Originally posted by Mr.Kujo It's funny that games were originaly made for kids, but it turned out that those kids after growing up kept playing games xD It was pretty unexpected and the industry had to adjust to that. I still have the feeling that adults are the guests in ths world, not kids. But they want to take over and take all the fun away from kids, by taking everything that doesn't look serious out of those games. But it is just my opinion.
Well said. Another poster pointed out it's the 9-5 3 kids and dog people that want the games dumbed down because they have no time for it. Does this mean it's the grown ups that are causing the games to become easier? Oh the irony.
Originally posted by donpopuki I hate to be the bearer of bad news but video games are for the most part are for kids. Sure you got old farts like myself (36) and my father in law (62) that play but we notice that most of the other players are in the 15-25 range.
Hate to break this to you but I have found that there are far more gamers outside that "15-25 range". I constantly run into many many gamers that are closer to your father-in-law in age. Have meant some as "young" as 75. In fact, there was a study done some time ago that showed most gamers are over the age of 27. This is not surprising considering that video games in general have been around for far longer then "15-25" years (first video game console was the Magnavox Galaxy in 1972).
In discussions I've mostly always seen the term "kid" or "child" being applied to a particular type of behavior as opposed to being tied to an age. Just exactly the same as being "mature" has nothing to do with your age. Some people will never be mature during the course of their life...
So while the article makes points... it seems to miss out on just as many from my perspective.
In fact the title of the column is more directly to the point if you reword it a bit... because "the kids" that are being blamed are simply immature people. /shrugs
Blaming the "kids" is only a tiny part of the problem. This has nothing to do with easy mode or cartoony graphics. It is the anti-social nature of the WoW kiddies that is the real problem. If you want to blame someone then blame the parents for the bad behavior seen in WoW. Just like the disruptive kids in school it wasn't the child's fault. It was always the parents. Just ask any teacher. As far as the internet communities goes 12 year olds should NOT have unlimited access or a subscription to WoW. Guess who pays for that internet and WoW sub. It is not the kid, it is the parents who pay the bills yet the parents shirk all responsibility when it comes to supervising that child. First it was TV as babysitter now it is the computer and MMOs games. MMOs were not designed to babysit and raise a bunch of brats. That is the parents job and ultimately the parents fault when their kids turn into antisocial jerks.
As time passed fast forward from 2004 to 2013 those 12 year old WoW kiddies are now 20 something adults who: never grew up, never learned responsibility, never learned respect, never learned to properly interact with others in a civilized manner. It was never the game's job to teach people these values. This is really nothing anyone can do about this as this is just a reflection in the overall decay of society.
Social engineering is not in a game developers' job description. We are here to make games that are fun and enjoyable to our target audience.
Kids really should be doing other things besides playing MMO's. Anyone that has played MMO's for years can see that the risks far outweigh the rewards, especially when it comes to underdeveloped minds.
The graphics, specifically character models are just like Disney's. It's a fact, just compare them side by side. Cartoony is another apt description. Just because some use it angrily does not make it any more wrong. If they don't like it, they don't like it. It's neither mature or immature, it's how they express themselves that makes them mature or immature.
As to WOW and the kiddies, well when it was released it was the kiddies. My best friends kids were the perfect examples. One 9 the other 12, WOW was the ONLY MMO they could play because it laid everything out for them in a simplified method. They and their friends would get together and run amok going back into lower zones and ganking people and reveling in it. I pointed that out to their dad and they weren't allowed to play for a month. But then they were right back at it. So, please don't try to blow smoke up my arse. I've witnessed it firsthand.
Self-aggrandizement is the word. People really need to stop doing that by insulting others and the preference of others. Learn to accept that your choice is not always the best one, but it is just that, your choice. THat also applies to subscription fanatics.
but, it's their entire generation that we despise. The "entitlement generation." I work and help hire for our 46 member IT firm and we all agree we will never, ever hire anyone younger then 30. It just won't happen.
of course it's easy to lump them all together but the statistics are out there. Who as a majority is pushing for F2P in games? Yea I thought so. Who whines in message boards to make games easier? Thought so too. Who complains no mmo is social enough?
