Just think this to the end: The roles are there but not required.
So you can take the role of a tank, but it is not required at all.
You can take the role of a healer, but it is not required at all.
You can take the role of a crowd controler, but it is not required at all.
If they are all not required, why play them ? You obviously need dps to kill the mob, but the rest... not required.
Sorry, I just can't imagine good group play without fixed roles. And I have yet to see an MMO which found a solution. And please don't mention GW2 as it's group play is awful. I give EQN the chance to prove me wrong, but I doubt they will. But I really hope they do of course. Maybe I am just nuts.
Just because something isn't required doesn't mean it isn't desirable.
For consideration in classic EQ 1:
Enchanters weren't REQUIRED in classic EQ 1, but your group would do a lot better with one along.
Split pulling wasn't REQUIRED. You could send a warrior and have him bring back the 4 mob pull. It was generally better if you split though.
Clerics weren't required either. You could try having a shaman or druid heal maybe. Wouldn't be very efficient though.
This whole discussion reminds me of the "oh don't worry, its going to be great" discussions concerning GW2 about a year ago. I fear that SOE, like Anet, is going to spend then next year working harder on convincing us how cool it will be rather than working on actually making it work.
For me, the lack of trinity combat system of GW2 killed an otherwise excellent game and incredible world. Some people like this kind of game but it is a mistake to assume that everyone likes it. If they are planning to try something like having roles but just not including a traditional tank then I am willing to give it a try. But if they make something that is largely similar to GW2 then it wont matter how well they do the rest of the game, I won't be playing.
I suspect that EQN is not going to completely remove healing others like GW2 did. I also think there can be a specialization in healing without having the hard trinity.
One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.
And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group? Then what... Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?
Quit fearing change. Change is necessary to evolve into better situations. With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people. Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.
How about allowing role switching and uber-flexible classes, then? In Rift, for instance, 75% of the classes could tank and 50% of them could heal. Take five random people in Rift and there's a good chance you have at least one that can perform each role.
One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.
And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group? Then what... Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?
Quit fearing change. Change is necessary to evolve into better situations. With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people. Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.
This excuse is just as ridiculous now as it was in the EQ Next reveal.
They have tons of classes and could easily make several viable healers. They've also given the ability to both change classes, and multiclass. Thats THREE ways they've already rectified the problem, without having to remove key elements of fantasy rpg gameplay.
Its not change we're afraid of, its stupidity.
They already have the answer to not enough healers and tanks to get things done, multiclass. Give everyone the option to take their turn to tank and heal when people who like to play that type of role is not around. Lots of people in Rift (myself in cluded) played as many roles as they could to make teams work. They better have something really good if they have removed the trinity. I think its just gona be pong.
If it based around AI, why not snare the mob and voilà! The mob attacks the tank. Can't get to healer. Give that toon something that plays against the mob personality, and he will prioritize that character (your tank) over the other melee.
How is that pong? Creative players will win in this game, people need to start thinking outside the box.
Thats called aggro control and thats not in this game. You will have no control over how what mob hits what player. Be it by skills or actions. You can control the battle field but unless they have collision tanking. Then each battle would have to be set up to keep the defensive class in the area that was getting hit. Remove from your mind any way to get the mob to do what you want and now tell me how a class can tank. SoE was also very clear there was only defensive roles (maybe pass on buffs to team mates) but you in no way could tank. I get your pain, I wish there was. Im not saying this to troll but you cant tank.
You're assuming that the mobs are not phased by anything the player does. That is opposite what they said they wanted to achieve. They said the monsters will react to players, so ... outsmart the mob vs. out dps them. Force them to do what you want them to do, rather than having them control you.
They said nothing about snap aggro for certain abilities, they only talked about general behavior and high level play-style. No standing on corner hitting taunt.
They didn't say "There is no way for you to tank." They said, there wont be a "Tank" like you are used to.
As for your question in orange, I say that plate armor is in the game for a reason. Snap aggro is still a possibility that I very much see being in the game because of storybricks. If monsters are infuriated by certain actions, have the character you want to take hits perform those actions. Have that character wear heavy armor. Have that character use defensive skills and a shield.
