but imagine lots of players will stay to this game and level up quickly that they get access to all that special classes and then we will have thousands of librarians running around and burn the whole planet
my solution is bad but would keep realistic amount of special units
i would love a system that let a character stay to his choosen class for ever just rank up through different ranks of that class
and if i want to play another class i need another character
thats RPG for me
In PlanetSide2, the Max armor (think about terminator armor) is available to everyone. It has a Cooldown and a resource cost, still, so it's not a major thing on the battleground at all. Now imagine an increased cooldown and an important resource cost, plus a required level, and there wouldn't be that much chaplains on the battlefield. We could even see a limited number of chaplains on the battlefield at the same time :
If already three alive players have a chaplains on this region, you can't access to one and have to wait for them to die.
As for dreadnoughts, I see this in several different ways.
Dreadnoughts can be max-tiered players who opt to trade in there character for a Dreadnought internment. This would be a permanant process and the player can *never* go back to being a "normal" Marine. They can begin leveling and customizing their Dreddy, using power fists, power claws, missile launchers, assault canons, heavy flamers, lazcannons, etc. The players Marine equipment is then kept in the Guild Armory, to be given out as the leaders see fit.
The second way is, once per campaign, players who volunteer can have their characters turned into Dreadnoughts temporarily. Primarily speaking, the guild leaders can elect several players (depending on the size of the guild/battle squad or whatever its being called) to be Dreadnoughts for the remainder of the campaign. It would then be up to the player to muck with his own equipment. This would cost the guild a lot of requisition though, and if the Dreadnought is destroyed, it cannot be used in that battle/campaign again, and the player resumes playing as normal. This limits the amount of Dreadnoughts per campaign, starting at say maybe 1 or 2 if guilds have fewer then 50 members, 3 or 4 dreads if guilds have more. This also limits the possibility of having a huge Dreadnought population, if, say, 1000 max-tiered players opted to all intern their characters to be a Dread.
Needing is Wanting... Wanting is Coveting... Coveting is Sinning... I am SO going to Hell.
No. No, do not ever put the ability to decide what class players get to play into the hands of other players. That is a recipe for disaster which _will_ lead to what is percieved as "good" classes and equipment only ever being available to friends of those particular players/guilds, leaving a sizeable part of your playerbase out in the cold, and that is _not_ a good thing. People are simply not unbiased and trustworthy enough to be given such power over their fellow players. If you would have to be on the good side of a certain player/group of players in order to play a terminator, or a chaos marine berserker, or a Striking Scorpion exarch, or an ork weirdboy and so on and so forth then that's just a recipe for rampant favoritism and corruption in the player base.
I agree with Terminator armor, or other special classes/armor being like Maxs in Planetside 2 with a resource requirement and cooldown on death. Same with any vehicles as well, possibly with an added requirement of Guilds being able to spawn the larger vehicles (Land Raiders, Battle Wagons, etc.)
This system helps keep the numbers controlled on the battlefield without completely locking out players. If they make Terminators a 24/7 playable loadout/class then in a matter of months the game will have more Terminators and elite units running around than there should be on any given battlefield.
As for Dreadnoughts, since its so sticky lore wise and they are insanely powerful these should probably be restricted to battlefield NPCs that are drop podded in with a few criteria. A command element should be able to call them in using some resource, when they deploy they have a very long timer on the battlefield, despawn on death, or despawn given a victory condition. These should be terrifying warmachines that can give and take massive amounts of punishment, who turn the tide of battle. They cant portray them like that if its player run because it will cause too much anger, and will be impossible to balance without making them buttery soft and weak.
I didn't even consider that you could also do the same with weaker combat units like grots, servitors, etc to help maintain stuff since players characters are more soldier and less worker. This would also help with the ambiance, make it seem busier and chaotic...more war like instead of lifeless zones.
IMO though I think there should be some leadership gateway that must be passed in order to call in the heavy/elite/vehicle support. Perhaps limit it to an ability with global cooldown, Guild level requirement, and heavy resource requirement like Guild perks.
Almost like the Dawn of War 2 commander abilities (Pictured Below), except instead of the red color resource being from kills it can be from a Guild mechanic for any officer ranks in the Guild to activate, given the resources and the abilities not on global cooldown. Maybe add in there Thunderhawk strafing runs, or vehicles drops...whatever the Guild specializes for.
Maybe it would also be possible if there were a commander progression track, title, or unlock as well but then you hit the problem of there possibly being too many "Commanders" spamming Dreadnoughts after the game has been out long enough for a majority of people to get to that point. If so then it will only be a matter of time before dreadnought zergs will happen lol.
As for the player leader council thing they want to have they really cant rely on them for battlefield perks like this since these players cant honestly be on 24/7 to use them.