That entitlement generation...and they have the nerve to wonder why no one is hiring them...laughable.
I thought most of the accessibility and changes to WoW over time were more targeted at working adults as opposed to kids who have essentially nothing but free time.
Kind of weird considering I was in highschool with UO and just fresh out with EQ. I didn't play WoW until I was in my early 20's. And in my almost 9 years of playing WoW I only met one person under 18 (he was 16) and he happened to be a decent kid so we let him in our guild.
"Easy mode" is still not something I consider WoW, but at least there's a legitimate argument that can be made for calling it such. But "for kiddies"? Unless you have hard statistics backing that claim, I flat out refuse to believe it. The average age of gamers has climbed in line with my generation, to suggest that everyone in my age group just up and stops playing a game because they got older is an odd stance to take.
Again, WoW is a big target and people like to diminish others for playing it, but more often than not, you're calling someone a WoW kiddie who played the more old school MMO's when they actually were a kid . . .
So UO, EQ, DAOC, SWG are actually the kiddie games because we were kids when we played them. Whereas those of us playing MMO's from a young age ended up playing WoW and subsequent "kiddie" games when we were adults.
I thought most of the accessibility and changes to WoW over time were more targeted at working adults as opposed to kids who have essentially nothing but free time.
Kind of weird considering I was in highschool with UO and just fresh out with EQ. I didn't play WoW until I was in my early 20's. And in my almost 9 years of playing WoW I only met one person under 18 (he was 16) and he happened to be a decent kid so we let him in our guild.
"Easy mode" is still not something I consider WoW, but at least there's a legitimate argument that can be made for calling it such. But "for kiddies"? Unless you have hard statistics backing that claim, I flat out refuse to believe it. The average age of gamers has climbed in line with my generation, to suggest that everyone in my age group just up and stops playing a game because they got older is an odd stance to take.
Again, WoW is a big target and people like to diminish others for playing it, but more often than not, you're calling someone a WoW kiddie who played the more old school MMO's when they actually were a kid . . .
So UO, EQ, DAOC, SWG are actually the kiddie games because we were kids when we played them. Whereas those of us playing MMO's from a young age ended up playing WoW and subsequent "kiddie" games when we were adults.
This exactly. WoW's player base has grown up, and generally has less free time than they had at a younger age. If you were 17 when WoW came out and were in your senior year of high school, you'd be 26 now and potentially finishing your Master's, starting a family, beginning a career, getting a mortgage, etc., etc.. The game has changed partly because the player base grew up, not because it got any younger.
Blaming the "kids" is only a tiny part of the problem. This has nothing to do with easy mode or cartoony graphics. It is the anti-social nature of the WoW kiddies that is the real problem. If you want to blame someone then blame the parents for the bad behavior seen in WoW. Just like the disruptive kids in school it wasn't the child's fault. It was always the parents. Just ask any teacher. As far as the internet communities goes 12 year olds should NOT have unlimited access or a subscription to WoW. Guess who pays for that internet and WoW sub. It is not the kid, it is the parents who pay the bills yet the parents shirk all responsibility when it comes to supervising that child. First it was TV as babysitter now it is the computer and MMOs games. MMOs were not designed to babysit and raise a bunch of brats. That is the parents job and ultimately the parents fault when their kids turn into antisocial jerks.
As time passed fast forward from 2004 to 2013 those 12 year old WoW kiddies are now 20 something adults who: never grew up, never learned responsibility, never learned respect, never learned to properly interact with others in a civilized manner. It was never the game's job to teach people these values. This is really nothing anyone can do about this as this is just a reflection in the overall decay of society.
Social engineering is not in a game developers' job description. We are here to make games that are fun and enjoyable to our target audience.
I see he is generalizing my generation?? I am 21 now i did play WoW just like he may have played a game at a young age or did he forget or start when he was 30 so games are for the older now? this comment is just very shallow. I am attending college, I have networks of friends, and if i didn't say yes ma'am i was slapped. He is the one that didnt learn manners. Sorry your time in WoW was horrid it was one of the best for me.
