Originally posted by Eeks There's also apparently a bunch of character progression they haven't talked about yet according to one of Darrin's tweets... on top of that they HAVE talked about increasing attributes and that it'd be very difficult. I have the feeling this game will offer a lot more to do than any other mmo out.
Would you mind linking those tweets or posts?
Thanks!
Are there base stats that characters start with?
McPherson: Yeah, we call those attributes. The attribute system is completely different in this game. So, instead of all of your equipment giving you attributes, attributes aren’t found on equipment. Attributes are very rare things that you can work tremendously hard to modify.
Giving yourself a point of strength means that maybe you jump higher, or really significantly cool things...and that’s one of the things you can progress and earn in the game.
Jeff Butler, Creative Director: They affect your gameplay. For everyone. So, strength can be important for even a wizard.
So it’s not a matter of increasing DPS?
Butler: Not merely a matter of increasing DPS.
McPherson: Not merely. It will, and those things help, but intelligence doesn’t just increase the DPS for a wizard. Intelligence might be really good because it lets you swing wider with your weapons, or something like that.
Butler: Intelligence might not be useless for a warrior.
McPherson: Absolutely, it won’t be. So that was one of our goals, that attributes are useful to everybody.
And
@TaliskerDev Are there any other forms of class progression besides weapon skills, class specific skills and equipment? #EQNext
Originally posted by ignore_me For me, in SWG, I felt the game began at level cap. My adventures were best after I had used all my points and then started trying new class combinations.
SWG had a ton of potential, but was left alone and broken.. It was only a matter of time it fail.. Jedi's should of been in the game from Day 1.. Other Professions were broken or a waste of time.. And absolutely there should of been DEV developed content released on a monthly basis.. (similar to Rally Calls)..
OK.... so for me, in SWG, I felt the game Began at level cap. My adventures were best after I had used all my points, and the started trying new class combinations.
You can still be better than other players with the same stats on gear. You can be more experienced and you can have a better build of skills than your enemy. Skillbased.
Originally posted by InFlamestwo You can still be better than other players with the same stats on gear. You can be more experienced and you can have a better build of skills than your enemy. Skillbased.
And I imagine that building your character is supposed to be only one axis of advancement/construction in the game. There is probably focus on building your Lot or Property, Rallying Call progress and achievements, maybe getting your Epic Weapon, etc.
Not too mention whatever the PvP situation is.
Also, with a sandbox there are usually things to do socially built around gathering, hunting mobs out of an area, being a part of a city, etc.
I love how OP refutes everyone and they're just supposed to take him at his/her word, then he/she turns around and requires a research paper with citing and documentation.
I assure you, their word is as good (or better) as yours.
As for saying GW2 is too "actiony" again I think that's more a symptom of too much WvW and not enough meaningful competitive tournament play. I guess they could slow it down and dumb it down for those that are too slow to keep up, however, GW2 works well imo and as you play more of the classes you can recognize WHICH abilities are worth dodging not just dodge every one. Timing your abilities for interrupts/knockdowns/etc..is also a large part of gameplay. If you're just spamming your buttons then you'll never do well against the good players, which is why people complain about x, y, z class being OP then they make one and realize they can't replicate what happened to them.
GW2 is far from perfect, however, to claim that there's no strategy nor timing involved is really more a reflection of where you're at in the game and not a flaw in the game itself.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
Wushu uses skill tiers and item tiers. The catch is these things take time. No one knows close to everything. It would literally take years. As far as gear, I wore the same things for nearly 4 months. There was no real reason for me to upgrade even though there were higher tiers. Lower tier gear can be better than higher tier. This is why no two character are close to the same, time.
As long as there are a lot of meaningful tiers and a lot of skills, lots of ways to munipate stats. I will be pleased.
in EQ1 when I saw other players with gear or a particular achievement, I knew they were respectable, instantly.
This comment made me laugh out loud. If gear is your guide to who is respectable you have my sympathy. There were so many disgraceful individuals running around in fancy/high end gear. Not to mention you could buy characters / items through 3rd party means. So, no, gear has nothing to do with respect.
On the matter of everyone looking at the same after enough time has passed in an MMO I would suggest the following solution.
Every item has a base model.
Regions on these models can have attachments, fitting to the armor type. (large plats, leathers, cloth, trinkets, braids, winged blades, etc)
Attachments could be tweaked by mirroring, 360 degrees of rotation for the attachment, tilted within limits, or some other simple editing technique.
