Originally posted by nuttob Well the CREDD will probably mean you have to be really dedicated to the game to play for free. I was hoping for a BTP model like GW2. I will probably take a wait and see approach to this game...
Me to.
Problem is that when the game launches P2P and players start to leave because of natural subscription drop , there is not much for company to do but go F2P , and lose credibility.
Instead going B2P , and having steady revenue like GW2
The strategy is clear, they launch as a P2P game, they gather all the money they can from the subscribers, then when the numbers are not profitable they go free to play with cash shop and the numbers go up again, of course all that has been planned in advance because its the most efficient way to pump money out, also its the dirtiest one.
The quick money grab does seem to be a current strategy alright.....The problem is it can devastate your game if it doesn't work....Just look at The Secret World: Started with high box price, monthly sub, and a cash shop to boot...Everyone in beta knew it was a mediocre game and that they were trying to get as much for it as possible right away.......As a result alot of people turned their backs on it....Going with a cheaper b2p format later helped it recover some, but the damage was already done and Funcom lost alot of money on this title......
Like others have said in this thread, who is Wildstar?....We dont know who they are or anything.......IT would be like a band named LFKDIR$JHF asking for 200 bucks for a concert ticket....Just because this game looks like WoW doesn't mean it is..... WoW got away with this pricing model because it had alot of history and very little competition.....Also paying this way was acceptable at that time.....By doing this they have probably limited their chance for success with this game to about 2%.
The strategy is clear, they launch as a P2P game, they gather all the money they can from the subscribers, then when the numbers are not profitable they go free to play with cash shop and the numbers go up again, of course all that has been planned in advance because its the most efficient way to pump money out, also its the dirtiest one.
The strategy is clear, they launch as a P2P game, they gather all the money they can from the subscribers, then when the numbers are not profitable they go free to play with cash shop and the numbers go up again, of course all that has been planned in advance because its the most efficient way to pump money out, also its the dirtiest one.
that wont happen with wildstar.
Oh contraire.
In this interview they said that the most lucrative thing for someone like them would be to release as a Box + P2P and then transition into F2P when it is most profitable to do such. It does not mean anything definitive, but it does in fact give evidence for one theory over the just plain faith one has in saying "they will never do it". It's an unfortunate reality that nearly every time a P2P game comes out people say it will never happen, and it usually does. The fact that they aren't their own publishers is also a bit hint if history is to be our teacher in this.
There were like five MMORPG interviews with them, so if this video doesn't have that quote I'll go through the others and look for it.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
The strategy is clear, they launch as a P2P game, they gather all the money they can from the subscribers, then when the numbers are not profitable they go free to play with cash shop and the numbers go up again, of course all that has been planned in advance because its the most efficient way to pump money out, also its the dirtiest one.
that wont happen with wildstar.
Oh contraire.
In this interview they said that the most lucrative thing for someone like them would be to release as a Box + P2P and then transition into F2P when it is most profitable to do such.
There were like five MMORPG interviews with them, so if this video doesn't have that quote I'll go through the others and look for it.
Logicly if the mmo is bleeding subs they would transition to f2p.
That's what all mediocre mmos have done in the past.
Lets hope they have an out when NC Soft shuts them down. I think any of these studios should have a clause that allows them to protect their IP so a publisher can't sit on it like they did to CoH.
Originally posted by DashiDMV Lets hope they have an out when NC Soft shuts them down. I think any of these studios should have a clause that allows them to protect their IP so a publisher can't sit on it like they did to CoH.
Shut them down? Ha
Wildstar will be NC soft biggest and profitable game to date.
The strategy is clear, they launch as a P2P game, they gather all the money they can from the subscribers, then when the numbers are not profitable they go free to play with cash shop and the numbers go up again, of course all that has been planned in advance because its the most efficient way to pump money out, also its the dirtiest one.
that wont happen with wildstar.
Oh contraire.
In this interview they said that the most lucrative thing for someone like them would be to release as a Box + P2P and then transition into F2P when it is most profitable to do such.
There were like five MMORPG interviews with them, so if this video doesn't have that quote I'll go through the others and look for it.
Logicly if the mmo is bleeding subs they would transition to f2p.
That's what all mediocre mmos have done in the past.
Just an update on the video I linked above:
It's at 28:15 when he talks about it, and actually makes a good argument as both a business and player as to why it would be a good thing if a company does this.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Originally posted by DashiDMV Lets hope they have an out when NC Soft shuts them down. I think any of these studios should have a clause that allows them to protect their IP so a publisher can't sit on it like they did to CoH.
Shut them down? Ha
Wildstar will be NC soft biggest and profitable game to date.