I don't like the idea of Dreadnoughts being freely requisitioned in at the cost of some monetary system. I think each guild should have a cap of active dreadnoughts but that a player can only make a dreadnought if
• They have a Space Marine of some particular 'heroic' level (i.e., you can't just start a Space Marine fresh and then change it to a Dreadnought)
• They agree to sacrifice that character. They gain access to a Dreadnought but that Dreadnought can no longer 'gain levels' but will maintain the traits that Character already gained and any benefits previously associated. A Dreadnought is automatically assigned 'proficiencies' or whatever or a free selection of Dreadnought-esque weapons and loadouts; i.e., smoke launchers, Twin-linked Lascannon etc, etc.
My main fear of cost induced Dreadnoughts is a situation where they get completely out of control. I.e., a PvE run of a hard instance where everyone is a Dreadnaught and the odd Techmarine to repair them.
I don't like the idea of Dreadnoughts being freely requisitioned in at the cost of some monetary system. I think each guild should have a cap of active dreadnoughts but that a player can only make a dreadnought if
• They have a Space Marine of some particular 'heroic' level (i.e., you can't just start a Space Marine fresh and then change it to a Dreadnought)
• They agree to sacrifice that character. They gain access to a Dreadnought but that Dreadnought can no longer 'gain levels' but will maintain the traits that Character already gained and any benefits previously associated. A Dreadnought is automatically assigned 'proficiencies' or whatever or a free selection of Dreadnought-esque weapons and loadouts; i.e., smoke launchers, Twin-linked Lascannon etc, etc.
My main fear of cost induced Dreadnoughts is a situation where they get completely out of control. I.e., a PvE run of a hard instance where everyone is a Dreadnaught and the odd Techmarine to repair them.
I wouldnt like to have my character sacrificed , I dont know many who would although I know why you would suggest that . If the whole game was built around perma-death and your character was going to die anyways from wounds then I would be all over that like fuzz on a peach lol.
The idea I suggested wasnt to call a dreadnaught in using a monetary system for players to use at will, it was more like a resource that is built up in battle, like in DoW2 when you get kills, that you can use at critical moments to droppod an NPC Dreadnaught in that will kill everything it can on the way to the target objective.
After every battle this "Requisition" resource for dreads, bombardments, etc. it is wiped. This is to keep people from stockpiling it, and to make it seem realllllly spectacular stuff, like something that can turn the tide of battle if used properly. I would love to see it droppod in and start spouting insane one line ramblings with its robotic voice while it starts breaking people in half as its stumbling toward the target objective during its rampage lol.
Point is, there would be no way to properly represent it in game if it is player piloted without calls for nerfs from players killed by it, without it breaking the lore of our characters piloting it by jumping in and out of it. This built in battle resource would just keep elite units from being spammable to make it a rare and feared site instead of a commonplace nuisance.
Also I would make the "resource" I mentioned invalid in PVE or have a separate set of skills that are more team oriented like inspiring rally buffs, small regens, etc. The big toys should be reserved for large objectives and PVP battles...again to make them seem like legit murder machines for war.
I'm half with you there. I don't think Captains should be a reward in and of itself, as a captain is a pretty big deal really, being in command of a company for example. But it's frequently a company that gets deployed to a planet. Therefore, a Captain imo should be a guild leader voted for by other guild leaders, but that seems like a nightmare to try and organise some sort of semblence of cooperation and seems to be prone to corruption too.
I think Chaplains, Apothecaries etc should all be character classes, but I think there should be a difference.
Say you select for yourself a Space Marine.
You start off playing as a Scout. You gain experience, you like certain weapons all is awesome. You ding at some point, you become a Space Marine. Certain weapons you like you can spend xp on to gain Certifications (nice word). This way you can be a Tactical but you can buy (at a premium in certification points) a Plasma Gun. If you're in a Squad say of 5 people and you have a higher level of proficiency, you get the slot of a specialist weapon.
You play, you continue to have fun, you gain experience, and you ding. You've got a surplus of 'certification' so you decide to specialise and take the job of a Chaplain. Your job is now a Chaplain and while you are a Chaplain, you are locked in some way to Chaplain responsibilities/abilities and possibly in some way wargear as well. You become like a support class and you can continue to gain xp and abilities etc as a Chaplain. But maybe one day you get bored and want to be a Psyker, so you spend some certification and become a Psyker, or maybe when you specialise that's it, you can't respecialise at all.
This is exactly what I'm hoping for. That's the best case scenario of how the devs might design it, to me. Specialization should be the key to using an advanced class, in my opinion. Respecialization should be very difficult, if not impossible. Ideally, I'd like to be able to use only one advanced class outside of the primary combat classes.
It should absolutely not be left in other players' hands nor exclusive to guilds. Guilds should be able to pool player resources to acquire perks. You shouldn't have to join a guild to unlock any class.
