What if for instance the Halo franchise would do what SoE is doing now. And remove something wich is core of their game like spartans? How would that go? Well we have proof of that really. Halo ODST wich had no spartan in sight for miles. Sales where lower then their Halo1 sales.
That is whats happening here EQnext being a entirly diffrent game with no familiarity towards the EQ franchise. So Fans are nerdraging right now and tbh they have a point u just cant make a totaly diffrent game but slap the same name on it. Im not saying sales will be lower the market is bigger now then it was back then. But you get my point.
My answer is that vets are a demographic and should be listened to as much as any other demographic,value shoudl be put on their experience and loyalty but they shoudl nto get to dictate what everyone plays.
while i understand personal investment in a game, why is it that vets seem to take this privileged stance that the game should match their expectations, even if those harm the company that the IP belongs to or drive most other players away?
Because it is in SoE interest to make a game that appeal to EQ veterans (around 500k) and new ones that might like that kind of game but never experienced it before.
SoE decided to go towards the GW2 crowd (I am not sure they did it on purpose), kudos to them.
I am not saying they are wrong, but GW2 is pretty new game and might not be that esy to poach its players....................... EQ on the other hand is quite old and actually needed a reboot.
SoE decided to made EQNext to get the EQ players who might just had enough of the technical and technological limitation of the 15 y/o Everquest, and might quit the game soon (on top of the thousands that already did).
But I believe SoE missed the mark by a long shot in my view.
Originally posted by Mendel I voted no. I do agree that companies need to listen to its customers, but I'd define 'vets' in this case as existing customers. For a new product, the company needs to consider all of its customers' needs, both existing and new,
A restaurant adding a fish dish to his menu doesn't try cater to his meat eating customers, but tries to attract a new type of customer instead.
Yes but EQ is 15 y/o restaurant, don't you think is time to refurbish the restaurant and put some modern technology like Air Conditioning before all the customers quit?
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard I thank the MMORPG gods that the devs don't listen to most of the rose colored nostalgia glasses wearing vets. We'd be playing the 100th copy of EQ1 with the same tired mechanics in 2050.
I agree with this completely. Its 2013, almost 2014 not 1999. People changed, the economy changed, companies changed. Get with the times. If you want a EQ 1 2.0 so bad. Open a studio and make one yourself.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Didn't SOE state that this game would not compete for players from EQ1 and 2, and instead would attract a new crowd? If so, then wouldn't it be in the interests of that statement to not let EQ vets determine its future?
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
It's also not 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 or any other year in which a failure of an mmo was released. Those "vets" are the only ones who seem to understand what makes mmos worth playing while developers continue to miss the mark. As long as they continue listening to feedback like "nighttime is too dark" or "travel is too slow" these games will be doomed.
Originally posted by Biskop No. This is a completely new game and they want to do something different with the MMO genre, so it would just be stupid of them to listen to people who think it's still 1999.
I really don't see anything new overall but i will keep my judgement until alpha footage release. the only thing that interests me is the landmark which is again done by storybricks; not SOE. But this one can sure mean this game will be following the current trend of solo-centric mmo(like gw2 did). think carefully : what if every single player decides to create quest npc to cater their own need? or create specific series of instanced quests just for themselves and stay busy with it instead of grouping with others or doing group content? everyone will be able to create their own story and this is what will really harm the community in the long run. i don't want to go back to 99, i really don't believe mmo of those days had the correct approach toward entire playerbase but this new trend of solo centric mmo needs to go. it is really not going to do any good to the genre. even though it seems fun to create ones own content but mmo should never be about "I, me and myself".
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Didn't SOE state that this game would not compete for players from EQ1 and 2, and instead would attract a new crowd? If so, then wouldn't it be in the interests of that statement to not let EQ vets determine its future?
Cheers!
Yes they did, that's what they said officially, but they ain't stupid though.
The game is 15 y/o (most of you weren't even born), in technological terms it is ancient!!
They know that the game won't last too long, everything dies, and games are no exception.
If EQ was an human it would have at least 120 years..............so it's time.
If SoE loses the EQ player base, they are done, and they know that.
There is so much competition in the industry today, and they cannot afford to lose the EQ playerbase, the current and the past ones (I am one of them even though I don't play the game anymore).
