In EVE, in WoW and in all other B2P and P2P MMOs out there there are (or shortly will be) options to augment your gaming power by investing real hard earned cash.
Also to the OP: 12500$ sounds like much if the game (PoE) has no barriers whatsoever? Back in the pre-Plex days of EVE a very wealthy very dedicated russian businessman pumped enough GTCs into the in-game market to bankroll his own alliance (whom are still around to this day in one form or another) to such a degree that back then 30 days of in-game time was legally sold for around 100 mil isk. To put this in perspective modern post-plex/post-russian insanity plex prices (30 days of game time per plex) hover between 300 mil and 550 mil isk on average. Rough guestimates put that guy's investment into the game in the tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of USD over the span of quite a few years.
Edit:
@CyberRommel above my post: F2P games don't sell power, P2W ones do, get that straight or stop talking about the subject ( bank space, toon space, etc are optional and in most games don't cost that much anyway, if you're smart, which in this case means two functioning neurons and at least 4 years of schooling, you know that you can get allot for free or allot and a bit more fun for 15$/month, ex: firefly, not a mature game yet yes but you can bypass the grind for slightly better gear with real world money but the game still has allot of skill and is quite fun even completely free, given time it'll be a great game and a great example of F2P).
A custom forum account avatar designed to your request (Examples)
Collaborate with us designing a Unique Item based on your design!
Design a Custom Monster!
Get a physical model of your monster (Examples: Rhoa and Necro)
Get 10 codes for an in-game pet version of your monster
Free International Shipping
Path of Exile has THE best cash shop I have ever seen in any game EVER.
You guys may think it is crazy that people would buy this, but I hope as many people that can afford it do buy it. If I had the money to spare, I definitely would support GGG!
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
It's not the tactics and business practices of the "game developers" that amaze me, it's the fact that they have so many willing customers !
P2W is alive and well. All these players (or hopeful future players) are paying for their own perceived win, of course, not actual ingame power (in most cases). They are paying for "exclusivity" and a "Founder Member" badge. Amazing what people will do for status...
It's not the tactics and business practices of the "game developers" that amaze me, it's the fact that they have so many willing customers !
P2W is alive and well. All these players (or hopeful future players) are paying for their own perceived win, of course, not actual ingame power (in most cases). They are paying for "exclusivity" and a "Founder Member" badge. Amazing what people will do for status...
Why is it surprising?
Free players get free fun entertainment.
Whales get to show off their gear/status by paying for virtual stuff.
Devs get a viable business.
Win-win-win for all. F2P is becoming the dominant MMO trend not by accident.
But yes, how DARE they give people the OPTION to pay for something they enjoy! The NERVE of these people,
Can't that sarcasm be turned right back on you though? How dare people want entertainment that is free of advertising and behaviour manipulation?
There are games out there free of such things. You just have to pay for them. If you want something for nothing, then sacrifices have to be made (such as putting up with in-game ads). Just because a game is F2P doesn't mean they don't have operating costs.
Behaviour manipulation? You make it sound as if these companies are forcing people to act in a certain way, which they clearly are not. Yes there are little psychological 'tricks' used by companies to subtly influence spending habits, but the majority of these are well documented, and none of them take away an individual's right / ability to choose whether or not to spend money on the product being advertised.
I find it funny that despite the fact we live in a day & age where the information necessary to make responsible decisions is more freely available than any other time in recorded history, people are taking less and less responsibility for the consequences of their poor decisions.
It's a sad day indeed when a family is too afraid of reprisals to publicly thank somebody for saving their lives.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
Originally posted by SamuraiXIV Soon EQNext will be in that list trying to milk peoples money.
So do you live off the charity of others or do you milk the rest of the world with your job. If you feel a business is trying to milk you then stop doing business with them.
The OP is either incredibly naive or extremely immature and inexperienced.
Also people, how many times does the marketing term F2P need to be explained. Do some research.
I never play seriously any free to play aka pay to win bs games. As long as there are monthly subscription mmorpg I'll be a mmorpg gamer, if all go free to play is when I'll move on and give up
Free to play games are 100% scam and who falls for them is .... nevermind I am not here to call names.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life" My opinion
There are games out there free of such things. You just have to pay for them.
There were such games and I played them. But slowly, cash shops are moving in and taking over games that I was happily playing under one business model and gradually or suddenly transforming them into another business model.
Is it some I'm going to have to learn to live with? Yup.
Do I have to like it? No.
Do I have to keep playing those games? No.
Do I have to stay silent about why I've stopped playing them? No. (although, hard is it might be to believe, I'm actually doing my best to politely restrain myself ... but best ain't perfect though)
Is it going to damage my enjoyment of the entire industry? Yes. Trust, once lost, is hard to recover.
Do you have to care? No (although it would be nice if we could all sympathize with each other a little instead of going directly for the jugular in every thread).