"Tanking" is nothing more than absorbing the brunt of the damage, and mitigating it enough to make the fight worthwhile. I don't see why that can't happen.
My name is Chris, and I am a healer. Healers, I love to play them. I know that is abhorrent behavior for many of you, but I love it. My EQ Next fervor is tainted with fear. Fear they don’t want me or my kind.
I am excited about EQ Next in a big way, but I am also concerned the multiclass system will be much like GW2 and take a crap on anyone who wants to heal. I really wanted to play that game, but it seemed at every turn the dev team put things in place to keep my kind out. DPS Wars was no fun for us support class gamers.
It is sad, but ultimately “I am afraid my play style is now considered niche and I won’t have a place in the new EQ.”
One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.
I believe in creative destruction, am interested in the new AI, love SOEmote, but accept when things change some things might go away. I am still sadden though.
I still want to heal. In this game. Please SOE, let me heal.
My name is Chris, and I am healer.
Chris please come and join FFXIV: ARR where you can be a healer all you want. No need to be locked to EQN just cause of the name EQ you don't have to change your playing style.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life" My opinion
Originally posted by Mardukk I suspect that EQN is not going to completely remove healing others like GW2 did. I also think there can be a specialization in healing without having the hard trinity.
You watch then, I bet the first word on healing with be its mostly AE healing and cones. Thats when you will know healing classes are not really in the game. You are a DPS class with 10-20% heal and like GW2 your damage you take is looked after by each player, not the healer.
With everyone being able to multiclass to get healing abilities I suspect that it will be similar to GW2, self sufficiency.
I also suspect there won't be any tanks, Devs are just saying that their will be tanks but a different kind of tank to minimize scrutiny. They said there won't be a trinity, say the emergent AI makes it obsolete, and yet they say there will be tanks... sounds hypocritical. EQN sounds and feels like it will be a free-for-all without any specific roles, just a "stay out of the red circle nub" and "slot a healing ability nub."
wow this is pathetic , who are you guys to demand how theyre going to craft their game ?? get over it , it is as it is....
even a Forest Gump could handle this. Grow up just a little
Yeah, it's pathetic that a potential paying customer of a game voices their opinion of something they do or do not want in a game. Isn't that what these forums are for?
My name is Chris, and I am a healer. Healers, I love to play them. I know that is abhorrent behavior for many of you, but I love it. My EQ Next fervor is tainted with fear. Fear they don’t want me or my kind.
I am excited about EQ Next in a big way, but I am also concerned the multiclass system will be much like GW2 and take a crap on anyone who wants to heal. I really wanted to play that game, but it seemed at every turn the dev team put things in place to keep my kind out. DPS Wars was no fun for us support class gamers.
It is sad, but ultimately “I am afraid my play style is now considered niche and I won’t have a place in the new EQ.”
One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.
I believe in creative destruction, am interested in the new AI, love SOEmote, but accept when things change some things might go away. I am still sadden though.
I still want to heal. In this game. Please SOE, let me heal.
My name is Chris, and I am healer.
Chris please come and join FFXIV: ARR where you can be a healer all you want. No need to be locked to EQN just cause of the name EQ you don't have to change your playing style.
There you go. Same old, same old. A bit different, superficially, but the mechanics would be comforting and familiar for you.
wow this is pathetic , who are you guys to demand how theyre going to craft their game ?? get over it , it is as it is....
even a Forest Gump could handle this. Grow up just a little
Yeah, it's pathetic that a potential paying customer of a game voices their opinion of something they do or do not want in a game. Isn't that what these forums are for?
Pathetic is to name yourself bepolite and act like a duche.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life" My opinion
Currently, there is 1 guy at SOE that is smarter than the 1000's on this forum. Because it doesn't matter how we twist and turn, none has yet to come up with a viable solution to a no-trinity system that people like.
No, I don't believe this bullshit that comes from SOE about this. I also bet that they are reading like crazy here and sees that all the solutions that's been talked about is not positive ones. I wonder, if the smart ass at SOE has one of those solutions as the brainy one. LOL
UO, SWG, EVE, and GW1 are all games without the trinity.