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard I thank the MMORPG gods that the devs don't listen to most of the rose colored nostalgia glasses wearing vets. We'd be playing the 100th copy of EQ1 with the same tired mechanics in 2050.
What he said.
The less that the devs listen to the rose-colored glasses crowd the better, especially if they want to push EQ in new directions or try different things.
i voted for the middle one, a say but not a decisive one.
i think vets who migrate to the new game might be very important for the community (hi there nadia!). but at the same time a game absolutely needs new blood. also keep in mind that most people who want an older style game are probably going to happily play their older style game so why sway too much towards them.
ideally when the game launches the vets will be seeing our beloved norrath in a new light and we will be able to share our experiences with a new crowd who is there to begin their love affair with norrath for the first time.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Has it ever dawned on people that maybe "listening to the vets" is what has led to the stagnation in the MMO genre in the first place?
When you have the same peple playing al these games and offering the same tired, stale advice about "what players want", you end up with developers making the same mistakes over and over and over and over and remaking new versions of other games.
SOE has all the player data in both EQ and EQ2 from 1999 onward. They know what people are actually doing in their games, and their actual play patterns despite what the rose-colored glasses crowd says vets want. Sure, Sony will want to give people some familiar things and some mechnanics they already like, but listening slavishly to the nostalgia crowd would be fatal if they're serious about trying to push their game forward.
I'm getting the vibe that vets could spoil a vision rather than make it better by forcing their way into the mix. Some of the veteran demeanor here has been a tad malicious, so hmmm, nah, I don't want that attitude curdling the milk in EQNext. I'm surprised, because that's not the EQ community I know. I'm not seeing all this hate on the EQ2 boards. I wonder how many people have multiple accounts to rant through on these game sites.
Anyway, maybe I'm being pessimistic, and the more calm vets just aren't standing out enough in the mix. Still, for now the acid levels are ultimately making me think that they should be kept out, at least until they become less crusty and flamey.
These days, game developers have many examples of formulas that are failing in the marketplace, and that don't grow. At best they just bump along.
Blind devotion to yesteryear isn't going to change how people game. Changing the whole thing might. From roof to rafters, a total makeover and restructuring.
The only constant in life is that things change. But, fortunately for vets, EQ1 and EQ2 will still be there when the dust setlles.
Hopefully Sony weathers the storms and tantrums, and has the guts to stand firm and build this new kind of "perpetual world". After all, I heard that they didn't really make this game for EQ1 and 2 players, it's for everyone else! Inclusive rather than exclusive.
while i understand personal investment in a game, why is it that vets seem to take this privileged stance that the game should match their expectations, even if those harm the company that the IP belongs to or drive most other players away?
This is true of most things, not just games, but the original adopters are typically the people who helped make the original a success by supporting it.
Would there have been EQ2, EQN or even any Sony MMO's had EQ never been a thing? Game launches and fails right away = no sequels. The original EQ players helped EQ be a part of the industry so it is kind of unfair to tell them to take a hike now. But the final say is always the business' decision.
In my opinion i think anyone has right to input info on there opinion on a game does not mean it will happen but you can give input. As for my self on the this matter of the changes SOE has chosen to go with I say finally a company not following the many choice design features we had over the years they decided to do it different.
I say that company's need to change the way games are or as many of stated its just the same game over and over. Really if so many like the old way of tab target combat there is 900+ games out there like that. You want new then let them change that setup yeah it might be like GW2+Minecraft+Disney=EQN but you know what i say bring it on and yes I am a vet I have been playing sense Realm online and UO days of mmo's.
I myself am tired of the normal tank and spank we have have for 15 years in mmo's I want different. Yeah I like GW2 for that reason but I also like TSW, Neverwinter, PSO2, Tera, And DCUO because they where not the tried and true old school setup. Many games have come out over the years like WoW, EQ2, EQOA:Frontiers, Vanguard, AoC, FFXI and many others they where all great games but if I want to play that type of game I will go play that game not ask for it to be remade the same with a new look they could change the old game to a new engine for that. And even if they did do a engine overhaul to the game to give it better graphic's it would still be the same game with a new look and I dont want that I want different.
