2P mmorpg so they can buy/have the best gear/items in the game.
Now, if Blizzard is in fact making "Titan" or w/e, and if they want to do a cash shop model where they only offer aesthetic features and no items that give players an advantage I am all for that, however, that is rarely the case (Gw2 is one example, or was, I have not played in lately).
Btw, this is coming from a guy who makes more than enough money to spend on F2P games or shall I say P2W (Pay 2 win) games.
Personally I find that hard to believe since their success has been with a subscription base. I can understand adding a f2p option, but without an option to sub, it will kill their game unless it is very special.
In a couple of years once 99.999% of online games are F2P at least the P2P vs F2P threads will be dead.
That will be refreshing.
SoE will never have another sub game, nor will any major publisher.
rip P2P
Rubbish. Pure utter rubbish. The future is Freemium with subscribers with full access and "free" players with limits on gameplay, and cash shops for vanity/game enhancing stuff. This is bussiness. Only morons say no to more money.
Amen, brother.
F2P + Premium subs + Cash Shop = Maximum revenue
Add to that the initial "founders packs" at launch, followed by "booster packs" with every expansion/update.
And don't forget that you can have the Cash Shop 100% operational at the start of Beta. So you start making mega-bucks long before the development is even complete !
Money will be pouring in through the windows....
I remember the days when i could sub to a P2P premium super high quality game for £120 a year, now if ind im spending that a month to have the same content... these poor people who think the sun shines out of f2p's arse and never spend a dime are the ones who will never care about a game, yet we who do pay for their cheapness
Cash shop is a given with the boys from the Blizz now. It really is a case of how buy-to-win the game is rather than will there be an in game cash shop along with the game box purchase.
Cash shop is a given with the boys from the Blizz now. It really is a case of how buy-to-win the game is rather than will there be an in game cash shop along with the game box purchase.
My bet is on new revolutionary F2P mode ,fuel to play.
Player buys gametime like fuel,10000 gallon fuel tank = 1000$
every second in the game consumes 0.1 gallons of fuel.
Slogan (Mel Gibson voice) : Fuel me once ,Fuel me twice and you can fuel me rest of my life.
point is it can be anything.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
Probably something like Neverwinter (MMO) with its Astral Diamonds. AD is used so much that you're basically forced to buy it (AD) rather than slowly earn it through in-game methods.
Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.
They likely looked at EQN and decided that it would slaughter what ever grind fest they had in mind. Thats likely why they scrapped Titan and started over. Keep in mind that I have two 90's an 87 and six 85's in WoW. I started in late beta. Wow for all its faults remains a good game up to level cap. But its time, and that of the typical grinder is just about up, as far as I'm concerned.
I'll always remember the fun times I had in the game (I have almost three thousand screen shots), but its not what I'm looking for in a game any more. Which is why I quit before I had a third 90.
EverQuest Next, looks like a great of fun, and if they can actually get all of those concepts to work together, so that it plays well, will be the game I play extensively next.
Have to agree with the majority here - given the choice I'd prefer subscription without a cash shop at all over a f2p with one - as has become the norm with f2p - developers become solely focused on generating revenue from the cash shop and the game itself falls by the wayside - an un-patched buggy superficial mess. Having said that I would prefer we be given the same option as china currently does with pay by the hour payment models in addition to the monthly/quarterly/yearly subs.
DEFINITION OF REALITY: Graphics ok, Sound ok, Gold drops need more work...
This tells me that Blizzard doesnt have faith in their own product. Sub based games are alive and well. Just because you are a cheapscate doesnt mean that other gamers wont pay premium dollars for a good game.
And considering how long this game has been in development there is probably a lot of costs that needs to be covered.
This one is gonna crash and burn.
It tells me that the accounts have more data to work with and have determined that F2P is more profitable than P2P. Blizz found that out with their cash shop selling pets and mounts. You do a little work animating a new mount, put it up on the shop, and it prints money!
As more companies try more things in cash shops, more data becomes available on what sells, in what volumes and how much can be made from it. EVE and GW2 sell currency via indirect methods, so they basically get the money dummies were spending on gold sellers (probably more because it now "legal" in the game and you won't get banned for it).