Hmm, I don't know about yellow ones, because I haven't played them. In SWG, I was a TKM/Doc I think. I did pretty good as a tank/healer of myself while others was at a range distance, if I remember correctly.
Then I had the Jedi, but rarely grouped with anyone pre-cu. After, if memory doesn't fail, we pretty much all were dps. So, that's how this game will work. Everybody will know dps/heal except for those that go with dps all out, meaning no heals and they rely on others for the heals?
Just think this to the end: The roles are there but not required.
So you can take the role of a tank, but it is not required at all.
You can take the role of a healer, but it is not required at all.
You can take the role of a crowd controler, but it is not required at all.
If they are all not required, why play them ? You obviously need dps to kill the mob, but the rest... not required.
Sorry, I just can't imagine good group play without fixed roles. And I have yet to see an MMO which found a solution. And please don't mention GW2 as it's group play is awful. I give EQN the chance to prove me wrong, but I doubt they will. But I really hope they do of course. Maybe I am just nuts.
Just because something isn't required doesn't mean it isn't desirable.
For consideration in classic EQ 1:
Enchanters weren't REQUIRED in classic EQ 1, but your group would do a lot better with one along.
Split pulling wasn't REQUIRED. You could send a warrior and have him bring back the 4 mob pull. It was generally better if you split though.
Clerics weren't required either. You could try having a shaman or druid heal maybe. Wouldn't be very efficient though.
But why should those roles be desirable for a group ? It can't be to be able to beat harder content because that would make those roles required. It can't be to be more efficient because that would more or less make them required also.
In EQ1 you had an enchanter to reduce downtime (and other stuff ofc), you did split pulling because it was more efficient or you even could handle mobs you couldn't beat otherwise. Same for clerics. All those roles were desireable and required depending on content you were after. You could even play around with those roles and try diffenrt things. But if none is required, what does it mean for content ? Why try anything special ? Each encounter will be beatable without any needed roles. It will be easy peasy ping pong spanking I fear.
Sorry, maybe I don't get it. But it is late now and I need some sleep. I will just hope for a miracle.
wow this is pathetic , who are you guys to demand how theyre going to craft their game ?? get over it , it is as it is....
even a Forest Gump could handle this. Grow up just a little
Ultimately, I am a potential consumer. Just responding to the press put out by SOE. Its a for profit business, and consumer opinions are typically valued in commerce. However, I was in the very early stages of GW2 beta, and gave much the same feedback to them.
I still bought GW2 so joke is on me. I admit I will most likely buy EQ Next, but long term play will depend on if I can play the game as something other than rogue/ranger dps.
Nothing against the skill of the DPS people, love watching you "kick his ass seabass", but it is not my thing.
People should have been more vocal leading up to the GW2 launch and maybe they would have worked on it a bit harder...doubt it, but maybe. Even Microsoft switched directions on XBone based on consumer feedback.
I don't want anyone to not be able to play without a healer, but the best content should require a diverse group.
One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.
And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group? Then what... Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?
Quit fearing change. Change is necessary to evolve into better situations. With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people. Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.
This excuse is just as ridiculous now as it was in the EQ Next reveal.
They have tons of classes and could easily make several viable healers. They've also given the ability to both change classes, and multiclass. Thats THREE ways they've already rectified the problem, without having to remove key elements of fantasy rpg gameplay.
Its not change we're afraid of, its stupidity.
They already have the answer to not enough healers and tanks to get things done, multiclass. Give everyone the option to take their turn to tank and heal when people who like to play that type of role is not around. Lots of people in Rift (myself in cluded) played as many roles as they could to make teams work. They better have something really good if they have removed the trinity. I think its just gona be pong.
If it based around AI, why not snare the mob and voilà! The mob attacks the tank. Can't get to healer. Give that toon something that plays against the mob personality, and he will prioritize that character (your tank) over the other melee.
How is that pong? Creative players will win in this game, people need to start thinking outside the box.