Another option or in conjunction with attachment regions on these models can be edited out to a limited distance (see Cube World)
They have already mentioned tinting is in the game. Tinting and colors are nice but doesn't detract from all the cloned armors running around everywhere.
For a good SANDBOX I'm really looking forward to ArcheAge, where boats exist and can become weapons. Poo-poo'ers can crap on ArcheAge, but seriously, that game offers more than EQN, unless you're just looking for destructibiliy and console combat, in which EQN is the choice.
Then please go to the ArcheAge forums and take your negativity with you. We've seen maybe 5 min total of actual in game footage and magically you already know exactly how all of the systems in EQN work.
You have a gift my friend. Don't hide that in a bushel basket.
Originally posted by Bad.dog Isn't that what they call a skill based game ?...where folks with playing skills have an advantage over folks that just can farm gear
Yes, also known as a GW2 cap boredom, because there is nothing else to achieve.
GW2 skill amounts to basically who you bring with you, and the timing of your "dodge" button. I'd rather have a lasting game, like EQ3!
Achieve can mean a number of things in a game not solely based on developer made content.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
A game that changes every day with players and emergent A.I monsters effecting the world around them and a added element of minecraft style terrain that procedurally generates new content to explore will hold plenty of people attention. I can be evil Shadow Knight and do evil things and this game gives me the freedom to do so.
Enjoy your modern day shopping malls in Archage I will be playing a real fantasy and making my own adventures in it.
I'm glad you think you will be playing a real fantasy cash shop game compared to one of these fake fantasy cash shop games. Hehe that just sounds silly.
Its still a cash shop based game, there is nothing "Fantasy" like about that. Its called a shopping mall in your virtual world. And I haven't seen a single thing to indicate players will be making their own adventures. They are just gimmicks.
A game that changes every day with players and emergent A.I monsters effecting the world around them and a added element of minecraft style terrain that procedurally generates new content to explore will hold plenty of people attention. I can be evil Shadow Knight and do evil things and this game gives me the freedom to do so.
Enjoy your modern day shopping malls in Archage I will be playing a real fantasy and making my own adventures in it.
I'm glad you think you will be playing a real fantasy cash shop game compared to one of these fake fantasy cash shop games. Hehe that just sounds silly.
Its still a cash shop based game, there is nothing "Fantasy" like about that. Its called a shopping mall in your virtual world. And I haven't seen a single thing to indicate players will be making their own adventures. They are just gimmicks.
Wasn't even talking about cash shops, I was talking about modern concepts being in a fantasy game.
But whatever floats your boat on making assumptions.
While I don't agree with the OP thoughts on how fast people with become bored in EQN.
Because right now we have so little information on the game and were comparing it to games the most of us have experienced. I would image that they have not revealed all there cards just yet. I believe one of the reasons for keeping so quite about eqn was to avoid other companys from copying some of the things they were implementing (not to say EQN isn't using allot of features seen in other games)
But theres one post that just bugged me. and thats the guy who said it took days in eq1 to max level. thats just crap for a 20-30 hour a week person it took me a month sometimes longer depending on the class. But also the amount of deaths as each one cost you exp and the hell levels. I hated those hell levels.
"You may want to look like you did at tier four, during the middle of progression...". So assuming the middle of four is eight (though I assume a round number of 10):
That's two months to get one class to tier cap and about 6-1/2 years to get max tier for all classes without adding in time to aquire each of them...
Edit: If I'm right and they did round to 10 for the tiers then that's 2-1/2 months per class and eight years, four months for all classes. . Of course this can't be completely true because you should be getting items for other classes in your travels. The point is there is a lot of progression for those that want it and I think the system is set up in many more facets than we know now.
I think you are reading too much into an off-hand statement that was probably just a misspeak.
Originally posted by Crazy_Stick So there is a gear cap? We haven't really seen enough of their end game ideas to know what is in store yet and I don't want to trash it ahead of time. Maybe they will one up GW2 for WV3 with PVP that allows you to chop off another player characters head and steal their power so you don't have to quest grind for classes? Maybe the assumed raid dungeons will have random elements. Maybe there will be guildhall and feature grind to open up new functional additions in landmark. I am just not stoking a fire till there is meat to burn dude.