But you need to look at the whole picture. Free to play is -not- the best model. Freemium -is- the best model. That is subscription based, but also optionaly free with limitations on gameplay pluss a cash shop. That way you cover all bases. Subscribers get their money worth and the cheapscates gets to pick a little here and there for less money but also get less access to the game.
For the uninformed, thats the SOE model that they use for the Everquest games(and I presume their other games). And the Rift Cashshop is pretty much a direct clone of the one from SOE. SOE has really been a trailblazer in this area and it has really shored up both EQ1 and EQ2. Both in the revenue they generate, and the continued development of new content.
I do agree that F2P done poorly can really hurt a game, but done right it can be quite an asset and has saved quite a few games from certain death.
Originally posted by jpaprocki If it's not sub-based then I wont be playing. Looks like my mmo days are numbered now. Time to dust off my single player games.
Not to sound condescending but do you even listen to what you type? Your going to quit a genre because it no longer offers a paid subscription service for a genre which is chalk full of non-subscription services?
Do YOU listen to yourself?
This is just an attempt to gloss over the changes that come with a game when it becomes "Free to Play" with its entire business model based on selling stuff in the game. It isn't the pay plan, it's what comes along with it. The games themselves are changing, and that's what many of us are objecting to.
Don't get me wrong; if the publishers make more money and they have players that like the games, then that's fine - just don't try to cajole me into believing "Oh it's just how you pay for it". That just isn't true.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
Here's my biggest issue with F2P vs Subscription. In a subscription based game, everyone is on even playing field. Everyone is entitled to the same things. You pay your subscription, you have the exact same chances of becoming as elite as the next person. With F2P it unevens the playing field, because in order to be elite, you have to pay for it. The best items, the best gear, the best crafting etc is all obtained by purchasing it. That shifts the level playing field from everyone to "he who has the most money wins" People will argue that if you put the time in, you can get the same items free.. Sure, but in 90% of cases I've seen, it causes those that have the money to put out, pay for the elite items, then flood the market with them and drive prices through the roof. It's almost always F2P, Pay2Win
Comments
But you need to look at the whole picture. Free to play is -not- the best model. Freemium -is- the best model. That is subscription based, but also optionaly free with limitations on gameplay pluss a cash shop. That way you cover all bases. Subscribers get their money worth and the cheapscates gets to pick a little here and there for less money but also get less access to the game.
The entire F2P vs P2P is riddiculous. So when a suit like this guy comes out stating the game will not be subscriber based it means he is either a moron or the game design doesnt work with a subsciber system. OR they are looking to create a pure milk machine that can fleece players for much more money than the "industry standard" of 15 bucks a month. Either way this info is one in the negative column on this game for me.
Rubbish. Pure utter rubbish. The future is Freemium with subscribers with full access and "free" players with limits on gameplay, and cash shops for vanity/game enhancing stuff. This is bussiness. Only morons say no to more money.
Yes totally free. In fact, they will pay you, even might invite you home for a drink and to have a go with their wives.
REALITY CHECK
This
F2P Cash Shops are for fast cash grabs. I think it's a trend that is self limiting and will soon prove to be less profitable that it's recently been. A shitty game isn't worth paying for no matter how you ask for the money.
By the time Titan is anywhere near ready to launch, F2P will be sooooo last decade.
Lulz at the idea of being a "badass" in any MMORPG.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I'm pretty sure TESO will be P2P, less scrubs that way also the amount of idiot kids that play f2p because they are too tight to even pay £3 to go f2p > premium > vip like on lotro or swtor is insane, take swtor you get tons of benefits and 6!!! char slots for paying £3 and going prefered yet they still moan over that the self righteous tight arses.
Also FFXIV will be P2P and thats a big publisher, trust me i prefer it this way, less scrubs, less cash shop milking us for bank tabs and ponies and better community.
if a dev/publisher only cares about money the game will be free to play, if they care about the game more than money it will be p2p simple as.
Amen, brother.