It should absolutely not be left in other players' hands nor exclusive to guilds. Guilds should be able to pool player resources to acquire perks. You shouldn't have to join a guild to unlock any class.
That's what I believe too. I think guild unlocking classes, or classes selected for people by guild officers, is prone to all manner of abuse, whether intentional or not. I'm very strongly against it.
I do believe there should be a perma-death sort of system in the game, someone mentioned a wound system and frankly I really like the idea. However, I also think perma-death shouldn't mean 'delete character', perhaps perma death could cost a hefty amount of experience or even allow agency for the Dreadnaughts that I mentioned before. I guess this depends on how important gear is to the game as well.
Here's what I think when I think of a wound system; basically it's something like the injury system from the dragon age games, except it's harder to get rid of (i.e., no drinking of 'injury kits' to get rid of them). Suffering an injury randomly negatively affects a stat of some kind, perhaps it also affects your aim. The more injuries you suffer, the more your aim, and/or movement is affected. Perhaps if you're injured a space marine can't barrel through soft cover anymore etc, etc.
Give the player a rough idea of how close they are to be 'perma deathed' but don't outright tell them; 2 more injuries and you're out.
Give stacking (but slight) bonuses for a player who courts death by suffering many injuries in a brief span of time, by some sort of bonus experience for example, you know, to make them want to court death by feeling like a total baller. Make all shots that do hit a crit for example.
Make it so wounds can only be gotten rid of by logging out in a safe area and they are logged out for some (stacking) amount of time, depending on how many injuries they've sustained. If you have an injury and you fight regardless, give an increased percentage amount of gaining another serious injury.
Comments
In PlanetSide2, the Max armor (think about terminator armor) is available to everyone. It has a Cooldown and a resource cost, still, so it's not a major thing on the battleground at all. Now imagine an increased cooldown and an important resource cost, plus a required level, and there wouldn't be that much chaplains on the battlefield. We could even see a limited number of chaplains on the battlefield at the same time :
If already three alive players have a chaplains on this region, you can't access to one and have to wait for them to die.
As for dreadnoughts, I see this in several different ways.
Dreadnoughts can be max-tiered players who opt to trade in there character for a Dreadnought internment. This would be a permanant process and the player can *never* go back to being a "normal" Marine. They can begin leveling and customizing their Dreddy, using power fists, power claws, missile launchers, assault canons, heavy flamers, lazcannons, etc. The players Marine equipment is then kept in the Guild Armory, to be given out as the leaders see fit.
The second way is, once per campaign, players who volunteer can have their characters turned into Dreadnoughts temporarily. Primarily speaking, the guild leaders can elect several players (depending on the size of the guild/battle squad or whatever its being called) to be Dreadnoughts for the remainder of the campaign. It would then be up to the player to muck with his own equipment. This would cost the guild a lot of requisition though, and if the Dreadnought is destroyed, it cannot be used in that battle/campaign again, and the player resumes playing as normal. This limits the amount of Dreadnoughts per campaign, starting at say maybe 1 or 2 if guilds have fewer then 50 members, 3 or 4 dreads if guilds have more. This also limits the possibility of having a huge Dreadnought population, if, say, 1000 max-tiered players opted to all intern their characters to be a Dread.
Needing is Wanting...
Wanting is Coveting...
Coveting is Sinning...
I am SO going to Hell.
I agree with Terminator armor, or other special classes/armor being like Maxs in Planetside 2 with a resource requirement and cooldown on death. Same with any vehicles as well, possibly with an added requirement of Guilds being able to spawn the larger vehicles (Land Raiders, Battle Wagons, etc.)
This system helps keep the numbers controlled on the battlefield without completely locking out players. If they make Terminators a 24/7 playable loadout/class then in a matter of months the game will have more Terminators and elite units running around than there should be on any given battlefield.
As for Dreadnoughts, since its so sticky lore wise and they are insanely powerful these should probably be restricted to battlefield NPCs that are drop podded in with a few criteria. A command element should be able to call them in using some resource, when they deploy they have a very long timer on the battlefield, despawn on death, or despawn given a victory condition. These should be terrifying warmachines that can give and take massive amounts of punishment, who turn the tide of battle. They cant portray them like that if its player run because it will cause too much anger, and will be impossible to balance without making them buttery soft and weak.
I didn't even consider that you could also do the same with weaker combat units like grots, servitors, etc to help maintain stuff since players characters are more soldier and less worker. This would also help with the ambiance, make it seem busier and chaotic...more war like instead of lifeless zones.
IMO though I think there should be some leadership gateway that must be passed in order to call in the heavy/elite/vehicle support. Perhaps limit it to an ability with global cooldown, Guild level requirement, and heavy resource requirement like Guild perks.
