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[Column] General: The Return of Subs: FFXIV, WildStar, and ESO

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  • Four0SixFour0Six Member UncommonPosts: 1,175

    I think now we will get to see the 2 business models compete. It can only be good for the consumers.

     

     

  • HricaHrica Member UncommonPosts: 1,129

    take it from a older gamer....sub fee is much better..in this old man's opinion than cash shop/hybrid/sub +cash shop

    I just feel that everyone is on a more "level" playing field, although there Will be 3rd party gold buying...nothing will stop that.

    just my 2 cents

    Have fun playing Ladies & Gents :-)

  • Sajman01Sajman01 Member Posts: 204

    Many of these MMOs only have a shelf life of 2/3 months before the players run out of content and/or the botters/hackers/exploiters take over. These companies are almost forced into trying to maximize revenue in that 3 month window.

     

    Certainly not shocked to see companies going back to box price and sub model, it makes the most financial sense. Do I think Wildstar or FFXIV:ARR will be successful beyond the first quarter? No, I don't but I don't think they do either. 

     

    Enjoy the game while it has a large player base and if it dies 6 months down the road, oh well. 

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818

    A return to sub based games, or devs just figured out they can milk $60 +$15/month for a year and when you switch to free to play your game is back in the "news " and people flood into it again likes it's the greatest thing ever.

    No Ad creates as much buzz about an older game as going free to play does. Publishers aren't blind to this. These games wont stay p2p.

  • TorcipTorcip Member UncommonPosts: 669

    I only expect FFXIV to keep it's sub past 6 months, the other two are trying to cater to way too large of a crowd to do any one thing well enough to hold people.  Square Enix knows who they are going after with FFXIV and are not expecting anyone other than those people to stick with it, I'm also willing to bet the budget for FFXIV is half the size of the one for ESO or Wildstar. FFXIV doesn't expect to pull WoW sized numbers and that's why it will succeed much longer than the other two, who think somehow they are gonna pull those kind of numbers. FFXI is 11 years old now and still going strong as a P2P.

    FFXIV will have a small but dedicated player base that keeps the game running for 10 years or more just like FFXI, and to me that's more fo a success then a game that manages to sell 3 million copies but has 1/3rd of that playing 6 months later.

  • ignore_meignore_me Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,987
    It makes me wonder about the profits gained by the sub model, it must have a substantial benefit over the F2P model if they are willing to attempt to be the Ferrari of MMOs and charge a monthly fee.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • flclimaxflclimax Member UncommonPosts: 92

    This time next year:

     

     [Column] General: The Return of Free To Play: FFXIV, WildStar, and ESO

  • TorcipTorcip Member UncommonPosts: 669
    Originally posted by flclimax

    This time next year:

     

     [Column] General: The Return of Free To Play: FFXIV, WildStar, and ESO

    The others might, but FFXIV won't, they've already said they'd shut it down before that happens. And considering FFXI is still P2P through all this F2P clamoring, I'd be very surprised to see either of the FF MMOs go F2P.

  • SoulStainSoulStain Member Posts: 202
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    A return to sub based games, or devs just figured out they can milk $60 +$15/month for a year and when you switch to free to play your game is back in the "news " and people flood into it again likes it's the greatest thing ever.

    No Ad creates as much buzz about an older game as going free to play does. Publishers aren't blind to this. These games wont stay p2p.

    Not to mention the 4  months alpha, close and open beta that they will charge you full price and a monthly fee for..all the while saying "its not complete" whenever you fall through the earth or get stuck on a pebble. Cash shop throughout as well.

  • mikelafalcemikelafalce Member Posts: 13

    Only the best MMO can demand a sub. WOW has been able to maintain that pay model because it has always been REALLY good. I really think for most folks, if they have to pay a sub, it will only be on 1 game. Who wants to pay $15/mo for Wildstar, $15/mo for FFXIV, $15/mo for ESO. I love playing my GW2, if it gets slow, I can jump over to Rift, or Firefall, or Age of Conan, or World of Tanks, or World of Warplanes. I like having an arcade on my computer so I can play whatever I'm in the mood for. What do I spend? $5  here, $10 there. I want to spend my $ on games that earn it. If I LOVE a game, I will spend on it. A sub based game makes me feel like I must play every free second I get or I'm wasting my money. A sub based game has to be sooooo much better than everything else out there otherwise, I can't justify the sub anymore. 'cough' 'cough' SWTOR and TSW are my examples. As for the concept that a sub based game provides a better community? LOL. WoW has a terrible community. In any MMO you need to play with family and friends, or find  a cool guild. At least that's how I feel. Not trying to tell anyone else what's what.  Also, if you have a non-gamer wife... have fun justifying yet another monthly cost to your household. $130/mo for cable and internet? Rent/mortgage? Food? Gas? Kids expenses? Car payments? Student loans?