Thats called aggro control and thats not in this game. You will have no control over how what mob hits what player. Be it by skills or actions. You can control the battle field but unless they have collision tanking. Then each battle would have to be set up to keep the defensive class in the area that was getting hit. Remove from your mind any way to get the mob to do what you want and now tell me how a class can tank. SoE was also very clear there was only defensive roles (maybe pass on buffs to team mates) but you in no way could tank. I get your pain, I wish there was. Im not saying this to troll but you cant tank.
You're assuming that the mobs are not phased by anything the player does. That is opposite what they said they wanted to achieve. They said the monsters will react to players, so ... outsmart the mob vs. out dps them. Force them to do what you want them to do, rather than having them control you.
They said nothing about snap aggro for certain abilities, they only talked about general behavior and high level play-style. No standing on corner hitting taunt.
They didn't say "There is no way for you to tank." They said, there wont be a "Tank" like you are used to.
As for your question in orange, I say that plate armor is in the game for a reason. Snap aggro is still a possibility that I very much see being in the game because of storybricks. If monsters are infuriated by certain actions, have the character you want to take hits perform those actions. Have that character wear heavy armor. Have that character use defensive skills and a shield.
"Tanking" is nothing more than absorbing the brunt of the damage, and mitigating it enough to make the fight worthwhile. I don't see why that can't happen.
Devs words...
"It will be impossible for someone to be what you would call a tank in another game - "
End game, impossible, we will have defensive roles but no tanking. Think what that means. Some knock backs? Stuns? Maybe some buffs to bolster our teams? None of that is tanking.
"It will be impossible for someone to be what you would call a tank in another game - "
End game, impossible, we will have defensive roles but no tanking. Think what that means. Some knock backs? Stuns? Maybe some buffs to bolster our teams? None of that is tanking.
OP I hear you. I like playing all sorts of types of characters including healers and tanks. It provides me with variety in a game, killing the trinity concept very quickly puts me off a game.
For all those moaning about having to wait! YEH THAT IS WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN! You make friends and you play together try to sync play times and have fun!
EQNext is another game that is slowly hurting my interest in the genre. Soon we will all "have it now" and we will all be dps types running around with little individuality.
Quite frankly tired of it.... heck even mobas have tanks and healers! If the trinity is so bad why do other genres adopt the concept.
"It will be impossible for someone to be what you would call a tank in another game - "
End game, impossible, we will have defensive roles but no tanking. Think what that means. Some knock backs? Stuns? Maybe some buffs to bolster our teams? None of that is tanking.
With the firm stance on tanking, I am feeling confident the healing will have been shoved aside as well.
You watch, first words on healing is everyone will be responsible for their own damage. Most heals will be cone and AE heals. Thats when you know its gone to the potty and more GW2 talk that we are not to compare EQN to GW2 lol
One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.
And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group? Then what... Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?
Quit fearing change. Change is necessary to evolve into better situations. With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people. Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.
Make friends with a Cleric.
Join a guild.
Find a Priest.
Do something else.
Having tanks/healers didn't create the "sit in town and queue for X" gameplay style.
Laziness did.
Taking away tanks/healers won't remove the laziness either.
LFD/LFG/LFR systems are great, because they can fill a need. But how lazy and worthless and spoiled are you people that you COMPLAIN you have to wait 10 minutes for the game to do everything for you?
Don't like to wait? Roll a healer or tank.
Don't want to tank or heal?
Do something else while you wait - craft, quest, socialize, gather, PvP, explore, etc. etc. etc.
Simple trade offs. It's easy. NOTHING needs to change, there is NO problem other than players = shit.
Here is a fact of life - you will be waiting on other people, and be forced to rely on other people for your entire life.
I'm not 100% sure this wasn't already posted in this thread but I saw people saying that healing wasn't mentioned at all at SOE. in fact it was briefly along with defensive minded classes as follows:
<p bbcodequote"="">
We do have classes that, I don’t want to say lean towards a role, but certainly will have abilities that fit more in line with what you think of as a healer or a tank. It is important for us that if you enjoy playing defensively, say you are a warrior and you are used to being sort of the front line, we still want you to be able to do that. We want you to be able to play the way you want to play. What we don’t want is you staring at a threat meter or insulting the NPC’s mom to get him to attack you. That’s not the type of gameplay we are looking for.
