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Can emergent AI "grief" players?
Bidwood
Member Posts: 554
Just thinking... Georgeson was saying the mobs wont just stay still. They'll have 'likes' and 'dislikes' and will move from place to place if where they are isn't comfortable.
So from the perspective of someone who only has experience playing themeparks, will it be too much if a mob wanders into their territory and kills them?
Even if there isn't open-world PVP... what if a guild applies a bunch of pressure to a tribe of strong mobs, forcing it to migrate down the hill and set up shop in a community of weak/peaceful players?
If SOE delivers on emergent AI and it really becomes a threat, will we see folks drop out of the game because they're turned off by the prospect of nonconsensual PVE? Now there's a thought.
Comments
I'd imagine that players will have to be as dynamic as the "AI" in that case. Example. If a group of Griefers put a lot of pressure on the orc camp, over time that orc camp will move. If the orc camp moves to a place where players thought was mainly "safe", the players can then move to a different location themselves.
It sounds like there will be safe zones. In the video today they spoke about Areas of Interest and gave the example of the Wizard Spires, and that they want these areas to become social "hubs" within the world; a place where someone can sell their junk, and so on.
For those looking for a I win button then it will be too much for them, those looking something different might actually like that mobs are more reactive and life like.
I have actually stated this in several threads about EQN in the past few weeks and I think this is a legitimate concern for carebears. I think this has partly fueled the fire of vehement opposition to no trinity because they won't have loot pinatas to farm.
edit- It is payback time for all the slaughters that took place on the orc highway.
Life IS Feudal
HAHHA, your edit!
Yeah, and I'm seeing comments like "What will people do if there's no vertical progression?"
This game could change everything...
I'm looking forward to it too, just... thinking it's going to be a huge change.
So what if the players spent ages building a little town they're proud of there, and the mobs set up shop?
The Wizard spires sound cool.
If there are "unsafe" areas because mobs are smart, mobile and will attack you, what about other players? PVP question.
I honestly don't know. It sounds like guild cities are in, but are they "safe" zones for enemy AI? Unknown at this time. It's possible that the orcs are looking for a quiet, unpopulated, place to setup camp; which in that case, wouldn't be by player housing.
I also heard that destruction will be turned off in big Cities (Qeynos) to stop griefers from destroying the place - but it is still turned "on" for NPC enimies. This brings up the question: "What happens if someone traines that huge Iron Golum back to Qeynos and it starts ripping up the place?"
Lots of questions left. heh.
Yeah they said player housing is safe from players, they say didn't mobs , I know in UO the mobs cant attack you in your house but they where still annoying to have around in a lot numbers.
Concentrations of wealth (money and valuable items) will attract orcs in particular and that will override most other tags. It is covered in one of the panel videos from SOELive and I forgot which one.
Life IS Feudal
If that iron golem shows up at your house...
Life IS Feudal
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hey now, I'm an old fart. From what I've heard thus far, I'm pretty excited to play.
If there was one thing, if I had to name but one, would be the games name. They could of come up with something a little better then "next". What's everquest 5 going to be called in 10 years, Next-Next? heh. :-/
i don't think a A.I can grief, it just does what it program to do, grief is other players trying to ruin your fun.
LOL if players are really so attached to their position in the world then they will have to fight for it and keep it pacified if they are too bad to do that then of course they shouldnt be able to be there in EQNext.
They should have to call for help or move somewhere else.
If they are so bad they are basically helpless and need their hands held every step of the way they will need to stick to the easiest areas or just play EQLandmark simple as that.
Games need to stop dumbing themselves down to the lowest common denominator it is throttling the pace of innovation in the gaming industry. Players should be expected to improve their own abilites along with their character sheets if they want to keep up with more accomplished players. It should not be that more accomplished players have to suffer with hardcaps on progression/challenge just so players do not have to rise up to their level to see the content.
Okay. So while there may not be "griefers" will there be "griefed"?
Tell that to MK3 at hardest difficulty, I still hear Toasties! in my sleep. I almost forgot about the recurring nightmare of being humped in a corner and scissor thrown.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Your example of a group of players driving the orcs into a town is great! Players should be able to affect each other in both positive and negative ways. It's an online game that thrives on social interaction. If people are so worried about being "griefed", they should go play some 1-player console game...
I thought trains in EQ1 forced some great social interaction!
An unfettered true AI in control of all mobs would definitely grief players because that's the goal of AI ,to perceive it's surroundings,to learn and then make the best decisions and actions to achieve it's goal.
I doubt that's what SOE intends.More likely it will be limited individual MOB AI with restricted goals and available actions if it realyl has AI at all,but we will see.
No just frustration that the AI is beating you like in every other video game. Are grief and frustration the same thing? I would say suck it up its just part of the game to those who feel grief.
Your arguing semantics.
Yes an AI can't really grief because it is not deriving pleasure and satisfaction from negatively impacting a players experience by deliberately targetting the player with unwinnable situations or actions it's impossible to counter.
But the crux of the question is would an AI would employ tactics that would be considered griefing if done by players?To which the answer is yes an AI would because that would be the best and easiest way to achieve it's goal.
However no game developer would use an unfettered,unrestrained AI that would do so because most peopel would not find that fun.Remember griefing tactics isn't a challenge because as I say above such tactics are not winnable by the player no matter what.
I'm "old" and I think that would be awesome actually.
One thing I miss from MMOs is mob raids against outposts and the like - That was my favorite part of Tabula Rasa.
Sometimes we held the outposts, other times we lost it and had to retreat and retake it later. Was great.
I see what you mean if the A.I is corpse camping it wouldn't be fun. Players are going to complain no matter what they do with the A.I.
I like the idea of a orc burning down my home because I wasn't proactive enough to deal with the orcs in the area, there is going to be fine line between grief and making the mobs behave like they really would in a role-playing game.
No bitchers.