    Ok, I'm sure you get my point.

     

     

     

  • VaultarVaultar Member Posts: 339
    I am glad these two games are p2p. As a long time fan of f2p and b2p models, it makes my choice so much easier. EQ Next ftw :)

    Looking forward to EQL and EQN.

  • aliton12aliton12 Member Posts: 18

    Huh? Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn goes to F2P??? HAHAHAHA NOT! It never happen, I am happy to subscription to Square-enix... WHY ? They make game and They get paid for their HARD WORK!

     

    Been with Final Fantasy XI since 2007 of course still Subscription with 4 Characters, And now additional to new Subscription with Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn Legacy player, I been subscription during 1.0, I never disband to them, I know sometime it make mistake but I put faith in them fix the issue.

     

    F2P NEVER HAPPEN! [mod edit][

  • kaz350kaz350 Member UncommonPosts: 130
    Originally posted by Myrdynn
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    I'm happy to see all these games going P2P.  I can't stand F2P.  I played them for about a year, but finally got fed up with all the nickel and diming.  I'm P2P for life!  I liked Rift, but left as soon as it went F2P.   I just don't like the problems tha come with a F2P game.

    so narrowminded, that is the problem with p2p people, which I was for years, until RIFT went free2play.  Their model is flawless, and it doesnt have any problems what so ever with f2p

    2 of these 3 games will be f2p within a yr of launch, FF14 has a loyal base, but it should be f2p as well, but they will keep it p2p.  ESO and Wildstar especially will be hurting for players, 3-6 months after launch.  Wildstar, wouldnt surpise me to see f2p within 6 months, its player base isnt gonna be that good, after the "free" 60$ month.

     

    Ironic you use the world "narrowminded"  Rift's model is NOT flawless....is there anything ...ANYTHING in the Cash Shop, Cash Shop only? Yes including so called "useless" vanity items like dyes, flavor armor etc?

     

    Yes? Then its not flawless....I want the ENTIRE game for one low monthly fee. All the game...ALL the vanity items...everything !

  • lafaiellafaiel Member UncommonPosts: 93
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    It makes me wonder about the profits gained by the sub model, it must have a substantial benefit over the F2P model if they are willing to attempt to be the Ferrari of MMOs and charge a monthly fee.

     

      I don't think its the profit so much as the stability, they can plan accordingly for content updates knowing they have a given budget to work with in advance vs people sporadically spending money in thier store one week and then not again for months.

      I have this feeling that a lot of game developers take some pride in thier work, they want to work on content that will make the player happy or amazed in some way, not some gimmick sold in a cash shop but they want to give the player an actual in game experience that will wow them, if they have a steady income they can do that with less stress, less stressed employees make less hasty or bad decisions for the most part unless they get greedy.  If you ever noticed most bad game decisions come from some executive at the top who does not even play games.

      If you can do something you take pride in and feed your family at the same time, the results are usually a better product/service, but in the world we live in today of corporate controlled everything its not easy to do.

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by lafaiel
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    It makes me wonder about the profits gained by the sub model, it must have a substantial benefit over the F2P model if they are willing to attempt to be the Ferrari of MMOs and charge a monthly fee.

     

      I don't think its the profit so much as the stability, they can plan accordingly for content updates knowing they have a given budget to work with in advance vs people sporadically spending money in thier store one week and then not again for months.

      I have this feeling that a lot of game developers take some pride in thier work, they want to work on content that will make the player happy or amazed in some way, not some gimmick sold in a cash shop but they want to give the player an actual in game experience that will wow them, if they have a steady income they can do that with less stress, less stressed employees make less hasty or bad decisions for the most part unless they get greedy.  If you ever noticed most bad game decisions come from some executive at the top who does not even play games.

      If you can do something you take pride in and feed your family at the same time, the results are usually a better product/service, but in the world we live in today of corporate controlled everything its not easy to do.

    The only 2 Developers offhand that probably fit that category, is imo at least, CCP and Square Enix, there are probably others but those are the 2 that spring to mind, mostly because of the games i am currently involved in, but as anyone who has played Eve lately can attest as to how close the developers are, not only to the game, but to the players themselves, the CSM is made up of players after all, and while may not agree with some of the things that have been done in the game, im just one player, and developers have to look at the 'bigger picture' which having said that, im still very happy with the game anyway. Square Enix mostly because of the things they have done and are doing, not many would do what they did with FF XIV:ARR,  EA for instance would have probably canned it same as they did with Earth and Beyond etc, but have to say, the video's Square Enix made linking  FF XIV 1.0 to ARR, totally awesomeimage

    But probably have to be a long time fan of FF games to really appreciate it.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Foomerang  

