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POLL: Should vets determine the future?
aspekx
Member UncommonPosts: 2,167
while i understand personal investment in a game, why is it that vets seem to take this privileged stance that the game should match their expectations, even if those harm the company that the IP belongs to or drive most other players away?
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Comments
They ran a campaign of MyEQStory bullshit for a particular reason. Because this is the Everquest Franchise. A game people have played or loved for 15 years.
If they called it Craftminequest, I wouldn't have even followed it. So yes, EQ Vets get more say than someone who slithers over from Runescape or WoW.
but all you've said is, Yes. you haven't really given a reason except that its borrowed part of a name. and dont forget that name is not Everquest III, its Everquest Next.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
probly obvious from my post, but i agree. im just really curious as well. like, how does the rest of the community see this? and just as importantly, but what cannot be polled, is why they feel a particular way.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Why do you think "vets", whatever that may be exactly, have any other interests than anyone else? Everyone wants the same thing, a fun game to play.
Ultimately only the gaming company can and should decide what route a game is taking, because they are the ones who can backup preferences with statistical data, and sales results.
I do think old mmo'ers (aka in years played, not necessarily just older in age) can judge better for themselves what works, due to having seen most things in previous experiences. What might look cool on the surface, might not always be cool for longetivity.
But the whole notion of influencing the development of a game just because you have been playing its previous game is ridiculous. Say if you like to play a game because of its stroyline for like 1000hours++ , do you have the right to tell the developers of the game to make a sequel that focuses on stroyline? What happen if some other guys like to play the game for its PVP or gameplay?
Yes i agree most veterans would understand the core concept of the game more than newbies, but so far as the footages i saw most of them are nothing but improvement of the prev game.
basically, im getting that impression from almost every vet of EQ who is now on the forums raising a storm over EQN. and i do agree with you, i am sure that they also want a fun game, but it just seems from their posts that they have some other things going on there. particularly a feeling of ownership.
i do agree that vets can certainly add to the discussion. but its a discussion, if its there at all because you are also correct on the company having market research and statistical data in relation to what they are doing. (at least we hope >.>)
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
did you mean the involvement of vets and other players? if so then i would say yes and no. they are obviously going to be looking at the feedback from their announcements and from Landmark. and i do think it will affect things, but i certainly do not think that SOE will create any fundamental changes in their current plans and assets for EQN.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
As a vet I think I should have as much say in the direction of the game as any other person.
I think I'm a bit more reasonable than most vets. I don't want EQ1 again (or EQ2) and I want to see new stuff, while remaining true to the Everquest lore we all know and having plenty of things in the game for old EQ fans. I'm sure this is going to be the case (I mean look at all the nostalgia they put into EQ2) so I'm not worried.
It really has to be a healthy balance of both new player wishes and vets. Otherwise you alienate your current customers and fail to bring in new ones. Basically a significant change is always going to feel "uncomfortable" to the people that are use to the old ways no matter how you do it. Finding that balance is not easy to do, and we see companies fail and it and some that do great at it.
Beta will tell all, until then it looks good or bad on paper. It could feel so different when you actually stop resisting the concept of change and give it a try. Or the fears could be right on the mark, you never really know. I can't tell you how many, in this case games, have had this same issue on reveal. Then you go to try it and the stuff you love, isn't quite what you thought it was, or the stuff you thought you would hate ends up being nice. I think EQ's history gives it a bit more attention, but really all the reactions I have seen before on every MMO that is making a next "edition" or 2nd, 3rd, entry into the landscape.
I saw it when EQ2 came out, boy was that a huge outcry from a lot of original EQ1 players. Vanguard, although not officially part of the EQ line, same thing.
"Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better." parrotpholk
I voted No simply because I don't think any one group should really determine a games future. The only thing playing a game really gives you is insight into that one game. When a company wants to create something different... then you have to open up the focus to different points of view and various backgrounds of experience.
At least that is my opinion.
I also believe that there should be no "secret forums" where Darkside kissers get to give their opinion.. as if it represents the market as a whole. Which is also why I hate community "rep" programs.. because they just don't ever represent the player base at large.
I like the Roundtable they are using because it allows for open voting and discussion. <- Great idea in my opinion.. especially since its out in the open for all to see.
no but they should cater to the vets and at least make a few things familiar to them.
they are not catering to their EQ fanbase at all with this game, which is pretty surprising.
they said countless times that it would be familiar to EQ fans as well as different, so far its clearly just different.
i have not seen anything familiar other than systems taken from other games and not EQ.
i am not a overly cynical person, but this this is very frustrating.
Let me think. If I were a business owner would I.......
A) Try to keep my loyal customers happy and and returning spending their money on my service for years to come?
i can see that. i think both you and AIMaster have a balanced (even if you personally are frustrated) approach to these questions. which in the end i think will be of more use to you than simply taking up a side in some kind of trumped up struggle for the heart of a mmo'dom.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
So instead you'd be happy with the 1000th copy of "This time we are really gonna revolutionize the Genre.........no really, this time for sure.......we promise.........Online" ?
So what happens when the vets want different things? What if some want EQN and some want EQ3? Cater to the minority (EQ3) or the majority (EQN).
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
I strongly believe that the fan base needs to be heard. Developers who want to try new things that are not in line with the core values of a franchise are better doing that with another name or as a spin-off.
That being said, gamers are not game designers. Acquiring mastery of a game doesn't mean having the ability to analyze or understand why the game works, why those mechanics produce the result they love. In fact, people are usually very bad identifying the origins of their own opinions and emotions. Wrong rationalization is almost always part of fan speech.
My point is that in order to get somewhere new, you still have to remember where you came from. It's fine to do things that have never been done. But you can't forget about what's been proven to work. Just because something has been done, doesn't automatically disqualify it. If done correctly, it can still be viable. Of course, I am assuming that it's done right and has been refined and improved upon and not just cut'n'pasted, Which, unfortunately does happen alot.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.