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Another PVP slip: "We probably wouldn't let someone come in and destroy the newbie area, that's a mo

BidwoodBidwood Member Posts: 554
in EverQuest Next

"The idea is that while everything can be destructible, it doesn't mean we're going to let everything be destructible," he said.

"We're going to use permission systems and tools to make sure the game is enjoyable for everyone who's playing it. We probably wouldn't let someone come in and destroy the newbie area, that's a more protected area. But maybe NPCs, for instance, can destroy part of that area, because it's part of the content going on in there.

"Without a doubt there are lots of griefing opportunities we haven't seen in this kind of game before. There's visual griefing in Landmark, where the idea of creativity is so important. People could actually try to impede other people's ability to see your stuff. We have to think about these things and tackle these things that are unique to our game. We did it to EverQuest and the things people could do there, and we'll do it again in EverQuest Next and make sure players have an enjoyable experience."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-08-12-everquest-next-a-pc-orientated-launch

 

So yeah like I said... good design choices to limit griefing, but the game they're making has a lot more griefing opportunities. (Open-world PVP, naturally.) With some protected areas like newbie zones.

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Comments

  • grifjgrifj Member Posts: 110
    Those quotes don't make any allusion to PVP.  That just means they don't want people running around griefing folks by destructing the terrain in the newbie area.
  • DrakephireDrakephire Member UncommonPosts: 451

    No doubt SOE will have to patrol for the inevitable juveniles (in mentality, not necessarily age) who will construct stone genitalia, vulgar or racist words, etc.

     

     

  • BidwoodBidwood Member Posts: 554

    It implies destroying terrain can hurt other players though.

     

    Like if I cause an avalanche above someone it's going to damage them or something.

     

    So if that's turned off in newbie areas, what about everywhere else? What if you're fighting a dragon and I bring a bunch of rock down on top of you? Those are the areas where I see PVP on because the way the game works means inevitable conflicts that need to be duked out.

  • DrakynnDrakynn Member Posts: 2,030
    Originally posted by grifj
    Those quotes don't make any allusion to PVP.  That just means they don't want people running around griefing folks by destructing the terrain in the newbie area.

    It could be an allusion to PvP but it could also mean what you say and I'd take it further they won't let guild zergs come through and wipe the newbies zones clean of anything to do.

    SOE the kings of ambiguity.

  • BidwoodBidwood Member Posts: 554
    Originally posted by Drakynn
    Originally posted by grifj
    Those quotes don't make any allusion to PVP.  That just means they don't want people running around griefing folks by destructing the terrain in the newbie area.

    It could be an allusion to PvP but it could also mean what you say and I'd take it further they won't let guild zergs come through and wipe the newbies zones clean of anything to do.

    SOE the kings of ambiguity.

    Yes, they are really good with the ambiguity. And I bet they have fun with it.

  • KarteliKarteli Member CommonPosts: 2,646
    Originally posted by grifj
    Those quotes don't make any allusion to PVP.  That just means they don't want people running around griefing folks by destructing the terrain in the newbie area.

    Agree,  nothing to do with PVP.

     

    The newbie areas are protected!  Whooptie Doo!  They are protected in other games too.

     

    It's at least nice to know EQN is copying WoW style zones with safe vs contested areas.  They are presumed to be copying a huge amount from other games, but at least they admit to copying WoW for starters.

     

    Once those newbs leave the protected area, well that is a good PVP topic .. !  Unless that get's nerfed?

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  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,139

    While they have made it clear that PVP will be present in some form, these statements are not PVP centered.

    More like running a train over a group in EQ. Not PVP, just griefing. It could be considered "PVP" in the broadest sense, but I'm assuming most can see the difference between the two.

    Hopefully they do have PVP servers and allow for a lot of creative ways to disrupt/kill others while allowing more acceptable forms of "griefing" then what could happen on the PVE servers.

    Too much freedom though and you'll have empty PVP servers as it has been in the past. It is great fun for a while, but eventually people lose interest in always winning or always losing. Throw in having your home/castle or whatever burnt to the ground, rage quitting will not be too far behind.

