Goodbye Tookie

Jorev · December 2005

Good riddance scumbag.

Darktania · December 2005

He'll forever be remembered as a monster to society. A monster that killed a family of 3 in a motel room. A monster that made an innocent store clerk lay on his belly , then shot him twice in the back, while he begged for his life. A monster that laughed at the sounds his victims made as they lay dying on the ground. A monster that never apologized for his crimes to society. A monster that never attoned for his past crimes as he kept his gang name "Tookie".

They should have killed him the way he killed his victims. Lay him on his belly and shoot him in the back.

noname12345 · December 2005

He has been trying his best to warn others about his way of life. He wrote a childrens book all about the horrific life of a gangster. So now they want to kill him? He's doing good, he's a living example of what this whole way of life leads to. I say let him speak out to the public about gang life and give him the resources needed to do that, but don't kill him. It has actually been documented that people do listen to him and changed.

pyrofreak · December 2005

Originally posted by AlexAmore
He has been trying his best to warn others about his way of life. He wrote a childrens book all about the horrific life of a gangster. So now they want to kill him? He's doing good, he's a living example of what this whole way of life leads to. I say let him speak out to the public about gang life and give him the resources needed to do that, but don't kill him. It has actually been documented that people do listen to him and changed.

They killed him around midnight, btw.

Rikimaru_X · December 2005

Damn...I hope his anti-gang message goes out to all the hard places. This monster went in to prison and actually soften while he was there, but it's too late for that monster to be released.

I don't know what to say....but goodbye. He done things that can't be forgiven, but as long as his messages about gangs and violence...hopefully he wont' be forgoten.

I can tell many people don't know wo Tookie is (or don't care...I don't know):

Here is a little jump start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Williams

Kjarl · December 2005

Anyone weak willed enough to NEED a gang for identity will not care what his book said. In the end weakness of self, the drive for acceptance at any cost, will win out over common sense. Anyone can find an excuse for what they have done, a way to justify thier misdeeds. Oh I cant get out because Im black, Oh I didnt get to go to collage, oh me oh my I didnt get the breaks. America is far from perfect but if you want out then make your way, but dont play stupid and think a gang is gonna save ya. You wanna sell drugs, you want to use drugs, you way carry a gun and be a bad man go right ahead. We are all just animals and the city is a cage, but just remember, when an animal turns on its own its put down without remorse.

You get what you give.

Dekron · December 2005

Originally posted by AlexAmore

He has been trying his best to warn others about his way of life. He wrote a childrens book all about the horrific life of a gangster. So now they want to kill him? He's doing good, he's a living example of what this whole way of life leads to. I say let him speak out to the public about gang life and give him the resources needed to do that, but don't kill him. It has actually been documented that people do listen to him and changed.

Just because he wrote a few childrens books doesn't mean he is a redeemed man. Should rapists or child molestors now expect shorter sentences if they write a book or advocate against their crime? He was a convicted killer. He was sentenced to death and received the punishment he deserved. The celebrity involvment in this one very much upset me, and especially because they claimed he was being executed because he was black!

If you want to know the truth of his crimes and get knocked back into reality , go to http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/ (home of radio talk show host Michael Savage 0f the Savage Nation) and look for the pictures of his victims. They are very shocking and disturbing. It wouldn't even matter if he actually was a changed man, he still performed the crime and thankfully suffered his punishment. Also, he claimed to be redeemed but would not even confess or apologize for his crimes.

Rikimaru_X · December 2005

I agree with dekron, even though he did try to get back on track, it's way past too late for him.

The one thing that distrubs me the most is a cute/hot female teachers getting laid with underage students and getting away with it when a guy doing that would be forever cursed and sent to jail...but that's another topic.

I know that one of my buddies is an ex-crypt (I don't know about his story behind the gang becuase he dose'nt share that infomation. All I know is he got shot 2 times.). He might be in jail (or out) ATM so I really got to call him to see if he knows this info....

sidebuster · December 2005

Is he in the Crypts or Crips? I am not making fun of you, just wondering if he maybe in an offshot of the crips. Because Tookie was in the Crips.

noname12345 · December 2005

Dekron are you worthy to redeem a man? Have you not done anything stupid in your life? Did someone redeem you? Anyways it says "alleged" victims. If all the rapists and and child molesters did advocate against their crime I would be damn happy. Should they get shorter sentences, no. Should Tookie get a life sentence, yes. Death is the easy way out and life will of course be harder. Plus he was HELPING PEOPLE! WHY PUT A STOP TO IT?

When I was 2 or 3 my Dad was dealing, was an alcoholic, and making lots of money. now im 17 and he has been a very successful counselor at a drug rehab for years now. His views on what he was doing changed and he evolved. Its pretty clear Tookie changed and what harm would he do for life in jail?