I much prefer a game with a sub for said above comment that f2p with cash sop cost way more. I could dump 40$ or more into ragnarok online and could still put more into it to get more. Also said above how is 14.99 exspensive or not worth it so long you play it once or twice a week for a few hours here and there. You will get your moneys worth i betcha. You dont need millions of subscribers to be succesful, not to say it wouldnt hurt. I mean look at wow for peat sake millons of ppl pay 14.99 and they dont even have the eve style payment model built in that allows harddcpre players to basically play for free.
Far as I'm concerned I'm done paying a full box price for new MMO's. For the most party, they've all been terrible disappointments at launch. And frankly I'm sick of paying $60 to play a broken game that'll drop to $20 (or less) in less than six months. Game companies need to get their collective shit together. When EverQuest was being beta tested they tested the crap outta that game! There was no idle "Open Beta" weekends. You got to test THE game. And look at its longevity.
P2P themepark in this day and age ... why do they never learn ?
I will be checking the game when it goes F2P , which it will - based on unfortunate choice of pricing model.
Pretty much this, but I'll prob avoid the game thanks to mediocre pvp options. The day of monthly sub fees are pretty much done. I wouldn't be surprised if they have the f2p model built and ready to install before the game releases for when the downfall starts.
same... so disappointed with this games direction. big let down imo.
Originally posted by GamerToons Well I can already see it now. A year after release it will be going f2p but by then the lackluster launch and turnoffs involved in sub model will have already hurt the game.
Really bad idea from an MMO filled with great ideas. Too bad this idea will doom the game before launch.
I'm being mmo economic realist here not just another doom sayer as I really wanted this game to succeed
I feel this is a sensible notion with Wildstar being a no name IP, Final Fantasy and maybe TESO can get away with a sub fee for a while but Wildstar? the mainstream market has moved on from box price and sub. So I agree with all the competition in the market they'll struggle to retain players unless they have a magical content maker churning out the top quality updates but really this is a strangely anachronistic move to me.
I agree that TESO -may- get away with this (but I doubt anyone can anymore, I expect they'll end up going ftp after a year or 2 also), I don't agree that Final Fantasy can. It's just not a good enough game...
With the Elder Scrolls being such a big name in RPG's the start as sub and go f2p has got to be alluring for Zenimax as they know TESO will fly off the shelves at launch. With Wildstar I think they are missing out on getting as many bodies as they can into the game at launch. The p2p barrier is to much for some and why shell out $60/£40 when you know it'll be f2p eventually? that's what I think many MMO players will ask themselves first before they think about buying.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
As I said in the other post, this is a big let down for me. I understand the desire of not wanting to be a F2P title. I'm 100% for paying for games, but I'm not going to pay for access to something I already paid for. Time and time again developers have proven that subscriptions are now a way to plunder as much money possible from impulse buys and people with enough liquid cash to not notice. When developers can't keep up with content obligations they turn around and go F2P and cash grab until the game dies out completely.
I will not pay subscription fees ever again for MMORPGs until developers can be held accountable for quality updates every single month (or whatever pay cycle). I'm comfortable with money exchanges for product. If publishers and developers need to cover the overhead of doing business they better manufacture and sell a product just like everybody else.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
In the amount of time it took for those haters to read this they could have filled out at least 2 job applications. Then all you have to do is work 3 hours a month , at minimum wage minus taxes , and BAM you dont have to hate on the game any more cause you can now afford it! The average month has 720 hours in it and all you have to do is work 3 of those 720 !! I know to some that 3 hours is like a marathon. That whole getting out of the house and doing something on your own but I promise you guys that you can do it.
A monthly fee keeps the kid level lower and the amount of people that dont understand life lower. If the game sucks then I unsub and move along. Thats all you have to do.
I find this website funny sometimes. One forum post I read about how bad f2p is, now I am reading about how bad p2p is. I swear, me thinks no one knows what they want!
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
In the amount of time it took for those haters to read this they could have filled out at least 2 job applications. Then all you have to do is work 3 hours a month , at minimum wage minus taxes , and BAM you dont have to hate on the game any more cause you can now afford it! The average month has 720 hours in it and all you have to do is work 3 of those 720 !! I know to some that 3 hours is like a marathon. That whole getting out of the house and doing something on your own but I promise you guys that you can do it.
A monthly fee keeps the kid level lower and the amount of people that dont understand life lower. If the game sucks then I unsub and move along. Thats all you have to do.
I'm sure in your neck of the woods you're societies elite for being able to afford paying monthly subscriptions to PC games but those of us with car notes, cable bills, cell phone bills and mortgages/rent understand this isn't about affordability. Also those of us who finished high school are able to observe why games that were subscription based swap to B2P models or F2P models.
I've had subscriptions to 3 games recently, and each time things slowed down after launch to where having the subscription wasn't justified. I (and apparently others) canceled their subscriptions and spent their dollars elsewhere. Those games are all F2P now.
Wildstar hasn't shown me anything yet to make me feel like the game is capable of maintaining monthly updates nor can they be held accountable if they start and suddenly stop.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
There are a LOT of games out there to play and While Wildstar did manage to grab my attention, I have long passed my acceptance of monthly subscription fees. And I would say from these many posts and the track record of nearly every subscription based game that has started in the last couple years...pretty much everyone else has as well. If you want to charge $60 for a game and then $15 a month you are simply making a cash grab because there is no game worth it anymore. None. Like many, I'll see you at F2P, Wildstar, but not before.
The developers don't care because based on the hype and the densely ignorant humanoids who are straight out of Idiocracy they'll make an absorbent amount of cash for 8-10 months w/ no accountability for bugs or lack of updates.
When the "duh I'm rich u poorz get a job so u can be like me hue hue hue" people realize there is nobody really left in game but them, they'll unsubscribe too. By then some other new game will come out to start the cycle again. THAT'S when Wildstar switches to B2P w/ no subscription.
In essence everybody who is willing to pay AND subscribe to Wildstar is basically bug testing and reviewing the full experience for those who know where this will all lead to. I think I'm okay with that. I'll wait.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
I find this website funny sometimes. One forum post I read about how bad f2p is, now I am reading about how bad p2p is. I swear, me thinks no one knows what they want!
Cheers!
It's not about p2p. It's about p2p with an integrated cash shop (CX).
The strategy is clear, they launch as a P2P game, they gather all the money they can from the subscribers, then when the numbers are not profitable they go free to play with cash shop and the numbers go up again, of course all that has been planned in advance because its the most efficient way to pump money out, also its the dirtiest one.
This is generally a tactic used by developers who know their game if terrible, e.g., SWTOR, STO.
In the amount of time it took for those haters to read this they could have filled out at least 2 job applications. Then all you have to do is work 3 hours a month , at minimum wage minus taxes , and BAM you dont have to hate on the game any more cause you can now afford it! The average month has 720 hours in it and all you have to do is work 3 of those 720 !! I know to some that 3 hours is like a marathon. That whole getting out of the house and doing something on your own but I promise you guys that you can do it.
A monthly fee keeps the kid level lower and the amount of people that dont understand life lower. If the game sucks then I unsub and move along. Thats all you have to do.
I'm sure in your neck of the woods you're societies elite for being able to afford paying monthly subscriptions to PC games but those of us with car notes, cable bills, cell phone bills and mortgages/rent understand this isn't about affordability. Also those of us who finished high school are able to observe why games that were subscription based swap to B2P models or F2P models.
I've had subscriptions to 3 games recently, and each time things slowed down after launch to where having the subscription wasn't justified. I (and apparently others) canceled their subscriptions and spent their dollars elsewhere. Those games are all F2P now.
Wildstar hasn't shown me anything yet to make me feel like the game is capable of maintaining monthly updates nor can they be held accountable if they start and suddenly stop.
Oh dood I pay all that and them some. And mad props to you for being one of the rare folks on this site that does pay for all that stuff!! You also did reinforce my thought on this. If it sucks, you just cancel. But making everything free to play just because billy bob cant afford to pay and chalking it up as " This is the way the world is going " is just wrong. Free to play is an open door to allow every person in the world to join in .
[mod edit] I couldn't be happier with the model. I was worried about having to spend too much money to achieve elite status in this game. Now its completely affordable.
Comments
GW2 has a steady revenue stream?
for real? O_o
The quick money grab does seem to be a current strategy alright.....The problem is it can devastate your game if it doesn't work....Just look at The Secret World: Started with high box price, monthly sub, and a cash shop to boot...Everyone in beta knew it was a mediocre game and that they were trying to get as much for it as possible right away.......As a result alot of people turned their backs on it....Going with a cheaper b2p format later helped it recover some, but the damage was already done and Funcom lost alot of money on this title......
Like others have said in this thread, who is Wildstar?....We dont know who they are or anything.......IT would be like a band named LFKDIR$JHF asking for 200 bucks for a concert ticket....Just because this game looks like WoW doesn't mean it is..... WoW got away with this pricing model because it had alot of history and very little competition.....Also paying this way was acceptable at that time.....By doing this they have probably limited their chance for success with this game to about 2%.
that wont happen with wildstar.
Oh contraire.
In this interview they said that the most lucrative thing for someone like them would be to release as a Box + P2P and then transition into F2P when it is most profitable to do such. It does not mean anything definitive, but it does in fact give evidence for one theory over the just plain faith one has in saying "they will never do it". It's an unfortunate reality that nearly every time a P2P game comes out people say it will never happen, and it usually does. The fact that they aren't their own publishers is also a bit hint if history is to be our teacher in this.
There were like five MMORPG interviews with them, so if this video doesn't have that quote I'll go through the others and look for it.
Logicly if the mmo is bleeding subs they would transition to f2p.
That's what all mediocre mmos have done in the past.
Shut them down? Ha
Wildstar will be NC soft biggest and profitable game to date.
Just an update on the video I linked above:
It's at 28:15 when he talks about it, and actually makes a good argument as both a business and player as to why it would be a good thing if a company does this.
Or flop spectacularly.
same... so disappointed with this games direction. big let down imo.
With the Elder Scrolls being such a big name in RPG's the start as sub and go f2p has got to be alluring for Zenimax as they know TESO will fly off the shelves at launch. With Wildstar I think they are missing out on getting as many bodies as they can into the game at launch. The p2p barrier is to much for some and why shell out $60/£40 when you know it'll be f2p eventually? that's what I think many MMO players will ask themselves first before they think about buying.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
As I said in the other post, this is a big let down for me. I understand the desire of not wanting to be a F2P title. I'm 100% for paying for games, but I'm not going to pay for access to something I already paid for. Time and time again developers have proven that subscriptions are now a way to plunder as much money possible from impulse buys and people with enough liquid cash to not notice. When developers can't keep up with content obligations they turn around and go F2P and cash grab until the game dies out completely.
I will not pay subscription fees ever again for MMORPGs until developers can be held accountable for quality updates every single month (or whatever pay cycle). I'm comfortable with money exchanges for product. If publishers and developers need to cover the overhead of doing business they better manufacture and sell a product just like everybody else.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In the amount of time it took for those haters to read this they could have filled out at least 2 job applications. Then all you have to do is work 3 hours a month , at minimum wage minus taxes , and BAM you dont have to hate on the game any more cause you can now afford it! The average month has 720 hours in it and all you have to do is work 3 of those 720 !! I know to some that 3 hours is like a marathon. That whole getting out of the house and doing something on your own but I promise you guys that you can do it.
A monthly fee keeps the kid level lower and the amount of people that dont understand life lower. If the game sucks then I unsub and move along. Thats all you have to do.
I find this website funny sometimes. One forum post I read about how bad f2p is, now I am reading about how bad p2p is. I swear, me thinks no one knows what they want!
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
I'm sure in your neck of the woods you're societies elite for being able to afford paying monthly subscriptions to PC games but those of us with car notes, cable bills, cell phone bills and mortgages/rent understand this isn't about affordability. Also those of us who finished high school are able to observe why games that were subscription based swap to B2P models or F2P models.
I've had subscriptions to 3 games recently, and each time things slowed down after launch to where having the subscription wasn't justified. I (and apparently others) canceled their subscriptions and spent their dollars elsewhere. Those games are all F2P now.
Wildstar hasn't shown me anything yet to make me feel like the game is capable of maintaining monthly updates nor can they be held accountable if they start and suddenly stop.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My head smells like buzzing
The developers don't care because based on the hype and the densely ignorant humanoids who are straight out of Idiocracy they'll make an absorbent amount of cash for 8-10 months w/ no accountability for bugs or lack of updates.
When the "duh I'm rich u poorz get a job so u can be like me hue hue hue" people realize there is nobody really left in game but them, they'll unsubscribe too. By then some other new game will come out to start the cycle again. THAT'S when Wildstar switches to B2P w/ no subscription.
In essence everybody who is willing to pay AND subscribe to Wildstar is basically bug testing and reviewing the full experience for those who know where this will all lead to. I think I'm okay with that. I'll wait.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So...
#1. Buy the game ($60).
#2. Either pay $15 per month and use the "CREDD" I find to purchase stuff from the CX store or use CREDD to pay for my month.
This is THE WORST pay model ever. This is a full out old-school month-to-month method with an element of "pay-to-win".
I was a tad interested in playing this game until now. There is no way I'll spend a dime on another fail MMO.
FAILSTAR.
It's not about p2p. It's about p2p with an integrated cash shop (CX).
This is generally a tactic used by developers who know their game if terrible, e.g., SWTOR, STO.
Oh dood I pay all that and them some. And mad props to you for being one of the rare folks on this site that does pay for all that stuff!! You also did reinforce my thought on this. If it sucks, you just cancel. But making everything free to play just because billy bob cant afford to pay and chalking it up as " This is the way the world is going " is just wrong. Free to play is an open door to allow every person in the world to join in .