Do I care that you appear frustrated about all this discussion? Well ... a little. It comes and goes.
Is this post relevent to what's going through the minds of anyone else in these flamewars? No idea, might be, might have been a complete waste of your time to read.
Originally posted by SamuraiXIV Soon EQNext will be in that list trying to milk peoples money.
So do you live off the charity of others or do you milk the rest of the world with your job. If you feel a business is trying to milk you then stop doing business with them.
The OP is either incredibly naive or extremely immature and inexperienced.
Also people, how many times does the marketing term F2P need to be explained. Do some research.
I never play seriously any free to play aka pay to win bs games. As long as there are monthly subscription mmorpg I'll be a mmorpg gamer, if all go free to play is when I'll move on and give up
Free to play games are 100% scam and who falls for them is .... nevermind I am not here to call names.
Not all free to play games are p2w. Only to those caught up in thinking p2p is the best. Eh well I dont really play either, stopped with f2p all together months ago, however ill try out the betas. Oh and that might change for me cause I believe EQN is f2p.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Originally posted by Ticklepink Ive made this point before in another thread but if you arent given access to the ENTIRE game then NO its NOT F2P. it's a tour..the cheap tour.
Originally posted by Ticklepink Ive made this point before in another thread but if you arent given access to the ENTIRE game then NO its NOT F2P. it's a tour..the cheap tour.
If you went to a free movie.. and watched the whole thing...
Then found out that someone else paid to watch the directors cut, with extra footage...
Was your movie any less free? Was it suddenly not a movie?
Just because someone else can pay for something extra, does not make your experience any less free, or the game, any less a game. Now, you may have a valid point that the free game may suck.... but that is only because you are evaluating it as a game, and not a demo (which is what you should be doing).
The vast majority of players for F2P games dont pay anything, and as such play a free game. If they dont like the free game, they should most certainly not pay for extra stuff, for a game that they dont enjoy.
but can you play the game for free? or just fragments of it ?
you let this one out and this is where the dissagreements are.
we're all agreeing on the two words you highlighted. not on the one I did.
Yes, you can play the game for free. Obviously.
If you play LoL, TF2, Smite, or any game from the OP, you've played the game.
What you're implying is that a player who plays all the way through endgame of WOW, but only as a single class out of the game's 11 classes, has not played the game. That's preposterous!
If you've played the core gameplay of a game, you've played the game. Obviously.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
If you've played the core gameplay of a game, you've played the game. Obviously.
You're splitting hairs over the semantics of a slimy marketting buzzphrase. Some people see through the facade and feel the term is disingenuous to the point of dishonest. What you say may seem perfectly rational in your own mind, but your passionate defence of the term is only reinforcing how toxic the term is in mine.
In EVE, in WoW and in all other B2P and P2P MMOs out there there are (or shortly will be) options to augment your gaming power by investing real hard earned cash.
Also to the OP: 12500$ sounds like much if the game (PoE) has no barriers whatsoever? Back in the pre-Plex days of EVE a very wealthy very dedicated russian businessman pumped enough GTCs into the in-game market to bankroll his own alliance (whom are still around to this day in one form or another) to such a degree that back then 30 days of in-game time was legally sold for around 100 mil isk. To put this in perspective modern post-plex/post-russian insanity plex prices (30 days of game time per plex) hover between 300 mil and 550 mil isk on average. Rough guestimates put that guy's investment into the game in the tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of USD over the span of quite a few years.
Edit:
@CyberRommel above my post: F2P games don't sell power, P2W ones do, get that straight or stop talking about the subject ( bank space, toon space, etc are optional and in most games don't cost that much anyway, if you're smart, which in this case means two functioning neurons and at least 4 years of schooling, you know that you can get allot for free or allot and a bit more fun for 15$/month, ex: firefly, not a mature game yet yes but you can bypass the grind for slightly better gear with real world money but the game still has allot of skill and is quite fun even completely free, given time it'll be a great game and a great example of F2P).
<div fontinregular"="">
$12,500USD
11000 Points - used for quality of life purchases if I remember correctly
Path of Exile Logo and Tabula Rasa T-Shirts - quality of life
Skill Tree Poster - quality of life
A second Skill Tree Poster with custom signing!- quality of life
Chaos Orb Keychain - quality of life
2 Path of Exile Stickers - quality of life
Your name in the Path of Exile Credits - quality of life
A custom forum account avatar designed to your request (Examples) - quality of life
Collaborate with us designing a Unique Item based on your design! - quality of life
Design a Custom Monster! - quality of life
Get a physical model of your monster (Examples: Rhoa and Necro) - quality of life
Get 10 codes for an in-game pet version of your monster - quality of life
Free International Shipping - quality of life
Path of Exile has THE best cash shop I have ever seen in any game EVER.