One point to make, our NPC’s are not stupid enough to attack the same person over and over and over again while the rest of the party is killing them. They will be able to figure out how you are hurting them, and they will stop you from doing it.
While we definitely don’t have those mechanics in there, we want you to be able to play defensively, or play a support role, but we are very careful to not have to require them so that your 10 friends can do content without having to have…the tank. We don’t want that.
So there will indeed be heals to quell that fear... whether or not they'll be advantageous is another thing.
One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.
And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group? Then what... Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?
Quit fearing change. Change is necessary to evolve into better situations. With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people. Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.
Make friends with a Cleric.
Join a guild.
Find a Priest.
Do something else.
Having tanks/healers didn't create the "sit in town and queue for X" gameplay style.
Laziness did.
Taking away tanks/healers won't remove the laziness either.
LFD/LFG/LFR systems are great, because they can fill a need. But how lazy and worthless and spoiled are you people that you COMPLAIN you have to wait 10 minutes for the game to do everything for you?
Don't like to wait? Roll a healer or tank.
Don't want to tank or heal?
Do something else while you wait - craft, quest, socialize, gather, PvP, explore, etc. etc. etc.
Simple trade offs. It's easy. NOTHING needs to change, there is NO problem other than players = shit.
Here is a fact of life - you will be waiting on other people, and be forced to rely on other people for your entire life.
If they don't kill it, they at least need to make it A LOT better than every holy trinity themepark MMO. It should be a mix of healing and support where every heal must be carefully cast and the healer won't be able to heal someone from 10 hp to max in a second. They should also need to control their "mana" (if there's any I'm not sure at all) the best way possible so that they can't run out of heals. I want to play a healer where you need to use your head instead of watching HP bars, debuffs and stuff like that.
I'm not 100% sure this wasn't already posted in this thread but I saw people saying that healing wasn't mentioned at all at SOE. in fact it was briefly along with defensive minded classes as follows:
<p bbcodequote"="">
We do have classes that, I don’t want to say lean towards a role, but certainly will have abilities that fit more in line with what you think of as a healer or a tank. It is important for us that if you enjoy playing defensively, say you are a warrior and you are used to being sort of the front line, we still want you to be able to do that. We want you to be able to play the way you want to play. What we don’t want is you staring at a threat meter or insulting the NPC’s mom to get him to attack you. That’s not the type of gameplay we are looking for.
One point to make, our NPC’s are not stupid enough to attack the same person over and over and over again while the rest of the party is killing them. They will be able to figure out how you are hurting them, and they will stop you from doing it.
While we definitely don’t have those mechanics in there, we want you to be able to play defensively, or play a support role, but we are very careful to not have to require them so that your 10 friends can do content without having to have…the tank. We don’t want that.
So there will indeed be heals to quell that fear... whether or not they'll be advantageous is another thing.
Their goal is still to remove the need. Some other mix of tools to make a team have synergy like a trinity team but not rely on the roles of tank and heals. What the tools sets are? CC maybe? Maybe everyone will have some form of CC. Warrior stuns, Mages blinds, Rogue saps, enchanter mezzes. This is all guessing other then they never want to leave you waiting for a mix of classes that will make the team work. If everyone gets a heal like GW2 I will laugh lol
Comments
Just because something isn't required doesn't mean it isn't desirable.
For consideration in classic EQ 1:
Enchanters weren't REQUIRED in classic EQ 1, but your group would do a lot better with one along.
Split pulling wasn't REQUIRED. You could send a warrior and have him bring back the 4 mob pull. It was generally better if you split though.
Clerics weren't required either. You could try having a shaman or druid heal maybe. Wouldn't be very efficient though.
This whole discussion reminds me of the "oh don't worry, its going to be great" discussions concerning GW2 about a year ago. I fear that SOE, like Anet, is going to spend then next year working harder on convincing us how cool it will be rather than working on actually making it work.