To all those saying the game's not gonna make it cool I dont think in my opinion Pathfinder, Camelot, Archage, or Black Desert are going to ethier not because the games are bad but because in the market today theres to many games that have way to many of the same setup and most of them are still running. Like LOTRO, DaOC, AC, Istaria, PSU, and many others and guess what some with graphic's that would be on nintendo and still going not shut down but still being played. But you all want the same features all these old school games have but with a new skin because it works and it does things right ok for you it does not everyone want that some want new and I say "Please may we get some more sir".
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
while i understand personal investment in a game, why is it that vets seem to take this privileged stance that the game should match their expectations, even if those harm the company that the IP belongs to or drive most other players away?
This is true of most things, not just games, but the original adopters are typically the people who helped make the original a success by supporting it.
Would there have been EQ2, EQN or even any Sony MMO's had EQ never been a thing? Game launches and fails right away = no sequels. The original EQ players helped EQ be a part of the industry so it is kind of unfair to tell them to take a hike now. But the final say is always the business' decision.
while i understand personal investment in a game, why is it that vets seem to take this privileged stance that the game should match their expectations, even if those harm the company that the IP belongs to or drive most other players away?
This is true of most things, not just games, but the original adopters are typically the people who helped make the original a success by supporting it.
Would there have been EQ2, EQN or even any Sony MMO's had EQ never been a thing? Game launches and fails right away = no sequels. The original EQ players helped EQ be a part of the industry so it is kind of unfair to tell them to take a hike now. But the final say is always the business' decision.
You are spot on mate.
I couldn't have put it any better.
I understand, it's about feeling the love from Sony. It's natural to want to be in the loop after all we've been faithful. I do get that. I just draw the line when things devolve into a circus of rage and flamewars. If I was a dev, I'd shut the door on that much bile.
Beta will surely open things up more in the feedback department. In the actual EQ communities there's already an ability to interact with Sony devs to some extent. As long as we're realistic and not lost in the past, feedback might have some degree of traction. All the ragey stuff on the other hand, is like trying to catch flies with vinegar. Too much of a turn off.
Anyway, I love EQ2, but I also love the new concept for EQNext. So for me it's a win win. Both games get lots of development love. Long live games that do excellent crafting, RIP SWG.
They ran a campaign of MyEQStory bullshit for a particular reason. Because this is the Everquest Franchise. A game people have played or loved for 15 years.
If they called it Craftminequest, I wouldn't have even followed it. So yes, EQ Vets get more say than someone who slithers over from Runescape or WoW.
Slithers?
That's why you shouldn't get a say. Mean, self-important snobs. I wouldn't craft a game for people such as you either.
Originally posted by Vidir The company will try to make a game that lotas of people likes not only a handfull of vets.
What no one mentions is that the devs themselves are vets.
They've been playing their own games since the beginning and they've been watching the players too. They know what their players like and don't like based on far more than just some angry rants on the internet about what "real EQ vets" want and don't want.
I'm an EQ1 vet. I played from launch through the Lost Dungeons of Norrath expansion. I wouldn't want a group of nostalgia driven, rose- colored glasses wearing people with an axe to grind to be that far involved in EQN's development. I want Sony to take what they've done before and do something new with it. Keep some things that people like and which have generally worked all these years, toss the rest, and come up with something I haven't seen before. I don't want the same old game anymore. If I wanted that, there are dozens of games on the market I could play.
Comments
this might be silly but here it goes.
What if for instance the Halo franchise would do what SoE is doing now. And remove something wich is core of their game like spartans? How would that go? Well we have proof of that really. Halo ODST wich had no spartan in sight for miles. Sales where lower then their Halo1 sales.
That is whats happening here EQnext being a entirly diffrent game with no familiarity towards the EQ franchise. So Fans are nerdraging right now and tbh they have a point u just cant make a totaly diffrent game but slap the same name on it. Im not saying sales will be lower the market is bigger now then it was back then. But you get my point.
Because it is in SoE interest to make a game that appeal to EQ veterans (around 500k) and new ones that might like that kind of game but never experienced it before.
SoE decided to go towards the GW2 crowd (I am not sure they did it on purpose), kudos to them.