     

  • wasaguestwasaguest Member Posts: 27
    Why am I getting the impression that for the first few weeks of release; this game will have nearly non-stop "Griefing Reports" and massive bans or people walking away in droves leaving the game void of players...?
  • Dagon13Dagon13 Member UncommonPosts: 566

    I agree that they aren't talking about PVP here, but it's also obvious what their stance is towards griefing.  I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect this attitude to carry over into PVP in some aspect.

    This is oddly relevant to current events in the US regarding the NSA.  At what cost to our freedom do we gain protection from harm.  EQN needs to be very careful and strike a balance or they could stifle player creativity to the point that it defeats the purpose of their systems.

  • kellian1kellian1 Member UncommonPosts: 238
    Originally posted by Bidwood

     

    "We're going to use permission systems and tools to make sure the game is enjoyable for everyone who's playing it. 

    So yeah like I said... good design choices to limit griefing, but the game they're making has a lot more griefing opportunities. (Open-world PVP, naturally.) With some protected areas like newbie zones.

    How you got open world PvP from this I have no idea.

    If anything this means they are going to make PvP optional at best or (as many of us have been saying) have different servers for PvE where the above holds true and PvP where anything goes.

     

  • BidwoodBidwood Member Posts: 554
    Originally posted by wasaguest
    Why am I getting the impression that for the first few weeks of release; this game will have nearly non-stop "Griefing Reports" and massive bans or people walking away in droves leaving the game void of players...?

    There probably will be lots of griefing in ways they didn't anticipate. Things about the way the world works that allow you to grief someone. Like opening a hole under them, destroying something above them etc. That's why I believe PVP combat is necessary - because other forms of indirect PVP will be happening all the time. They're opening Pandora's Vox(el).

     

    That's where all of the data the servers collect about player interractions will come in handy. Because they can't have the sandbox they're describing and completely stop PVP, they're going to need to punish griefers in other ways. Like griefers become outcasts and can't do a lot of stuff. NPCs hate and attack them, won't sell stuff, etc.

  • BidwoodBidwood Member Posts: 554
    Originally posted by kellian1
    Originally posted by Bidwood

     

    "We're going to use permission systems and tools to make sure the game is enjoyable for everyone who's playing it. 

    So yeah like I said... good design choices to limit griefing, but the game they're making has a lot more griefing opportunities. (Open-world PVP, naturally.) With some protected areas like newbie zones.

    How you got open world PvP from this I have no idea.

    If anything this means they are going to make PvP optional at best or (as many of us have been saying) have different servers for PvE where the above holds true and PvP where anything goes.

     

    You left out the part of my post that had to do with PVP. So I'm not surprised you don't get it.

  • kellian1kellian1 Member UncommonPosts: 238
    Originally posted by Bidwood
    Originally posted by kellian1
    Originally posted by Bidwood

     

    "We're going to use permission systems and tools to make sure the game is enjoyable for everyone who's playing it. 

    So yeah like I said... good design choices to limit griefing, but the game they're making has a lot more griefing opportunities. (Open-world PVP, naturally.) With some protected areas like newbie zones.

    How you got open world PvP from this I have no idea.

    If anything this means they are going to make PvP optional at best or (as many of us have been saying) have different servers for PvE where the above holds true and PvP where anything goes.

     

    You left out the part of my post that had to do with PVP. So I'm not surprised you don't get it.

    Nope...read the entire thing and still have no idea where you got open world PvP from. Oh and yeah the part I quoted DOES have to do with PvP and its implementation and pretty much kills the open world PvP idea.

     

  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,749
    Seems to me that owpvp would have been too important not to announce at the convention as it would completely change how the game plays, instead they focused on things like storybooks and meaningful questing and dynamic events.  I think at best you might see pvp zones or servers.

    image
  • wasaguestwasaguest Member Posts: 27
    Originally posted by Bidwood
    Originally posted by wasaguest
    Why am I getting the impression that for the first few weeks of release; this game will have nearly non-stop "Griefing Reports" and massive bans or people walking away in droves leaving the game void of players...?

    There probably will be lots of griefing in ways they didn't anticipate. Things about the way the world works that allow you to grief someone. Like opening a hole under them, destroying something above them etc. That's why I believe PVP combat is necessary - because other forms of indirect PVP will be happening all the time. They're opening Pandora's Vox(el).