For me, the lack of trinity combat system of GW2 killed an otherwise excellent game and incredible world. Some people like this kind of game but it is a mistake to assume that everyone likes it. If they are planning to try something like having roles but just not including a traditional tank then I am willing to give it a try. But if they make something that is largely similar to GW2 then it wont matter how well they do the rest of the game, I won't be playing.
All die, so die well.
How about allowing role switching and uber-flexible classes, then? In Rift, for instance, 75% of the classes could tank and 50% of them could heal. Take five random people in Rift and there's a good chance you have at least one that can perform each role.
You're assuming that the mobs are not phased by anything the player does. That is opposite what they said they wanted to achieve. They said the monsters will react to players, so ... outsmart the mob vs. out dps them. Force them to do what you want them to do, rather than having them control you.
They said nothing about snap aggro for certain abilities, they only talked about general behavior and high level play-style. No standing on corner hitting taunt.
They didn't say "There is no way for you to tank." They said, there wont be a "Tank" like you are used to.
As for your question in orange, I say that plate armor is in the game for a reason. Snap aggro is still a possibility that I very much see being in the game because of storybricks. If monsters are infuriated by certain actions, have the character you want to take hits perform those actions. Have that character wear heavy armor. Have that character use defensive skills and a shield.
"Tanking" is nothing more than absorbing the brunt of the damage, and mitigating it enough to make the fight worthwhile. I don't see why that can't happen.
wow this is pathetic , who are you guys to demand how theyre going to craft their game ?? get over it , it is as it is....
even a Forest Gump could handle this. Grow up just a little
Chris please come and join FFXIV: ARR where you can be a healer all you want. No need to be locked to EQN just cause of the name EQ you don't have to change your playing style.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life"
My opinion
You watch then, I bet the first word on healing with be its mostly AE healing and cones. Thats when you will know healing classes are not really in the game. You are a DPS class with 10-20% heal and like GW2 your damage you take is looked after by each player, not the healer.
With everyone being able to multiclass to get healing abilities I suspect that it will be similar to GW2, self sufficiency.
I also suspect there won't be any tanks, Devs are just saying that their will be tanks but a different kind of tank to minimize scrutiny. They said there won't be a trinity, say the emergent AI makes it obsolete, and yet they say there will be tanks... sounds hypocritical. EQN sounds and feels like it will be a free-for-all without any specific roles, just a "stay out of the red circle nub" and "slot a healing ability nub."
Yeah, it's pathetic that a potential paying customer of a game voices their opinion of something they do or do not want in a game. Isn't that what these forums are for?
There you go. Same old, same old. A bit different, superficially, but the mechanics would be comforting and familiar for you.
Pathetic is to name yourself bepolite and act like a duche.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life"
My opinion
Hmm, I don't know about yellow ones, because I haven't played them. In SWG, I was a TKM/Doc I think. I did pretty good as a tank/healer of myself while others was at a range distance, if I remember correctly.
Then I had the Jedi, but rarely grouped with anyone pre-cu. After, if memory doesn't fail, we pretty much all were dps. So, that's how this game will work. Everybody will know dps/heal except for those that go with dps all out, meaning no heals and they rely on others for the heals?
But why should those roles be desirable for a group ? It can't be to be able to beat harder content because that would make those roles required. It can't be to be more efficient because that would more or less make them required also.
In EQ1 you had an enchanter to reduce downtime (and other stuff ofc), you did split pulling because it was more efficient or you even could handle mobs you couldn't beat otherwise. Same for clerics. All those roles were desireable and required depending on content you were after. You could even play around with those roles and try diffenrt things. But if none is required, what does it mean for content ? Why try anything special ? Each encounter will be beatable without any needed roles. It will be easy peasy ping pong spanking I fear.
Sorry, maybe I don't get it. But it is late now and I need some sleep. I will just hope for a miracle.
Ultimately, I am a potential consumer. Just responding to the press put out by SOE. Its a for profit business, and consumer opinions are typically valued in commerce. However, I was in the very early stages of GW2 beta, and gave much the same feedback to them.