I am not saying they are wrong, but GW2 is pretty new game and might not be that esy to poach its players....................... EQ on the other hand is quite old and actually needed a reboot.
SoE decided to made EQNext to get the EQ players who might just had enough of the technical and technological limitation of the 15 y/o Everquest, and might quit the game soon (on top of the thousands that already did).
But I believe SoE missed the mark by a long shot in my view.
Yes but EQ is 15 y/o restaurant, don't you think is time to refurbish the restaurant and put some modern technology like Air Conditioning before all the customers quit?
That's all I am saying.
I agree with this completely. Its 2013, almost 2014 not 1999. People changed, the economy changed, companies changed. Get with the times. If you want a EQ 1 2.0 so bad. Open a studio and make one yourself.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Not if there is not Air Conditioning.
Some people might trade a bit of food quality for more confort.
EQ is a restaurant where you eat well but has no Aircon, wobbly tables, dirty walls and no running water in the toilet.
There is so much customer are willing to accept for good food before they go somewhere else.
EQ definetly need a reboot, and SoE missed the chance, because EQ won't be around for too long.
Didn't SOE state that this game would not compete for players from EQ1 and 2, and instead would attract a new crowd? If so, then wouldn't it be in the interests of that statement to not let EQ vets determine its future?
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
I really don't see anything new overall but i will keep my judgement until alpha footage release. the only thing that interests me is the landmark which is again done by storybricks; not SOE. But this one can sure mean this game will be following the current trend of solo-centric mmo(like gw2 did). think carefully : what if every single player decides to create quest npc to cater their own need? or create specific series of instanced quests just for themselves and stay busy with it instead of grouping with others or doing group content? everyone will be able to create their own story and this is what will really harm the community in the long run. i don't want to go back to 99, i really don't believe mmo of those days had the correct approach toward entire playerbase but this new trend of solo centric mmo needs to go. it is really not going to do any good to the genre. even though it seems fun to create ones own content but mmo should never be about "I, me and myself".
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Yes they did, that's what they said officially, but they ain't stupid though.
The game is 15 y/o (most of you weren't even born), in technological terms it is ancient!!
They know that the game won't last too long, everything dies, and games are no exception.
If EQ was an human it would have at least 120 years..............so it's time.
If SoE loses the EQ player base, they are done, and they know that.
There is so much competition in the industry today, and they cannot afford to lose the EQ playerbase, the current and the past ones (I am one of them even though I don't play the game anymore).
What he said.
The less that the devs listen to the rose-colored glasses crowd the better, especially if they want to push EQ in new directions or try different things.
i voted for the middle one, a say but not a decisive one.
i think vets who migrate to the new game might be very important for the community (hi there nadia!). but at the same time a game absolutely needs new blood. also keep in mind that most people who want an older style game are probably going to happily play their older style game so why sway too much towards them.
ideally when the game launches the vets will be seeing our beloved norrath in a new light and we will be able to share our experiences with a new crowd who is there to begin their love affair with norrath for the first time.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
Has it ever dawned on people that maybe "listening to the vets" is what has led to the stagnation in the MMO genre in the first place?
When you have the same peple playing al these games and offering the same tired, stale advice about "what players want", you end up with developers making the same mistakes over and over and over and over and remaking new versions of other games.
SOE has all the player data in both EQ and EQ2 from 1999 onward. They know what people are actually doing in their games, and their actual play patterns despite what the rose-colored glasses crowd says vets want. Sure, Sony will want to give people some familiar things and some mechnanics they already like, but listening slavishly to the nostalgia crowd would be fatal if they're serious about trying to push their game forward.
Yes, certainly. - 16.2%
Wow... the community here at mmorpg is really as bad as I thought.
I'm getting the vibe that vets could spoil a vision rather than make it better by forcing their way into the mix. Some of the veteran demeanor here has been a tad malicious, so hmmm, nah, I don't want that attitude curdling the milk in EQNext. I'm surprised, because that's not the EQ community I know. I'm not seeing all this hate on the EQ2 boards. I wonder how many people have multiple accounts to rant through on these game sites.