     

    That's where all of the data the servers collect about player interractions will come in handy. Because they can't have the sandbox they're describing and completely stop PVP, they're going to need to punish griefers in other ways. Like griefers become outcasts and can't do a lot of stuff. NPCs hate and attack them, won't sell stuff, etc.

    Hmm. I still don't see how that relates at all to PvP; unless you are talking about the players themselves killing the griefer. Which seems a waste of time to me cause that's probably what the griefer wants and needs; some kind of attention they can't get otherwise.

    Report, move on. It's EQ(N); if SOE makes the tiering up process a real investment in time and effort; then a Ban for someone that can't behave themselves would seriously cost the griefer. That should be enough IMO anyway.

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,139

    Originally posted by Bidwood

    That's where all of the data the servers collect about player interractions will come in handy. Because they can't have the sandbox they're describing and completely stop PVP, they're going to need to punish griefers in other ways. Like griefers become outcasts and can't do a lot of stuff. NPCs hate and attack them, won't sell stuff, etc.

    Originally posted by Bidwood

    Originally posted by kellian1
    Originally posted by Bidwood

     

    "We're going to use permission systems and tools to make sure the game is enjoyable for everyone who's playing it. 

    So yeah like I said... good design choices to limit griefing, but the game they're making has a lot more griefing opportunities. (Open-world PVP, naturally.) With some protected areas like newbie zones.

    How you got open world PvP from this I have no idea.

    If anything this means they are going to make PvP optional at best or (as many of us have been saying) have different servers for PvE where the above holds true and PvP where anything goes.

     

    You left out the part of my post that had to do with PVP. So I'm not surprised you don't get it.

    How would NPCs know if someone is griefing? If I dig a hole, you fall in and die, an NPC across the map isn't going to know. If I kill an NPC, yes I could see data collection helping, but the hole killed the player, not me.

    Permission System is opposite of OW PVP, at least non-consensual. There could be a flag system along with OW PVP, but usually OW PVP and Consensual do not go hand in hand.

  • MarkusrindMarkusrind Member Posts: 359
    hehe I love your optimism but really, nothing you have posted or the devs have posted so far leads me to believe they will have OW PvP. PvP in some form yes...but OW PvP no.
  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Member UncommonPosts: 2,051
    Originally posted by kellian1
    Originally posted by Bidwood

     

    "We're going to use permission systems and tools to make sure the game is enjoyable for everyone who's playing it. 

    So yeah like I said... good design choices to limit griefing, but the game they're making has a lot more griefing opportunities. (Open-world PVP, naturally.) With some protected areas like newbie zones.

    How you got open world PvP from this I have no idea.

    If anything this means they are going to make PvP optional at best or (as many of us have been saying) have different servers for PvE where the above holds true and PvP where anything goes.

     

    Part of it has to do with them making statements that can be interpreted multiple ways.  As someone already said they are the collective kings of ambiguity.  I just thought I was good at making statements that could be interpreted multiple ways, but damn, I'm still a novice compared to these guys.

    A great example is when they responded to a question about open world pvp with (I forget the exact words so I'm paraphrasing) "we don't want to make any bad design decisions."  So, for those that don't want pvp, open world pvp is a freaking terrible design decision.  For those that want ffa full loot pvp, anything less than open world pvp is a terrible design decision.  It was actually very impressive, because everyone could be "right" in their interpretation. 

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    FFA learn to love it
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560

    Originally posted by Bidwood "The idea is that while everything can be destructible, it doesn't mean we're going to let everything be destructible," he said. "We're going to use permission systems and tools to make sure the game is enjoyable for everyone who's playing it. We probably wouldn't let someone come in and destroy the newbie area, that's a more protected area. But maybe NPCs, for instance, can destroy part of that area, because it's part of the content going on in there. "Without a doubt there are lots of griefing opportunities we haven't seen in this kind of game before. There's visual griefing in Landmark, where the idea of creativity is so important. People could actually try to impede other people's ability to see your stuff. We have to think about these things and tackle these things that are unique to our game. We did it to EverQuest and the things people could do there, and we'll do it again in EverQuest Next and make sure players have an enjoyable experience." http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-08-12-everquest-next-a-pc-orientated-launch   So yeah like I said... good design choices to limit griefing, but the game they're making has a lot more griefing opportunities. (Open-world PVP, naturally.) With some protected areas like newbie zones.
    This is where i say i told you so :