You guys may think it is crazy that people would buy this, but I hope as many people that can afford it do buy it. If I had the money to spare, I definitely would support GGG!
Quoted for accuracy with clarifications.
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Robokapp
but can you play the game for free? or just fragments of it ?
you let this one out and this is where the dissagreements are.
we're all agreeing on the two words you highlighted. not on the one I did.
Yes, you can play the game for free. Obviously.
If you play LoL, TF2, Smite, or any game from the OP, you've played the game.
What you're implying is that a player who plays all the way through endgame of WOW, but only as a single class out of the game's 11 classes, has not played the game. That's preposterous!
If you've played the core gameplay of a game, you've played the game. Obviously.
Incorrect, for a developer you certainly can't differentiated between playing the core game in its uninhibited form and playing it in a crippled form. Arguably in the latter you're not actually playing the game even with experience playing to core gameplay experience (ex: I've played DDO until I started hitting paywalls and gated content at which point I quite because those in my opinion do not make a F2P game, those make a Freemium at best, Pay to Win at worse, game).
Clarification: Inhibiting the core gameplay experience is gating or restricting access to features behind paywalls. This is not free to play, this is as mentioned above either freemium or pay to win (eternal crusade will use a freemium system for example but that game is not free to play).
Originally posted by Ticklepink It rips the soul out of MMOs. The soul being that status is earned via gaming..not via a CC#.
Says you. I really don't care about status. I care whether I'm having fun. I had fun in Rappelz for 3 years and never spent a penny.
If you can't stand the idea of someone else looking cooler than you, then you're going to have a bad time with F2P. If you don't care, free games are gravy for the tight budget.
I love how people make the arguement " you dont have to pay for anything, nobody forces you to spend x amount of money" But the truth is, if the game is competitve, with pvp or what not, youre going to have to spend money. Even if you only pve you have to spend money.
Tired of having to go back to town or discard items, buy another bag, want to move faster buy another mount, want that new class buy it in the cash shop! The game is free to play, but what people dont want to admit is the devs go out of their way to strip features that should be core and move it tot he cash shop.
I read someone state that "Free to play is basically for people who want someone else to pay for their gaming" and i always agreed with that statement.
I see people bitch all the time about how subs arent worth it, but honestly when you look at it, subs are cheaper. And the truth is, devs need to be paid, but paying to much is just as bad as paying to little. Why would i want to play along side a guy who has the option to spend 1000+ dollars.
Games like star citizen scare the hell out of me, serious pvp games with $5000, $10000. $15000 packages. Yet everyone is defending these so called "free to play" titles. I know for a fact i wont spend 1000 bucks on a free to play game, but i have friends who have. And dont fucking tell me it doesnt make a difference because it does.
Further proof your biased old fashioned out dated meme is wrong.
You're splitting hairs over the semantics of a slimy marketting buzzphrase. Some people see through the facade and feel the term is disingenuous to the point of dishonest. What you say may seem perfectly rational in your own mind, but your passionate defence of the term is only reinforcing how toxic the term is in mine.
What I'm saying is perfectly rational period, not just in my own mind. The game is free to play. You can play the game for free.
The only bad F2P design is pay2win design, which compromises gameplay integrity. All the lateral-purchase games out there are perfectly fine, and you're simply overreacting to dislike them so much (and actually depriving yourself of some fantastic game experiences.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You're splitting hairs over the semantics of a slimy marketting buzzphrase. Some people see through the facade and feel the term is disingenuous to the point of dishonest. What you say may seem perfectly rational in your own mind, but your passionate defence of the term is only reinforcing how toxic the term is in mine.
What I'm saying is perfectly rational period, not just in my own mind. The game is free to play. You can play the game for free.
The only bad F2P design is pay2win design, which compromises gameplay integrity. All the lateral-purchase games out there are perfectly fine, and you're simply overreacting to dislike them so much (and actually depriving yourself of some fantastic game experiences.)
Advocating playing pay to win games is not something you should do on these forums even if you have the best examples in the world.
My subscription to EQ2 for the past 8 years and expansions has cost nearly $2000. Comparatively the LOTRO lifers got a good deal. The $12k pack is an outlier and is more of a charitable donation than a purchase.
Comments
<div fontinregular"="">$12,500USD
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
It's not the tactics and business practices of the "game developers" that amaze me, it's the fact that they have so many willing customers !
P2W is alive and well. All these players (or hopeful future players) are paying for their own perceived win, of course, not actual ingame power (in most cases). They are paying for "exclusivity" and a "Founder Member" badge. Amazing what people will do for status...
Why is it surprising?
Free players get free fun entertainment.
Whales get to show off their gear/status by paying for virtual stuff.
Devs get a viable business.
Win-win-win for all. F2P is becoming the dominant MMO trend not by accident.