Anyway, maybe I'm being pessimistic, and the more calm vets just aren't standing out enough in the mix. Still, for now the acid levels are ultimately making me think that they should be kept out, at least until they become less crusty and flamey.
These days, game developers have many examples of formulas that are failing in the marketplace, and that don't grow. At best they just bump along.
Blind devotion to yesteryear isn't going to change how people game. Changing the whole thing might. From roof to rafters, a total makeover and restructuring.
The only constant in life is that things change. But, fortunately for vets, EQ1 and EQ2 will still be there when the dust setlles.
Hopefully Sony weathers the storms and tantrums, and has the guts to stand firm and build this new kind of "perpetual world". After all, I heard that they didn't really make this game for EQ1 and 2 players, it's for everyone else! Inclusive rather than exclusive.
This is true of most things, not just games, but the original adopters are typically the people who helped make the original a success by supporting it.
Would there have been EQ2, EQN or even any Sony MMO's had EQ never been a thing? Game launches and fails right away = no sequels. The original EQ players helped EQ be a part of the industry so it is kind of unfair to tell them to take a hike now. But the final say is always the business' decision.
In my opinion i think anyone has right to input info on there opinion on a game does not mean it will happen but you can give input. As for my self on the this matter of the changes SOE has chosen to go with I say finally a company not following the many choice design features we had over the years they decided to do it different.
I say that company's need to change the way games are or as many of stated its just the same game over and over. Really if so many like the old way of tab target combat there is 900+ games out there like that. You want new then let them change that setup yeah it might be like GW2+Minecraft+Disney=EQN but you know what i say bring it on and yes I am a vet I have been playing sense Realm online and UO days of mmo's.
I myself am tired of the normal tank and spank we have have for 15 years in mmo's I want different. Yeah I like GW2 for that reason but I also like TSW, Neverwinter, PSO2, Tera, And DCUO because they where not the tried and true old school setup. Many games have come out over the years like WoW, EQ2, EQOA:Frontiers, Vanguard, AoC, FFXI and many others they where all great games but if I want to play that type of game I will go play that game not ask for it to be remade the same with a new look they could change the old game to a new engine for that. And even if they did do a engine overhaul to the game to give it better graphic's it would still be the same game with a new look and I dont want that I want different.
To all those saying the game's not gonna make it cool I dont think in my opinion Pathfinder, Camelot, Archage, or Black Desert are going to ethier not because the games are bad but because in the market today theres to many games that have way to many of the same setup and most of them are still running. Like LOTRO, DaOC, AC, Istaria, PSU, and many others and guess what some with graphic's that would be on nintendo and still going not shut down but still being played. But you all want the same features all these old school games have but with a new skin because it works and it does things right ok for you it does not everyone want that some want new and I say "Please may we get some more sir".
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
You are spot on mate.
I couldn't have put it any better.
I understand, it's about feeling the love from Sony. It's natural to want to be in the loop after all we've been faithful. I do get that. I just draw the line when things devolve into a circus of rage and flamewars. If I was a dev, I'd shut the door on that much bile.
Beta will surely open things up more in the feedback department. In the actual EQ communities there's already an ability to interact with Sony devs to some extent. As long as we're realistic and not lost in the past, feedback might have some degree of traction. All the ragey stuff on the other hand, is like trying to catch flies with vinegar. Too much of a turn off.
Anyway, I love EQ2, but I also love the new concept for EQNext. So for me it's a win win. Both games get lots of development love. Long live games that do excellent crafting, RIP SWG.
Slithers?
That's why you shouldn't get a say. Mean, self-important snobs. I wouldn't craft a game for people such as you either.
What no one mentions is that the devs themselves are vets.
They've been playing their own games since the beginning and they've been watching the players too. They know what their players like and don't like based on far more than just some angry rants on the internet about what "real EQ vets" want and don't want.
I'm an EQ1 vet. I played from launch through the Lost Dungeons of Norrath expansion. I wouldn't want a group of nostalgia driven, rose- colored glasses wearing people with an axe to grind to be that far involved in EQN's development. I want Sony to take what they've done before and do something new with it. Keep some things that people like and which have generally worked all these years, toss the rest, and come up with something I haven't seen before. I don't want the same old game anymore. If I wanted that, there are dozens of games on the market I could play.