There is no endgame in Sandbox game, you do want to do and make your own goals. Sandbox game doesn't end its just there for you to play in. The content comes from interacting with the other players in the world and making your own adventures. Rallying Calls are big world events that you can take part in or not , but they said even if you are on the other end of the world you can still effect the out come of a Rallying Call just by doing something that triggers other events like a ripple in a pond of water.
EVE has a good video about the butterfly effect one person can have in a sandbox game where your one choice can cause a lot things to happen. The hook of a sandbox game is too get evolve into wants going on around you in the game world and too make your own mark in it.
I dunno, I dislike the similarities people make between EQN and EVE. EQN as proposed seems more like GW2 with other MMORPG altaholic stuff going on, perhaps more like SWTOR, where altaholics got global account benefits via Legacy for doing more alts.
GW2 had no endgame, and like hell thats a sandbox.
All this talk about EVE, and I think I'll be playing that tonight!
GW 2 is not a sandbox, its a themepark game that took some ideas from sandbox games and tried to make the world less rigid as far giving players choices on how to level and progress. You still follow a quest line that has a end and nothing in the world changes because the dynamic events are scripted and reset themselves.
EQ Next is a true sandbox game, there is no comparison between the two games. EQ Next will give you the freedom to go and do anything you want to do and as long as you progress your gear and items higher tier areas will open up to you to explore and harvest resources. Players in GW 2 have to wait on devs to make new content to get anything new to do in it. Players in EQ 2 make there own content just by being in the world and effecting change in it, this has been done in older sandbox games.
1- In BOTH GW2 and EQN you NEED to start off in the same low level areas until you become more powerful for high level monsters. BOTH games let you walk ahead to high level areas and play there but in BOTH games you will die in seconds.
2- In BOTH games new areas open up for you to explore and harvest resources as you level up.
3- In BOTH games you have to wait for devs to create new content.
4- In GW2 if you dont want to do a world event it will affect the game world effecting change in it. Destroying bridges so you have to walk another way. Wiping out a camp or village.
They way you mentioned this points will not help make your case on how powerful and new EQN features will be.
Originally posted by Crazy_Stick So there is a gear cap? We haven't really seen enough of their end game ideas to know what is in store yet and I don't want to trash it ahead of time. Maybe they will one up GW2 for WV3 with PVP that allows you to chop off another player characters head and steal their power so you don't have to quest grind for classes? Maybe the assumed raid dungeons will have random elements. Maybe there will be guildhall and feature grind to open up new functional additions in landmark. I am just not stoking a fire till there is meat to burn dude.
There is no endgame in Sandbox game, you do want to do and make your own goals. Sandbox game doesn't end its just there for you to play in. The content comes from interacting with the other players in the world and making your own adventures. Rallying Calls are big world events that you can take part in or not , but they said even if you are on the other end of the world you can still effect the out come of a Rallying Call just by doing something that triggers other events like a ripple in a pond of water.
EVE has a good video about the butterfly effect one person can have in a sandbox game where your one choice can cause a lot things to happen. The hook of a sandbox game is too get evolve into wants going on around you in the game world and too make your own mark in it.
I dunno, I dislike the similarities people make between EQN and EVE. EQN as proposed seems more like GW2 with other MMORPG altaholic stuff going on, perhaps more like SWTOR, where altaholics got global account benefits via Legacy for doing more alts.
GW2 had no endgame, and like hell thats a sandbox.
All this talk about EVE, and I think I'll be playing that tonight!
GW 2 is not a sandbox, its a themepark game that took some ideas from sandbox games and tried to make the world less rigid as far giving players choices on how to level and progress. You still follow a quest line that has a end and nothing in the world changes because the dynamic events are scripted and reset themselves.
EQ Next is a true sandbox game, there is no comparison between the two games. EQ Next will give you the freedom to go and do anything you want to do and as long as you progress your gear and items higher tier areas will open up to you to explore and harvest resources. Players in GW 2 have to wait on devs to make new content to get anything new to do in it. Players in EQ 2 make there own content just by being in the world and effecting change in it, this has been done in older sandbox games.
1- In BOTH GW2 and EQN you NEED to start off in the same low level areas until you become more powerful for high level monsters. BOTH games let you walk ahead to high level areas and play there but in BOTH games you will die in seconds.