F2P + Premium subs + Cash Shop = Maximum revenue
Add to that the initial "founders packs" at launch, followed by "booster packs" with every expansion/update.
And don't forget that you can have the Cash Shop 100% operational at the start of Beta. So you start making mega-bucks long before the development is even complete !
Money will be pouring in through the windows....
What a bunch of hogwash. The reason F2P games are deemed fail by the playerbase is because instead of the games focusing on quality content (quests, rewards, dungeons, raids) releases, they focus on cash shop releases instead. I have played so many F2P games where they release a big update only to see that 90% of the released content is for the cash shop, and the game content itself is left un-touched. F2P games are nothing but an outlet for people who want instant gratification instead of actually having to work for something. It is sad how deteriorated the playerbase of MMORPG's has become. Instead of working for something, at times for weeks, you would rather spend 50 dollars and buy it. Hey, it is your choice, but how much appreciation do you have for it and how long does it last? Most people I know, and based on experience enjoy something a lot more when they have to pour all their blood, sweat, and tears into it. In my experience, most F2P games are full of spoiled little brats who have either stolen or had their parents poor 100's of dollars into a F2P mmorpg so they can buy/have the best gear/items in the game.
Now, if Blizzard is in fact making "Titan" or w/e, and if they want to do a cash shop model where they only offer aesthetic features and no items that give players an advantage I am all for that, however, that is rarely the case (Gw2 is one example, or was, I have not played in lately).
Btw, this is coming from a guy who makes more than enough money to spend on F2P games or shall I say P2W (Pay 2 win) games.
I remember the days when i could sub to a P2P premium super high quality game for £120 a year, now if ind im spending that a month to have the same content... these poor people who think the sun shines out of f2p's arse and never spend a dime are the ones who will never care about a game, yet we who do pay for their cheapness
+1
--- Razimus
Cash shop is a given with the boys from the Blizz now. It really is a case of how buy-to-win the game is rather than will there be an in game cash shop along with the game box purchase.
My bet is on new revolutionary F2P mode ,fuel to play.
Player buys gametime like fuel,10000 gallon fuel tank = 1000$
every second in the game consumes 0.1 gallons of fuel.
Slogan (Mel Gibson voice) : Fuel me once ,Fuel me twice and you can fuel me rest of my life.
point is it can be anything.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
lolcashshop.
Probably something like Neverwinter (MMO) with its Astral Diamonds. AD is used so much that you're basically forced to buy it (AD) rather than slowly earn it through in-game methods.
Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.
They likely looked at EQN and decided that it would slaughter what ever grind fest they had in mind. Thats likely why they scrapped Titan and started over. Keep in mind that I have two 90's an 87 and six 85's in WoW. I started in late beta. Wow for all its faults remains a good game up to level cap. But its time, and that of the typical grinder is just about up, as far as I'm concerned.
I'll always remember the fun times I had in the game (I have almost three thousand screen shots), but its not what I'm looking for in a game any more. Which is why I quit before I had a third 90.
EverQuest Next, looks like a great of fun, and if they can actually get all of those concepts to work together, so that it plays well, will be the game I play extensively next.
DEFINITION OF REALITY: Graphics ok, Sound ok, Gold drops need more work...
For the uninformed, thats the SOE model that they use for the Everquest games(and I presume their other games). And the Rift Cashshop is pretty much a direct clone of the one from SOE. SOE has really been a trailblazer in this area and it has really shored up both EQ1 and EQ2. Both in the revenue they generate, and the continued development of new content.
I do agree that F2P done poorly can really hurt a game, but done right it can be quite an asset and has saved quite a few games from certain death.
Do YOU listen to yourself?
This is just an attempt to gloss over the changes that come with a game when it becomes "Free to Play" with its entire business model based on selling stuff in the game. It isn't the pay plan, it's what comes along with it. The games themselves are changing, and that's what many of us are objecting to.
Don't get me wrong; if the publishers make more money and they have players that like the games, then that's fine - just don't try to cajole me into believing "Oh it's just how you pay for it". That just isn't true.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
I was actually hoping they would eventually make it non-sub after a while. However; I doubt that will happen. FFXI is still a subed title.