I think we have to send people a message that when you change positive things can happen. Otherwise they will always think that once you do something wrong your life is over and you will never be forgiven.

In the end im just against the death penalty all together. It is irrevocable and can be inflicted on the innocent. It has never been shown to deter crime more effectively than other punishments. I guess my issue is with the death penalty more than any of this stuff about Tookie.

Here are some facts on the death penalty http://www.aclu.org/capital/index.html

Rikimaru_X · December 2005

Originally posted by sidebuster
Is he in the Crypts or Crips? I am not making fun of you, just wondering if he maybe in an offshot of the crips. Because Tookie was in the Crips.

It was suposed to be Crypts.

crack_fox · December 2005

It's a little too easy to be sanctimonious and forgiving when a crime is committed against someone else. If some thug blows the head off one of your loved ones, then you can test the strength of your convictions. As it is, "Tookie" probably wouldn't have lived as long as he did had he remained on the street.

Finwe · December 2005

Originally posted by dekron

It wouldn't even matter if he actually was a changed man, he still performed the crime and thankfully suffered his punishment. Also, he claimed to be redeemed but would not even confess or apologize for his crimes.

I think a key point was made right here when you said that, about this monster. The fact that he wouldn't even repent for the abominations he did towards his fellow man is a spotlight on the mans soul.

Why should he find redemption, when he has no remorse about his evils?

Dekron · December 2005

Originally posted by AlexAmore

Dekron are you worthy to redeem a man? Have you not done anything stupid in your life? Did someone redeem you? Anyways it says "alleged" victims. If all the rapists and and child molesters did advocate against their crime I would be damn happy. Should they get shorter sentences, no. Should Tookie get a life sentence, yes. Death is the easy way out and life will of course be harder. Plus he was HELPING PEOPLE! WHY PUT A STOP TO IT?

I never said I have never done anything stupid, but have I murdered someone? No. There are laws in our country for a reason, and he was found guilty and sentenced to death 26 years ago. He should have been dead 1 year later. 26 years of appeals is ridiculous. As for only his alleged victims, why would he describe how his alleged victims died and how they sounded when they died when he was in court?

He did nothing for society. He wrote childrens books. Thats it. Who cares? Do you truely think that will make a difference? When those children get older and decide to join a game, they are not going to think back to Tookie's Bad ol Gang Books. Also, he claims that who he was then was not who he was in prison. Why then would he still go by Tookie, his gang name? His childrens books were just a cover for his continual involvement in the Crips.

Also, why should tax payers have to continue to pay for him to live? It costs $70 a day (in Oklahoma, in California it is probably doubled) to house a prisoner. That's nearly $30,000/yr that will now be saved because he received his punishment for his convicted crime.

The only redemption for death row should be for people who are found innocent. Tookie was not innocent. He was convicted of killing four people, but think of how many he wasn't convicted for. He was the co-founder of one of the largest gangs in the United States; can you truthfully say he did not kill anyone?

Now, for another example. Let's look at John Wayne Gasey (if you don't know who he is, check him out http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3987/gacy.html). Should he be given redemption? If he changed in prison, should he be given clemency?

noname12345 · December 2005

There's also lots of prisoners that could be rehabilitated but instead they get stuck in jail and learn to hate authority even more. Thats why a lot of criminals come right back in. I think we should be trying to rehab way more prisoners, and the people in death row should be given life sentence. Also maybe we should be spending tax money on improving neighborhoods and parenting because we all know children aren't born murderers. Children learn to hate from someone or something. We should also be spending way more tax on getting the poor up to par because they commit crime only because thats what they know, so lets give them an education and job hunting skills. But we are spending billions to go to war (I won't even get into that). So yes im going off the topic a little bit but most of it is relevant to why we have crime.

I still think death penalty is too harsh because we have and will continue to execute innocent people. Think about the innocent mothers and fathers who have been executed even though they were innocent. How traumatized do you think the son or daughter is? Do you think they will appreciate the government and authority even more now?

Yes that guy John did some nasty sh*t. Imagine life in solitary confinement, that would be like death only you are alive. You'll go crazy.

"FBI Report Reveals Murder Rate Rise in the South
According to the FBI's Preliminary Uniform Crime Report for 2002, the murder rate in the South increased by 2.1% while the murder rate in the Northeast decreased by almost 5%. The South accounts for 82% of all executions since 1976; the Northeast accounts for less than 1%. (FBI Preliminary Uniform Crime Report 2002, June 16, 2003)."