There are a few things that someone writes that renders their post useless:
Using the phrase WoW kiddies is one.
Saying MoP was designed for kids/China is another
Saying EQN looks like WoW
EQN is being dumbed down for consoles
And of course, EQN's graphics are made for kids.
These all show either a lack of maturity, or a lack of reasonable, rational thinking. Often both.
Also, the people that get called 'kiddies' in WoW-the ones that make chuck norris jokes and spam anal abilities...they are much older than some think they are. I would bet the modal age of a trade chat spammer is somewhere in the mid to upper 20s.
Blaming the "kids" is only a tiny part of the problem. This has nothing to do with easy mode or cartoony graphics. It is the anti-social nature of the WoW kiddies that is the real problem. If you want to blame someone then blame the parents for the bad behavior seen in WoW. Just like the disruptive kids in school it wasn't the child's fault. It was always the parents. Just ask any teacher. As far as the internet communities goes 12 year olds should NOT have unlimited access or a subscription to WoW. Guess who pays for that internet and WoW sub. It is not the kid, it is the parents who pay the bills yet the parents shirk all responsibility when it comes to supervising that child. First it was TV as babysitter now it is the computer and MMOs games. MMOs were not designed to babysit and raise a bunch of brats. That is the parents job and ultimately the parents fault when their kids turn into antisocial jerks.
As time passed fast forward from 2004 to 2013 those 12 year old WoW kiddies are now 20 something adults who: never grew up, never learned responsibility, never learned respect, never learned to properly interact with others in a civilized manner. It was never the game's job to teach people these values. This is really nothing anyone can do about this as this is just a reflection in the overall decay of society.
Social engineering is not in a game developers' job description. We are here to make games that are fun and enjoyable to our target audience.
You can't be serious. Did you really just (at least partially) blame the current state of the gaming community on poor parenting? And to top it off, you want to place an age limit on the Internet? You just insulted an entire demographic and blamed their parents for their shortcomings based on anonymous interactions you perceived to be a certain age backed up by psyco jibberish.
I had a C-64 when I was a kid, the games I played were harder than anything you can find today, and I found a site that had converted them to Java that made me realize how much worse I play today.
It is not the kids fault, it is the fact that most people who plays games todays are regular people instead of gamers with special interests. Blaming Wow is not a good idea either, the difficulty started to drop somewhere between Diablo 1 and 2. It have dropped ever since.
And when the difficulty drop eventually most people will play worse continuing the death spiral.
There is a light in the dark though, it seems like most average people are moving towards mobile games so maybe the PC will become a place for dedicated gamers again somewhere in the future.
But the downwards spiral started around the year 2000 so blaming todays kids is just silly.
Id love to point out in the games i have played kids are usually better acting and behaved them the so called adults. At least kids help out and group up and want to have fun. I have run into adults who just want to rage talk. Call people names that i don't want any kid of mine seeing or saying and call people noobs just for fun. So blaming kids for anything when its adults actling like children who ruin communities. I know when my nephews play i keep a close eye on them even though they are teenagers now and make sure they are polite and nice . I have played wow and tor with kids and they have been pretty damn good at the games. They have also been helpful and nice while adults have acted liek 2 yr olds having temper tantrums. Stylized graphics get used because companies like soe want there games to last 10-15 yrs and realistic graphics require constant upgrading that can be better spent improving the game. Also alot of what people say make games easier is more convinence things like a looking for dungeon tool, or things that tell u where to go for quests. The actual combat in raids and stuff has evolved. yes alot of games still use tank and spank but they add new things to the raids, even in wow which has lfr and other features aimed at casuals they have heroic raids aimed at there hardcore guilds that take the guilds who are top clearers a month or more to clear all the bosses. So its not games are getting easier as much as elitists complaing cause companies make it so more then 5 pct of population can see the end game.
Well, I say it all the time myself how 'immature' people are labeling things as 'for kids' so I can't help but agree. So many 'adult' things are really so much more immature, relying on mindless violence or using 'sex' to promote things. Its... very immature really. There is a place for it, but when you label things since it DOESNT have such things, yeah... I feel you are just that 'kid' you are claiming that the game or movie is for. Irony in a way.