I still bought GW2 so joke is on me. I admit I will most likely buy EQ Next, but long term play will depend on if I can play the game as something other than rogue/ranger dps.
Nothing against the skill of the DPS people, love watching you "kick his ass seabass", but it is not my thing.
People should have been more vocal leading up to the GW2 launch and maybe they would have worked on it a bit harder...doubt it, but maybe. Even Microsoft switched directions on XBone based on consumer feedback.
I don't want anyone to not be able to play without a healer, but the best content should require a diverse group.
Devs words...
"It will be impossible for someone to be what you would call a tank in another game - "
End game, impossible, we will have defensive roles but no tanking. Think what that means. Some knock backs? Stuns? Maybe some buffs to bolster our teams? None of that is tanking.
Read for yourself here!!!
With the firm stance on tanking, I am feeling confident the healing will have been shoved aside as well.
OP I hear you. I like playing all sorts of types of characters including healers and tanks. It provides me with variety in a game, killing the trinity concept very quickly puts me off a game.
For all those moaning about having to wait! YEH THAT IS WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN! You make friends and you play together try to sync play times and have fun!
EQNext is another game that is slowly hurting my interest in the genre. Soon we will all "have it now" and we will all be dps types running around with little individuality.
Quite frankly tired of it.... heck even mobas have tanks and healers! If the trinity is so bad why do other genres adopt the concept.
F..sake Dre Im tired, get up!
You watch, first words on healing is everyone will be responsible for their own damage. Most heals will be cone and AE heals. Thats when you know its gone to the potty and more GW2 talk that we are not to compare EQN to GW2 lol
Make friends with a Cleric.
Join a guild.
Find a Priest.
Do something else.
Having tanks/healers didn't create the "sit in town and queue for X" gameplay style.
Laziness did.
Taking away tanks/healers won't remove the laziness either.
LFD/LFG/LFR systems are great, because they can fill a need. But how lazy and worthless and spoiled are you people that you COMPLAIN you have to wait 10 minutes for the game to do everything for you?
Don't like to wait? Roll a healer or tank.
Don't want to tank or heal?
Do something else while you wait - craft, quest, socialize, gather, PvP, explore, etc. etc. etc.
Simple trade offs. It's easy. NOTHING needs to change, there is NO problem other than players = shit.
Here is a fact of life - you will be waiting on other people, and be forced to rely on other people for your entire life.
A little bit of patience goes a long way.
Interdependence builds community.
I'm not 100% sure this wasn't already posted in this thread but I saw people saying that healing wasn't mentioned at all at SOE. in fact it was briefly along with defensive minded classes as follows:
<p bbcodequote"="">We do have classes that, I don’t want to say lean towards a role, but certainly will have abilities that fit more in line with what you think of as a healer or a tank. It is important for us that if you enjoy playing defensively, say you are a warrior and you are used to being sort of the front line, we still want you to be able to do that. We want you to be able to play the way you want to play. What we don’t want is you staring at a threat meter or insulting the NPC’s mom to get him to attack you. That’s not the type of gameplay we are looking for.
One point to make, our NPC’s are not stupid enough to attack the same person over and over and over again while the rest of the party is killing them. They will be able to figure out how you are hurting them, and they will stop you from doing it.
While we definitely don’t have those mechanics in there, we want you to be able to play defensively, or play a support role, but we are very careful to not have to require them so that your 10 friends can do content without having to have…the tank. We don’t want that.
So there will indeed be heals to quell that fear... whether or not they'll be advantageous is another thing.
Kaboom.
Thread over.
Their goal is still to remove the need. Some other mix of tools to make a team have synergy like a trinity team but not rely on the roles of tank and heals. What the tools sets are? CC maybe? Maybe everyone will have some form of CC. Warrior stuns, Mages blinds, Rogue saps, enchanter mezzes. This is all guessing other then they never want to leave you waiting for a mix of classes that will make the team work. If everyone gets a heal like GW2 I will laugh lol