PBskater · December 2005

Originally posted by pyrofreak

Originally posted by AlexAmore
He has been trying his best to warn others about his way of life. He wrote a childrens book all about the horrific life of a gangster. So now they want to kill him? He's doing good, he's a living example of what this whole way of life leads to. I say let him speak out to the public about gang life and give him the resources needed to do that, but don't kill him. It has actually been documented that people do listen to him and changed.

They killed him around midnight, btw.

it was 12:35 if u wanna know the exact time

im glad hes freakin dead!!

noname12345 · December 2005

Okay but don't tell me society and his environment growing up had nothing to do with his violent history.

Its been documented that death penalty does not affect crime rate.

enzyme · December 2005

Originally posted by AlexAmore

Okay but don't tell me society and his environment growing up had nothing to do with his violent history.

I grew up in the sh*ttiest part of NYC with absolutely nothing, and you know what, I never killed anyone albeit I've had the urge on several occasions . You want money, a house, a better way of life? Get a job, be productive, stop blaming others for your lack of initiative.

you can scream society and environment all you want, but let's face it, if you want to eat crap all day, every day and say thank you can I have some more that's your perrogative, I refused to.

Complacency kills.

I can't wait to see how many people are going to continue to romanticize this...

Death penalty am I for or against? hell yes, if it acts as a deterrent and the evidence is way beyond the shadow of a doubt, fry em. Let that be a lesson to those who think that there's no other way.

1 murder could have possibly given him a double life sentence, 1 murder would be wow, I f-ed up and I am sorry but 4? FOUR! that means you didn't learn from your mistake, and you cannot control yourself, therefore you are still a menace to society, will never be a viable part of society, so you are a useless oxygen thief.

Vampir · December 2005

Originally posted by enzyme

Originally posted by AlexAmore

Okay but don't tell me society and his environment growing up had nothing to do with his violent history.

I grew up in the sh*ttiest part of NYC with absolutely nothing, and you know what, I never killed anyone albeit I've had the urge on several occasions . You want money, a house, a better way of life? Get a job, be productive, stop blaming others for your lack of initiative.

you can scream society and environment all you want, but let's face it, if you want to eat crap all day, every day and say thank you can I have some more that's your perrogative, I refused to.

Complacency kills.

I can't wait to see how many people are going to continue to romanticize this...

Death penalty am I for or against? hell yes, if it acts as a deterrent and the evidence is way beyond the shadow of a doubt, fry em. Let that be a lesson to those who think that there's no other way.

1 murder could have possibly given him a double life sentence, 1 murder would be wow, I f-ed up and I am sorry but 4? FOUR! that means you didn't learn from your mistake, and you cannot control yourself, therefore you are still a menace to society, will never be a viable part of society, so you are a useless oxygen thief.

ya but that being said even if he joined to increase his own material and other social mobility, then when he obtained that power he didnt help people in the situation he used to be.

this is why when someone says oh society is partially at fault, dont realize that these people are the cause of societies problems.

but this guy was dumb, he wasnt the smartest gangster ever.

i have to say he deserved the needle. no more no less.

noname12345 · December 2005

Originally posted by enzyme
Originally posted by AlexAmore
Okay but don't tell me society and his environment growing up had nothing to do with his violent history.
I grew up in the sh*ttiest part of NYC with absolutely nothing, and you know what, I never killed anyone albeit I've had the urge on several occasions . You want money, a house, a better way of life? Get a job, be productive, stop blaming others for your lack of initiative.
you can scream society and environment all you want, but let's face it, if you want to eat crap all day, every day and say thank you can I have some more that's your perrogative, I refused to.
Complacency kills.
I can't wait to see how many people are going to continue to romanticize this...
Death penalty am I for or against? hell yes, if it acts as a deterrent and the evidence is way beyond the shadow of a doubt, fry em. Let that be a lesson to those who think that there's no other way.
1 murder could have possibly given him a double life sentence, 1 murder would be wow, I f-ed up and I am sorry but 4? FOUR! that means you didn't learn from your mistake, and you cannot control yourself, therefore you are still a menace to society, will never be a viable part of society, so you are a useless oxygen thief.

*Sigh* environment can also mean who you had for parents, friends, bullies, ...and whether they were abusive...ect. My Dad grew up in the Bronx NY and he didn't kill anyone either. If Tookie had you for a parent maybe he would have grown up without so many issues, you seem to be an honest worker. Infact Tookie was viable in that he did help people from jail. He was nominated for the Nobel Peace prize for his work. He actually helped people and if he helped just ONE person from throwing there life away (maybe commiting murders themselves) I think he did a fine job.

noname12345 · December 2005

Originally posted by Vergeltung

this is why when someone says oh society is partially at fault, dont realize that these people are the cause of societies problems.