I used to know 2 13 year old friends who played anarchy online and when i asked from them why they dont play WoW for example ,their answer was "because it is for kids"
Few months ago i asked from my friends 10 year old daughter why is she playing WoW and why she's not playing GW2 for example and she said "because it is for girls"
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
Comments
Well said. Another poster pointed out it's the 9-5 3 kids and dog people that want the games dumbed down because they have no time for it. Does this mean it's the grown ups that are causing the games to become easier? Oh the irony.
Hate to break this to you but I have found that there are far more gamers outside that "15-25 range". I constantly run into many many gamers that are closer to your father-in-law in age. Have meant some as "young" as 75. In fact, there was a study done some time ago that showed most gamers are over the age of 27. This is not surprising considering that video games in general have been around for far longer then "15-25" years (first video game console was the Magnavox Galaxy in 1972).
Let's party like it is 1863!
Well...
In discussions I've mostly always seen the term "kid" or "child" being applied to a particular type of behavior as opposed to being tied to an age. Just exactly the same as being "mature" has nothing to do with your age. Some people will never be mature during the course of their life...
So while the article makes points... it seems to miss out on just as many from my perspective.
In fact the title of the column is more directly to the point if you reword it a bit... because "the kids" that are being blamed are simply immature people. /shrugs
Blaming the "kids" is only a tiny part of the problem. This has nothing to do with easy mode or cartoony graphics. It is the anti-social nature of the WoW kiddies that is the real problem. If you want to blame someone then blame the parents for the bad behavior seen in WoW. Just like the disruptive kids in school it wasn't the child's fault. It was always the parents. Just ask any teacher. As far as the internet communities goes 12 year olds should NOT have unlimited access or a subscription to WoW. Guess who pays for that internet and WoW sub. It is not the kid, it is the parents who pay the bills yet the parents shirk all responsibility when it comes to supervising that child. First it was TV as babysitter now it is the computer and MMOs games. MMOs were not designed to babysit and raise a bunch of brats. That is the parents job and ultimately the parents fault when their kids turn into antisocial jerks.
As time passed fast forward from 2004 to 2013 those 12 year old WoW kiddies are now 20 something adults who: never grew up, never learned responsibility, never learned respect, never learned to properly interact with others in a civilized manner. It was never the game's job to teach people these values. This is really nothing anyone can do about this as this is just a reflection in the overall decay of society.
Social engineering is not in a game developers' job description. We are here to make games that are fun and enjoyable to our target audience.
Kids really should be doing other things besides playing MMO's. Anyone that has played MMO's for years can see that the risks far outweigh the rewards, especially when it comes to underdeveloped minds.
Really. So now it's bad to express your views?
The graphics, specifically character models are just like Disney's. It's a fact, just compare them side by side. Cartoony is another apt description. Just because some use it angrily does not make it any more wrong. If they don't like it, they don't like it. It's neither mature or immature, it's how they express themselves that makes them mature or immature.
As to WOW and the kiddies, well when it was released it was the kiddies. My best friends kids were the perfect examples. One 9 the other 12, WOW was the ONLY MMO they could play because it laid everything out for them in a simplified method. They and their friends would get together and run amok going back into lower zones and ganking people and reveling in it. I pointed that out to their dad and they weren't allowed to play for a month. But then they were right back at it. So, please don't try to blow smoke up my arse. I've witnessed it firsthand.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
The aim of the article: Shame us into examining the inequality rampant in the system. The young are being oppressed.
Where else but on the internet can a 14 year old girl hang out with adult men who engage in blatant misogyny and racism while killing fake dragons?
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
What really needs to stop is the kid-glove handling of certain kinds of direct insults (the mod-acceptable ones) are somehow 'ok'.
100% agree with this article.