There are games out there free of such things. You just have to pay for them. If you want something for nothing, then sacrifices have to be made (such as putting up with in-game ads). Just because a game is F2P doesn't mean they don't have operating costs.
Behaviour manipulation? You make it sound as if these companies are forcing people to act in a certain way, which they clearly are not. Yes there are little psychological 'tricks' used by companies to subtly influence spending habits, but the majority of these are well documented, and none of them take away an individual's right / ability to choose whether or not to spend money on the product being advertised.
I find it funny that despite the fact we live in a day & age where the information necessary to make responsible decisions is more freely available than any other time in recorded history, people are taking less and less responsibility for the consequences of their poor decisions.
It's a sad day indeed when a family is too afraid of reprisals to publicly thank somebody for saving their lives.
I never play seriously any free to play aka pay to win bs games. As long as there are monthly subscription mmorpg I'll be a mmorpg gamer, if all go free to play is when I'll move on and give up
Free to play games are 100% scam and who falls for them is .... nevermind I am not here to call names.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life"
My opinion
There were such games and I played them. But slowly, cash shops are moving in and taking over games that I was happily playing under one business model and gradually or suddenly transforming them into another business model.
Is it some I'm going to have to learn to live with? Yup.
Do I have to like it? No.
Do I have to keep playing those games? No.
Do I have to stay silent about why I've stopped playing them? No. (although, hard is it might be to believe, I'm actually doing my best to politely restrain myself ... but best ain't perfect though)
Is it going to damage my enjoyment of the entire industry? Yes. Trust, once lost, is hard to recover.
Do you have to care? No (although it would be nice if we could all sympathize with each other a little instead of going directly for the jugular in every thread).
Do I care that you appear frustrated about all this discussion? Well ... a little. It comes and goes.
Is this post relevent to what's going through the minds of anyone else in these flamewars? No idea, might be, might have been a complete waste of your time to read.
Not all free to play games are p2w. Only to those caught up in thinking p2p is the best. Eh well I dont really play either, stopped with f2p all together months ago, however ill try out the betas. Oh and that might change for me cause I believe EQN is f2p.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Can you play the game? For free?
Well then...
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Whatdya mean it costs 100 dollars to buy a breakable tool for destroying the blocks?
It's called demo.
If you went to a free movie.. and watched the whole thing...
Then found out that someone else paid to watch the directors cut, with extra footage...
Was your movie any less free? Was it suddenly not a movie?
Just because someone else can pay for something extra, does not make your experience any less free, or the game, any less a game. Now, you may have a valid point that the free game may suck.... but that is only because you are evaluating it as a game, and not a demo (which is what you should be doing).
The vast majority of players for F2P games dont pay anything, and as such play a free game. If they dont like the free game, they should most certainly not pay for extra stuff, for a game that they dont enjoy.
Yes, you can play the game for free. Obviously.
If you play LoL, TF2, Smite, or any game from the OP, you've played the game.
What you're implying is that a player who plays all the way through endgame of WOW, but only as a single class out of the game's 11 classes, has not played the game. That's preposterous!
If you've played the core gameplay of a game, you've played the game. Obviously.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You're splitting hairs over the semantics of a slimy marketting buzzphrase. Some people see through the facade and feel the term is disingenuous to the point of dishonest. What you say may seem perfectly rational in your own mind, but your passionate defence of the term is only reinforcing how toxic the term is in mine.
Quoted for accuracy with clarifications.
Incorrect, for a developer you certainly can't differentiated between playing the core game in its uninhibited form and playing it in a crippled form. Arguably in the latter you're not actually playing the game even with experience playing to core gameplay experience (ex: I've played DDO until I started hitting paywalls and gated content at which point I quite because those in my opinion do not make a F2P game, those make a Freemium at best, Pay to Win at worse, game).
Clarification: Inhibiting the core gameplay experience is gating or restricting access to features behind paywalls. This is not free to play, this is as mentioned above either freemium or pay to win (eternal crusade will use a freemium system for example but that game is not free to play).
Says you. I really don't care about status. I care whether I'm having fun. I had fun in Rappelz for 3 years and never spent a penny.
If you can't stand the idea of someone else looking cooler than you, then you're going to have a bad time with F2P. If you don't care, free games are gravy for the tight budget.
Further proof your biased old fashioned out dated meme is wrong.
http://taugrim.com/2013/07/03/competing-in-world-of-tanks-without-premium-ammo-56wr-3000-battles/
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Me: Double Facepalm.
What I'm saying is perfectly rational period, not just in my own mind. The game is free to play. You can play the game for free.
The only bad F2P design is pay2win design, which compromises gameplay integrity. All the lateral-purchase games out there are perfectly fine, and you're simply overreacting to dislike them so much (and actually depriving yourself of some fantastic game experiences.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Advocating playing pay to win games is not something you should do on these forums even if you have the best examples in the world.