    Originally posted by Distopia I just hope (especially in the case of ESO) that these companies have some type of actual sustainable plan here. I certainly hope they're not simply going by the opinions shared on sites like this. As these sites typical side with anything viewed as "oldschool" over all else. There's little actual thought put into why this or that is preferred in these posts, they simply think it just means a better game or community and it doesn't.
      Sub may not mean "better" community. But it does mean "different" community. You have to admit F2P mmos and P2P mmos have a different feel from each other. The tone of the game changes. When Rift when F2P, it just didnt feel the same anymore and that was a subtle cash shop. For an mmorpg to work for me, I want to know that everyone I'm playing with is paying the same price. Maybe its just me, but I like the feeling of "we're in it together" that a monthly sub creates. Cash shop games don't have that. You get whales that show off the crap they bought and the freeloaders that lol at the "suckers" and thank them for the free game. Its not the same vibe. Thats the best way I can describe it for me personally.
    To me that just seems like personality traits. Instead of the whale bragging about everything they bought, and the Freebie putting him down for doing it. IN a P2P you have the min-maxer bragging about all that he's earned and showing it off, while the casual guy puts him down for having no life.

     

    Choosing how you spend your time in a game and choosing how you spend your money in a game are not good comparisons imo. Id also argue that the player driven economy is one of the VERY few unique aspects of an mmorpg. No other genre has it. Cash shops undermine a defining feature of the genre.

    This is the single biggest reason for my departure from GW2. And it is why I am done with Cash Shops and hope to be subbed to FF14 for years to come. I am a meta gamer and I love to craft and play the markets. GW2 just lacks this. as does all the other F2P games.

    But I gather these are important to you as well. Some of my fondest memories in older MMOs revolve around the activities that have currently become despised. Camping, grinding, farming, repeating content til you wanted to scream but finally! I got what I wanted. The people that are attracted to this kind of game see the value in a subscription, these activities take time.

    However, what we determined as a defining feature in the genre mean little to the F2P/B2P crowd. Action, fun, Non-Stop until you burn out and move to the next title. These are what fules them. To them, when it's no longer exciting, it's time to move on. What then is the point of the sub?

    Problem is, Those games aren't really MMORPGs. but MMORPG developers wanted their money. Now we get games that don't truly appeal to anyone. save a very small handful of titles.

     

    What devs need to realize is that there are enough gamers willing to pay a sub. SWTOR's 2M sales is proof of that. But we need a reason to log in every day. If that reason isnt there, Why on earth would I want to pay a sub for a game that will run out of things to do in a month? SWTOR is also proof of this too.

    SWTOR didn't fail (As a sub game) because it was a subscription game, it failed because it didn't have enough things to do in it long term.

    Rift had mediocre success as a Sub game. It had the dungeons and raids down. For that, I'd say Rift was the best in the industry. Better than WoW even. So why did it meet with moderate success and eventually drop the sub? I believe it didn't have enough of the other things to do. To this day, i have yet to experience a game that had as much to do on a day to day basis as TBC did. Do you think that might have something to do with why it was the pinnacle of WoW's success in most WoW player's memories? At least the ones I talked to.

  • LonzoLonzo Member UncommonPosts: 294
    You can only form strong communities with the good old subscription model.

    image
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by kaz350
    Originally posted by Myrdynn
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    I'm happy to see all these games going P2P.  I can't stand F2P.  I played them for about a year, but finally got fed up with all the nickel and diming.  I'm P2P for life!  I liked Rift, but left as soon as it went F2P.   I just don't like the problems tha come with a F2P game.

    so narrowminded, that is the problem with p2p people, which I was for years, until RIFT went free2play.  Their model is flawless, and it doesnt have any problems what so ever with f2p

    2 of these 3 games will be f2p within a yr of launch, FF14 has a loyal base, but it should be f2p as well, but they will keep it p2p.  ESO and Wildstar especially will be hurting for players, 3-6 months after launch.  Wildstar, wouldnt surpise me to see f2p within 6 months, its player base isnt gonna be that good, after the "free" 60$ month.

     

    Ironic you use the world "narrowminded"  Rift's model is NOT flawless....is there anything ...ANYTHING in the Cash Shop, Cash Shop only? Yes including so called "useless" vanity items like dyes, flavor armor etc?

     

    Yes? Then its not flawless....I want the ENTIRE game for one low monthly fee. All the game...ALL the vanity items...everything !

    What game offers that that only charges a monthly fee?  No extra RMT, no xpacs and dlc box fee charges, nothing extra, just a sub.  I'm having a hard time coming up with one game that does that and has all their vanity items in game.  I would say Lineage but it doesn't have appearance mods and it's not available in NA.  Is that one game, if it exists even any good?

    If you are willing to wait a few more days, I'll give you a title that fits.

  • faiyofaiyo Member Posts: 123

    No way I'm giving Square my money so they can use it make more shitty FF games for the console tho. But there's no way i'ts going f2p anyway lol.