What do people like me do that affects you? I guess you think society is perfect?

enzyme · December 2005

Originally posted by AlexAmore

Originally posted by enzyme

Originally posted by AlexAmore
Okay but don't tell me society and his environment growing up had nothing to do with his violent history.

I grew up in the sh*ttiest part of NYC with absolutely nothing, and you know what, I never killed anyone albeit I've had the urge on several occasions . You want money, a house, a better way of life? Get a job, be productive, stop blaming others for your lack of initiative.
you can scream society and environment all you want, but let's face it, if you want to eat crap all day, every day and say thank you can I have some more that's your perrogative, I refused to.
Complacency kills.
I can't wait to see how many people are going to continue to romanticize this...
Death penalty am I for or against? hell yes, if it acts as a deterrent and the evidence is way beyond the shadow of a doubt, fry em. Let that be a lesson to those who think that there's no other way.
1 murder could have possibly given him a double life sentence, 1 murder would be wow, I f-ed up and I am sorry but 4? FOUR! that means you didn't learn from your mistake, and you cannot control yourself, therefore you are still a menace to society, will never be a viable part of society, so you are a useless oxygen thief.

*Infact Tookie was viable in that he did help people from jail.

too late.

ZivaDomini · December 2005

Dekron. Not sure if someone's mentioned this on here, or if you've looked into it yourself, but Tookie was his real name. His name IS Stanley Tookie Williams. I know what you're thinking..."What kind of retarded person names their kid Tookie?" But they did. In fact, his kid's name is something Little Tookie Williams. I'm not sure if Little is actually his name, but if you click on the link provided by Riki (I think it's Riki) in either the second or third post, you can read about that.

Just wanted to clear that up since it seemed to bother you that he was still going by his name. There's a lot of people who go by middle names, my father for one, along with one of my oldest friends.

And to clarify, I'm not trying to support the idea of having released him. I would be furious if they had. I'm glad he received the punishment he was given. Yes I believe life is worse than death, but if death is what you get, than that's what you get.

I also believe he wrote his books for the sole purpose of getting off. Either getting out of the death penalty, or Hell. One of the two. I also believe that you can't get out of trouble that way. If you do bad, don't deliberately do good for the sake of "balance." You have to do good because you genuinly want to do good, because you care enough about your fellow man to do good. You can't do it because someone told you if you didn't you're in trouble. Do it, because you care. I don't really believe he cared. I don't believe anyone like him would ever truly, honestly care.

Unknown · December 2005

I have never believed his supposed repentance. He has never apologized or even admited his crimes, only proclaiming sorrow for his role in the beginings of the Crips. He has never assisted law enforcement in dealing with that gang, he has never admitted to the murders he got the death penalty for. So he tells people not to join gangs and wrote children's books. He was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. He has still not accepted his guilt in these crimes.

A truly penitent man would accept the crimes and verdicts, stop fighting the system, and accept their own execution. Murder is not something you can be forgiven for in this life. Once you've done it, it's over. There is no going back, there is no returning what you've taken. You can only do your best until your death comes and accept that death as justice. He did not. He fought until the bitter end, never accepting the real weight of what he's done.

I'm glad he's dead. If he will not serve as a living penitent then he will serve as an example. His accursed Crips have spread across the nation and taken or ruined thousands of lives, not to mention the lives taken by his own hand. The legions of activists and celebrities are eager to label anyone who supports the execution as racists. I want all murderers to die horribly, I don't care what race they are. White people join gangs, too.

Darktania · December 2005

Some of you say that he should be spared simply because he wrote some children's books. Well did you know that Adolph Hitler was both a painter and a poet? And did you know that Saddam Hussein is both an author and has written a couple musicals? Why dont we consider those monsters "Redeemed"?

Supporters of Tookie claim that his books saved children from getting into a life of crime. Well gee thats awful funny since Tookie's own son is in prison for committing violent crimes. I think they need to add another chapter to Tookie's self help books. They need to add Tookie's execution as an example of what happens to people that commit murder. That'll keep kids out of a life of crime.

Can you imagine if Tookie did this in Singapore? They dont make you wait 24 years for your execution. And coincidently Singapore has virtually NO crime. Just more proof that Capital Punishment works.

Vampir · December 2005

Originally posted by AlexAmore

Originally posted by Vergeltung

this is why when someone says oh society is partially at fault, dont realize that these people are the cause of societies problems.

What do people like me do that affects you? I guess you think society is perfect?

no far from perfect but we are that far partially because of the criminal element, but i was trying to make the point that gangs in the ghettoes are part of what keep the conditions there crappy. by lowering real estate value, encouraging buisnesses not to start buisnesses in that area, and overall just the damage done from crime.

but society isnt perfect but its main problem is selfishness its next biggest problem is ineptitude

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