2- In BOTH games new areas open up for you to explore and harvest resources as you level up.
3- In BOTH games you have to wait for devs to create new content.
4- In GW2 if you dont want to do a world event it will affect the game world effecting change in it. Destroying bridges so you have to walk another way. Wiping out a camp or village.
They way you mentioned this points will not help make your case on how powerful and new EQN features will be.
Guildwars 2 is a themepark, you are still on rails in the game, there is a quest line to follow and there is a end, in tell the devs come out with new content. Nothing changes those world event reset for other players, you cannot effect the world in any meaningful way.
EQ Next your choices will effect the world around you rather if you realize it or not, if chose to help or destroy a farmer's home will cause other things to happen. The world is always changing everyday and evolves, players make their own stories in the game exploring, creating cities, setting up shops for people to buy things and making the world come to life through interaction.
"You may want to look like you did at tier four, during the middle of progression...". So assuming the middle of four is eight (though I assume a round number of 10):
That's two months to get one class to tier cap and about 6-1/2 years to get max tier for all classes without adding in time to aquire each of them...
Edit: If I'm right and they did round to 10 for the tiers then that's 2-1/2 months per class and eight years, four months for all classes. . Of course this can't be completely true because you should be getting items for other classes in your travels. The point is there is a lot of progression for those that want it and I think the system is set up in many more facets than we know now.
I think you are reading too much into an off-hand statement that was probably just a misspeak.
You don't think he knows how many tiers there are in the game he's designing? Okay, well then take five tiers since it would be after four. The figures were never meant to be exact.
The figures were just making a point about how much time investement there can be with so many variables. The whole premise if this thread was to take half information and make it something that it isn't. I at least was basing my assumptions off of all we know based on what's out there.
The OP sounds to me like he just hates it when someone switches off his skinner-box, and the game stops to make him grind for the next shiny armour set.
If you ask me, the whole endgame grinding is not that desirable in the first place. In the end it is just a exaggerated slot machine. It is horribly linear and uncreative.
You can't just equate EQN and GW2. They are two very different kinds of games. At least I hope they will be. One is a sandbox and the other one a themepark.
The whole gear grind is a typical themepark mechanic. EQN will hopefully have something differed to provide long term investment. I hope there will be mot to the game then just grinding for gear. I see this as a relief. I don't have to chase the next carrot in the form of a armour set, that the game dangles in front of my nose, instead I can attend the more creative aspects of the game.
Comments
Are there base stats that characters start with?
McPherson: Yeah, we call those attributes. The attribute system is completely different in this game. So, instead of all of your equipment giving you attributes, attributes aren’t found on equipment. Attributes are very rare things that you can work tremendously hard to modify.
Giving yourself a point of strength means that maybe you jump higher, or really significantly cool things...and that’s one of the things you can progress and earn in the game.
Jeff Butler, Creative Director: They affect your gameplay. For everyone. So, strength can be important for even a wizard.
So it’s not a matter of increasing DPS?
Butler: Not merely a matter of increasing DPS.
McPherson: Not merely. It will, and those things help, but intelligence doesn’t just increase the DPS for a wizard. Intelligence might be really good because it lets you swing wider with your weapons, or something like that.
Butler: Intelligence might not be useless for a warrior.
McPherson: Absolutely, it won’t be. So that was one of our goals, that attributes are useful to everybody.
And
OK.... so for me, in SWG, I felt the game Began at level cap. My adventures were best after I had used all my points, and the started trying new class combinations.
Hopefully EQN will have a similar play dynamic.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
And I imagine that building your character is supposed to be only one axis of advancement/construction in the game. There is probably focus on building your Lot or Property, Rallying Call progress and achievements, maybe getting your Epic Weapon, etc.
Not too mention whatever the PvP situation is.
Also, with a sandbox there are usually things to do socially built around gathering, hunting mobs out of an area, being a part of a city, etc.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I love how OP refutes everyone and they're just supposed to take him at his/her word, then he/she turns around and requires a research paper with citing and documentation.
I assure you, their word is as good (or better) as yours.
As for saying GW2 is too "actiony" again I think that's more a symptom of too much WvW and not enough meaningful competitive tournament play. I guess they could slow it down and dumb it down for those that are too slow to keep up, however, GW2 works well imo and as you play more of the classes you can recognize WHICH abilities are worth dodging not just dodge every one. Timing your abilities for interrupts/knockdowns/etc..is also a large part of gameplay. If you're just spamming your buttons then you'll never do well against the good players, which is why people complain about x, y, z class being OP then they make one and realize they can't replicate what happened to them.