Almost like the Dawn of War 2 commander abilities (Pictured Below), except instead of the red color resource being from kills it can be from a Guild mechanic for any officer ranks in the Guild to activate, given the resources and the abilities not on global cooldown. Maybe add in there Thunderhawk strafing runs, or vehicles drops...whatever the Guild specializes for.
Maybe it would also be possible if there were a commander progression track, title, or unlock as well but then you hit the problem of there possibly being too many "Commanders" spamming Dreadnoughts after the game has been out long enough for a majority of people to get to that point. If so then it will only be a matter of time before dreadnought zergs will happen lol.
As for the player leader council thing they want to have they really cant rely on them for battlefield perks like this since these players cant honestly be on 24/7 to use them.
I don't like the idea of Dreadnoughts being freely requisitioned in at the cost of some monetary system. I think each guild should have a cap of active dreadnoughts but that a player can only make a dreadnought if
• They have a Space Marine of some particular 'heroic' level (i.e., you can't just start a Space Marine fresh and then change it to a Dreadnought)
• They agree to sacrifice that character. They gain access to a Dreadnought but that Dreadnought can no longer 'gain levels' but will maintain the traits that Character already gained and any benefits previously associated. A Dreadnought is automatically assigned 'proficiencies' or whatever or a free selection of Dreadnought-esque weapons and loadouts; i.e., smoke launchers, Twin-linked Lascannon etc, etc.
My main fear of cost induced Dreadnoughts is a situation where they get completely out of control. I.e., a PvE run of a hard instance where everyone is a Dreadnaught and the odd Techmarine to repair them.
I wouldnt like to have my character sacrificed , I dont know many who would although I know why you would suggest that
. If the whole game was built around perma-death and your character was going to die anyways from wounds then I would be all over that like fuzz on a peach lol.
The idea I suggested wasnt to call a dreadnaught in using a monetary system for players to use at will, it was more like a resource that is built up in battle, like in DoW2 when you get kills, that you can use at critical moments to droppod an NPC Dreadnaught in that will kill everything it can on the way to the target objective.
After every battle this "Requisition" resource for dreads, bombardments, etc. it is wiped. This is to keep people from stockpiling it, and to make it seem realllllly spectacular stuff, like something that can turn the tide of battle if used properly. I would love to see it droppod in and start spouting insane one line ramblings with its robotic voice while it starts breaking people in half as its stumbling toward the target objective during its rampage lol.
Point is, there would be no way to properly represent it in game if it is player piloted without calls for nerfs from players killed by it, without it breaking the lore of our characters piloting it by jumping in and out of it. This built in battle resource would just keep elite units from being spammable to make it a rare and feared site instead of a commonplace nuisance.
Also I would make the "resource" I mentioned invalid in PVE or have a separate set of skills that are more team oriented like inspiring rally buffs, small regens, etc. The big toys should be reserved for large objectives and PVP battles...again to make them seem like legit murder machines for war.
This is exactly what I'm hoping for. That's the best case scenario of how the devs might design it, to me. Specialization should be the key to using an advanced class, in my opinion. Respecialization should be very difficult, if not impossible. Ideally, I'd like to be able to use only one advanced class outside of the primary combat classes.
It should absolutely not be left in other players' hands nor exclusive to guilds. Guilds should be able to pool player resources to acquire perks. You shouldn't have to join a guild to unlock any class.
That's what I believe too. I think guild unlocking classes, or classes selected for people by guild officers, is prone to all manner of abuse, whether intentional or not. I'm very strongly against it.
I do believe there should be a perma-death sort of system in the game, someone mentioned a wound system and frankly I really like the idea. However, I also think perma-death shouldn't mean 'delete character', perhaps perma death could cost a hefty amount of experience or even allow agency for the Dreadnaughts that I mentioned before. I guess this depends on how important gear is to the game as well.
Here's what I think when I think of a wound system; basically it's something like the injury system from the dragon age games, except it's harder to get rid of (i.e., no drinking of 'injury kits' to get rid of them). Suffering an injury randomly negatively affects a stat of some kind, perhaps it also affects your aim. The more injuries you suffer, the more your aim, and/or movement is affected. Perhaps if you're injured a space marine can't barrel through soft cover anymore etc, etc.
Give the player a rough idea of how close they are to be 'perma deathed' but don't outright tell them; 2 more injuries and you're out.
Give stacking (but slight) bonuses for a player who courts death by suffering many injuries in a brief span of time, by some sort of bonus experience for example, you know, to make them want to court death by feeling like a total baller. Make all shots that do hit a crit for example.
Make it so wounds can only be gotten rid of by logging out in a safe area and they are logged out for some (stacking) amount of time, depending on how many injuries they've sustained. If you have an injury and you fight regardless, give an increased percentage amount of gaining another serious injury.