    Originally posted by jesteralways 

    will players be able to destroy the capital/hometown of a certain race and build their own castle on it and claim themselves as "king of trolls" or "conqueror of elves"? i guess not. you will still have to find a breakable  terrain in certain places of world to break and explore further. this kind of things have been done by many other games before but in "instances", SOE will just remove the "instanced barrier".

     

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  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,139
    Originally posted by bcbully
    FFA learn to love it

    Already do, unfortunately the vast majority do not and it won't be the foundation of EQN.

    /crossfingers for FFA server (will be fun for the short time it lasts)

  • bubbabillbubbabill Member Posts: 80
    Originally posted by Bidwood

    "The idea is that while everything can be destructible, it doesn't mean we're going to let everything be destructible," he said.

    "We're going to use permission systems and tools to make sure the game is enjoyable for everyone who's playing it. We probably wouldn't let someone come in and destroy the newbie area, that's a more protected area. But maybe NPCs, for instance, can destroy part of that area, because it's part of the content going on in there.

    "Without a doubt there are lots of griefing opportunities we haven't seen in this kind of game before. There's visual griefing in Landmark, where the idea of creativity is so important. People could actually try to impede other people's ability to see your stuff. We have to think about these things and tackle these things that are unique to our game. We did it to EverQuest and the things people could do there, and we'll do it again in EverQuest Next and make sure players have an enjoyable experience."

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-08-12-everquest-next-a-pc-orientated-launch

     

    So yeah like I said... good design choices to limit griefing, but the game they're making has a lot more griefing opportunities. (Open-world PVP, naturally.) With some protected areas like newbie zones.

    sure you will have your ow pvp on the pvp server.  enjoy it

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,941
    Originally posted by Bidwood

    It implies destroying terrain can hurt other players though.

     

    Like if I cause an avalanche above someone it's going to damage them or something.

     

    So if that's turned off in newbie areas, what about everywhere else? What if you're fighting a dragon and I bring a bunch of rock down on top of you? Those are the areas where I see PVP on because the way the game works means inevitable conflicts that need to be duked out.

    You are very selective in your reading.

    "We're going to use permission systems and tools to make sure the game is enjoyable for everyone who's playing it.

     

    So, if someone isn't into open pvp then ffa pvp isn't really going to happen. I still think there are going to be areas like EVE but "more strict" in what players can do.

    I don't think it's "newb areas = no pvp and pvp everywhere else".

     

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  • KarteliKarteli Member CommonPosts: 2,646
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Bidwood

    It implies destroying terrain can hurt other players though.

     

    Like if I cause an avalanche above someone it's going to damage them or something.

     

    So if that's turned off in newbie areas, what about everywhere else? What if you're fighting a dragon and I bring a bunch of rock down on top of you? Those are the areas where I see PVP on because the way the game works means inevitable conflicts that need to be duked out.

    You are very selective in your reading.

    "We're going to use permission systems and tools to make sure the game is enjoyable for everyone who's playing it.

     

    So, if someone isn't into open pvp then ffa pvp isn't really going to happen. I still think there are going to be areas like EVE but "more strict" in what players can do.

    I don't think it's "newb areas = no pvp and pvp everywhere else".

    Oof good point .. that is very lame if SOE doesn't separate play-styles and just makes it a /pvp on .. /pvp off bullshit model.

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  • AntariousAntarious Member UncommonPosts: 2,846

    I'm to the point that I don't know if people are trolling to just try and get a flaming pile of hostile replies.. or just so desperate to be able to force pvp on someone in a PvE based franchise... that they see what they want to see.

     

     

    The text is pretty clear and its related to some other quotes.   They have stated before some areas will not be able to be destroyed and that is all they are talking about.

     

    They then clearly say you won't be able to block off someone from seeing things people built and various other non pvp related greifing.

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