GW2 is far from perfect, however, to claim that there's no strategy nor timing involved is really more a reflection of where you're at in the game and not a flaw in the game itself.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
As long as there are a lot of meaningful tiers and a lot of skills, lots of ways to munipate stats. I will be pleased.
This comment made me laugh out loud. If gear is your guide to who is respectable you have my sympathy. There were so many disgraceful individuals running around in fancy/high end gear. Not to mention you could buy characters / items through 3rd party means. So, no, gear has nothing to do with respect.
On the matter of everyone looking at the same after enough time has passed in an MMO I would suggest the following solution.
Then please go to the ArcheAge forums and take your negativity with you. We've seen maybe 5 min total of actual in game footage and magically you already know exactly how all of the systems in EQN work.
You have a gift my friend. Don't hide that in a bushel basket.
Achieve can mean a number of things in a game not solely based on developer made content.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm glad you think you will be playing a real fantasy cash shop game compared to one of these fake fantasy cash shop games. Hehe that just sounds silly.
Its still a cash shop based game, there is nothing "Fantasy" like about that. Its called a shopping mall in your virtual world. And I haven't seen a single thing to indicate players will be making their own adventures. They are just gimmicks.
Wasn't even talking about cash shops, I was talking about modern concepts being in a fantasy game.
But whatever floats your boat on making assumptions.
While I don't agree with the OP thoughts on how fast people with become bored in EQN.
Because right now we have so little information on the game and were comparing it to games the most of us have experienced. I would image that they have not revealed all there cards just yet. I believe one of the reasons for keeping so quite about eqn was to avoid other companys from copying some of the things they were implementing (not to say EQN isn't using allot of features seen in other games)
But theres one post that just bugged me. and thats the guy who said it took days in eq1 to max level. thats just crap for a 20-30 hour a week person it took me a month sometimes longer depending on the class. But also the amount of deaths as each one cost you exp and the hell levels. I hated those hell levels.
Druid and Necro were the fastest for me to level.
I think you are reading too much into an off-hand statement that was probably just a misspeak.
1- In BOTH GW2 and EQN you NEED to start off in the same low level areas until you become more powerful for high level monsters. BOTH games let you walk ahead to high level areas and play there but in BOTH games you will die in seconds.
2- In BOTH games new areas open up for you to explore and harvest resources as you level up.
3- In BOTH games you have to wait for devs to create new content.
4- In GW2 if you dont want to do a world event it will affect the game world effecting change in it. Destroying bridges so you have to walk another way. Wiping out a camp or village.
They way you mentioned this points will not help make your case on how powerful and new EQN features will be.
Guildwars 2 is a themepark, you are still on rails in the game, there is a quest line to follow and there is a end, in tell the devs come out with new content. Nothing changes those world event reset for other players, you cannot effect the world in any meaningful way.
EQ Next your choices will effect the world around you rather if you realize it or not, if chose to help or destroy a farmer's home will cause other things to happen. The world is always changing everyday and evolves, players make their own stories in the game exploring, creating cities, setting up shops for people to buy things and making the world come to life through interaction.
You don't think he knows how many tiers there are in the game he's designing? Okay, well then take five tiers since it would be after four. The figures were never meant to be exact.
The figures were just making a point about how much time investement there can be with so many variables. The whole premise if this thread was to take half information and make it something that it isn't. I at least was basing my assumptions off of all we know based on what's out there.
The OP sounds to me like he just hates it when someone switches off his skinner-box, and the game stops to make him grind for the next shiny armour set.
If you ask me, the whole endgame grinding is not that desirable in the first place. In the end it is just a exaggerated slot machine. It is horribly linear and uncreative.
You can't just equate EQN and GW2. They are two very different kinds of games. At least I hope they will be. One is a sandbox and the other one a themepark.
The whole gear grind is a typical themepark mechanic. EQN will hopefully have something differed to provide long term investment. I hope there will be mot to the game then just grinding for gear. I see this as a relief. I don't have to chase the next carrot in the form of a armour set, that the game dangles in front of my nose, instead I can attend the more creative aspects of the game.