     

    WS is most likely to go free. I'll keep saying this now but FF and maybe Elder Scrolls - maybe - can hold onto a sub because of their franchise. That's all it is, let's be real.
  • lafaiellafaiel Member UncommonPosts: 93
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by lafaiel
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    It makes me wonder about the profits gained by the sub model, it must have a substantial benefit over the F2P model if they are willing to attempt to be the Ferrari of MMOs and charge a monthly fee.

     

      I don't think its the profit so much as the stability, they can plan accordingly for content updates knowing they have a given budget to work with in advance vs people sporadically spending money in thier store one week and then not again for months.

      I have this feeling that a lot of game developers take some pride in thier work, they want to work on content that will make the player happy or amazed in some way, not some gimmick sold in a cash shop but they want to give the player an actual in game experience that will wow them, if they have a steady income they can do that with less stress, less stressed employees make less hasty or bad decisions for the most part unless they get greedy.  If you ever noticed most bad game decisions come from some executive at the top who does not even play games.

      If you can do something you take pride in and feed your family at the same time, the results are usually a better product/service, but in the world we live in today of corporate controlled everything its not easy to do.

    The only 2 Developers offhand that probably fit that category, is imo at least, CCP and Square Enix, there are probably others but those are the 2 that spring to mind, mostly because of the games i am currently involved in, but as anyone who has played Eve lately can attest as to how close the developers are, not only to the game, but to the players themselves, the CSM is made up of players after all, and while may not agree with some of the things that have been done in the game, im just one player, and developers have to look at the 'bigger picture' which having said that, im still very happy with the game anyway. Square Enix mostly because of the things they have done and are doing, not many would do what they did with FF XIV:ARR,  EA for instance would have probably canned it same as they did with Earth and Beyond etc, but have to say, the video's Square Enix made linking  FF XIV 1.0 to ARR, totally awesomeimage

    But probably have to be a long time fan of FF games to really appreciate it.

     On the topic of EVE online, thier devs haven't been close to thier game only "lately", I started playing it in 2005, and have played off and on for years, still the only full out pvp game I actually enjoy, even back then I always marveled at how you could post on the forums and get a dev response in minutes, hard to complain about them not playing thier own game when you see them actually flying about in thier little decked out dev spaceships, they deserve the success they've had, they've made a niche and stuck to it think or thin and made it what it is now.

     

     SE is getting my money, its amazing what they've done with the game from 1,0 in the short time they've had, the community is pretty good as well, F2P makes MMO hoppers that jump from one to the next, I don't care for that, I want a stable game with content that I know will come out, and an invested player base to play with, people I know will not just up and move to the next new thing in the next few weeks, FFXIV: ARR offers me that along with something that I can't put my finger on that makes me want to play it, just can't get enough of it.

  • aemo42aemo42 Member Posts: 12
    I am so thrilled by this, both of the games I am anticipating have gone for sub model yay! I feel like I will finally get a game I can get my teeth into without being rolled for cash continuously. Every F2P game I have played feels like it was made by people who wanted to make money rather than people who wanted to make a game. Bring it on! Yay
  • JagaridJagarid Member UncommonPosts: 415
    The decision to go F2P or P2P is not about trends in the industry, imo.  If a game is good enough, it can support a P2p model.  The problem is that MOST MMOs simply are not good enough.   SWTOR was killed by the lack of end game and the overall mediocre design of the game (other than the story part), not by their sub model.
  • HokieHokie Member UncommonPosts: 1,063

    I prefer to pay a sub.

    But if I sub to a game and they have an item shop that they are constantly adding to then I need to get/earn some dividends from my sub, in the form of cash shop money.

    Its why I dont mind subbing to TOR. They are still updating the game, still balancing it and adding new stuff to the cartel market (the item shop). But nothing that really changes the game or gives a huge advantage.

    The cartel market is there for the impulsive buyers/players that have no self control. As I dont need to have the newest glowie speeder, or holo pet, or skimpy outfit I just pick and choose and have never spent a dime more than my subscription.

     

    Now its different with games like Champions or Star Trek when they were sub games. It was obvious it was a game designed to require a sub and then bleed you thru the item market. There was no real effort to even disguise that fact. *And yes I know they are both now FTP

     

    So games like ESO and FF** and Wildstar will need to provide regular content updates and not seem like they are dumping all that sub money into an item shop. That just something the community wont stand for anymore. Not with games like GW2 that shows you dont need a sub.

     

     

    "I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  • BrynnBrynn Member Posts: 345
    For most of us, we may choose one subscription out of all of them, and play the ftp for any others.
  • IcythearchmageIcythearchmage Member Posts: 2
    Yoshi-P went so far as to say FFXIV:ARR would shut down their servers before going F2P.  If any of you were hoping for it to eventually go there you'll be sorely disappointed, FFXI has been going strong for 10 years!
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