Self-aggrandizement is the word. People really need to stop doing that by insulting others and the preference of others. Learn to accept that your choice is not always the best one, but it is just that, your choice. THat also applies to subscription fanatics.
but, it's their entire generation that we despise. The "entitlement generation." I work and help hire for our 46 member IT firm and we all agree we will never, ever hire anyone younger then 30. It just won't happen.
of course it's easy to lump them all together but the statistics are out there. Who as a majority is pushing for F2P in games? Yea I thought so. Who whines in message boards to make games easier? Thought so too. Who complains no mmo is social enough?
That entitlement generation...and they have the nerve to wonder why no one is hiring them...laughable.
Discuss. Reason. Society.
Become a Dragon. Take your world back.
I thought most of the accessibility and changes to WoW over time were more targeted at working adults as opposed to kids who have essentially nothing but free time.
Kind of weird considering I was in highschool with UO and just fresh out with EQ. I didn't play WoW until I was in my early 20's. And in my almost 9 years of playing WoW I only met one person under 18 (he was 16) and he happened to be a decent kid so we let him in our guild.
"Easy mode" is still not something I consider WoW, but at least there's a legitimate argument that can be made for calling it such. But "for kiddies"? Unless you have hard statistics backing that claim, I flat out refuse to believe it. The average age of gamers has climbed in line with my generation, to suggest that everyone in my age group just up and stops playing a game because they got older is an odd stance to take.
Again, WoW is a big target and people like to diminish others for playing it, but more often than not, you're calling someone a WoW kiddie who played the more old school MMO's when they actually were a kid . . .
So UO, EQ, DAOC, SWG are actually the kiddie games because we were kids when we played them. Whereas those of us playing MMO's from a young age ended up playing WoW and subsequent "kiddie" games when we were adults.
This exactly. WoW's player base has grown up, and generally has less free time than they had at a younger age. If you were 17 when WoW came out and were in your senior year of high school, you'd be 26 now and potentially finishing your Master's, starting a family, beginning a career, getting a mortgage, etc., etc.. The game has changed partly because the player base grew up, not because it got any younger.
Link?
I see he is generalizing my generation?? I am 21 now i did play WoW just like he may have played a game at a young age or did he forget or start when he was 30 so games are for the older now? this comment is just very shallow. I am attending college, I have networks of friends, and if i didn't say yes ma'am i was slapped. He is the one that didnt learn manners. Sorry your time in WoW was horrid it was one of the best for me.
Blaming “The Kids” Is So Immature
Nah Ahhh is not X 1000
There are a few things that someone writes that renders their post useless:
Using the phrase WoW kiddies is one.
Saying MoP was designed for kids/China is another
Saying EQN looks like WoW
EQN is being dumbed down for consoles
And of course, EQN's graphics are made for kids.
These all show either a lack of maturity, or a lack of reasonable, rational thinking. Often both.
Also, the people that get called 'kiddies' in WoW-the ones that make chuck norris jokes and spam anal abilities...they are much older than some think they are. I would bet the modal age of a trade chat spammer is somewhere in the mid to upper 20s.
You can't be serious. Did you really just (at least partially) blame the current state of the gaming community on poor parenting? And to top it off, you want to place an age limit on the Internet? You just insulted an entire demographic and blamed their parents for their shortcomings based on anonymous interactions you perceived to be a certain age backed up by psyco jibberish.
I had a C-64 when I was a kid, the games I played were harder than anything you can find today, and I found a site that had converted them to Java that made me realize how much worse I play today.
It is not the kids fault, it is the fact that most people who plays games todays are regular people instead of gamers with special interests. Blaming Wow is not a good idea either, the difficulty started to drop somewhere between Diablo 1 and 2. It have dropped ever since.
And when the difficulty drop eventually most people will play worse continuing the death spiral.
There is a light in the dark though, it seems like most average people are moving towards mobile games so maybe the PC will become a place for dedicated gamers again somewhere in the future.
But the downwards spiral started around the year 2000 so blaming todays kids is just silly.
Maybe childrens can tell the truth.
I used to know 2 13 year old friends who played anarchy online and when i asked from them why they dont play WoW for example ,their answer was "because it is for kids"
Few months ago i asked from my friends 10 year old daughter why is she playing WoW and why she's not playing GW2 for example and she said "because it is for girls"
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **